The Conventionists show their true agenda

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Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560)

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Nov 3, 2008, 11:41:05 AM11/3/08
to Zukile Swana, NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman, Siphiwe Mgandela, Lungisa, Ayongezwa (Mr) (s20629995), Diphapang Mofokeng, Ndimba, Xolani X, loyiso phantshwa, nyoka, Luthando, z.mat...@ru.ac.za, Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Lonwabo Msutwana, 5032...@nmmu.ac.za, 5502...@nmmu.ac.za, ecs...@union.org.za, g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, javas_m...@yahoo.com, kgos...@gmail.com, mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com, rhode...@googlegroups.com, rhodes...@googlegroups.com, run...@webmail.co.za, Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749), Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034), Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791), sasc...@googlegroups.com, sasc...@googlegroups.com, t_mas...@yahoo.com, wam...@gmail.com, zimkhith...@yahoo.com, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Ayanda Ndinise, Blue Diamond, Brenda, Bubbles, Cyril Ramaphosa, Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349), Eddie Levert, Faxi, Fayol, George Kahn, jacob B.W Yeats mbutana, Joe Sample, Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400), Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa, kholosa siphe loni, Lerato, Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569), lu...@webmail.co.za, Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989), Maphuti Mannya, mkateko lybon mdlhuli, Mmabotswa, Mthetho Blom, musa glen ndzovela, Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921), mzoxolo budaza, Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051), Ntsiko's, Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807), phetelo-castro zenzile, Poloko Motsoane, Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990), Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981), Saki Macozoma, SASCO BEC, Simphiwe Kanityi, Siphiwe Mgandela, Sol Platjie, Sonwabo Ngqontsha, syanda hypolite ngcobo, thapelo tselapedi, themig...@webmail.co.za, tinyiko mashabane, TSHEPO WICLIFT, wamuwi mbao, Winnie Mandela, xolani nyali, Yonela, Zama, Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998), zikhona nweba, Charles Doyisa (Retail), Lungelo Swana
Dear Young Intelligentsia
 
Finally the much talked about "convention" convened and the excitement that was generated about it has finally come down and we got to see really what the whole fuss was about.
 
I have always understood South Africans to be passionate beings and anything that is new and different was always going to send the country into a rapture of excitement. But has the excitement of the convention lasted?
 
One has observed with interest the level of debate that was generated through emails this past few weeks, at times these have generated into mud slinging and name calling but the underlying cause being the recent political development. Media reports have suggested this weekend's activities as a "historic breakthrough" in South African politics, some have claimed that this new emerging group would give the ANC a run for their money, Mbhazima even went up to as far as suggesting that they will win next year's elections, but do we really have reason to believe this?
 
My view has always been that this "breakaway group" was driven by nothing else but bitterness and hunger for power. Some comrades through this emails have suggested otherwise, but it seems i have been vindicated following this weekend. Not only was the declaration equivalent to the letter written by terror to the ANC but we saw how animated Helen Zille can be amongst desiring black fanatics. Kenneth Meshoe Spoke about a "Shikota Iceberg" and a sinking titanic. Lekota rambled on about the need to defend the constitution and the rule of law, Mluleki George continued to look as funny as ever, especially without his glases on, Madisha kept on staring at the roof and wondered what it would have been like had he just took the 500 000 to the bank rather than drive it around on the boot of his car. "comrades" continued to sing "revolutionary songs" in a jubilant mood and others rejoiced at the feeling of being in Sandton, even if its the first and the last time.
 
Getting back to the point, the ANC says "We want to increase the fight against crime and look at the possibility of increasing salaries of public servants" They continue to say "Education will be a priority for the next five years, we will look at ensuring that 60% of schools become no fee schools and we will progressively introduce free education up until undergraduate level" the president of the ANC is unambigous when he proclaims further that "rural development and agrarian reform should be fast tracked in order to ensure that we reduce poverty and create employment to the marginalised community of our country, this will be done amongst others, through public works programs" he further and confidently pronounces that no other movement can claim to achieve what we have already achieved nor can any party attempt to close the record that the ANC remains proud of.
 
On the other hand, our angry compatriots vow to "defend the constitution" and ensure that "the rule of law is applied to all equally" and that we should "directly elect the president, premier, mayor and councillor", what a manifesto!, they continue to promise that they will ensure that this country is not run by "disrespectful youngsters" i would presume they mean the ANC Youth League.
 
Looking at the two scenarios one wonders as to what exactly is the agenda of our conventionists the South African Democratic Alliance or sorry Congress. Who threatens the constitution? was the rule of law applied fairly when the rights of the ANC President were violated and did Terror get directly elected as the Premier of Free State or Mbhazima as Gauteng Premier?, how was the behavior of Nqaba Banga during his tenure as a student leader and youth leader or should i say is it better to have Nqaba who has clearly forgotten the term "democratic Centralism" to lead young people rather than Mr Malema who presumably did not pass matric "good enough".
 
I leave it to our intelligentsia to respond. As i close let me leave you with something that our beloved Youth League President comrade Julius Malema said "trusting people like Terror and shilowa is like giving a teenager your car and a bottle of whiskey...!, well there you have it!
 
Good luck with the upcoming exams and i am glad to find out that Witbank is actually a BANK!
 
Amandla!
 
Tso Wabana

Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560)

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Nov 4, 2008, 4:41:26 AM11/4/08
to Zukile Swana, NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman, Siphiwe Mgandela, Lungisa, Ayongezwa (Mr) (s20629995), Diphapang Mofokeng, Ndimba, Xolani X, loyiso phantshwa, nyoka, Luthando, z.mat...@ru.ac.za, Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Lonwabo Msutwana, 5032...@nmmu.ac.za, 5502...@nmmu.ac.za, ecs...@union.org.za, g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, javas_m...@yahoo.com, kgos...@gmail.com, mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com, rhode...@googlegroups.com, rhodes...@googlegroups.com, run...@webmail.co.za, Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749), Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034), Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791), sasc...@googlegroups.com, sasc...@googlegroups.com, t_mas...@yahoo.com, wam...@gmail.com, zimkhith...@yahoo.com, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Ayanda Ndinise, Blue Diamond, Brenda, Bubbles, Cyril Ramaphosa, Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349), Eddie Levert, Faxi, Fayol, George Kahn, jacob B.W Yeats mbutana, Joe Sample, Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400), Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa, kholosa siphe loni, Lerato, Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569), lu...@webmail.co.za, Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989), Maphuti Mannya, mkateko lybon mdlhuli, Mmabotswa, Mthetho Blom, musa glen ndzovela, Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921), mzoxolo budaza, Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051), Ntsiko's, Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807), phetelo-castro zenzile, Poloko Motsoane, Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990), Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981), Saki Macozoma, SASCO BEC, Simphiwe Kanityi, Siphiwe Mgandela, Sol Platjie, Sonwabo Ngqontsha, syanda hypolite ngcobo, thapelo tselapedi, themig...@webmail.co.za, tinyiko mashabane, TSHEPO WICLIFT, wamuwi mbao, Winnie Mandela, xolani nyali, Yonela, Zama, Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998), zikhona nweba, Charles Doyisa (Retail), Lungelo Swana
"shame rich kid, taking so much time responding with nonsense!"
 
Please stick to the plot, I did request young intellectuals to respond to this, not those who claim to be "young and intelligent" and seem to strangely suggest that the ANC will kill them because of their empty intellects.
 
Please stick to the subject at hand or do us all a favour use your fingers to tickle yourself cause you clearly have a dry sense of humour.
 
 
 
Tso


From: Zukile Swana [mailto:zuk...@tochs.co.za]
Sent: Tue 04/11/2008 09:58 AM
To: Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560); NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman; Siphiwe Mgandela; Lungisa, Ayongezwa (Mr) (s20629995)
Cc: Diphapang Mofokeng; Ndimba, Xolani X; loyiso phantshwa; nyoka; Luthando; z.mat...@ru.ac.za; Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Lonwabo Msutwana; 5032...@nmmu.ac.za; 5502...@nmmu.ac.za; ecs...@union.org.za; g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; javas_m...@yahoo.com; kgos...@gmail.com; mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com; rhode...@googlegroups.com; rhodes...@googlegroups.com; run...@webmail.co.za; Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749); Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034); Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791); sasc...@googlegroups.com; sasc...@googlegroups.com; t_mas...@yahoo.com; wam...@gmail.com; zimkhith...@yahoo.com; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Ayanda Ndinise; Blue Diamond; Brenda; Bubbles; Cyril Ramaphosa; Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349); Eddie Levert; Faxi; Fayol; George Kahn; jacob B.W Yeats mbutana; Joe Sample; Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400); Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa; kholosa siphe loni; Lerato; Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569); lu...@webmail.co.za; Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989); Maphuti Mannya; mkateko lybon mdlhuli; Mmabotswa; Mthetho Blom; musa glen ndzovela; Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921); mzoxolo budaza; Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051); Ntsiko's; Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807); phetelo-castro zenzile; Poloko Motsoane; Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990); Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981); Saki Macozoma; SASCO BEC; Simphiwe Kanityi; Siphiwe Mgandela; Sol Platjie; Sonwabo Ngqontsha; syanda hypolite ngcobo; thapelo tselapedi; themig...@webmail.co.za; tinyiko mashabane; TSHEPO WICLIFT; wamuwi mbao; Winnie Mandela; xolani nyali; Yonela; Zama; Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998); zikhona nweba; Charles Doyisa (Retail); Lungelo Swana
Subject: Re: The Conventionists show their true agenda

Shame poor kid, taking so much time to write nonsense.  

The new party is definitely a threat to the ANC it is becoming evident, even the way the members of the ANC are starting to paint the picture of the new leaders it is evident that there is gull in their mouths.  The ANC is a party where personality determines your rank.  It comes therefore as no surprise to me that the first thing that the ANC does is attack the personalities and characters of the individuals leading the new “convention”.  To question our so representative Youth leader isn’t “giving a teenager your car and a bottle of whiskey...!” been what has happened in the past because since the inauguration of his loud mouth the ANCYL has been under fire and fast losing support due to the loose way his tongue seems to handle words.  Maybe his matric result results has nothing to do with his leadership abilities but it has a lot to say about his intellectual capacity and any high school drop-out would be able to tell you to kill is to take away the life of...or to cause death.  This is not representative of both the South African youth and our general population.  Struggle veterans have taught us that mediation is the key and violence is the hand of the oppressor.  Is the culture of violence  a new culture that the ruling party is introducing to our population?  Take a seat and analyse the pay-off lines of our new potential leaders;

• Julius-”Kill for Zuma”
• Zuma-”Awuleth’ umshini wam”
• Zuma supporters-”Kill Shillowa & Lekota”

The it gets better, our martyr have been called “snakes”...oh wait just incase some did poorly in matric a martyr is ”somebody who makes sacrifices or suffers greatly in order to advance a cause or principle”.  They have been called self-enriching while Julius Malema lives in Sandton & drives a Range Rover SUV.  Oh and the ever innocent Gedleyihlekisa has a castle in his home village.  Don’t be fooled by his dress sense & think that he is in touch with the people no no he just doesn’t have style.

Let me leave the character discrediting to the ANC they are good @ it.  Let’s live on so that there are more for the ANC to “kill’ I’m young & intelligent...an obvious threat to the ANC...”KILL ME”
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560)

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Nov 5, 2008, 4:08:05 AM11/5/08
to George Kahn, Zukile Swana, NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman, Siphiwe Mgandela, Lungisa, Ayongezwa (Mr) (s20629995), Diphapang Mofokeng, Ndimba, Xolani X, loyiso phantshwa, nyoka, Luthando, z.mat...@ru.ac.za, Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Lonwabo Msutwana, 5032...@nmmu.ac.za, 5502...@nmmu.ac.za, ecs...@union.org.za, g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, javas_m...@yahoo.com, kgos...@gmail.com, mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com, rhode...@googlegroups.com, rhodes...@googlegroups.com, run...@webmail.co.za, Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749), Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034), Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791), sasc...@googlegroups.com, sasc...@googlegroups.com, t_mas...@yahoo.com, wam...@gmail.com, zimkhith...@yahoo.com, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Ayanda Ndinise, Blue Diamond, Brenda, Bubbles, Cyril Ramaphosa, Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349), Eddie Levert, Faxi, Fayol, jacob B.W Yeats mbutana, Joe Sample, Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400), Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa, kholosa siphe loni, Lerato, Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569), lu...@webmail.co.za, Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989), Maphuti Mannya, mkateko lybon mdlhuli, Mmabotswa, Mthetho Blom, musa glen ndzovela, Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921), mzoxolo budaza, Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051), Ntsiko's, Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807), phetelo-castro zenzile, Poloko Motsoane, Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990), Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981), Saki Macozoma, SASCO BEC, Simphiwe Kanityi, Siphiwe Mgandela, Sol Platjie, Sonwabo Ngqontsha, syanda hypolite ngcobo, thapelo tselapedi, themig...@webmail.co.za, tinyiko mashabane, TSHEPO WICLIFT, wamuwi mbao, Winnie Mandela, xolani nyali, Yonela, Zama, Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998), zikhona nweba, Charles Doyisa (Retail), Lungelo Swana
Dear Mr. George Kahn and the rest
In the interest of others who are busy with exams and would not want to engage in these long debates about the "future" of this country, I thought your response to my earlier mail is noteworthy and others who have responded as well, I believe that all your points are taken into consideration and indeed it proves that as a people we are unique in our own right and that contradictions are inherent in our society and its how we manage them that is important. Further one should also be thankful that others have given this debate a thoughtful insight and responded ideologically rather than personally.
 
Having said that, I think some warrant response.
 
Firstly, Mr. Kahn has responded to almost every sentence I had written, quite well but I believe that to be in reaction to what I had written rather than air his views on the subject at hand. I think when I put my thoughts about the convention I was not only guided by my "affiliation" to a structure but purely on my interest to what young people think. Hence I got a gist of many thinking, I still feel that the subject is tip-toed in the interest of an attack on the ANC.
 
Secondly, whether the ANC is an elitist organization or not is an issue here. The ideological discourse that has always characterized the ANC is what is critical, whether the ANC has shifted from its ideals or not is another issue. Now looking at the claims that this "ANC renegades" are trying to make is one: "The ANC has shifted from the ideals of the freedom charter". One is worried when reading the freedom charter itself. Firstly the preamble of the charter itself speaks about "South Africa belongs to all those who live in it, black and white" now one wonders whether the ANC has shifted from that noble ideal. The charter also proclaims that the Land shall be shared by all those live/work on it, it further says "all doors of learning and culture shall be opened to all", the "wealth of the country shall be shared by all". Surely the agenda of the ANC is to ensure this historic achievement. Through the years the ANC has developed strategies and tactics that would ultimately result in this. One notable route is the National Democratic Revolution, which its primary tasks being that of liberating the African Majority from the scourges of poverty and underdevelopment, but also uniting the nation from false ideologies of racial and gender supremacy. When one attacks the ANC it should be on those basis, whether it has shifted from that, I certainly think not.
 
Lastly, there is a critical point which I feel should be raised, "personality cult". This has also dominated politics for a long time, one speaks of the ANC's Jacob Zuma and another speaks of Terror Lekota's convention. One of the ideals of the freedom charter speaks of "the people shall govern" and yet we also speak of "Shikota" of course that being the acronym for Lekota and Shilowa. One wonders whether Shikota really believe that the ANC has shifted from the freedom charter or perhaps they feel they are the only people who can lead us to the ultimate achievement, one wonders. One of the principles of the ANC enshrined in its constitution is "Collective leadership" and one wonders again as whether we have shifted from that.
 
Thank you once again and good luck with the exams. by the way I went to the reserve bank's website and Witbank is not a Bank Mr. George Student Council Chairman, stop misleading some underperforming individuals like us!
 
Regards
Tso
 
 


From: George Kahn [mailto:georg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tue 04/11/2008 03:53 PM

To: Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560)
Cc: Zukile Swana; NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman; Siphiwe Mgandela; Lungisa, Ayongezwa (Mr) (s20629995); Diphapang Mofokeng; Ndimba, Xolani X; loyiso phantshwa; nyoka; Luthando; z.mat...@ru.ac.za; Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Lonwabo Msutwana; 5032...@nmmu.ac.za; 5502...@nmmu.ac.za; ecs...@union.org.za; g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; javas_m...@yahoo.com; kgos...@gmail.com; mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com; rhode...@googlegroups.com; rhodes...@googlegroups.com; run...@webmail.co.za; Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749); Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034); Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791); sasc...@googlegroups.com; sasc...@googlegroups.com; t_mas...@yahoo.com; wam...@gmail.com; zimkhith...@yahoo.com; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Ayanda Ndinise; Blue Diamond; Brenda; Bubbles; Cyril Ramaphosa; Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349); Eddie Levert; Faxi; Fayol; jacob B.W Yeats mbutana; Joe Sample; Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400); Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa; kholosa siphe loni; Lerato; Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569); lu...@webmail.co.za; Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989); Maphuti Mannya; mkateko lybon mdlhuli; Mmabotswa; Mthetho Blom; musa glen ndzovela; Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921); mzoxolo budaza; Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051); Ntsiko's; Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807); phetelo-castro zenzile; Poloko Motsoane; Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990); Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981); Saki Macozoma; SASCO BEC; Simphiwe Kanityi; Siphiwe Mgandela; Sol Platjie; Sonwabo Ngqontsha; syanda hypolite ngcobo; thapelo tselapedi; themig...@webmail.co.za; tinyiko mashabane; TSHEPO WICLIFT; wamuwi mbao; Winnie Mandela; xolani nyali; Yonela; Zama; Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998); zikhona nweba; Charles Doyisa (Retail); Lungelo Swana

Subject: Re: The Conventionists show their true agenda

Dear Fellow South Africans
 
This is my brief response to the previously sent letter below, which I presume was hoping for some kind of response. In order to try and be concise as possible, I will incorporate the previous letter into my response and provide criticisms of it in brackets, where I felt the need to comment.
 
Some of my criticisms directly address the previous letter itself on political points, while others merely request some clarification or point out some logical short comings, which I feel we should try and explain and/or avoid in future, if these little exercises are going to be fruitful as a successful means of democratic debate.
 
I'd like to first thank Mtsweni for this better example of political discourse, which went beyond merely a simple paragraph that doesn't really provide much substance, and actually provided an actual skeleton of an opinion.
 
We need to appreciate that these are complex issues that we are tackling here, and are often of such a complexity that an initial entry of a single paragraph could never suffice as a full or complete argument, which would do the topic real justice. Every one of us should be able to write documents consisting of multiple pages, detailing our opinions, how we logically support them and what our final conclusions are, while even possibly giving a critique of another previous debate entry.
 
However, we also need to try and remain as respectful of one another as possible in these noble endeavours, without degrading the debate on an issue to so-called 'mudslinging'. Thus each submission should be done with greatest respect towards the topic, our perceived opposition and light of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996.
 
Dear Young Intelligentsia (Interesting choice of words, though I'm curious why you are excluding the lower class, the firmly entrenched middle-class or the upper class in your targeted audience? Since according to Marxist literature, the intelligentsia tends to refer to the newly established middle class, which had recently rising from their previous lower class status. Just curious though.)
 
Finally the much talked about "convention" convened and the excitement that was generated about it has finally come down and we got to see really what the whole fuss was about. (Has all the excitement all already calmed down? Is this not merely your own subjective opinion? Could you please supply some empirical support for this claim. I'm of the opinion that the excitement hasn't even reached boiling point yet, and things will continue to heat up, and I could possibly support this claim by referring to the recent string of direct attacks by the ANC on the newly formed party. It appears that the ANC is only started to appreciate this current situation, with the ANC even setting up a 'war room' to specifically deal with this situation, and all the name calling also coming from Zuma's party.)
 
I have always understood South Africans to be passionate beings and anything that is new and different was always going to send the country into a rapture of excitement. But has the excitement of the convention lasted? (Hasn't it? But yes, it is human nature to be interested in novel things, concepts and happenings, and often the interest eventually does pass.)
 
One has observed with interest the level of debate that was generated through emails this past few weeks, at times these have generated into mud slinging and name calling but the underlying cause being the recent political development. (I agree it has been very undemocratic and counter-progressive, we would of hoped for better behave from our future potential leaders) Media reports have suggested this weekend's activities as a "historic breakthrough" in South African politics, some have claimed that this new emerging group would give the ANC a run for their money, Mbhazima even went up to as far as suggesting that they will win next year's elections, but do we really have reason to believe this? (Do you have good reason to suggest that this is not possible? I can imagine there are many arguments to be made either way here, but what is 'your' evidence to support this claim? Surely you have to agree that this past weekend was historic, regardless of your current personal political affiliation. Such a state just seems to be a truism.)
 
My view has always been that this "breakaway group" was driven by nothing else but bitterness and hunger for power. (Some could argue that it was Jacob Zuma was the 'breakaway group' when he failed to fully endorse the Freedom Charter, like Lekota would perhaps argue. However, you explicitly point out that this is your view, but I felt I should just mention this issue.) Some comrades through this emails have suggested otherwise, but it seems i have been vindicated following this weekend. (This is a subjective opinion, and not a valid argument conclusion. More premises are required before you can make this logical leap.) Not only was the declaration equivalent to the letter written by terror to the ANC but we saw how animated Helen Zille can be amongst desiring black fanatics. (How is this relevant to your stated conclusion? There are still logical premises missing.) Kenneth Meshoe Spoke about a "Shikota Iceberg" and a sinking titanic. Lekota rambled on about the need to defend the constitution and the rule of law, Mluleki George continued to look as funny as ever, especially without his glases on, Madisha kept on staring at the roof and wondered what it would have been like had he just took the 500 000 to the bank rather than drive it around on the boot of his car. "comrades" continued to sing "revolutionary songs" in a jubilant mood and others rejoiced at the feeling of being in Sandton, even if its the first and the last time. (These are at best all ad hominem arguments, which all fail to provide a good valid reason why your previous conclusion is true or logically correct. Ad hominem arguments tend to be a sign that the person is desperate to make some kind of argument, but they will always tend to be 'very' weak arguments and never deductive.)
 
Getting back to the point, the ANC says "We want to increase the fight against crime and look at the possibility of increasing salaries of public servants" (Yes, but how? Who will pay for this and how will they fulfil this promise? So far this is only empty wishful thinking, unless they can provide more information on the how and the when. Plus the DA has been arguing along similar lines for a while now, so what's the difference?) They continue to say "Education will be a priority for the next five years, we will look at ensuring that 60% of schools become no fee schools and we will progressively introduce free education up until undergraduate level" (Again other political parties have made similar or identical statements. Furthermore, why can't the new party not merely do the same? What's stopping them, and if nothing then why is this policy plan a feather in the hat of the ANC?) the president of the ANC is unambigous when he proclaims further that "rural development and agrarian reform should be fast tracked in order to ensure that we reduce poverty and create employment to the marginalised community of our country, this will be done amongst others, through public works programs" (Again other parties have made similar policy statements, in fact its called the Chicago school of thinking) he further and confidently pronounces that no other movement can claim to achieve what we have already achieved nor can any party attempt to close the record that the ANC remains proud of. (This is entire sentence is an invalid argument, or at best a very weak inductive argument. Zuma cannot know what is in the unobserved, and it is unknown what other parties could be capable of, therefore Zuma cannot logically claim that nobody can do better. Furthermore, it was more the UDF than the ANC that is responsible for today's successes, therefore Zuma cannot claim the ANC to be the most responsibly for today's successes. Lekota by the way was part of the UDF, while Zuma was apart of the largely ineffective MK. The MK was like a small clumsy child against the former apartheid SADF, which was a well oiled, equipped and trained war machine. I could even easily argue that the ANC failed to achieve its objective of overthrowing capitalism, and instead the UDF's reform agenda succeeded. The ANC was elitist then and still is now, many can argue, while the UDF was a full participatory democracy when it still existed. Thus the UDF was 'more' democratic than the ANC. Therefore the UDF, and not the ANC, better embodied 'The People'.)

 
On the other hand, our angry compatriots vow to "defend the constitution" and ensure that "the rule of law is applied to all equally" and that we should "directly elect the president, premier, mayor and councillor", what a manifesto!, they continue to promise that they will ensure that this country is not run by "disrespectful youngsters" i would presume they mean the ANC Youth League.
 
Looking at the two scenarios one wonders as to what exactly is the agenda of our conventionists the South African Democratic Alliance or sorry Congress. (I personally prefer the name United Democratic Party (UDP) from the non-political party United Democratic Front (UDF) and later Mass Democratic Movement (MDM). It takes Lekota back to the principles he started with; non-violence, constitutional ideals, the Freedom Charter, participatory democracy, bottom-up governance and full leadership accountability with no more Democratic Centralism. Democratic Centralism is nothing but rhetoric for authoritarianism anyway.) Who threatens the constitution? was the rule of law applied fairly when the rights of the ANC President were violated and did Terror get directly elected as the Premier of Free State or Mbhazima as Gauteng Premier?, (Terror's appointment as Premier does not weaken the democratic ideal in his current claim. Thus again your support is not completely relevant here to this argument or conclusion. If you go and actually read the Nicholson judgment, you'll see that the learned judge said Zuma 'should' of been charged immediately when Shaik was charged as well. But he wasn't for ANC politics reasons, and that violated the rule of law. So yes, not charging Zuma violated rule of law because he was given favourable bias because of his ANC position.) how was the behavior of Nqaba Banga during his tenure as a student leader and youth leader or should i say is it better to have Nqaba who has clearly forgotten the term "democratic Centralism" to lead young people rather than Mr Malema who presumably did not pass matric "good enough". (see above: comment of democratic centralism, DC is akin to an oxymoron. Because it is top-down governance rather than democratic bottom-up governance like that used by the UDF.)
 
I leave it to our intelligentsia to respond. (I'm afraid my family has been middle class for a while now, just like Zuma's family.) As i close let me leave you with something that our beloved Youth League President comrade Julius Malema said "trusting people like Terror and shilowa is like giving a teenager your car and a bottle of whiskey...!, well there you have it! (maybe here an ad hominem argument may be appropriate, since I just think this subjective opinion is too ridiculous to consider a deductive truth.)
 
Good luck with the upcoming exams and i am glad to find out that Witbank is actually a BANK! (In the context of the actual joke, it is not a bank. Go to www.reservebank.co.za to find a list of all accredited banks in South Africa. Witbank is not one of them.)
 
Amandla! (Recently this term has come under attack for being part of South Africa's problems, and not part of her solutions. This power mentality has us all attacking each other in a most unconstitutional and undemocratic manner. Power corrupts, plain and simple. Rape is a crime based solely on power, therefore an Amandla! mentality is potentially a rapist mentality as well. Perhaps rather we should change the Constitutional Democratic South Africa's call to be Isidima! instead?)
 
Kind Regards

Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560)

unread,
Apr 17, 2009, 2:55:21 AM4/17/09
to Sipho January, Sonwabo Ngqontsha, Siyabulela Gebe, George Kahn, Ntuthuzelo Ngonyama, Sipho January, Xolani Samtutu, Xolani Nyali, Zukile Swana, NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman, Siphiwe Mgandela, Diphapang Mofokeng, Ndimba, Xolani X, loyiso phantshwa, Luthando, z.mat...@ru.ac.za, Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Lonwabo Msutwana, 5032...@nmmu.ac.za, 5502...@nmmu.ac.za, ecs...@union.org.za, g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za, javas_m...@yahoo.com, kgos...@gmail.com, mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com, rhode...@googlegroups.com, rhodes...@googlegroups.com, run...@webmail.co.za, Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749), Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034), Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791), sasc...@googlegroups.com, sasc...@googlegroups.com, t_mas...@yahoo.com, wam...@gmail.com, zimkhith...@yahoo.com, Awethu Amandla Zumana, Ayanda Ndinise, Blue Diamond, Brenda, Bubbles, Cyril Ramaphosa, Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349), Eddie Levert, Faxi, Fayol, jacob B.W Yeats mbutana, Joe Sample, Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400), Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa, kholosa siphe loni, Lerato, Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569), lu...@webmail.co.za, Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989), Maphuti Mannya, mkateko lybon mdlhuli, Mmabotswa, Mthetho Blom, musa glen ndzovela, Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921), mzoxolo budaza, Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051), Ntsiko's, Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807), phetelo-castro zenzile, Poloko Motsoane, Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990), Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981), Simphiwe Kanityi, Siphiwe Mgandela, Sol Platjie, syanda hypolite ngcobo, thapelo tselapedi, themig...@webmail.co.za, tinyiko mashabane, TSHEPO WICLIFT, wamuwi mbao, Winnie Mandela, xolani nyali, Yonela, Zama, Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998), zikhona nweba, Charles Doyisa (Retail), Lungelo Swana
Dear All
 
Its quiet embarrassing that some of you should stoop to this level of debate and analysis and claim to be "political analysts. I was disgusted when i first saw this gutter email on my inbox and i wondered as to where the author of this thing got my email, but then it hit me! some people have really lost all sense of knowledge based on facts and have entirely resorted to psuedo analytic mis-feelings.
 
Not only does the author fail to grasp the content of the letter written by comrade Mbalula, he immediately launches a rocket in defence of his handlers. He seeks to, unsuccesfully, try and convince us that leading a constitutional democracy like South Africa, people should sip expensive whiskeys and plan downfalls of percieved "illeterates". He is quiet forgetful unfortunately that the ANC, to which Mbeki has pledged allegiance to for decades, elects its leadership. This means that whether one is "literate" or "illeterate" bears no relationship to a democratic election into office. Further, when one is elected, there is a mandate upon which results are to be judged against. Further, the party which elects such an individual or collective, is to ensure that from time to time it puts in place corrective checks and balances so as to ensure that people dont abuse the priviledge afforded to them by the masses of our people. Never in recent history was Mbeki and his cronies mandated to deal with "someone who cant put his pants up", nor was Mbeki mandated to divide the ANC to what it has become today.
 
Mbalula's letter draws us to the wise words uttered by Mandela when handing over the baton to the incoming President. In these words, Isithalandwe Seaparankwe (the highest honour of the ANC), Mandela warns of how too much power can be devastating to the organisation when given to one person. This he captures by saying "Thabo dont surround yourself with yes men and yes women, for that will be a deviate from the principles of open debate in the ANC" he further warns Thabo that "Take care of this organisation, defend its unity.." Now when one looks at the situation that unfolded in Polokwane, our learned self proclaimed analyst would agree with me that such does not represent what Utata referred to as "defend its unity".
 
Therefore, before we rush into our cheerleading skirts and sing praises of discredited individuals, it is advisable to check our facts first before grasping newspaper edited letters and sending unpallatable emails like these to those of us who care to dig deep into issues before we make our opinions known.
 
It is also advisable to get knowledge on the ABC of politics and understand the nature and character of the National Democratic Struggle, from that we can make informed opinions based on the undestandings of the true ideals of the ANC and its allance partners.
 
One of my comrades who i have served with in SASCO Cde Kgotso Letlhapa would capture this by saying "Dont wear glasses to look nice but rather to see clearer"
 
Regards
 
Tso

From: Sipho January [siphoj...@gmail.com]
Sent: 16 April 2009 03:59 PM
To: Sonwabo Ngqontsha
Cc: Siyabulela Gebe; George Kahn; Ntuthuzelo Ngonyama; Sipho January; Xolani Samtutu; Xolani Nyali; Mtsweni, Sifiso (Mr) (s20429560); Zukile Swana; NMMU George Campus Student Council Chairman; Siphiwe Mgandela; Diphapang Mofokeng; Ndimba, Xolani X; loyiso phantshwa; Luthando; z.mat...@ru.ac.za; Kholofelo Molatela Thalakgale-Maponya; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Lonwabo Msutwana; 5032...@nmmu.ac.za; 5502...@nmmu.ac.za; ecs...@union.org.za; g08l...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; g08m...@campus.ru.ac.za; javas_m...@yahoo.com; kgos...@gmail.com; mzanzi-...@googlegroups.com; rhode...@googlegroups.com; rhodes...@googlegroups.com; run...@webmail.co.za; Mokoena, Zimkhitha (Miss) (s205019749); Sabela, Menzi (Mr) (s20503034); Lehlapa, Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791); sasc...@googlegroups.com; sasc...@googlegroups.com; t_mas...@yahoo.com; wam...@gmail.com; zimkhith...@yahoo.com; Awethu Amandla Zumana; Ayanda Ndinise; Blue Diamond; Brenda; Bubbles; Cyril Ramaphosa; Dyani, Siphumezo (Miss) (s205040349); Eddie Levert; Faxi; Fayol; jacob B.W Yeats mbutana; Joe Sample; Jonas, Branton (Mr) (s203018400); Kgotsofalang (Mr) (s205051791) Lehlapa; kholosa siphe loni; Lerato; Lesailane, Matome (Mr) (s207070569); lu...@webmail.co.za; Mani, Siphokazi (Miss) (s204049989); Maphuti Mannya; mkateko lybon mdlhuli; Mmabotswa; Mthetho Blom; musa glen ndzovela; Mvambi, Njongo (Mr) (s50328921); mzoxolo budaza; Nakani, Melumza (Mr) (s206013051); Ntsiko's; Nyondla, Anda (Mr) (s20512807); phetelo-castro zenzile; Poloko Motsoane; Pritchard, Shaun (Mr) (s20517990); Rune, Mawethu (Mr) (s206039981); Simphiwe Kanityi; Siphiwe Mgandela; Sol Platjie; syanda hypolite ngcobo; thapelo tselapedi; themig...@webmail.co.za; tinyiko mashabane; TSHEPO WICLIFT; wamuwi mbao; Winnie Mandela; xolani nyali; Yonela; Zama; Zana, Vuyani (Mr) (s20432998); zikhona nweba; Charles Doyisa (Retail); Lungelo Swana
Subject: Re: A case in point: Fikile Mbalula

Pre-94 SA was in an abusive relationship, got divorced and remarried a 'better partner'. 15 years down the line SA realises it is in another abusive rel. the only difference is an apology with flowers each time SA gets a slap. When SA threatens with divorse the partner is quick 2 invest in marriage counselling followed by various promises. Will they be fullfiled only time will tell...

2009/4/15 Sonwabo Ngqontsha <ngqo...@yahoo.com>
Dear Learned Comrades,

I appreciate the kind of politician Fikile Mbalula has turned out to be lately. First he acknowledges that things have been difficult without former ANC President Thabo Mbeki on the campaign team. Secondly, he finds it crucial to state that the former president didn’t find the current president capable of being state president by conspiring ways to bring him down. Finally, and most importantly, he manifests just what a great little accident Zuma has made in handing this little political infant such powers as he did.


Well, I should admit, this should have taken some good expensive liquor, great thinking coupled with guts. Ofcourse, for those of you who did not know, Zuma is a great disaster of Mbeki’s misjudgement, as Mbalula is proving to be of Zuma’z. It is a norm in the ANC to misjudge characters. That’s what you are bound to get when you have talent in abundance anyway.


Let’s break this down should we: Thabo Mbeki’s elections campaigns for two consecutive elections were not as costly, yet they were progressively successful. They were brilliant because he was such a clean, intelligent and iconic figure in his own right. He could not be benchmarked. He ought to be part of the team to grant first hand experience. Mbalula is right.


Assuming that Mbeki did pull a conspiracy against Zuma its clear to me to understand why. He was cleaning up after his mess. He knew that this man is incompetent, illiterate, cannot keep it in his pants and no rand will go pass him without getting some. Zuma is desperate for wealth accumulation as much as he is for taking it to the bedroom. Mbeki owed it to the nation to tidy up. Mbalula is correct. Let’s admit, this one time, Mbeki failed dismally. He’s even living the regret.


Fikile Mbalula. The fresh Xhosa initiate. This is the kind of politician you do not wish to have in an organisation such as the ANC. Such arrogance is the one that resulted to the subsequent fall of the PAC. Yes. It is the kind of arrogance that will effectively enhance the splinter into a greater form. It is such a misdirected energy. He’s always shown hate for the old man. One can easily say he admires him. There could be such a thin line, you know. If anything should be said about his stance, it should be that he is starting to show a sense of undermining to the current executive leadership and the NEC as a whole, of the ruling party. He single-handedly spoke of a senior cadre as such a greatest loser of the 20th century. No harm done to the one who will “always be my president”. He’s quiet diplomacy works best at this stage. It worked in Zimbabwe, proves to be such a difficult opponent to the tripartite alliance. I wish to suggest that they find HOPE or COPE with it.


Kind regards,



Sonwabo Ngqontsha

Self proclaimed political analist








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