The questions begin... The Banana Stand needs running rigging. :-)

[Adam Yuret]

Hola,

I'm already started splicing Antal rings for a new backstay adjuster. Thinking I'll do the same for a vang maybe use em or get a pair of Antal snatch blocks for twingers but I wanted to start a thread to see if yall had pictures of your running rigging configurations for me to use as reference?

I realize many of my NW SCs are likely rocking the Round The County Race but since I'm working it out I thought I'd ask.

There is no reinforced part of my boom for adding a bail but there are some bales on the bottom track, I suspect for the 2 reefs my cruising PO had on the main. I am thinking the more forward piece which is just about 40% the length from the mast. I've made a soft shackle which I can pair up with another to attach a twinger solution to my toerail, but I have no idea where. :-)

Things are coming along nicely though, thanks to Alex and Wild Rumpus The Banana Stand has better than original sails, and a complete set as well as a standing rig. :-) 


Cheers, 

Adam Yuret

Mr. Manager
The Banana Stand
Santa Cruz 27 #104

"There's always money in the banana stand." -George Bluth Sr.

[John S]

Adam,

Sounds like you are moving right along with the banana. I'm not sure (and too lazy to go digging through the previous posts) why you want/need to add a bail to the boom. All the SC27 booms I've seen have a bail on the bottom about 75% of the way aft for the sheet and another much closer to the mast for the vang. They also have all had 3 sheaves at the aft end of the boom: one on centerline for an outhaul, and two on either side for reefs. In any case, get her in the water and go sailing and congrats on the new boat.

John

[Adam Yuret]

Thanks for the reply John, I just assumed the wee bale on the bottom of the boom mightn't be enough for the loads but I guess if it's good enough for the reefs it's good enough for the vang, of course it's more than 25% aft but maybe that'll just give a better angle? ;-)

Took The Banana Stand out in no wind last weekend and it was amazing. I mean glassy water and I was sailing circles around the salty leadmines that were out for a drift, sailed out to a Valiant 40, around em and back with no perceptible wind. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLKESowOVk&feature=share

Cheers, 

Adam Yuret

Mr. Manager
The Banana Stand
Santa Cruz 27 #104

"There's always money in the banana stand." -George Bluth Sr.

[John S]

Adam,

Here's a pic (the only one I could find) that shows the mainsheet and vang bails. You may need to zoom in to full size to see the bails. They are plenty strong as I've beat the devil out of my boat over the past 10 years and they have never been an issue. A lot of this is due to the lightness of the boats; they just don't load up that much. Anyway, you can see the sheet and vang attachments in the pic. If you have the stock boom and it's in good shape then you should be able to just use them and not worry about it. As you discovered they do move well in light air and you are going to have to get used to passing a lot of larger boats.

John

[Adam Yuret]

Awesome, 

That's where my fwd bale is, Vang placement problem solved. :-) 

Remaining on my checklist now is spinnaker running rigging layout. I can get started on my vang tackle.. is that a 4:1 purchase you have going there, I guess if it doesn't load up much I don't need crazy big purchase. :-) 

Thanks again for the great pic, John.

Cheers, 

Adam Yuret

Mr. Manager
The Banana Stand
Santa Cruz 27 #104

"There's always money in the banana stand." -George Bluth Sr.

[stephanie schwenk]

Eased vang more than ever in heavy spin work and were labeled early bloomers for having kite up first on every reaching leg this weekend, lost rudder anyway. Clean break 4"into blade. Early investigations appear there is a welded joint... If original lasted over 30 years... Now what do we do,where can i get a SC 27 warranty form to forward to my local dealer?

--

_/)__Stephanie

[John S]

Warranty? Local dealer?? What are you smoking up there???

It sounds like you have a SS rudder post (I've heard rumors about these) since I can't imagine how anything could be welded to the high density fiberglass post on my boat. I'm not sure where you would go to find a builder of a replacement but if it was me in your predicament I'd likely start by contacting Ron Moore. Hmm, maybe now is a good time for the class to approve the new elliptical rudder so we can bring the class all teh way into the late 80's!

[stephanie schwenk]

Does anybody mind if we put  a custom eliptical carbon rudder on Wild Rumpus and continue to sail one design regattas?

--

_/)__Stephanie

[Adam Yuret]

Not at all,

I think the solution is you put custom elliptical carbon rudders on the entire PNW fleet. :-) I suspect the class will approve that no problem. ;-)

Cheers, 

Adam Yuret

Mr. Manager
The Banana Stand
Santa Cruz 27 #104

"There's always money in the banana stand." -George Bluth Sr.

[Diana Schuyler]

An elipitical carbon rudder is a constitutional issue and receiving permission on this forum is a recipe for disaster.

Sorry but my two cents for the National Class that I have been a part of for over 30 years.

Rob has spoken to Alex and suggested he put his proposal for change into two amendments:  open transom and sail size.  Rob also suggested Alex speak with Dave Hodges.  So far, no amendments from Alex.

Step---it looks like you have another amendment to propose.

If you plan on attending Nationals in 2012 and 2013, then come class legal or follow procedure and let all National members be involved in decision making.  This forum does not reach all class members and does not make constitutional changes.   

  

De Schuyler

[mike farrell]

     As we know there has been a lot of progress in design since Bill Lee designed the SC 27. Dee is correct that the class constitution will need to be changed to allow a non conforming rudder. It will be complicated to sail boats as a one design  fleet if this change goes into effect.  Some will change over and many may not.  In heavy air, off the wind, the class rudder has shortcomings that a deeper elipitical rudder will most likely solve.  However it is simply not a case to deduct 3 seconds a mile for the changed rudder then this is not then one design racing.  There is also the issue of cost and will all new rudders be built by the same builder to the same specs?

                      My Best,  Mike Farrell,  Yellow Jack

From: Diana Schuyler <desch...@gmail.com>
To: sc2...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Barry Whittall <barryw...@att.net>; Joe Hagen <hey...@cox.net>; Rob Schuyler <robsc...@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: The questions begin... The Banana Stand needs running rigging. :-)

[stephanie schwenk]

Hey all I was just being silly about the rudder, I will replace with an exact copy. There is an outfit called Elkhorn Composites that has fixed bunches of Moore 24 rudders. For the record it was Andy not Steph just trying to make sure we're all still awake out in internet land.....On a serious note since Steph is always driving I should make her fix it!

--

_/)__Stephanie

[John S]

What, no fancy new elliptical rudder? And I was going to offer to test it for you since I am so much closer to Elkhorn Composites :)

[Garman, David M]

NORN has such a rudder, i believe it was done by Malhcom.  It has not proven to be that much faster, but there are other changes that might be more important to speed in certain wind ranges that would mask the improvement. Dont discount the shape of the sc27 rudder. It has certain characteristics that are very nice.  You would not have the little bit of area that is so important to move the stern in times it is needed, with a full eliptical rudder you will not be able to horse the stern around, there is no surface to push the water.  just saying....

 

 

---

From: sc2...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sc2...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John S
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:58 AM
To: sc2...@googlegroups.com

[Andy Schwenk]

Just to be clear The WILd Rumpus will not be the test vessel nor has any intrest in any new rudder design, we trust Mr. Lee knew what he was doing....

[Diana Schuyler]

WOW!  just teasing????  This rudder dialogue has brought the whole constitutional compliance issue to the forefront.  As the Santa Cruz local fleet captain and member of National Executive Board, I urge you all to read our constitution on SC27.org.  If you would like any changes, then start the process.  Please do not come to the Nationals not class legal and expect to race.

In Whidbey Island Race Week, the NOR was very clear in stating that any changes must be requested in writing to the National Class 30 days prior to start of event.  Five boats come to this event from down south.  As fleet captain, I received a flurry of emails discussing anchors and batteries, etc after I arrived in Washington.  My SC boats were not on this email.  Craig Smith, our National Class President, posted an amendment to the SI's that morning.   Craig and I figured out a way to keep the event moving forward.  This last minute dock flurry was inexcusable and should never have happened.   Clear communication is a must to continue to grow our fleet!  I can only take what I read at face value so there you have my reaction and advice.  The National Class has always and will continue to work for race participation and fair racing. 

Sincerely,

De Schuyler    

[Stephanie Schwenk]

TO BE CLEAR, ANDY DID NOT EVEN MENTION AN ELLIPTICAL RUDDER AND WE DO NOT HAVE ONE AND ARE NOT PLANNING TO GET ONE.  WE DID NOT INTENTIONALLY DROP OUR RUDDER INTO THE OCEAN IN NOVEMBER TO START ANY TROUBLE WITH ANYONE.

THIS WAS HIS POST:

[Diana Schuyler]

Stephanie

Here is his post that started my reaction.  Let's be clear and concise.  I do not want to start a pissing contest here.

De

[Adam Yuret]

So I think I'm going to go ahead and cascade 3 14.10 Antal low friction rings and use that for my vang. I feel way motivated since I seem to have found crew for this Saturday and now feel obligated to provide that crew with a functioning boat. ;-)

I may have to leverage a ring to be the pole downhaul block and make me some soft shackles in the next 2 days ;-)

Cheers, 

Adam Yuret

Mr. Manager
The Banana Stand
Santa Cruz 27 #104

"There's always money in the banana stand." -George Bluth Sr.

[Stephanie Schwenk]

AND TO BE CLEAR:

The discussion of which items would be required for Nationals last year was started in September 2010.  By this time last year, we were scheduling a meeting to come up with a plan for how to get everyone to agree (South).  By July, every effort was undermined, and I personally spent an entire year haggling over the NOR, SI's and required items, just to do what happened at Huntington Lake.  We had to stop at the dock at Huntington Lake 2009 Nationals to drop offl our anchor that year because we didn't know until we were actually ON the course that it wasn't required.  We hauled our small outboard all the way from Washington and it was destroyed on the trailer just to find out when we got there that it was NOT required.  Let's not throw stones...

 

So I take offense.  And will restate that we did not start the rudder jokes.  And we are not thrilled to be spending $2G or whatever it's going to cost to get a new one.  Any reference to us showing up non-compliant is not fair, not nice, and not who we are as a groupl

 

Sincerely,

Stephanie

[Stephanie Schwenk]

it was a humorous response to this post:

 

Warranty? Local dealer?? What are you smoking up there???

It sounds like you have a SS rudder post (I've heard rumors about these) since I can't imagine how anything could be welded to the high density fiberglass post on my boat. I'm not sure where you would go to find a builder of a replacement but if it was me in your predicament I'd likely start by contacting Ron Moore. Hmm, maybe now is a good time for the class to approve the new elliptical rudder so we can bring the class all teh way into the late 80's!

 

which was also humor.

 

neither of which was my post.

[Eric Collins]

As long as you're the first to show up, last to leave, and trailer under cover of darkness, who needs to know about your carbon elliptical rudder?  The carbon fractional rig and asym off a sprit may be a bit harder to hide...

My boat also has a steel shaft, and I was considering building a new rudder as a winter project before I heard your story.  Now I'm giving this project serious thought.

Curious to hear what you end up doing, and if fab costs would be reduced if two were ordered.

Also interested in peoples' thoughts on the existing rudder geometry.  I don't have a local OD fleet, I race exclusively PHRF.  If I built a new rudder, I'd consider a new shape and keep the old rudder for the next owner / OD events.  But from Andy, Dave and Steph's posts, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of untapped potential there.

[Warren Pelz]

Sorry to hear about your rudder. I have an extra rudder, if you'd like it, it's yours.
It's my understanding that the early boats had stainless rudder shafts. They'd buy 20' lengths of pipe (not tubing and there's a big difference) and get 4.5 shafts per length. So, every 5th rudder or so, had a welded shaft. Later they switched to Lunastrand, a pultruded fiberglass rod. I'm not 100% sure they used pipe instead of tubing but having checked with a micrometer I believe it's pipe.
Craig at Elkhorn is great but there's also Larry Tuttle of Water Rat blades. Arguably one of the best in the business....Makes carbon fiber 505s,  A cats and a lot of the best foils out there......spendy though.
Warren

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:43 PM, stephanie schwenk <schwe...@gmail.com> wrote: