Exhaust fumes in aircraft cabin?
Tony Heatwole
in front of us) I noticed a strong smell of exhaust fumes in the
cabin. I've noticed this from time to time before, but the long
wait made me think about it:
1. Where do the fumes come from? The engines on my plane or
the planes in front of us? If the cabin air is being re-
circulated from bleed air from the engines, we shouldn't
be getting any of our own exhaust.
2. While they were only slightly unpleasant, how bad are the
fumes in a case like this. In particular, how much carbon
monoxide is there likely to be in it?
Any ideas?
Tony Heatwole
Gaithersburg, MD
heat...@clark.net
Robert Dorsett
>Earlier this week while waiting to take off at DFW (with 20 planes
>in front of us) I noticed a strong smell of exhaust fumes in the
>cabin. I've noticed this from time to time before, but the long
>wait made me think about it:
>
> 1. Where do the fumes come from? The engines on my plane or
> the planes in front of us? If the cabin air is being re-
> circulated from bleed air from the engines, we shouldn't
> be getting any of our own exhaust.
Right; they were coming from the planes in front of you.
> 2. While they were only slightly unpleasant, how bad are the
> fumes in a case like this. In particular, how much carbon
> monoxide is there likely to be in it?
I'd be less concerned about the carbon monoxide levels than the carcinogens
being introduced into the cabin: kerosene's highly toxic. Probably not a
problem for the average tourist, but how about the flight/cabin crew,
frequent flyer, etc?
And a random tidbit of data: WHEN an airplane's own exhaust can enter the
cabin. On the 727, it's customary to shut down the #3 engine before
starting the APU after landing. Reason: the APU exhaust is located in the
right wing root, expels a great deal of smoke when started, and said smoke
gets ingested by the #3 engine. This sudden introduction of smoke into the
cabin is reported to alarm passengers, for some reason. :-)
--
Robert Dorsett
r...@netcom.com
TriStar500
Dorsett) writes:
>Right; they were coming from the planes in front of you.
The fumes could also be from two other sources.
1. A failure of an engine bearing-seal allowing oil to enter the compressor
section of the engine.
2. An overheat of one of the air conditioning packs. Not likely on an MD-80,
but pretty common on a 727. This is generally accompanied by oily smoke.
Robert Dorsett
>In article <airliners...@ohare.Chicago.COM> Josep...@sat.mot.com (Joseph Hall) writes:
>
>>Deicing mixture also has a "nice" odor, kind of like kerosine mixed
>>with perfume. I forget what the circumstances with the original poster
>>were, but sometimes sitting on the ground or the runway you can get
>>a nice cabin full of fumes if the air intakes were left on during
>>deicing.
>
>I thought airlines turned off engines during deicing as a general rule.
When it actually FROZE in Austin earlier this year, I happened to be at the
airport seeing a Continental 727 flight engineer off. Most of the airplanes
were grounded, with 2-3 inches of ice on the wings. As we were waiting,
an American Airlines 727 parked next to the gate began to start up, then shut
down. The captain came out, climbed on top of the catering truck, was
elevated to approximately the top of the airplane, climbed on top of the
airplane, and stuck his upper body in the #2 engine. 60 seconds later, the
de-icing cranes poured glycol into there for about a minute. Three minutes
after that, they started the #2 engine. The spray out the exhaust was *very*
impressive. :-)
I would imagine the cabin would have been aromatic after that. :-)
--
Robert Dorsett
r...@netcom.com
dal...@legal.com
IR>I'd be less concerned about the carbon monoxide levels than the carcinogens
IR>being introduced into the cabin: kerosene's highly toxic. Probably not a
IR>problem for the average tourist, but how about the flight/cabin crew,
IR>frequent flyer, etc?
I'm glad to see this comment. As it's become so politically correct to
all but run in fear from the slightest hint of cigarette smoke, is
anyone aware of any comparisons, in terms of parts per million, between
second hand cigarette smoke circulated in a cabin and other contaminents
that are also found in these cabins?
-- Dave Alden
Richard Sun
>Deicing mixture also has a "nice" odor, kind of like kerosine mixed
>with perfume. I forget what the circumstances with the original poster
>were, but sometimes sitting on the ground or the runway you can get
>a nice cabin full of fumes if the air intakes were left on during
>deicing.
I thought airlines turned off engines during deicing as a general rule.
In any case, why would glycol smell like kerosene at all?
An interesting-smelling deicing fluid would be the 25 bottles of vodka
reportedly used to deice a scheduled U.S. carrier's flight in Russia,
when there was no deicing fluid at the airport (see AW&ST, 9 May 94).
Sounds like Delta got a little creative, or does any other U.S. carrier
fly scheduled into Russia?
Karl Swartz
A few airports have installed deicing devices right at the entrance to
the runways, so they do the job when it's needed rather than doing it
at the gate and hoping it lasts. In this case, at least, I'd expect
the engines to still be on.
--
Karl Swartz |INet k...@ohare.chicago.com
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|Snail 2144 Sand Hill Rd., Menlo Park CA 94025, USA
Send sci.aeronautics.airliners submissions to airl...@chicago.com
Joseph Hall
Deicing mixture also has a "nice" odor, kind of like kerosine mixed
with perfume. I forget what the circumstances with the original poster
were, but sometimes sitting on the ground or the runway you can get
a nice cabin full of fumes if the air intakes were left on during
deicing.
--
Joseph Nathan Hall | Joseph's Law of Interface Design: Never give your users
Software Architect | a choice between the easy way and the right way.
Gorca Systems Inc. | jos...@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (home)
(on assignment) | (602) 732-2549 (work) Joseph_Ha...@email.mot.com
Pete Coe
was in the back of a 737-400, and I was most surprised that when the crew
started the engines, the number two did only what I can describe as a
backfire.
I may have imagined a bang, but I certainly saw a very large puff of smoke
come out the back. In many years of sitting behind the wing, I cannot recall
seeing this before. As we made a safe flight after this I think I can assume
that it was perfectly safe. Was this a malfunction, or do CFM-56's have a
habit of doing this kind of thing?
And no, I didn't smell anything.
--
-- Pete Coe
-- Rational Software Corporation
-- Object-Oriented Products
TriStar500
(Pete Coe) writes:
>Was this a malfunction, or do CFM-56's have a
>habit of doing this kind of thing?
It's not that uncommon in any high-bypass engine. It's not really
smoke but unburned fuel. Sometimes you even get these really cool
three-foot long flames! Very impressive at night.
This fog is really apparent in cold weather. The older RB-211s are
especially good at 'killing mosquitos' as it tries to start on a cold
day.
As an aside, the RB-211 is a very slow starting engine.