Trying to create a more optimal Indic input method.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

(cross posting to sanskrit-p...@googlegroups.com and m17n-list <m17n...@nongnu.org>  - will update both threads in case I receive an answer.)

While I was trying to create a more efficient (yet phonetically intuitive) Indic input method (driven by the observation from Sanskrit that the "consonant followed by virama" pattern occurs far fewer times than the "consonant followed by a" pattern - ie. क् is rarer than क), I created the attached file.

But I have so far not succeeded in getting it to work on my Ubuntu 14.04 computer (it just doesn't show up when restart ibus-daemon). Can someone fix it or tell me a simple way of debugging it?

--

--
Vishvas /विश्वासः

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

Here is the file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l08us3dk0h90x7/hi-optitransv2.mim?dl=0

[dhaval patel]

http://www.vishalon.net/PramukhIME/Windows.aspx with Hindi as Language would place akAra at the end automatially. Also other languages are available for free.

If that is what we want to achieve.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S

Collector and District Magistrate, Anand

www.sanskritworld.in

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

2015-06-19 3:01 GMT-07:00 dhaval patel <drdhav...@gmail.com>:

http://www.vishalon.net/PramukhIME/Windows.aspx with Hindi as Language would place akAra at the end automatially.

​​Not exactly. We do that already.​

​Instead, to type कलम, instead of typing kamala​ or kamal (in HindI), one would simply type kml!

 

Also other languages are available for free.

If that is what we want to achieve.

​This is about the Linux package m17n-db , so Windows software is useless as far as we're concerned.

[dhaval patel]

​Instead, to type कलम, instead of typing kamala​ or kamal (in HindI), one would simply type kml!

That is already available there.
 

This is about the Linux package m17n-db , so Windows software is useless as far as we're concerned.

OK. Best of luck.

If you wish to get in touch with the developer, I can put a word across.

He is quite helpful.

Maybe you may get some more insight.

Logic would remain the same, only the way of expression differs in different languages.

[Shreevatsa R]

1. This is an excellent idea, using statistics to make input easier. Do you have statistics for consonant+(non-a vowels), too? This seems a third category, to compare against consonant + a, and consonant + virama.

2. This is the URL on the other list, for anyone who wants to follow along: https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/m17n-list/2015-06/threads.html

3. It is pretty horrifying that "a" produces virama! (That "shnakr" for शङ्कर is "yet phonetically intuitive" is a stretch.) Please consider using, say, "." for virama before foisting such an abomination on the world. :-)

4. It might have been better to share the file in some way that is easier to access, e.g. put it on github or simply attach to the email. Multiple times when I wasn't at my laptop I opened this email and tried to read the .mim file on my phone, but Dropbox's mobile site wanted me install the app to read it so I lost interest in trying harder (e.g "request desktop version" which often doesn't work).

5. I generally use HK and haven't bothered with itrans etc. which use special symbols ~ and the like, but I'll give this a try sometime this weekend. (I'm not currently using Linux, but MacUIM which uses M17NLib so it works on the same set of .mim files... will let you know if I get this to work. You might also consider starting with HK or even slp1 or some such simpler format which has fewer non-terminal states in its state machine, and making just the "implicit a" change.)

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

2015-06-20 11:55 GMT-07:00 Shreevatsa R <shree...@gmail.com>:

1. This is an excellent idea, using statistics to make input easier. Do you have statistics for consonant+(non-a vowels), too? This seems a third category, to compare against consonant + a, and consonant + virama.

​Suffice to say - far fewer than ​either of them. ( I'd included frequency of आ in the spreadsheet - one only needs to combine that with http://www.amritas.com/101023.htm#10232357 )

 

​

3. It is pretty horrifying that "a" produces virama! (That "shnakr" for शङ्कर is "yet phonetically intuitive" is a stretch.) Please consider using, say, "." for virama before foisting such an abomination on the world. :-)

​Good point!

Some additional factors:
* Alternating between "a" and virAma​ is actually quite common, though ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InScript_keyboard ) is an example. 
* Plus, 'a' is in a very strategic position on the keyboard, it's too tempting. But perhaps ; is better. 

​

 

4. It might have been better to share the file in some way that is easier to access, e.g. put it on github or simply attach to the email. Multiple times when I wasn't at my laptop I opened this email and tried to read the .mim file on my phone, but Dropbox's mobile site wanted me install the app to read it so I lost interest in trying harder (e.g "request desktop version" which often doesn't work).

Thanks for letting me know! Done - https://github.com/sanskrit-coders/m17n-db/blob/master/MIM/hi-optitransv2.mim​

 

5. I generally use HK and haven't bothered with itrans etc. which use special symbols ~ and the like, but I'll give this a try sometime this weekend. (I'm not currently using Linux, but MacUIM which uses M17NLib so it works on the same set of .mim files... will let you know if I get this to work.

​Thanks!!​

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

​(bcc: sanskrit-programmers)

​

2015-06-22 8:17 GMT-07:00 विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) <vishvas...@gmail.com>:

I updated hi-optitransv2.mim, and was able to test it with m17-edit. The file seems syntactically correct, but part that doesn't work is dependent vowels. ki gets converted to कइ

​Fixed that and ​updated hi-optitransv2.mim. I belive this version is ready to be submitted.

[Shreevatsa R]

Haven't looked at the code, but just curious whether you have thought about these questions: 

does "aphr" produce अपहर or अफर ? Similarly, if "sh" produces "श", how do you input सह ?

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

2015-06-22 22:43 GMT-07:00 Shreevatsa R <shree...@gmail.com>:

Haven't looked at the code, but just curious whether you have thought about these questions: 

does "aphr" produce अपहर or अफर ? Similarly, if "sh" produces "श", how do you input सह ?

​Just updated the map.

[2] in the below note should answer your question:

1. panchama-varNa-s of vyanjana-varga-s 

  nnk->ङ्क, nnkh->ङ्ख, nng->ङ्ग, nngh->ङ्घ

  nnch->ञ्च, nnCh->ञ्छ, nnc->ञ्च, nnC->ञ्छ,

2. Any common consonant, typed twice, yields that consonant with the virAma. The rationale is that a repeated consonant such as नन and दद are far less common than these consonants with a virAma, such as न् and द्.

3. The rare character sequences that conflict with shortcuts for more frequently occuring strings can be typed using the "commit key" - (Ctrl + Shift  + Enter), or with the use of the arrow key. 

For example, sh yields श. But if one wanted to type सह, one can type: s<Commit key>h or s<left arrow, right arrow>h.

Examples:

kml or kamala - कमल 

sikkta - सिक्त

shn;kr  or shankara or shnnkr- शङ्कर।

sn;cit or snncit - सञ्चित

s<Commit key>h or s<left arrow, right arrow>h - सह

​

[ken p]

Mr.Vasukij,

Why not post a Sanskrit text in  OPTITRANS and compare with IAST ?

Let us see how it displays.

[Mārcis Gasūns]

On Friday, 19 June 2015 04:07:44 UTC+3, विश्वासो वासुकिजः wrote:

(driven by the observation from Sanskrit that the "consonant followed by virama" pattern occurs far fewer times than the "consonant followed by a" pattern - ie. क् is rarer than क), I created the attached file.

Open syllables are 18.5 times more popular in Sanskrit - as per my PhD thesis.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

​That contradicts my statistical observation from mahAbhArata[1], and my experience. I suspect that you made a mistake, and this is the first time someone's pointing it out. ​

​Here's ​how you can confirm [1] for yourself:
Count the number of occurrences of ् https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sanskrit-coders/sanskrit-stats/master/dev/mbh.txt

​Compare it with the number of cases where the a-mAtrA is found after a consonant, which can be done by seeking the regular expression pattern  ​[^aāiīuūeoṛṝḷḹ]a in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sanskrit-coders/sanskrit-stats/master/iast/mbh.txt .

[Shreevatsa R]

I think the two of you are talking of different things.

I am not sure how an "open syllable" is defined. But I think something like "pra" will count as just an open syllable (and contribute 0 to the count of the "other"), while if we're counting virāma vs other vowels, it will count as 1 virāma (with p) and one a-vowel (with r).

[Mārcis Gasūns]

One does not use devanagari to count open syllables. Shreevatsa is righ - pra is just one open syllable.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

Vishvas Ji,

Is there any IME or keyboard layout which supports the Vedic accents in Devanagari extended and Vedic Extensions Unicode range?

>On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:42:28 PM UTC+5:30, विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) wrote: > ​(bcc: sanskrit-programmers) > ​ > > 2015-06-22 8:17 GMT-07:00 विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) <vishva...@gmail.com>: > > > I updated hi-optitransv2.mim, and was able to test it with m17-edit. The file seems syntactically correct, but part that doesn't work is dependent vowels. ki gets converted to कइ > > > > ​Fixed that and ​updated hi-optitransv2.mim. I belive this version is ready to be submitted. > > > > -- > > -- > Vishvas /विश्वासः

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

For windows? I don't use that operating system. But check out bhAShAIME .

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/5daa96a3-6c23-4d40-a048-d1c8feec0ebc%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Paramvivekdas Sadhu]

You can make any custom layout using msklc (Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-in/download/details.aspx?id=22339 

I have made one that includes Vedic accents. gmail won't let me attach it here as the package contains exe files to install, but I have attached the layout template that I have used. Using this you can easily recreate it.

Hope this helps.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgGH9m6VsjrX%3DJGH9FvCXT25BaRqcewWiWTeBZtpQvaqVg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

Thank you so much for the layout template with vedic accents.

 I had also experimented with msklc by customizing the vidyut keyboard on similar lines. 

However the person who needs the layout uses gedit on Ubuntu with ITRANS mapping, hence I was trying to to find out about alternatives.

I also came across keyman in my search yesterday and will try to experiment with that as well.

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sanskrit-programmers/wd5sZU1pBAA/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAHPbngqW-uuMOpVfzqT7A7-dup1z09oTLiCzwU8EHGADu%3DBATw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Paramvivekdas Sadhu]

keyman is a very good software. Now free for all to use. Keyboard creation is easy and has many more features than msklc.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAG2NduU%2BuaM95NL4H2oMwJOLqqGYCmGuxHa9G55sxOR_cGFDDg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

My first draft of Sanskrit Vedic keyboard using Keyman is available at https://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/sanskritvedic.html for testing.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

FYI

Submitted to Keyman Cloud

 https://keyman.com/keyboards/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

Thanks for the update! As an aside https://www.sil.org/about , which bought and released Keyman for free use on all platforms, is a Christian faith based organization (which thankfully does not seem to be directly into proselytization.)

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAG2NduXn17CtoTfOi6S9BacPoB%2B59_WrummGf5MdTLRz0OpDjw%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Shreevatsa R]

I had mentioned it in passing earlier :-)

SIL is also responsible for the Graphite font format, for the well-designed (for their time anyway) Gentium and Charis SIL fonts, for the initial development of the XeTeX typesetting system (see initial part of interview of Jonathan Kew), and for the SIL Ethnologue, which is often either better than census data or the only source of data on the number of speakers of certain languages etc.

This all ties in with the broader proselytization mission of addressing vulnerable populations (or "unreached peoples") in their native languages. Similar to Kittel/Moegling and the Basel Mission Press in Kannada, the Boden Chair / Monier-Williams in Sanskrit, etc. We can still use the fruits of their labour.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgEy6Zo7Ok8WEBh1EtsQ%2BUxqFAt53SO5%3DqSBg-v0dag5%3Dw%40mail.gmail.com.

[ken p]

https://keymanweb.com/?_ga=2.68512914.240863873.1558303598-978164871.1558303598#sa-Deva,Keyboard_itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic
Kumar,
I did try this on my I-pad . Works fine. I will let you know if there is any defect. If possible show English letters in red or bold in black.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

Thanks, The keyboard generation for different platforms was done by the Keyman team based on the source uploaded by me.

I have submitted similar keyboards for Hindi and Gujarati also. Those have not been reviewed/merged yet. I will appreciate feedback on those too, I will add them to the online version on sanskritdocuments.

It seems that some key combinations are not working under Linux. I have only tested in Windows10. If there are any suggestions or restrictions for Linux, please let me know.

Shree

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sanskrit-programmers/wd5sZU1pBAA/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/ed1521c5-b898-44fb-a9a3-fbfd8db5fa2a%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

____________________________________________________________
भजन - कीर्तन - आरती @ http://bhajans.ramparivar.com

[ken p]

Submitted to Keyman Cloud

 https://keyman.com/keyboards/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic

Kumar,

Upon clicking above link I see this tool. This online tool works fine on I-pad But not on Apple Mac. I can't type Sanskrit words on apple Mac. why?  

Online tools

Use keyboard online

Use Vedic Sanskrit Devanagari (ITRANS) online

Use Vedic Sanskrit Devanagari (ITRANS) in your web browser. No need to install anything.

itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

PS ken: the contributor is named shridevi and is a female (and not a male named kumAr)

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/e0661e4b-b714-4370-a687-1f049961baa5%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[ken p]

I thought Kumar is last name.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 3:01 PM ken p <drk...@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought Kumar is last name.

Even if it is a last name (ie husband's or father's name ), it is still bizarre to address a woman by a masculine name without prefixing Mrs or Miss.

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/50cdd2e2-feba-44af-a058-b74e054b5268%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[ken p]

Ok,

Thanks.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

namaste

i am currently stuck with a windows computer so decided to try keyman. seems like i cannot type idam astu to get a makaara - I keep getting an anusvaara -  इदं अस्तु, which is incorrect per sanskrit vyAkaraNa rules. could you fix please and point to the source

[Shree Devi Kumar]

idam^ for explicit virama

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sanskrit-programmers/wd5sZU1pBAA/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgEW-DCe7Z%3D6uH0SHfLE_DyYLR%2BzMaRL6C-p%2B9%2Bq-ofRBg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Shree Devi Kumar]

> keep getting an anusvaara -  इदं अस्तु, which is incorrect per sanskrit vyAkaraNa rules.

source - https://github.com/Shreeshrii/keyboards/blob/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic/release/itrans/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic/source/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic.kmn#L355

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sanskrit-programmers/wd5sZU1pBAA/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgEW-DCe7Z%3D6uH0SHfLE_DyYLR%2BzMaRL6C-p%2B9%2Bq-ofRBg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

I see thanks- the implicit akaara deletion may not be a good idea for use with an sanskrit "itrans" IME - there should be  a configuration option - a "hindi mode" which one can turn on in the UI. Is that simple with keyman?

Could you also offer guidance on how to use the latest fixed map on a Windows 10 machine (assuming you're a windows user)? I only see some javascript file in C:\ProgramData\Keyman\Keyman Engine\Keyboard\_Package\itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic which I presume is built from the source you pointed to.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAG2NduWTCR%3DbLa_32V3%3DEcwxqiZxr6PfAqPaoxRM8LyLEBrKeA%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:21 PM विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote:

I see thanks- the implicit akaara deletion may not be a good idea for use with an sanskrit "itrans" IME - there should be  a configuration option - a "hindi mode" which one can turn on in the UI. Is that simple with keyman?

I have only now started experimenting with keyman. I think there is a way to set configuration option in the UI. I will have to take a look.

Could you also offer guidance on how to use the latest fixed map on a Windows 10 machine (assuming you're a windows user)? I only see some javascript file in C:\ProgramData\Keyman\Keyman Engine\Keyboard\_Package\itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic which I presume is built from the source you pointed to.

The javascript is used by the web version of keyman. The other options require a keyman product to be installed - see https://keyman.com/keyboards/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic

Keyman cloud has not yet been updated with my recent changes. But you can download the package file from https://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic.kmp

and js from https://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/itrans_devanagari_sanskrit_vedic.js

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgEMwJ3RYr58acOr3Z9sP%3DbG9jKkE3VCLLFBo%2B6pFrmrTg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have submitted a PR for it - https://github.com/Shreeshrii/keyboards/commit/dd89228ce83785cb544a40bd44f7961db27ff541

implicit akaara deletion will be done only in Hindi mode which is activated by RCTRL RALT 1.

RCTRL RALT 0 will reset it back to default. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAFY6qgEMwJ3RYr58acOr3Z9sP%3DbG9jKkE3VCLLFBo%2B6pFrmrTg%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:06 AM Shree Devi Kumar <shree...@gmail.com> wrote:

Vishvas Ji,

Is there any IME or keyboard layout which supports the Vedic accents in Devanagari extended and Vedic Extensions Unicode range?

I am curious what vedic text you wanted to get typed - because, in case you were looking at sAmaveda Archikas, I have a copy from P Ramanujan's site  - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i9bwxddGlDmCXBeggauIBWo2Crw8_lV_8Jxfn-86iHk/edit#gid=0

 

>On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:42:28 PM UTC+5:30, विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) wrote: > (bcc: sanskrit-programmers) > > > 2015-06-22 8:17 GMT-07:00 विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) <vishva...@gmail.com>: > > > I updated hi-optitransv2.mim, and was able to test it with m17-edit. The file seems syntactically correct, but part that doesn't work is dependent vowels. ki gets converted to कइ > > > > Fixed that and updated hi-optitransv2.mim. I belive this version is ready to be submitted. > > > > -- > > -- > Vishvas /विश्वासः

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sanskrit-programmers" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sanskrit-program...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/5daa96a3-6c23-4d40-a048-d1c8feec0ebc%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Shree Devi Kumar]

FYI

I have created a few more keyman layouts, using a modified ITRANS input scheme. It is not uniform across languages. 

Current list is: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi and other languages written in Devanagari, Vedic Sanskrit  and Indic Romanization which supports multiple output schemes. I will add more languages over time.

Special Thanks to Ken P for suggestions and feedback.

https://keyman.com/keyboards?q=itrans&x=0&y=0