Chargepoint at BMW

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Gabriel Rothblatt

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Oct 8, 2015, 7:30:08 PM10/8/15
to SCEVDrivers General
I stopped by to charge up for a couple hours at the BMW dealership and had a less than satisfactory experience. 

I'd say half or better of the times I've driven by or through with the intent of charging, the two spots have been taken by non-electric vehicles. Today an X-5 was literally sideways across both spots.

I walked in and announced I'd like to charge but can't safely reach the meter around the crooked car. 

A salesman asked the manager to move the car, who gladly said he would, and did, but then proceeded to lecture me about how the charger is only for BMWs. 

I informed him that it's broadcasting as a free and open charging station, that others have recommended the spot as a being hospitable to EVdrivers. 

The manager continued to grumble his discontent about free-riders and non-bmw drivers. I can understand his concerns, but as a manager he should know better than to make them mine. 

I perceived the feeling that had I not been a young black male, his tone would have been different. I'm wondering if anyone else has found BMW to be unwelcoming? And if so should we express our concerns and try to educate the manager on how Corporate Responsibility helps business. 


George Jumper

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Oct 8, 2015, 7:35:54 PM10/8/15
to Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
If they only want BMWs to park there, then they should sell more BMW plug ins. I am thinking about buying an I3 so they better be kind when I show up wanting to charge my focus. Allowing any name brand car to use their stations is the cheapest most effective way they can market their EVS to an EV driver. Unless they are just complying and are really not interested in selling EVS.

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From:"Gabriel Rothblatt" <gabrielr...@gmail.com>
Date:Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:30 PM
Subject:[scevdriversgeneral] Chargepoint at BMW

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George Jumper

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Oct 8, 2015, 7:40:01 PM10/8/15
to Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
 Driving my ffe, I get turned away by non ford dealers, but I have been turned away by many more Ford dealers. 


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From:"Gabriel Rothblatt" <gabrielr...@gmail.com>
Date:Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:30 PM
Subject:[scevdriversgeneral] Chargepoint at BMW

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 10, 2015, 3:10:24 AM10/10/15
to Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
Did you speak to a salesman named Dennis? He's always been very welcoming...

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 12, 2015, 9:22:00 AM10/12/15
to Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
Can you share what dealership this is occurring at?
On Oct 10, 2015, at 6:10 PM, Jim Ratte wrote:

I'm going to relate some disturbing actions by a local EV driver to the group.  I don't know the offending parties name, as it wasn't given to me.
 
First, Oct 6th was one year of driving my 2015 Leaf on Brevard roads.  Here's my stats:
 
- 21,800 miles
- Used 5736 kilowatts
- Electricity cost of $689.00
- Maintenance:  Two tire rotations at $12.00 each.  For $12.00 its not worth me pulling out my own jacks and crawling under the car.
 
I took my Leaf in today for its 'annual battery inspection'.  I got to speak with the Leaf tech whom spent a good half hour with me.  Seemed as though he cared for what he did and the technology as much I care with my clients and the service / product I give to them.  Very refreshing.
 
While there, the tech told me that the management is considering pulling the L2 chargers out.  Not because they don't care, they allow 'anyone' to use their chargers.  But because of the 'greed' of certain drivers - I'm not referring to non-nissan vehicles here.  The major offender drives his car to this dealership, plugs it in, AND LEAVES FOR DAYS AT A TIME.  Management has asked that the offender comes back the following day to unplug and move the car, so that the dealership can use its own plug-ins for diagnostics or demo drives of their own cars for sale.  The offender simply tells management that its 'NOT HIS PROBLEM'.  On one occasion a vendor couldn't access the dealership delivery door to drop off a transmission because this idiot parked in front of the service door and left town!
 
They have tried to reason with this idiot several times, even having his car towed off property.  I certainly hope this offender is NOT part of this group, but if they are - you better wise up before we lose these charging stations.  Just because you live in a apartment and your landlord won't allow you to charge 'at home', does not make this the problem of the dealership.
 
Again, the dealership has NO ISSUES with anyone (of any make) charging at their facility (FOR FREE), but have the courtesy to move your vehicle and allow the dealership to use their own chargers (that THEY PAID FOR), as well as other vehicles that need it.  It isn't your own to do as you please with!
 
 

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 12, 2015, 1:52:23 PM10/12/15
to Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
I can only suggest that they continue to tow the offending drivers' vehicles off if they overstay their welcome. After all, it is their business to control who has access to their lot. If someone isn't welcome it is on them to be pro active in the operation of their business.
On Oct 12, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Jim Ratte wrote:

Pat Fischer in Titusville.  As you know there aren't many chargers in the north end of the county, so losing these would be a hit for those that need them.  I haven't needed them yet, and only used it once for a quick 15 min charge to get me home after forgetting to charge at home the night before I went up there.
 
Another sales person told me they typically have 3-5 cars a day using the chargers, so good to know they are being utilized.

George Jumper

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Oct 12, 2015, 5:11:00 PM10/12/15
to Kenneth Toole, Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
Don't believe what the dealer is saying. Oil runs deep in Nissans veins. Now that gas is cheap, that franchise is pulling the plug. They just need an excuse. Any excuse will do. Nobody in our group would do that. Not true.


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From:"Kenneth Toole" <kto...@digital.net>
Date:Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 9:22 AM

George Jumper

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Oct 12, 2015, 5:20:50 PM10/12/15
to Kenneth Toole, Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General

This will be the excuse of every dealer that has charges. I see this in our future. They will eventually call us hippies and vagrants,  etc. Next they will say that they our tired of picking up our trash. Nobody is that thoughtless to leave there car parked that long. The last thing I would do is charge at a dealer.

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From:"Kenneth Toole" <kto...@digital.net>
Date:Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:52 PM

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 14, 2015, 8:25:45 AM10/14/15
to George Jumper, Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
Are you sure this offending driver is in our group? They may be independent and unaffiliated with any group.....

Tom Saxton

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Oct 14, 2015, 11:05:29 AM10/14/15
to Kenneth Toole, George Jumper, Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
One solution to this problem is to put up signage limiting charge time to 4 hours and enforcing it. Towing off property isn't a strong enough message, impound repeat offenders. Offer to valet vehicles that have a legitimate need to stay longer. Make it easy to be a good citizen and expensive to ignore the rules. One jerk should not be allowed to wreck an important service to customers and the EV community.

    Tom

Tom Saxton
We Drive Electric. You Can Too.


Kenneth Toole

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Oct 15, 2015, 11:50:18 AM10/15/15
to Tom Saxton, George Jumper, Jim Ratte, Gabriel Rothblatt, SCEVDrivers General
Most tow companies impound the offending vehicle until the fee is paid. If repeated episodes of finding a ride to the tow yard and eating several hundred dollars in fees doesn't get your attention nothing will.....

Gabriel Rothblatt

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Oct 15, 2015, 5:41:55 PM10/15/15
to Kenneth Toole, Tom Saxton, George Jumper, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
The manager at the BMW dealership did mention people leaving cars overnight. I thought he was exaggerating at the time, but this may have been the same person. Being near the airport, it's not uncommon for people to try and avoid parking fees, and I don't believe the airport has installed any stations.

 As a class of people, evdrivers, will be judged by the extremes. One rude, insensitive person can ruin something for all of us. I think it would benefit the group to have direct relationships with dealers, share with them the true importance and value of EV stations, and work with them to develop best practices around EV charging. From my conversation at BMW, it was clear he had no clue about the services and customization available as a chargepoint host. 

Thank you, 

Gabriel Rothblatt
Honest Gabe

George Jumper

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Oct 15, 2015, 6:11:42 PM10/15/15
to Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
EV etiquette  will be vary important as more EVS get on the road. I know the basics but wonder does anyone in the EV or charging sector  provide drivers with suggested etiquette info? I know leaving your car overnight is definitely bad. But is everything just common sense? 

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From:"Gabriel Rothblatt" <gabrielr...@gmail.com>
Date:Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:41 PM
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/scevdriversgeneral/CAAQ8kg9XV0DHvpbY0iE7AuLpvtFwGj7CO0S_Eov-7nF-rGKijQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Ken Sherman

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Oct 15, 2015, 6:30:43 PM10/15/15
to George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General

Tom Saxton

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Oct 15, 2015, 8:51:05 PM10/15/15
to toswalt, Ken Sherman, George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
Although I'm a BEV driver, I'm not a fan of the "BEVs outrank PHEVs" attitude expressed on Ford's card. I'd say it's nice to yield to the person with the greater need, but I wouldn't assume that's always the BEV driver.

It's funny that Ford put that on there given they they sell far more the C-MAX Energi and Fusion Energi than the Focus Electric. It's like they want their customers to get charger blocked by Leaf drivers.

I am a big fan of this sign which expresses the idea that charging spots are not for parking. Just like a loading zone, you're allowed to stop your car there only while executing a specific allowed action. Once you're done, you need to move. You can also tack on a specific time limit. There's a more complete discussion of proper signage for charging stations on page 27 of this document. Plug In America was involved in creating the sign and the model ordinance and guidance documents for the Puget Sound Regional Council in 2010.

   Tom

On 10/15/15, 5:31 PM, "toswalt" <WDm...@aol.com> wrote:

I like this reference. At my work there are two charging stations and two plugin drivers arrive around 6 am and sit there all day. Basically they use it as guaranteed parking, since they only need 3 hours max to charge. Maybe this reference will provide the "hint" they need!
Terry

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a...@lococo.org

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Oct 15, 2015, 10:14:29 PM10/15/15
to Ken Sherman, George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General

I use this card with my cell number. I use a paper clip to indicate unplug time or unplug any time.

 

http://www.evchargernews.com/chargeprotocolcard.pdf

 

Cheers,
Al Lococo
Secretary CFEVA & SUNEVA
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


From: Ken Sherman
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:30 PM
To: George Jumper
Cc: Gabriel Rothblatt;Kenneth Toole;Tom Saxton;Jim Ratte;SCEVDrivers General
Subject: Re: [scevdriversgeneral] Chargepoint at BMW

 

 

On Oct 15, 2015, at 6:11 PM, 'George Jumper' via SCEVDrivers General wrote:



EV etiquette  will be vary important as more EVS get on the road. I know the basics but wonder does anyone in the EV or charging sector  provide drivers with suggested etiquette info? I know leaving your car overnight is definitely bad. But is everything just common sense? 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Gabriel Rothblatt" <gabrielr...@gmail.com>
Date:Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 5:41 PM
Subject:Re: [scevdriversgeneral] Chargepoint at BMW

The manager at the BMW dealership did mention people leaving cars overnight. I thought he was exaggerating at the time, but this may have been the same person. Being near the airport, it's not uncommon for people to try and avoid parking fees, and I don't believe the airport has installed any stations.

 

 As a class of people, evdrivers, will be judged by the extremes. One rude, insensitive person can ruin something for all of us. I think it would benefit the group to have direct relationships with dealers, share with them the true importance and value of EV stations, and work with them to develop best practices around EV charging. From my conversation at BMW, it was clear he had no clue about the services and customization available as a chargepoint host. 


Thank you, 

 

Gabriel Rothblatt

Honest Gabe

 

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Kenneth Toole <kto...@digital.net> wrote:

Most tow companies impound the offending vehicle until the fee is paid. If repeated episodes of finding a ride to the tow yard and eating several hundred dollars in fees doesn't get your attention nothing will.....

On Oct 14, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Tom Saxton wrote:

 

One solution to this problem is to put up signage limiting charge time to 4 hours and enforcing it. Towing off property isn't a strong enough message, impound repeat offenders. Offer to valet vehicles that have a legitimate need to stay longer. Make it easy to be a good citizen and expensive to ignore the rules. One jerk should not be allowed to wreck an important service to customers and the EV community.

 

    Tom

 

Tom Saxton

We Drive Electric. You Can Too.

 

 

On 10/14/15, 5:25 AM, "Kenneth Toole" <kto...@digital.net> wrote:

 

Are you sure this offending driver is in our group? They may be independent and unaffiliated with any group.....

On Oct 12, 2015, at 5:10 PM, George Jumper wrote:



Don't believe what the dealer is saying. Oil runs deep in Nissans veins. Now that gas is cheap, that franchise is pulling the plug. They just need an excuse. Any excuse will do. Nobody in our group would do that. Not true.

toswalt

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Oct 16, 2015, 8:45:23 AM10/16/15
to Ken Sherman, George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
I like this reference. At my work there are two charging stations and two plugin drivers arrive around 6 am and sit there all day. Basically they use it as guaranteed parking, since they only need 3 hours max to charge. Maybe this reference will provide the "hint" they need!
Terry

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Ken Sherman <kcshe...@mac.com> wrote:

toswalt

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Oct 16, 2015, 8:45:24 AM10/16/15
to Tom Saxton, Ken Sherman, George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Kenneth Toole, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
Good refs, Tom. Thanks. I'll forward them to out parking committee. 
Terry

Sent from my iPhone

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 17, 2015, 7:39:15 PM10/17/15
to Gabriel Rothblatt, Tom Saxton, George Jumper, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
If a vehicle is left on charge without authorization towing should be automatic. One person at the dealership should be responsible for the traffic in and out of the station, thus eliminating any confusion as to who is entitled to what. If a dealership cannot control a thing as simple as traffic flow through a charging station then they have no business being in business.

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 17, 2015, 7:46:28 PM10/17/15
to Ken Sherman, George Jumper, Gabriel Rothblatt, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
TOWING SHOULD BE MANDATORY FOR ALL ICE CARS PARKING AT A CHARGER!!!!!

George Jumper

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Oct 17, 2015, 9:48:20 PM10/17/15
to Kenneth Toole, Ken Sherman, Gabriel Rothblatt, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
The manager at Kohl's said they would not tow anyone because icing a charger is not illegal in brevard county. Is it illegal anywhere in Brevard yet? Should be. I would pay to have a permit of some sort just to have a law on the books.


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From:"Kenneth Toole" <kto...@digital.net>
Date:Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 7:46 PM

Jordan Thompson

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Oct 17, 2015, 11:00:56 PM10/17/15
to George Jumper, Kenneth Toole, Ken Sherman, Gabriel Rothblatt, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General

ICIing is illegal in Florida.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/scevdriversgeneral/1445132899.1321.YahooMailAndroidMobile%40web162506.mail.bf1.yahoo.com.

Joshua Pritt

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Oct 17, 2015, 11:48:04 PM10/17/15
to SCEVDrivers General
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0366/Sections/0366.94.html

(3)(a) It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electrical recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging an electric vehicle.
(b) If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18.

Now what about EVs that park in a charging spot and don't plug in?  Or stay plugged in long after they are fully charged?  That should just come down to common sense - move your car if you don't need the charge.



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/scevdriversgeneral/CAJjEXbLXAFNVFYwz18sbU6xocbmYmzXtJDbYREw3PPkohvzkFQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Kenneth Toole

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Oct 19, 2015, 4:25:43 PM10/19/15
to George Jumper, Ken Sherman, Gabriel Rothblatt, Tom Saxton, Jim Ratte, SCEVDrivers General
Chap. 366.94.3(a 366.94 Electric vehicle charging stations.—
(1) The provision of electric vehicle charging to the public by a nonutility is not the retail sale of electricity for the purposes of this chapter. The rates, terms, and conditions of electric vehicle charging services by a nonutility are not subject to regulation under this chapter. This section does not affect the ability of individuals, businesses, or governmental entities to acquire, install, or use an electric vehicle charger for their own vehicles.
(2) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall adopt rules to provide definitions, methods of sale, labeling requirements, and price-posting requirements for electric vehicle charging stations to allow for consistency for consumers and the industry.
(3)(a) It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electrical recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging an electric vehicle.
(b) If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18.
History.—s. 11, ch. 2012-117; s. 72, ch. 2014-17.
Yes it is not legal to ICE a charger. It is against the above item 3)a. The proceeding is on the books & is unenforced by virtually everyone in the state. This is why people think it is okay to ICE a charging station. As for Kohl's, they will invent any excuse not to have to deal with parking disputes. I've been through this with them already. They want to stay out of any disputes & not make any enemies.
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