Sanskrit wordle anyone?

[Naresh Cuntoor]

I'm seeing Kannada version getting some user engagement. Anyone program a Sanskrit version of wordle yet?

Naresh

[Shreevatsa R]

It would be nice if someone did!

At https://rwmpelstilzchen.gitlab.io/wordles/ I see a "Sanskrit Wordle" listed, but it (https://skalyan91.github.io/wordle-sanskrit/) is actually Pali.

Looking at some of the other Indian languages, they make quite a few interesting choices for how to define a "5-letter word" (or whatever different length they use):

- The above Pali one uses Roman transliteration, and defines each vowel / consonant as a separate letter, e.g. "puṅkha" is 5 letters p - u - ṅ - kh - a.

- Some of the ones use each syllable as a separate letter, but give different hints for the vowel being right, the consonant being right, (one of the consonants being right?), etc.

- Some give the vowels already, and only ask the player to guess the consonants.

While playing some of these, I found it much harder than in English to think of a "5-letter word" (or whatever) in that sense… may just be my poor vocabulary, or it may be that because we generally don't count letters the same way, it's harder to recall them.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 08:05, Naresh Cuntoor <nare...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm seeing Kannada version getting some user engagement. Anyone program a Sanskrit version of wordle yet?

Naresh

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[Naresh Cuntoor]

Seems like an extension of the Kannada version to devanagari (Sanskrit) should be straightforward..

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[Hrishikesh Terdalkar]

Namaste,

I think the primary issue isn't architectural, but that of coming up with a "good" set of conventions.

As Shreevatsa pointed out, it is hard to think of "puṅkha" as a 5 letter word.

In general, if I were making a "sensible" Wordle for "Sanskrit" (and not trying to just replace English vocabulary with Sanskrit IAST vocabulary), I would, first and foremost, want the vocabulary corresponding to N letter (syllable) words "in" Sanskrit, e.g. करोति, कमल, लक्ष्मण etc. for N = 3.

Case 2 mentioned by Shreevatsa seems close to this,

"Some of the ones use each syllable as a separate letter, but give different hints for the vowel being right, the consonant being right, (one of the consonants being right?), etc."

However, this could potentially require many hints, since instead of (letter, position) we add (at least one) extra dimension, On the first consideration, suppose we have 3 dimensions, (vowel, consonant, position), each can be correct or incorrect.

So 2^3 - 1 = 7 hints, excluding the two cases (which don't make sense) that of (incorrect vowel, incorrect consonant, correct/incorrect position), merging them into single "incorrect" hint.

There are of course more possibilities, since a syllable can contain correct vowel from another position and correct consonant from another position. (eġ. if the word was करोति) and we guess (तक्षक), here, correct consonant त् is present in the incorrect position, correct vowel अ present in the correct location. At the same time, correct consonant+vowel combination present in the incorrect position.

Next we can consider 4 dimensions (vowel, vowel-position, consonant, consonant-position), already our required hint set goes up.

If we consider all the cases and have an exhaustive set of 15-20 hint rules that are consistent etc, the sheer number of hints would make it not-fun.

If we omit certain possibilities, there could always be a non-trivial subset of players who don't like the conventions, or find it hard to think of the conventions as "natural".

That is where  Option 3 mentioned by Shreevatsa sounds less complicated, give the vowels, and make it a guessing game on consonants only. Then, the only problem that remains is of multiple consonants. We can again make simplification choices here, to limit words to single or double consonant letters. If this seems to reduce the size of vocabulary, we could add inflections as valid words too.

Once we have a set of conventions finalized, the path forward is simpler.

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[Arnab Bhattacharya]

Dear Hrishikesh,

The characterization by you is quite nice.

I would say the first version can be simply Option 3 in your email.

Let it be a 3-consonant wordle, with vowels correctly filled in. The Hindi wordle, by the way, does exactly that.

We can limit to each blanks being a single non-conjunct consonant.

If we want conjunct consonants such as तक्षक , we can use 4 blanks, with the second blank being marked with a halant to indicate that the second and third together forma conjunct.

The same strategy can be used for anusvara and visarga. They can be treated like vowel markings.

Thank you.

Regards,

Arnab

বুধ, ২ মার্চ, ২০২২ তারিখে ২:৪০ AM টায় তারিখে Hrishikesh Terdalkar <terdalk...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

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--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Shreevatsa R]

The Kannada Wordle that Naresh referred to is this one: https://wordalla.online/ (source code here).

It uses 6 hint types. (Option 2)

Naresh mentioned it seems to be popular, which we may take as validation that its design choices probably make sense.

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[Naresh Cuntoor]

The svara, vyanjana and placement hints in Kannada wordle can easily apply to Sanskrit as well. The Kannada version has two options - 4-letter or 5-letter words. The 4-letter game seems more doable. Maybe it is a lack of practice, the 5-letter game in Kannada seems much more difficult.

Naresh

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[Arnab Bhattacharya]

The Sanskrit wordle at https://skalyan91.github.io/wordle-sanskrit/ is throwing the error "That isn't in the PED" for even simple words such as "karma".

Is it under maintenance?

Regards,

Arnab

বৃহস্পতি, ৩ মার্চ, ২০২২ তারিখে ১১:২৫ AM টায় তারিখে Naresh Cuntoor <nare...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

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--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Shreevatsa R]

It's Pali, not Sanskrit (as mentioned in this thread / on the webpage). Try "kamma".

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[Arnab Bhattacharya]

Sorry, I missed that.

Regards,

Arnab

মঙ্গল, ৮ মার্চ, ২০২২ তারিখে ১০:০৫ PM টায় তারিখে Shreevatsa R <shree...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

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--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Arnab Bhattacharya]

By the way, should it not then be called Pali wordle instead of Sanskrit wordle, and listed that way as well?

Regards,

Arnab

বৃহস্পতি, ১০ মার্চ, ২০২২ তারিখে ৮:৫৪ AM টায় তারিখে Arnab Bhattacharya <arnabbha...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Sriram Durbha]

It might be more natural ( and fun ) to provide a गण  from छन्दस् instead of an arbitrary metric for length of word based on a transliteration.  

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[Arindam Saha]

Hello everyone!

Surely, I am almost 3 years late to the party... But if anyone is still interested, Here is a simple Sanskrit wordle app that I just created:

https://sanskrit-wordle.streamlit.app/

It takes words from the amarakosha.

Please try it. All feedback is welcome. :)

Regards

Arindam Saha

[Swarnadip Mitra]

Thanks and congratulations. Great work. Will try it out.

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[karthika]

>>>>>>> <https://github.com/amoghaUdupa/word-guessing-game>).

>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAJskDbJZWGRsVUAM%3D9iKUpPYFbU3ztOtS30yXVPR4WTEqxPubg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .

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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Arnab Bhattacharya
>>>>>>>> arnabbha...@gmail.com
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>>>
>>>
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>>> Arnab Bhattacharya
>>> arnabbha...@gmail.com
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
>>
Fantastic. Fun to play. Thank you for this.
--
Karthika N J
PhD student
(Teaching Assistant),
TCS Research Scholar,
CSE, IIT Bombay.

[Arnab Bhattacharya]

Very good.

Thank you!

Three points:

1. It will be good to show a list of consonants and vowels greyed out.

2. It will be good to handle words like जगत् that end with a halanta-marker.

3. An archive of past games to play.

Regards,

Arnab

রবি, ২৪ নভে, ২০২৪ তারিখে ৭:৫৫ PM টায় তারিখে 'karthika' via sanskrit-programmers <sanskrit-p...@googlegroups.com> লিখেছেন:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/6cb8b4094cc477cbc9545cd39d3cf127%40cse.iitb.ac.in.

--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Arindam Saha]

Dear Prof. Bhattacharyya,

Thank you for trying out the game. Regarding your points

1. This is a very good idea. I will definitely implement it in the upcoming versions of the app. I am not too good at UI/UX though... Any help on that front would be greatly appreciated.

2. I don't think I understand your point completely. There already are halanta words in the game. The word जगत् is a two अक्षर word. Do you mean assistance in typing such a word?

3. That will be added soon. A login feature will also be added to see the previous games and sores and leaderboards.

Thanks again for your interest and appreciation.

Regards

Arindam Saha

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Dr. Arindam Saha

Senior Research Data Scientist

Advanced Research Computing Centre

University College London

[Arnab Bhattacharya]

Thank you!

Point 2: I meant that an ending halanta is not allowed. This should be made clear.

Some more points:

4. If there is only one अ-कार in the word such as भावुक, and somebody guesses कमल, it śhows one green and two orange. Ideally, it should just show the one green at the correct place, and grey/none for the others.

Otherwise, it is a bit confusing.

5. Finally, the word list can be enhanced by generating lots of words using declension rules. It disallowed me हसन्ति.

Congratulations once more on the great job!

The more I play, the more I like.

Thank you.

Regards,

Arnab

বৃহস্পতি, ২৮ নভে, ২০২৪ তারিখে ১১:২৫ PM টায় তারিখে Arindam Saha <arindam...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

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--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Arindam Saha]

Thanks for the reply!

Regarding point 2, I think halanta words are allowed. Be careful though, a word like जगत् is only considered 2 aksharas. A word like हनूमत् which is a 3 akshara word, should be allowed.

Could you please let me know if it doesn't allow a valid 3 akshara halanta word. There might be a bug in the code.

Point 4 will be implemented soon (by the end of the next week for sure).

Point 5 seems more long term. I am working on word generation using panini's rules but it will take some time for sure. Do you know of any resources that might help me in that direction?

Regards

Arindam Saha

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[Arnab Bhattacharya]

Great!

I will try out.

For point 5, I believe @Hrishikesh Terdalkar can join the conversation.

We built a Telegram bot for Vyakarana that lists a lot of subnata and tinanta forms.

That list may be input.

Thank you.

Regards,

Arnab

শুক্র, ২৯ নভে, ২০২৪ তারিখে ২:৪৩ PM টায় তারিখে Arindam Saha <arindam...@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:

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--

Arnab Bhattacharya
arnabbha...@gmail.com

[Ryan Armstrong]

नमस्ते 

Excellent!
I am enjoying immensely!
One thing - on the colour scheme, point 1 and 2.
It seems to me that the svara is on the right and the vyanjana on the left of the cell.

Is this correct - you have it the other way round in the instructions.

Regards

Ryan

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--

Regards

Ryan Armstrong
+27 82 852 7787
rya...@gmail.com

[Arindam Saha]

Namaste,

You are absolutely correct. The right is the svara and left is vyanjana.

It was a typo and has been fixed.

Thanks for pointing it out.

I am glad that you are enjoying the game!

Regards

Arindam Saha

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sanskrit-programmers/CAJ5boGwTOk0Q3HEA--HTYN%3DzYBx-sWqcusxQUYPpq5jH%3DDgSVw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Hrishikesh Terdalkar]

The word lists can be generated using Prof. Huet's Sanskrit Heritage platform.

You can use my Python wrapper for it (install using `pip install heritage`)

and then do

import heritage

H = heritage.HeritagePlatform()

H.get_declensions('राम', 'm', False)

which will output

[[['रामः'], ['रामौ'], ['रामाः']],

 [['रामम्'], ['रामौ'], ['रामान्']],

 [['रामेण'], ['रामाभ्याम्'], ['रामैः', 'रामेभिः']],

 [['रामाय'], ['रामाभ्याम्'], ['रामेभ्यः']],

 [['रामात्'], ['रामाभ्याम्'], ['रामेभ्यः']],

 [['रामस्य'], ['रामयोः'], ['रामाणाम्']],

 [['रामे'], ['रामयोः'], ['रामेषु']],

 [['राम'], ['रामौ'], ['रामाः']]]

We can of course flatten this list

def flatten(l):

    '''Deep flatten any iterable'''

    for el in l:

        if (isinstance(el, Iterable) and not isinstance(el, (str, bytes))):

            yield from flatten(el)

        else:

            yield el

And then,

forms = list(flatten(H.get_declensions(word, gender, headers=False)))

You may check documentation at https://heritage-py.readthedocs.io/en/latest/heritage.html#heritage.heritage.HeritagePlatform.get_declensions

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Hrishikesh

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Hrishikesh Terdalkar

LIRIS Research Lab

Claude Bernard University Lyon 1

France

Homepage: https://hrishikeshrt.github.io