Low cost LNA for 21 cm

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

Hi there,

after joining the group and reading quite a few posts I wanted start sharing some information which we have collected over time at our "Astropeiler Stockert" telescope.

We were looking for low cost options for 21 cm LNA just in case ours would get damaged by lightning.

We came across new products from Triquint Seminconductor, which turn out to be quie useful, TQP3M9036 and TQP3M9037. The components may be difficult to handle, but they sell evaluation boards which are very easy to work with:
TQP3M9036-PCB
TQP3M9037-PCB

We have tested both in the lab. Even though the data sheet would suggest that the TQP3M9036 is the better choice for 21cm, acutally the TQP3M9037 sample we have has superior performance at 21cm.

TQP3M9036
Gain @ 1420 MHz: 16dB ; Noise figure @ 1420 MHz: 0.49

TQP3M9037
Gain @ 1420 MHz: 23dB ; Noise figure @ 1420 MHz: 0.33

We purchased the evaluation boards through the local distributer here for about 50 EUR a piece plus taxes. Prices for the unassembled components is around 3 EUR.

Even though the boards come without a housing, we believe they can be quite useful for our purposes. We have not yet tested them in our actual receiver.

Best regards
Wolfgang

[Joe McCauley]

Thats interesting Wolfgang. Mouser sell the TQP3M9037-PCB for €55. Do you know if this board has the components already? It is not 100% clear to me from their website. Did you do any tests on these in the S Band?

Joe

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[Marcus D. Leech]

Thats interesting Wolfgang. Mouser sell the TQP3M9037-PCB for �55. Do you know if this board has the components already? It is not 100% clear to me from their website. Did you do any tests on these in the S Band?

Joe

That board looks very interesting.

I'd like to know if it's just the board, or you have to stuff it yourself.

-- 
Marcus Leech
Principal Investigator
Shirleys Bay Radio Astronomy Consortium
http://www.sbrac.org

[jjm]

Hi Wolfgang,
For information, I am using Kuhne Electronic device MKU 141. It seems there is a new model with 2 stages MKU 142
http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/products/low-noise-amplifiers/ku-lna-142-ah-hemt.html
I had very stable results.

Report on TQP3M9037 could be interesting.

Anybody has experience with smaller NF to measure smaller signal (or reduce integration time) ?
Thank you. Best regards.
JJ F1EHN
http://www.f1ehn.org page "radioastro"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGwkZY4E64k : measurement of our Galaxy on 21cm.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : sara...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara...@googlegroups.com] De la part de Wolfgang Herrmann
Envoyé : mardi 2 juillet 2013 16:09
À : sara...@googlegroups.com
Objet : [SARA] Low cost LNA for 21 cm

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

The board comes fully assembled, even with SMA connectors. You just have to hook up power and you are ready to go.

Wolfgang

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

We measured the gain of the 9037 up to 3 GHz, it was 17dB. Our noise figure meter stops at 1.6 GHz, though. Noise figure at that frequency was 0.45 dB.

Regards
Wolfgang

[Marcus D. Leech]

If you're considering doing your own board layout for these, you should
consider my 21cm dielectric filter modules after the LNA. They are
custom-made
for 21cm, give about 30Mhz of 3dB bandwidth centered at 1420.410Mhz.

[Tristan Steele]

Hi Marcus,

I'm sorry if I have missed some other reference, but do you have some more details on your filter modules?

Thanks,

Tristan

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[Marcus D. Leech]

On 07/03/2013 09:36 AM, Tristan Steele wrote:
> Hi Marcus,
>
> I'm sorry if I have missed some other reference, but do you have some
> more details on your filter modules?
>
> Thanks,
> Tristan
>

See attached document.

I had these custom-made back in 2008. Still have lots of them. I sell
them for $5.00 apiece.

[Tristan Steele]

Is anyone in Australia interested on splitting the shipping on some of these filters?

Tristan

[Henrik Schneider]

Hallo Wolfgang and others.

Have you had time to life-test the LNA on 21cm?

Regards
Henrik Schneider
Tyvstedgaard Observatorie - DK

[Dennis Farr]

Not yet, but I have started construction on the feed horn.

Hope to do some testing with my signal generator soon.  

Still need a band pass filter.  Probably order the one from 

Mini Circuits for $35.

[Curt Porter]

Hi Dennis,

   Excellent looking setup.

I am wondering what size coffee cans those are? And the total length?

Also they look cut & 'swaged' together, are they soldered or tack welded first?

thanks,

 - Curt in EM66pf

---

From: Dennis Farr <farrd...@gmail.com>
To: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

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[djl]

Dennis: I'd recommend te following:

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa652/slaa652.pdf

and something like:

https://www.microwaves101.com/calculators/859-cascade-calculator

You may find that the third amp in your chain is overdriven. Include the coax loss as an amplifier at various places in your amp chain to see where it should go. the amp chain you show needs to be in a shielded box, where it's going to be a really good oscillator.

Been there, done that.

Keep goin' it looks great!

Happy Hols

Don

--

Dr. Don Latham
PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
VOX: 406-626-4304

[djl]

Sorry:  

https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-noise-figure.aspx

is a better choice. Also see the left sidebar for an impressive list of calculators!!!

Don

On 2016-12-14 11:52, Curt Porter wrote:

--

[Dennis Farr]

Thanks Curt.  

The coffee cans were 30 ounce cans, 8" in diameter and about 5.5" high.

I cut the top off one, and the bottom off the other.

After cutting tabs in the one I had cut the bottom off, I bent the tabs in and

slid it into the other can about one inch.  They are attached with pop rivets.

The probe is 4.8 cm long and soldered to a type N chassis connector which is

inserted 7 cm from the bottom of the can. 

The sheet metal screws I used to attach the chassis connector are a little long

and I'll look for some shorter ones.

I've been a ham for over 40 years and like building stuff.  I'm sure

there are a lot of problems with one, but at least I've got something to start with.

Dennis

WB4RJK

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

Henrik,

I did not life-test the Triquint LNAs so far. They were purchased as spares in case our original LNAs would be damaged by lightning. Fortunately this has not happened so far :-)

However, we are in the process of building a 3m telescope for use by schools. We may use the Triquint there as they performed well on the test bench. Getting first light on this telescope is still a few months out, though. I will report back once we have some test results.

I understand that Marcus Leech is using a Triquint LNA, maybe he can share some of his experience.

 

Best regards

Wolfgang

 

 

 

 

---

Von: sara...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Henrik Schneider
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2016 10:31
An: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Betreff: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

[Henrik Schneider]

Thanks

We are in the process of setting up at 2.5meter system, (to be expanded to 5m when everything is "go" " and we have now purchases a number of TQP3M9037 and a number of GRF2051.
I have discussed the noise data with the GRF2051 vendor and they do expect a NF of 0.3-0.35 at 1420MHz @25C and NF of 0.1 dB @ -30C.
SO if this is correct it will be of create important what is done upstream the chip. Our design will focus on exactly that, no connectors (waveguide sniffer directly soldered on the pcb), no matching circuit and nothing else that can attenuate the weak input signal. The feedhorn will be a conical feedhorn with 2 linear probes, if we want to have a circular polarization the phase mixing can be done after the 2 LNA's.     

We have not planned for it, but it could be cool to cool the LNA also........................

We expect first light in late 2017 maybe first in 2018.

I am looking forward to see your test when you are there :)

br.
henrik

[Marcus Leech]

I've been using the TQP3M9037 in our 21cm telescope for over a year.  No problems.

Also used on our Pulsar antenna, and will be used on our UHF interferometer.  They're good little LNAs.

I also purchased some of these SPF5189s, but haven't put them in service yet.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 2:59 AM, 'Wolfgang Herrmann' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Henrik,

I did not life-test the Triquint LNAs so far. They were purchased as spares in case our original LNAs would be damaged by lightning. Fortunately this has not happened so far :-)

However, we are in the process of building a 3m telescope for use by schools. We may use the Triquint there as they performed well on the test bench. Getting first light on this telescope is still a few months out, though. I will report back once we have some test results.

I understand that Marcus Leech is using a Triquint LNA, maybe he can share some of his experience.

 

Best regards

Wolfgang

 

 

 

 

Von: sara...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara-list@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Henrik Schneider
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2016 10:31
An: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Betreff: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

 

Hallo Wolfgang and others.

Have you had time to life-test the LNA on 21cm?

Regards
Henrik Schneider
Tyvstedgaard Observatorie - DK

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[Henrik Schneider]

Thanks both for your reply, I am looking forward to test it myself.

/Henrik

[Dennis Farr]

Finally getting to test this setup.

Does anyone know what the current draw is on these?

I have a PS that only puts out 4.5vdc or 12vdc.

Will the work at 4.5?

If not I need to determine the dropping resistor to run two of them in parallel at 12vdc.

Thanks

Dennis

[Dennis Farr]

I did the testing on the amps today.

I used a 50ft coil of stranded speaker wire which has about 11 ohms resistance total.

The total current draw for the two amplifiers was 167ma.  Volts at power supply=7, volts at amps = 5.

Filter is mini circuits VBFZ-1400.

Below is graph of overall gain of system.

Dennis

WB4RJK

[Marcus D. Leech]

Could you describe how gain was measured?

[Dennis Farr]

Actually, I'm writing a paper on how I do it that I hope to present at the

July SARA conference at Greenbank.  

I haven't heard back from the event coordinators yet so if they

reject the paper, I'll publish it here.

Dennis

[Dennis Farr]

I purchased two of these mounted on a pcb with sma connectors and would like to get more.

I think I got them on ebay.

Can no longer find them.  Anyone know where to get them?

Thanks

Dennis

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

Hi Dennis,

The manufacturer of these devices, Triquint, seems to have been acquired by another company named Qorvo.

Try going via http://www.qorvo.com/support/how-to-buy

 

FYI, in the meantime we have tested them in an actual telescope front end. Working fine.

 

Wolfgang

 

 

 

---

Von: sara...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Dennis Farr
Gesendet: Montag, 14. August 2017 21:45
An: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Betreff: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

 

I purchased two of these mounted on a pcb with sma connectors and would like to get more.

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[Oleg Kutkov]

Hi there.
I'm newbie here, also building my own LNA for the radio telescope.
Currently i'm stuck with first stage cascade. I read this topic and found that TQP3M9037 is really good and cheap. But also i found some other ic's: SKY67151 and GRF2051 (which is new on market).
So the question now is what to choose?
1. TQP3M9037
2. GRF2051
3. SKY67151

Another question is about passive components around lna, TQP3M9037 for example.
Example schematic from datasheet.
Which values of C1 L2 L1 and C2 do you choose for best tune on 1420 MHz?

Thanks.

--
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov.

[Michiel Klaassen]

Hi Oleg,

Some people think that you got to have nike shoes to be able to run fast.

But as a start you can also try first with a mini coaxial cable amplifier; sat v mini dvb-t/sat 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wentronic-67237-GB-Coaxial-Amplifier-5-2300/dp/B001AI7OOQ

see also

http://parac.eu/projectmk9.htm

regards

Michiel

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[Oleg Kutkov]

Thanks, but dvb/sat amplifiers is worst solution which I already tried at the very beginning :)

Currently I'm using my handmade two-stage amplifier, based on SPF5043Z LNA's with a HFCN-1200 filter between stages.
With this amplifier I already had a first light on my 3 meter dish. Sun, Inmarsat satellites and of course most powerful hydrogen sources.
Hydrogen is on the edge of sensitivity and it's time to make something better.

Basic idea is also two-stage amplifier with really cool LNA on the front: TQP3M9037, GRF2051 or SKY67151. HFCN-1200 filter after first stage and SPF5043Z or pga-103+ as a additional/line amplifier.
So the question is what lna ic's (and passive components) is better for the first stage.
I hope somebody had user experience.

--
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

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[JAN HENNING LUSTRUP]

*Hi,

I have had good sucess with hydrogen line detecting with RAS lna and/or G4DDK VLNA.(last one is a kit, but may be bought also ready made).

Good Luck..

Jan LA3EQ, Norway

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[Wolfgang Herrmann]

Hi Oleg,

I do not have a comparison between the devices you mentioned but I can report on some experience with the TQP devices.

We purchased the little evaluation boards with TQP3M9037 and TQP3M9036 originally as spare parts just in case our LNAs at our 25m dish would get damaged. Even though the 9036 seemed to be more suited for 1420 MHz according to the data sheet we found that the 9037 performed better:

 

9037 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 22.7 dB; NF 0.33 dB

9036 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 16.0 dB; NF 0.49 dB

 

We have just tested them in a real application as front end amplifiers with our  3m dish, using the 9037 as first stage and the 9036 as second stage. They worked fine and I can confirm this device may be a good choice. Nevertheless the other devices you mentioned may be just as good or even superior. Lacking any experience with these devices we just cannot tell.

I have just ordered some cheap LNA via Ebay from a Chinese source. It will be interesting to see how they perform in comparison.

 

As far as our question concerning the optimum passive components is concerned: Since we purchased the evaluation board we did not deviate from what was on there.  It seems to be different from what you quote, but the data sheet claims they are not critical.

 

Good luck!

Wolfgang

 

---

Von: sara...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Oleg Kutkov
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. August 2017 14:57
An: Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Betreff: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

--

[Marcus D. Leech]

On 09/01/2017 03:44 PM, 'Wolfgang Herrmann' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers wrote:

Hi Oleg,

I do not have a comparison between the devices you mentioned but I can report on some experience with the TQP devices.

We purchased the little evaluation boards with TQP3M9037 and TQP3M9036 originally as spare parts just in case our LNAs at our 25m dish would get damaged. Even though the 9036 seemed to be more suited for 1420 MHz according to the data sheet we found that the 9037 performed better:

 

9037 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 22.7 dB; NF 0.33 dB

9036 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 16.0 dB; NF 0.49 dB

 

We have just tested them in a real application as front end amplifiers with our  3m dish, using the 9037 as first stage and the 9036 as second stage. They worked fine and I can confirm this device may be a good choice. Nevertheless the other devices you mentioned may be just as good or even superior. Lacking any experience with these devices we just cannot tell.

I have just ordered some cheap LNA via Ebay from a Chinese source. It will be interesting to see how they perform in comparison.

 

As far as our question concerning the optimum passive components is concerned: Since we purchased the evaluation board we did not deviate from what was on there.  It seems to be different from what you quote, but the data sheet claims they are not critical.

 

Good luck!

Wolfgang

If I were doing a 21cm LNA design again, I'd use the following lineup:

TQP3M9037---->BFCN-1445+--->SPF-5189Z--->3dB--->BFCN-1445+---->SPF-5189Z--->BFCN-1445+

I'd build-in a "bias-up-the-coax" circuit as well.

I might even, if the substrate is high-quality, put in a shorted 1/4-lambda stub on the input.  This will both protect against ESD, and provide a bit of "roughing" filtering.

I also have a few hundred custom dielectric filters specifically designed for 21cm that could be used instead of the BFCN-1445+, if someone is really interested in pursuing a decent, "modern" design such as
  the above.

[Wolfgang Herrmann]

As mentioned in my previous post I had ordered cheap LNA from a Chinese source.

 

They have arrived, here is the performance:

#1 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 14.1 dB; NF 0.84

#2 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 14.2 dB; NF 0.84

 

They claim 19dB and a NF of 0.6 at 900 MHz so it seems that they in the ballpark of their spec. I have not measured at 900 MHz yet.

Best regards

Wolfgang

 

---

Von: sara-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:sara...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Marcus D. Leech
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. September 2017 17:36
An: sara...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: Re: AW: [SARA] Re: Low cost LNA for 21 cm

 

On 09/01/2017 03:44 PM, 'Wolfgang Herrmann' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers wrote:

Hi Oleg,

I do not have a comparison between the devices you mentioned but I can report on some experience with the TQP devices.

We purchased the little evaluation boards with TQP3M9037 and TQP3M9036 originally as spare parts just in case our LNAs at our 25m dish would get damaged. Even though the 9036 seemed to be more suited for 1420 MHz according to the data sheet we found that the 9037 performed better:

 

9037 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 22.7 dB; NF 0.33 dB

9036 @ 1420 MHz: Gain 16.0 dB; NF 0.49 dB

 

We have just tested them in a real application as front end amplifiers with our  3m dish, using the 9037 as first stage and the 9036 as second stage. They worked fine and I can confirm this device may be a good choice. Nevertheless the other devices you mentioned may be just as good or even superior. Lacking any experience with these devices we just cannot tell.

I have just ordered some cheap LNA via Ebay from a Chinese source. It will be interesting to see how they perform in comparison.

 

As far as our question concerning the optimum passive components is concerned: Since we purchased the evaluation board we did not deviate from what was on there.  It seems to be different from what you quote, but the data sheet claims they are not critical.

 

Good luck!

Wolfgang

 

--