Super SID program

[kim hay]

Hi there 

We run a Super  SID setup and are trying too set it up on a Raspberry Pi. 

We keep running into library issues.

Is there a new version of the Super Sid program that is being used for the new kits that SARA is putting together for the kits?

Is Raspberry Pi an option?

Sorry we missed the Drakes lounge yesterday but we were working on the Super SID.

Kim Hay

Canada

[Jim Hannon]

I have just gotten this version of software running on a Raspberry Pi.
https://github.com/ericgibert/supersid

Jim Hannon

--
WB0TXL
WEB Page http://www.ocrslc.net/
Blog http://jimhannon.wordpress.com
CoCoRaHS station IA-LN-7
42,11.90N,91,39.26W

[cdnspooky]

Hi Jim

Do you have specifics on the sound card that your using. We are trying
to use a sound dongle and running into issues.

We have tried Eric's version, and there were library issues.

What version of Pi are you running 3.07?

Kim

[Steve Berl]

You might try https://github.com/sberl/supersid. It's still a bit of a work in progress, but has fixes for some of the issues with Eric's version.

I'm working on some updated documentation also. 

I've tested it on Debian Buster on a Dell, but not on a RPi yet. 

I've only used it with python3.

Let me know how it goes and if you have any questions.

Steve

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-steve

[David Westman]

The sound card that has been used in the SuperSID kits (SYBA AUD-0201) is being replaced by the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO2D because the old sound card sometimes has included a chip that cannot operate at 96 kHz, and it has not been updated to work with Windows 10.   If anyone is having sound card issues with the SYBA dongle, please contact Jonathan Pettingale for further information.

[Jim Hannon]

Kim,
I am using a HIFIberry DAC+ADC pro hat for the sound card.
https://www.hifiberry.com/blog/the-new-dac-adc-pro/ It is a bit of
overkill but I thought I would try it. I would think anything that works
with ALSA would work.
The processor is a Raspberry 4 running raspbian buster.

Jim Hannon

[Steve Berl]

So one of the fixes that I made in the new version of supersid at https://github.com/sberl/supersid, is a config parameter DEVICE, which takes the full ALSA device name of the card. The old CARD parameter only allowed the suffix part of the device specifier to be configured, and the prefix part was defaulted to something like "systemdefault:". I can't check that detail as I am not near my machine. 

To get a list of the available sound devices on your system, use the program find_alsa_devices.py from https://github.com/sberl/supersid/tree/master/supersid. It will spit out a list of the full ALSA device names for all the capture capable devices.

I found that each physical device can end up with multiple names in this list, and the capabilities of the device depend on what name you pick. The one that starts with "plughw:" seemed to allow the higher sampling rates than the others.

Not sure how widespread this issue is with different sound cards and OS versions, but if you aren't seeing the behavior you want you might try this.

Steve

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-steve

[cdnspooky]

Hi Steve

Thank you for letting us know. Last night we got the SuperSid working as we did have CARD=Device and that worked. We have it on a test bed now and only have NAA loaded. We will be loading the other two stations we get NKL, NML.

It did default to 64000 samplings and we were able to amp it up to 96000 which seems much smoother.  The plughw is in our setupfile.

The idea is too move it to the antenna location and final setup on the weekend....after the snow and soon to be rain.

Thank you Jim and Steve for your notes, we will be putting them into our folder for future use.

Kim

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[Ciprian Sufitchi]

I know in the past that the Linux version of SuperSID was limited to 48 kHz sampling on Raspberry Pi. Apparently the cause was the kernel (hardwired configuration or bug). That was the situation about 4-5 years ago. Does anyone know if the most recent kernel versions have resolved that problem and SuperSID can be used on Raspberry Pi with 96 kHz sampling rate or more (provided that the external card supports that)?

 

Thanks,

Chip

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[Jim Hannon]

I tried the HIFIberry card a 192 KHz and it worked.

Jim Hannon

On 2/23/2021 12:34 PM, Ciprian Sufitchi wrote:
> I know in the past that the Linux version of SuperSID was limited to 48
> kHz sampling on Raspberry Pi. Apparently the cause was the kernel
> (hardwired configuration or bug). That was the situation about 4-5 years
> ago. Does anyone know if the most recent kernel versions have resolved
> that problem and SuperSID can be used on Raspberry Pi with 96 kHz
> sampling rate or more (provided that the external card supports that)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chip
>
>

[Bill Kunkle]

I replaced my original SYBA AUD-0201 sound card on the RPi with a StarTech ICUSBAUDIO2D that I found locally.  The levels are maxed out in alsamixer but the signals are extremely low compared to the SYBA.  Any suggestions?

SYBA

 

StarTech

[Jonathan Pettingale]

Bill,

 

During my testing of the StarTech soundcard, I did find that it had less gain at full volume than the SYBA, but nowhere near as much as you show. The StarTech card is also less noisy than the SYBA. My testing was done on Windows 7 & 10 only.

 

Jonathan

 

SYBA

 

 

StarTech

 

 

From: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Bill Kunkle
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 7:14 PM
To: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SARA] Super SID program

 

I replaced my original SYBA AUD-0201 sound card on the RPi with a StarTech ICUSBAUDIO2D that I found locally.  The levels are maxed out in alsamixer but the signals are extremely low compared to the SYBA.  Any suggestions?

 

SYBA

 

StarTech

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 12:12:46 PM UTC-7 jmha...@fmtcs.com wrote:

I tried the HIFIberry card a 192 KHz and it worked.

Jim Hannon

On 2/23/2021 12:34 PM, Ciprian Sufitchi wrote:
> I know in the past that the Linux version of SuperSID was limited to 48
> kHz sampling on Raspberry Pi. Apparently the cause was the kernel
> (hardwired configuration or bug). That was the situation about 4-5 years
> ago. Does anyone know if the most recent kernel versions have resolved
> that problem and SuperSID can be used on Raspberry Pi with 96 kHz
> sampling rate or more (provided that the external card supports that)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chip
>
>
--
WB0TXL
WEB Page http://www.ocrslc.net/
Blog http://jimhannon.wordpress.com
CoCoRaHS station IA-LN-7
42,11.90N,91,39.26W

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[Bill Kunkle]

Thanks for the reply, Jonathan.  

When looking at alsamixer with the SYBA, there is an automatic gain control icon that shows up.  At this time of night, with it in the on position I am getting readings +/- 2500 on station NAA - with it off the signal drops down to +/- 25.  With the StarTech card the automatic gain control does not show up in alsamixer and NAA is down to around 0.66.   They both show a nice spike above the noise floor for NAA on the spectrograph.  Interesting.

SYBA auto gain control on

SYBA auto gain control off

StarTech  no auto gain control available in alsamixer

[Steve Berl]

Someone recently reported that powering the sound card from the RPi USB port produced lower levels than from a powered hub. Could be something else to try.

Steve

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--

-steve

[Bill Kunkle]

Yes, that was me!  I'm thinking that the chipset in the StarTech ICUSBAUDIO2D is not compatible with the RPi.  Similar to the problem with the newer SYBA card.

[Bill Kunkle]

Jim,

What did you put in the config file under Card= to specify the HIFIberry hat?

[Bill Kunkle]

Nevermind, I found it using find_alsa_devices.py

I have an AudioInjector Zero card that I'm testing.  Looks like it may work.

Thanks,

Bill

[Jim Hannon]

It took me a bit of fiddling to figure out what to put there.
It is: Card=sndrpihifiberry


Jim Hannon

> WEB Page http://www.ocrslc.net/ <http://www.ocrslc.net/>
> Blog http://jimhannon.wordpress.com <http://jimhannon.wordpress.com>
> CoCoRaHS station IA-LN-7
> 42,11.90N,91,39.26W
>
>

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[Marcus Fisher]

Using the StarTech device what do you put in for the "Device = " parameter value?

I cannot get pyalsaudio installed due to some dependencies when compiling (i.e. alsaaudio.h) and so I cannot run findAlsaDevices.py 

[Marcus Fisher]

Working with my students to get SuperSID set back up, the old machine finally quit on us. Now using a linux machine and StarTech USB sound capture device.  Everything installed alright but I cannot get good signals on the transmitters we are looking for. Here is the image that we are always seeing no matter how we position the antenna, any thoughts that jump to mind what we are doing wrong ????  not sure what to try next and would really like to get this set up in the class room

--Marcus

[Jon Wallace]

Marcus,

You would probably get better answers on the Super-SID list but to my eye it looks like you have a sound card that only goes to 48KHz (actually not even that...) instead of the required 96KHz. It might be that you need to turn it on but I can't help you with that - sorry! Try the Super-SID group at:  

Good luck!

Jon

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sara-list/16fa56af-7230-4520-8259-9df685a01066n%40googlegroups.com.

[jpett...@gmail.com]

Marcus,

 

You need to adjust the sampling rate. The sound card is capable of sampling at 96kHz, you just need to adjust the settings.

 

Jonathan

 

From: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Marcus Fisher
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 10:09 AM
To: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SARA] Super SID program

 

Working with my students to get SuperSID set back up, the old machine finally quit on us. Now using a linux machine and StarTech USB sound capture device.  Everything installed alright but I cannot get good signals on the transmitters we are looking for. Here is the image that we are always seeing no matter how we position the antenna, any thoughts that jump to mind what we are doing wrong ????  not sure what to try next and would really like to get this set up in the class room

--Marcus

 

 

 

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 11:40:16 AM UTC-4 Marcus Fisher wrote:

Using the StarTech device what do you put in for the "Device = " parameter value?

 

I cannot get pyalsaudio installed due to some dependencies when compiling (i.e. alsaaudio.h) and so I cannot run findAlsaDevices.py 

On Friday, February 26, 2021 at 10:10:38 PM UTC-5 bk1...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Jonathan.  

 

When looking at alsamixer with the SYBA, there is an automatic gain control icon that shows up.  At this time of night, with it in the on position I am getting readings +/- 2500 on station NAA - with it off the signal drops down to +/- 25.  With the StarTech card the automatic gain control does not show up in alsamixer and NAA is down to around 0.66.   They both show a nice spike above the noise floor for NAA on the spectrograph.  Interesting.

SYBA auto gain control on

 

SYBA auto gain control off

 

StarTech  no auto gain control available in alsamixer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sara-list/16fa56af-7230-4520-8259-9df685a01066n%40googlegroups.com.

[salvador]

Hi Everyone.

had the same problem of the incomplete spectrogram and my friend Bill  Kunkle : found the solution.

This is the solution for Startech Sound Card: By Bill Kunkle..

Let us do the following:

Open a command window and then:

cd /usr/share/alsa

Make a backup of the file that you will edit. Just in case there is a problem.

sudo cp alsa.conf alsa_bak.conf

Edit the file

sudo nano alsa.conf

Scroll down to the line: defaults.pcm.dmix.rate 48000

Change to 96000

Save the file and exit

Here is the line that I modified to 96000

After you edit that file, restart supersid and send me a screenshot of the spectrograph.

Here is my before and after.

Regards

Salvador Aguirre

Mex.

[Marcus Fisher]

Okay Salvador, excellent advice/note ... I made the changes to the configuration file and the spectrograph is looking better (see attached). 

Two interesting things:

1) On the StarTech USB sound card where it shows you that it is sampling at either 96khz, 48khz, or 44.1 ... the LED is still lit on the 48 kHZ, that has not changed

2 )seems to be a lot of noise in our school in looking at the spectrograph

--Marcus

[Steve Berl]

Is that spectrum with the antenna connected or not? I don't think it is really sampling at 96k.

Were you able to run find_alsa_devices.py? What was the output with the sound card plugged in?

Steve

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-steve

[jpett...@gmail.com]

The lights on the front reflect the output sampling rate, not the input sampling rate.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sara-list/b571b604-1b2a-4b11-8241-7fd0f4f7fdb0n%40googlegroups.com.

[Marcus Fisher]

I did run find_alsa_devices.py (see attached image), based on previous posts it was suggested to use "Card=Device" from what I found in my alsa device list.

--Marcus

[Steve Berl]

For me what works best is 

DEVICE=plughw:CARD=Device,DEV=0

But I may be using a different device that you.

Try different values from the list and use the DEVICE keyword instead of CARD.

Steve

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--

-steve

[Marcus Fisher]

Thanks for the input, when I put anything other than "CARD=<something>" then I get a python error "AttributeError: 'Sampler' object has no attribute 'capture_device'"

I even tried all the other devices (e.g. PCH) and wasn't getting anything, so mine has to be "CARD=Device"

When you all looked at my spectrograph you all quickly said that it wasn't sampling at 96kHz ... how can you tell that by looking at the graph?

not sure what else to actually try

[Bill Kunkle]

I believe that DEVICE= will only work on the new version of SuperSID that Steve is working on finalizing.  The original version will only recognize CARD=.

If you were sampling at 48kHz the spectrograph would probably look like this.

[Steve Berl]

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 8:02 AM Bill Kunkle <bk1...@gmail.com> wrote:

I believe that DEVICE= will only work on the new version of SuperSID that Steve is working on finalizing.  The original version will only recognize CARD=.

Yes. That's a newer feature in the version at https://github.com/sberl/supersid. The "master" branch will always be the latest "best" version. All the changes are happening and being tested on other branches. So unless you want to be on the bleeding edge, stick with master. If you want to try more experimental versions, please let me know and you can help to make sure I don't break things too badly. And if anyone has issues, or suggestions for the app, please feel free to open "Issues" at github.com. If you want to help with development of the code, please contact me.

CARD was the original configuration keyword for specifying the device, but it made a bunch of assumptions about the form of the name ALSA (the standard Linux audio device interface) would use. The new configuration keyword DEVICE= will just take the name string you get from find_alsa_devices.py and pass it into the ALSA API.

I wouldn't say "finalizing" though. It's more incremental than that. Currently I'm working on improvements to ftp_to_stanford.py. That should be coming out soon.

Also, Marcus, it doesn't appear you are a member of the SuperSID forum at groups.io. That's a great place to get help with SuperSID issues. Please sign up https://groups.io/g/supersid

--

-steve

[Keith Payea]

Hi Steve:

 

This isn’t a high priority change, just nice to have if possible.  Auto-ranging the live graph is very helpful during setup, but after a while it would be nice to set the range and leave it.  Then you can take a quick look at the spectrum and get an idea what’s going on without having to figure out the scale each time.

 

Thanks,

 

                Keith

 

From: sara...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Steve Berl
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 09:25
To: sara...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SARA] Super SID program

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 8:02 AM Bill Kunkle <bk1...@gmail.com> wrote:

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-steve

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[Marcus Fisher]

I must be missing something subtle ... I am using the master branch and when I use the following in the configuration file  "DEVICE=plughw:CARD=DEVICE,DEV=0" then I always get the following error

AttributeError: 'Sampler' object has no attribute 'capture_device'

[Marcus Fisher]

So maybe I am collecting at 96000 hertz ... here is a plot from 8/28 ... you can see the atmosphere overnight then settles down and climbs during the day ... how could I test/confirm that I am collecting at 96000 hertz?

[Steve Berl]

Here's a link to what others saw from transmitter NAU on 8/28/2021 http://sid.stanford.edu/database-browser/browse.jsp?date=2021-08-28T00.00.00

So NAU transmits at 40.75kHz. If you were sampling at 48kHz, you probably wouldn't be seeing such a nicely shaped graph with the sunrise signature and nice hump over the course of the day. You would only have junk for any transmitter above 24kHz.

So I think you are good.

Steve

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-steve