Endurance running hunting ancestros 2 Ma = nonsense
Marc Verhaegen
that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
their water bottles during hunting. ..."
Lee Olsen
Carl Zimmer, Science Novemer 19, 2004
Faster Than A Hyena?
"It may come as a surprise to hear that humans excel in running.
Obviously, a leopard can leave us in the dust in a short sprint. But
over longer distances leopards and most other mammals flag. "Most
mammals can't sustain a gallop over 10 to 15 minutes," says Lieberman.
Humans, on the other hand, can continue running for hours while using
relatively little energy. "Humans are phenomenal endurance runners,
in terms of speed, cost, and distance," says Lieberman. You can
actually outrun a pony easily." And yet, he points out, "no other
primates out there endurance run."
claudi...@sbcglobal.net
> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg¹s data contradicts the statement above
> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
The people that propose HE hunting/scanvenging are careful to keep
their thinking vague so that it can't be disputed. This is exactly
what you do, Marc.
The only difference is your vague absurdity is in a littoral habitat.
While their vague absurdity is in treeless habitat.
Niether of you will provide details. Niether of you are willing to
discuss your vague models. All either of you do is propadandize, and
this mostly involves strawmanning your opponent.
Lee Olsen
>
> Niether of you will provide details.
Says the provider of no details.....
1 Nobody lived on the savanna until the advent of jeeps and guns.
2 Lions evolved from saber-tooth cats.
3 Apiths never ventured more than 50/100 yds away from a tree.
4 Climate change is not happening presently.
5 Agriculture probably stretches back hundreds
of thousand if not millions of years.
6 Genetic drift is a pseudo-scientific notion.
7 Spears are useless against hyena and lions.
8 ..then what purpose do the stone weapons (spears, bow and
arrow) serve that show up in the fossil record starting about 2.5
mya?
9. Then you should stop;pissing into it.
10 Speak for yourself. I see just fine at night.
11. Uh, er. These artifacts don't come with notes attached to them
that
indicate how they were actually used.
12. Why we see stasis in tool advancement up until a few thousand
years ago.
Marc Verhaegen
Op 28-02-2008 17:10, in artikel
8f530609-c40c-42ad...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<pale...@hotmail.com> schreef:
> http://tinyurl.com/2n8y2n
> Carl Zimmer, Science Novemer 19, 2004
> Faster Than A Hyena?
> "It may come as a surprise to hear that humans excel in running.
Yes, of course:
Bramble and Lieberman (2004), in a much-discussed review article in Nature,
cite a number of derived Homo features they claim to be adaptations for more
efficient endurance running in arid, open habitats. However, while some of
these supposedly Ścursorial adaptationsą appear first in the fossil record
in H. habilis, others appear first in H. erectus, and others still in H.
sapiens, suggesting a much more complex story than proposed by Bramble and
Lieberman. Their conclusions are reached without systematic comparisons with
other animals (including endurance runners) and with general comparisons
restricted to fossil hominids and Pan. Since convergent traits are strong
indicators of evolution in similar environments (Bender 1999), a systematic
comparison with a broad range of animals with a variety of locomotor
strategies would have been more informative.
In addition, discussion of possible locomotion styles is restricted to
walking and running, with no consideration at all given to activities such
as wading, swimming or underwater foraging, yet humans are regular waders
and more accomplished swimmers and divers than other primates. Most of the
listąs Śadaptationsą for walking could just as easily be explained by
wading. One of the frequent Śexplanationsą in the list is łstress
reduction˛, a reference to the vertical posture of humans with the weight
resting on two legs. But this says nothing about endurance running, with
standing, wading, walking or short distance running all using a similar
posture, and therefore all requiring stress reduction. Other Śexplanationsą
include łcounter rotation˛, łthermoregulation˛ and łstabilization˛, but no
comparative data to corroborate these interpretations are provided. In other
words, their Śexplanationsą are ad hoc suppositions, applied to one example
(human ancestors) without any consideration as to whether these supposed
adaptations are seen in other animals, which means their Śexplanationsą are
statistically invalid (n=1). Long legs, and possibly shortened forearms,
could be seen as running adaptations, but these are just as typical of
wading and swimming species compared with runners (Hildebrand 1974: 584,
Bender 1999).
In a waterside scenario, wading and swimming would be preadaptative to the
humanlike Śverticalą locomotion that Bramble and Lieberman believe to be a
direct adaptation to endurance running. In our view, frequent terrestrial
locomotion, whether for walking or for (relatively slow) running, was more
recent (H. sapiens) and could not be derived directly from an ancestral
locomotion in forests, whether on the ground or in the branches, because in
that case a more baboon-like locomotion would be expected (the Śbaboon
paradoxą).
Most of Bramble and Liebermanąs Śadaptationsą are not what we would expect
in a cursorial (running) animal. For example, their list includes łenlarged
posterior and anterior semicircular canals˛, but there are no comparisons
with, for instance, giraffes (heads high above the ground), gibbons (fast
and versatile locomotion), kangaroos (cursorial bipeds), or swimming or
diving species. It is conceivable in fact that the frequent change of
posture seen when diving for seafood (descending and ascending) required a
different labyrinth structure, and that the H. erectus labyrinth was adapted
to terrestrial walking and running as well as to wading, swimming and diving
locomotions.
There is no indication that an łexpanded venous circulation of neurocranium˛
had anything to do with thermoregulation, but there is long-standing
evidence of expanded venous networks in diving species (Slijper 1936).
More balanced heads and short snouts are not seen in cursorial species,
whether bi- or quadruped, and low shoulders are compatible with wading and
diving.
What Bramble and Lieberman refer to as łnarrow body form˛, łnarrow thorax˛
and łnarrow pelvis˛ is not clear to us: compared to most primates, humans
have a relatively very broad thorax and pelvis (laterolaterally), and this
was even more so in the case of australopithecines. In our opinion, the
combination of Śflaredą iliac blades and very long and relatively horizontal
femoral necks as seen in H. erectus indicates well-developed ad- and
abduction, which is obviously not an adaptation for running, but would not
be unexpected and indeed would be advantageous for a species that had to
regularly wade, tread water, swim or climb. In H. sapiens the pelvis
(bi-iliac diameter) did become narrower and the femoral necks shorter and
more vertical, and we agree with Bramble and Lieberman that this could be
related to more frequent terrestrial locomotion.
Plantar arches, enlarged tubera calcanei, close-packed calcaneo-cuboid
joints and short toes are not seen in cursorials, whether bi- or quadruped,
to the contrary: running species are typically unguli- or digiti-, not
plantigrade and typically have elongated toes.
In conclusion, there is no evidence that any of the features described by
Bramble and Lieberman (2004) are typical either of savannah dwellers or
frequently running animals, whether slow or fast. Until the features are
considered in the context of swimming and wading as well as terrestrial
movement, their interpretations should be considered with extreme caution.
As it is, there is no obvious reason why any of the features cited could not
have been of advantage in a littoral environment. We do not deny that humans
today are adapted to terrestrial locomotion, but in our opinion the peculiar
human anatomy is not directly derivable from a typical primate ancestor who
moved from closed to more open, arid habitats.
At least two conspicuous anatomical features of H. erectus are notably not
included in the list of features cited by Bramble and Lieberman (2004).
1) H. erectus typically has a more robust, and therefore heavier, skeleton
than all other fossil and extant primates, including H. sapiens and the
other apes. One of its defining characteristics is the shape and size of the
femoral bone, which shows cortex thickening and densening (pachyostosis) and
a narrow medullar cavity (medullary stenosis). The cranial bones, especially
the posterior part (the occiput), are also notably thicker than in other
primates including H. sapiens. Unusually heavy bones would be a disadvantage
for a species relying on endurance running, and are not seen in running
mammals such as dogs or horses, whereas for a species collecting sessile
food from the waterąs edge, including underwater foraging, they could have
been a significant advantage. Human divers such as the Ama of Korea
frequently use weights to help them descend (Hong and Rahn 1967).
Slow-diving mammals for sessile foods typically have medullary stenosis and
pachyostosis to a much higher degree than in H. erectus (walruses, dugongs
and fossil littoral species such as Kolponomos, Odobenocetops and some
Thalassocnus species), while fast-diving mammals for mobile prey have
light-weight bones (dolphins and sealions).
2) H. erectus had less basicranial flexion than H. sapiens, meaning that
the eyes would have been more naturally oriented towards the sky if they
were standing with an upright posture (remembering that we do not know for
certain which posture H. erectus may have preferred when on dry land),
rather than directed more towards the horizon, as is the case when H.
sapiens stands with an upright posture. This would be a disadvantage for a
species relying on endurance running because, among other things, more
energy would be needed to look at where the feet were making contact with
the ground. In a diving position, as well as in a more procumbent body
position while wading for food, for example, the less flexed cranial base
would have resulted in the eyes being more naturally oriented in the
direction the individual was moving (i.e., in the case of swimming and
diving, head first through the water). We are not aware of any models which
suggest early Homo ran with a bent hip posture, but we do note that human
sprinters generally run with the body leaning forward.
Within many contemporary Homo sapiens populations there are individuals who
are capable of long distance running, but compared to typical savannah
species, humans are slow and inefficient (Figure 4). Moreover, recent
research suggests that endurance training in athletes sometimes causes
cardial arrhythmias and sudden death (Ector et al. 2007). Even Bramble and
Lieberman (2004) admit that łhumans are mediocre runners in several
respects˛ and łrunning is more costly for humans than for most other
mammals˛. And since H. erectus generally had heavier bones than H sapiens,
longer femoral necks and shorter tibiae, it must have been even less
efficient in running than extant H. sapiens.
Marc Verhaegen
Op 28-02-2008 17:22, in artikel
d5667301-c3f4-4985...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<pale...@hotmail.com> schreef:
Lee Olsen
> Bramble and Lieberman (2004),
Thanks for pointing out their running work.
Also, FYI
http://tinyurl.com/2n8y2n
Carl Zimmer Science 2004
"It may come as a surprise to hear that humans excel in running.
Obviously, a leopard can leave us in the dust in a short sprint. But
over longer distances leopards and most other mammals flag. "Most
mammals can't sustain a gallop over 10 to 15 minutes," says Lieberman.
Humans, on the otherhand, can continue running for hours while using
relatively little energy. "Humans are phenomanenal endurance runners,
in terms of speed, cost, and distance," says Lieberman. You can
actually outrun a pony easily." And yet, he points out, "no other
primates ou there endurance run."
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/tarafeat.htm
"The public was amazed at the prowess of the runners and even more so
when the papers reported
that there were better ones at home. One of them was called "The Tiger
of the Sierra"; he had run for
three consecutive days that same year, near Norogachic, Chihuahua,
covering a distance of 300 kilometers,
or 186 miles, of mountainous country."
"Specifically, longer, more linear bodies are better adapted
for heat loss in dry open environments, where evaporative
heat loss from sweating is very effective. All modern-day tall
"elongated"
African (e.g., Nilotics) are restricted to such environments."
Alan Walker and Richard Leakey editors.
1993 The Nariokotome Homo Erectus Skeleton.
Harvard University Press, Cambridge
"Two indepandent lines of research converged on the
conclusion that early Homo was an efficient runner, the first human
species to be so Leakey (1994:55)."
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1206/1206_samplings.html
Mr. Karoha runs down another ill-equipped-for-savanna kudu.
"The earliest Eurasians preferentially occupied
grasslands and open scrub- and wood-lands, as in
East Africa. Homo ergaster/erectus in East Africa after 1.7 Ma is
associated with hot and dry conditions, and open
grasslands; its post-cranial anatomy, with its long
limbs was geared to long-distance walking across
open ground, and to heat dispersal through upright
posture (Dennell 2003:442)."
http://tinyurl.com/7u5wo
" In fact, he walked and ran with better mechanics than we do today.
The mechanics of his femur, femur head, pelvis, and lower back are
superior to those of today. We have had to sacrifice some of that
efficiency of walking and running to give birth to children with
larger brains."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17584912/
"Just because humans have long legs doesn't make us less aggressive.
Rather, the longer legs are a product of humans' specialization for
distance running."
"He showed that even the slowest human runners could, with even a
slight head start, outrun lions, cheetahs, leopards, hyenas, and wild
dogs, not by speed, but by out distancing them (Donald Mitchell)."
QUARRY CLOSING IN ON THE MISSING LINK by Boaz, Noel T. 1993 (ISBN:
0029045010)
"From our spring-loaded ligaments to our muscular behinds to our
ability to sweat,
the human body took the ideal shape of a long-distance runner starting
some 2 million years ago,
the researchers say. The long, lean build helped us scavenge widely
scattered kills
and could also have been an advantage when hunting down prey over long
distances."
"We're lousy sprinters, but we're really great long-distance
runners,"
said Daniel Lieberman, an anthropologist at Harvard University.
"A long-distance runner has beaten a leading endurance racehorse over
a distance of 80 kilometres in the United Arab Emirates."
Lee Olsen
No coconuts, no crayfish, no algae.
Butchering
"Archaeological sites created as a result of of these activities
display several important
characteristics:
They are found near water points where Hazda never camp."
Camps
"The common presence of large
predators, especially in the late dry season,
makes them dangerous places, especially at
night, even for hunters in thorn-walled
blinds. Women and children rarely visit
these locations after dark. Among the
Hadza, base camps are almost always established
in other settings, 10-20 minutes
walk from permanent water, generally
outside riparian habitats, especially in the
dry season."
J. F. O'Connell et al.
Male strategies and Plio-Pleistocene
archaeology
Journal of Human Evolution (2002) 43, 831-872
Rich Travsky
Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out. What
did you expect?
Marc Verhaegen
Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
I didn't write this...
ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
Lee Olsen
Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> I didn't write this...
Right, you wrote spritual imagination.
Rich Travsky
>
> Op 03-03-2008 05:17, in artikel 47CB7BEA...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
>
> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> I didn't write this...
Yes, you did. Here's the google link:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.anthropology.paleo/msg/0c6a399e2bf40b6f?dmode=source
> >> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg零 data contradicts the statement above
> >> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
> >> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
> >> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
> >> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
> >> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
> >> Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
> >> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
> >> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
> >> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
> >> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
> >> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
> >> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
>
> > Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out.
>
> ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
> elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
> to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
ER is new? LOL
Diving to 80 m is new, Marc.
Marc Verhaegen
> ER is new? LOL
Skeletal gracilisation (sapiens vs He) = faster.
Archaic Homo had heavy bones, broad pelvises etc. = not suited for ER,
whatever some SFs say.
> Diving to 80 m is new
No, my boy, think a little bit:
- ER today = food (kudu)
- 80 m diving today = no food
SFs are stupid stupid stupid.
Lee Olsen
> Savanna Fantast:
>
> > ER is new? LOL
>
> Skeletal gracilisation (sapiens vs He) = faster.
> Archaic Homo had heavy bones,
Heavy lower bones found in fast runners, doughboy.
>broad pelvises etc. = not suited for ER,
> whatever some SFs say.
Says brainless loon who doesn't know the difference between a mountain
beaver
and a capybara.
>
> > Diving to 80 m is new
>
> No, my boy, think a little bit:
> - ER today = food (kudu)
> - 80 m diving today = no food
You mean no coconuts, no algae, no crayfish, and no AAT.
ERs are right on:
"The Turkana boy tells us that early H. erectus, besides being a tall
biped,
had arms and legs proportioned like a modern human's. For his height,
his
arms were not as long as those of Lucy, Lucy's Child or so far as we
know,
any other prior hominid. He lacked the apish details that, in earlier
bipeds,
suggest occasional tree climbing. The legs and hip bones of Homo
erectus
were buttressed by tremendous thickness and bulges, which denotes a
body geared toward endurance walking and running. An exclusive pact
had
been made with the terrestrial realm, and the boy's legs were
equipped to
cover ground in strides protracted in both length and hours."
Richard Potts from Humanity's Descent
W.-J. Wang and R. H. Crompton 2004
The role of load-carrying in the evolution of modern body
proportions
J. Anat. 204 pp417-430
"Our hypothesis
that there is a direct relationship between the acquisition
of modern postcranial proportions and increased
ranging/transport distances at around 1.8-1.5 Ma appears
to be borne out, although other selective factors, such
as thermoregulatory influences (see Ruff, 1991; Wheeler,
1992) and adaptations for throwing (see Dunsworth
et al. 2003), are likely to have played an important
(although probably interdependent) role."
Holger Preuschoft
Mechanisms for the acquisition of habitual bipedality:
are there biomechanical reasons for the acquisition of
upright bipedal posture?
J. Anat. 204 pp363-384
"Once bipedality has been acquired, development of typical human
morphology can readily be explained as adaptations for energy saving
over long distances. A paper in this volume
shows that load-carrying ability was enhanced from australopithecines
to Homo ergaster
(early African H. erectus),supporting an earlier proposition that load-
carrying was an essential factor in human evolution."
http://tinyurl.com/2n8y2n
Carl Zimmer, Science Novemer 19, 2004
"It may come as a surprise to hear that humans excel in running.
Obviously, a leopard can leave us in the dust in a short sprint. But
over longer distances leopards and most other mammals flag. "Most
mammals can't sustain a gallop over 10 to 15 minutes," says Lieberman.
Humans, on the other hand, can continue running for hours while using
relatively little energy. "Humans are phenomenal endurance runners,
in terms of speed, cost, and distance," says Lieberman. You can
actually outrun a pony easily." And yet, he points out, "no other
primates out there endurance
Marc Verhaegen
> Heavy lower bones found in fast runners, doughboy.
:-D
Stupid stupid stupid SFs.
Ever heard of the occiput??
Lee Olsen
> Savanna Fool:
> :-D
Says the brainless loon who thinks mountain beavers are semi-aquatic.
>
Stupid stupid stupid wet apes.
>
> Ever heard of the occiput??
Carl Zimmer Science 2004
"It may come as a surprise to hear that humans excel in running.
Obviously, a leopard can leave us in the dust in a short sprint. But
over longer distances leopards and most other mammals flag. "Most
mammals can't sustain a gallop over 10 to 15 minutes," says Lieberman.
Humans, on the otherhand, can continue running for hours while using
relatively little energy. "Humans are phenomanenal endurance runners,
in terms of speed, cost, and distance," says Lieberman. You can
actually outrun a pony easily." And yet, he points out, "no other
primates out there endurance run."
Rich Travsky
>
> Op 03-03-2008 05:17, in artikel 47CB7BEA...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
>
> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> I didn't write this...
Yes, you did. Don't lie.
Here's the google link
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.anthropology.paleo/msg/0c6a399e2bf40b6f?dmode=source
which I posted once already for you.
> >> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg零 data contradicts the statement above
> >> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
> >> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
> >> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
> >> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
> >> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
> >> Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
> >> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
> >> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
> >> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
> >> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
> >> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
> >> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
>
> > Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out.
>
> ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
> elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
> to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
Millions of people do endurance running, Marc.
On the other hand, almost nobody dives to 80m...
Marc Verhaegen
Op 15-03-2008 07:18, in artikel 47DB6A40...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>>
>> Op 03-03-2008 05:17, in artikel 47CB7BEA...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
>> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
>>
>>> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
>>
>> I didn't write this...
> Yes, you did. Don't lie.
> Here's the google link
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.anthropology.paleo/msg/0c6a399e2bf40b6f?dmo
> de=source
> which I posted once already for you.
Liar: this, my little boy, is a *quote*. I hope you know what that is?? (you
never know with savanna fantasts...)
>>>> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg零 data contradicts the statement above
>>>> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
>>>> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
>>>> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
>>>> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
>>>> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
>>>> Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
>>>> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
>>>> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
>>>> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
>>>> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
>>>> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
>>>> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
>>> Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out.
>> ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
>> elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
>> to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
> Millions of people do endurance running, Marc.
A few adult men (not all men, no children, no women) of a few remote
populations run after kudus.
> On the other hand, almost nobody dives to 80m...
Of course. What had you thought?? Why should we?? We're no seals or whales,
my boy.
FYI:
AAT = waterside past.
Hardy 18960 "Was man more aquatic in the past?"
The obvious answer, except to savanna fools like you, is:
"Of course. What had you thought??"
Rich Travsky
> Op 15-03-2008 07:18, in artikel 47DB6A40...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> >> Op 03-03-2008 05:17, in artikel 47CB7BEA...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> >> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
> >>
> >>> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> >>
> >> I didn't write this...
>
> > Yes, you did. Don't lie.
> > Here's the google link
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.anthropology.paleo/msg/0c6a399e2bf40b6f?dmo
> > de=source
> > which I posted once already for you.
>
> Liar: this, my little boy, is a *quote*. I hope you know what that is?? (you
> never know with savanna fantasts...)
A quote which *you* posted, Marc, for your "argument". I hope you know how that
works.
you never know with aaters...
> >>>> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg零 data contradicts the statement above
> >>>> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
> >>>> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
> >>>> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
> >>>> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
> >>>> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
> >>>> Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
> >>>> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
> >>>> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
> >>>> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
> >>>> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
> >>>> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
> >>>> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
>
> >>> Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out.
>
> >> ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
> >> elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
> >> to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
>
> > Millions of people do endurance running, Marc.
>
> A few adult men (not all men, no children, no women) of a few remote
> populations run after kudus.
Modern lifestyles, Marc. But how do you think they got that way? Lots of running.
> > On the other hand, almost nobody dives to 80m...
>
> Of course. What had you thought?? Why should we?? We're no seals or whales,
Then why do you mention sweating in seals?
> my boy.
>
Marc Verhaegen
& "dive": SFs are stupid stupid stupid.
Op 27-03-2008 23:08, in artikel 47EC1AE4...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
Lee Olsen
> SFs don't now the difference between "quote" & "write", nor between "sweat"
> & "dive": SFs are stupid stupid stupid.
The wetloon is an expert on diving like he is an expert on mountain
beavers.
TREE 2002 Page 213-14:
"... capybaras Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris and
mountain-beavers Aplodontia rufa [24]. Both these
semi-aquatic rodents feed mainly on riverside herbs,
grasses and the bark of young trees."
ROFL
Rich Travsky
>
> Op 15-03-2008 07:18, in artikel 47DB6A40...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
>
> > Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> >>
> >> Op 03-03-2008 05:17, in artikel 47CB7BEA...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
> >> Travsky <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> schreef:
> >>
> >>> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> >>
> >> I didn't write this...
>
> > Yes, you did. Don't lie.
> > Here's the google link
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.anthropology.paleo/msg/0c6a399e2bf40b6f?dmo
> > de=source
> > which I posted once already for you.
>
> Liar: this, my little boy, is a *quote*. I hope you know what that is?? (you
> never know with savanna fantasts...)
It's *your* post. You are responsible for all material you add.
> >>>> "... First, nothing in Liebenberg零 data contradicts the statement above
> >>>> that persistence hunting with ER is extremely uncommon, even among people
> >>>> employing sophisticated tracking skills in the most ideal ecological
> >>>> environment for the behavior. Over the course of 20 years, only 2 of the ER
> >>>> hunts observed by Liebenberg were spontaneous. 8 others were prompted by
> >>>> Liebenberg so that they could be filmed for television documentaries.
> >>>> Second, based on Liebenberg零 observations, the success of the technique is
> >>>> equivocal. While the 2 spontaneous ER hunts were successful, it must be
> >>>> noted that they were undertaken by the same 4 individual hunters; perhaps
> >>>> these 4 men were uncommonly good at this particular rare technique or were
> >>>> lucky twice. Further, only 3 of the 8 prompted ER hunts were successful,
> >>>> even though those hunts were commenced from a vehicle and hunters refilled
> >>>> their water bottles during hunting. ..."
>
> >>> Civilization has made inroads, Marc. Old lifestyles are dying out.
>
> >> ER is a new lifestyle, my boy. Of a few members (no children, no women, no
> >> elderly) of some remote populations displaced by more successful popluations
> >> to regions farther away from rivers & coasts. What did you expect?
>
> > Millions of people do endurance running, Marc.
>
> A few adult men (not all men, no children, no women) of a few remote
> populations run after kudus.
Modern lifestyles, Marc.
> > On the other hand, almost nobody dives to 80m...
>
> Of course. What had you thought?? Why should we?? We're no seals or whales,
> my boy.
A keeper. Thanks!
Rich Travsky
>
> SFs don't now the difference between "quote" & "write", nor between "sweat"
> & "dive": SFs are stupid stupid stupid.
If you post it Marc then you're determining the content. Do you understand? ;)
Marc Verhaegen
Op 30-03-2008 07:19, in artikel 47EF22E3...@hotmMOVEail.com, Rich
Lee Olsen
Rich Travsky
>
> Savanna Fool too stupid to know what a quote is:
Jongen, too stupid to know it's your post and you determine what goes into it?