please, add steps to SBM

[francois43]

Hi,

thanks for the SBM. I hope I have the latest SBM when I see version 8338 when I click on

http://www.salsabeatmachine.org/machines/01411299-b150-48dc-a902-a9ca97cc4858/Timbales-Bell-On-2

I would like seeing dancing steps in the SBM, much like the shoes dancing on the "new timing video" on

http://www.salsabeatmachine.org/blog/2011/01/the-key-to-dancing-salsa-on-2/

I try to find [dancing steps, basic counts and clave beats] in one picture, but the WEB is sooo confused over all this. For instance:

I do not like presentations where the clave beats are represented as music notes (which have duration), because the basic counts then are implicit and must be understood from the duration of the notes. That is not good visualisation. 

Also, the word 'break' seems to mean the out-ward step itself and sometimes the moment of change of direction.

 See e.g. 

http://www.salsanewyork.com/ourdancemusic.htm 

where we find the quote:

"2nd beat of the measure -  The man steps farther back with his right foot, then changes direction, starting to lean forward with his body = "breaks forward on 2".  

And as this quote (and the text around it) shows clearly, even the phrase "dancing on two" sometimes means dancing steps are on  on 1-2-3;5-6-7; whereas mostly "dancing on two" means steps are on 2-3-4;6-7-8.

Add to that the different clave rithms that exist, also people who do not understand well, teachers who dance well but cannot explain, and the whole thing is a communicative mess on the Web with no end in view.

Your SBM may be a U-turn in communicating what is meant for each style and each (new) invention in style. It may also be used to explain misunderstandings on the Web.

I tried to find counts-steps-clave in one go on the Web. I was unable find it, even not on WIKIpedia, which is amazing.

thanks,

francois43

[Uri Shaked]

Hi Francois,

First of all, thank you for writing,
and sorry for the delay in the
response!

You indeed have the 8338 is indeed
the latest version of the SBM.

Your suggestion of adding dancing
steps to the SBM is interesting,
though it might take some time
until we implement it.

As for the dancing steps, basic counts
and clave beats in one picture - perhaps
you could draw some sketch so we will
get a better idea of what you mean exactly?
Then we can further develop this into some
useful resource for learners.

You might be interested in checking
out a new project we are working on,
it's called Visual Salsa, it lets you see
dancing steps, both On-1 on On-2
(New York style) synchronized with
popular Salsa songs.

You can get an impression of this
new project here:
http://www.salsabeatmachine.org/blog/2012/08/free-salsa-musicality-intro-lesson/

Scroll down a little and you will
find two songs:
1. Acid by Ray Barreto
2. Otra Oportunidad by Jimmy Bosch

Play the youtube video and you will
see the shoes start moving to the
rhythm. Then you can try the "On-2"
and "Clave" views, or test yourself
by tapping the rhythm.

Your feedback on this one will be
very valuable, as we are still developing
it and we want it to communicate the
rhythm as clearly as possible to salsa
dance students. So go ahead and share
your thoughts :-)

All the best,
Uri

[f.j.h.dols]

Hi Uri,

thanks for your respons.
The Visual Salsa Project is indeed the right direction.

Let me comment. When comparing things, one should vary maximally 1 aspect, and let 'all other things being equal'.
In the video+steps, this rule is not adhered to, because when changing from 'on 1' to 'on 2',
not only are the steps now on 2 (which is the aspect that we choose to vary),
but also the direction has been changed; the first step (on 2) now goes backwards (to the left of the screen) 
whereas in the 'on 1' the first step goes forward (to the right of the sceen).

I have seen on several Websites that teachers indeed tell the leader to start forward when dancing on 1,
but to start backward when starting on 2. Personally, I can see no logical nor musical reason for that. Do you know?
Let's stick to good common sense and have the shoes always start the same direction IN THE PROJECT at least.

A good thing is to see the count-numbers in the upper-right corner. I was missing that in the Visualisation SBM.

The test-yourself button does not also test 'on 2', though that is most needed!

In the Acid song my test was ok.
In the Otra song, my test was bad. I often checked on 5, was regularly wrong on the 1, UNTIL I heard the clave halfway the song, so that I could anticipate on the two-part of the clave, therefore being in time for the 1.
Somehow, songs do different things with people, it seems from this.

It would be interesting to have people to do the test on-line, and you guys recording the score,
just to evaluate which songs are good for practicing and may-be other interesting insights...?

I will send another mail about [counts-clave-steps] for the SBM.

thanks so far,

Francois.



Op 27-10-2012 19:50, Uri Shaked schreef:

[Uri Shaked]

Hi Francois,

First of all, sorry for the late reply -
I have been abroad but did not forget
about you...

Many thanks for your feedback! 

I totally understand your point about the on 2

steps and their direction, though unfortunately

this is the standard way to dance NY style,
so users will be even more confused if we
teach them something that is opposite
from the standard.

You are right about no musical reason for
starting backward when dancing on-2,
perhaps it's just arbitrary (as much as
leaders start left forward when dancing
on-1), yet this is how everyone does it...

Good point about testing "On-2", definitely
going to add it soon!

Also, recording the tests and learning from
how people interact with the song makes
a lot of sense, so this is definitely something
I am going to look into... Thanks for pointing
me at that direction!

Finally, looking to hear more about the
"counts-clave-steps" for the SBM, feel
free to write to me when you have time.

Have a great day, and thanks
again for all the feedback!

Uri

[Uri Shaked]

Hi Francois,

Quick update for you - your suggestion of
recording the score of people doing the test
online is now live, that was a brilliant idea!

As soon as we have enough data we can
start getting insights which songs are easier
and which one people struggle with.

Would you like to get a free account as
a gift from us so you can enjoy the song
collection as well?

Let me know and you will get it!

Cheers,
Uri

[f.j.h.dols]

Yri,

great to see you are working on ideas! yes, I would like to get a free account, it makes me smile.

François

Op 10-12-2012 9:51, Uri Shaked schreef:

[Uri Shaked]

Sure François, you welcome!

You will get your log in information
in a private email, your feedback
will be greatly appreciated :-)

All the best,
Uri