Quantum theory and consciousness
Kartik Subbarao
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/can-science-explain-the-s_b_675107.html
Some excerpts:
=====
What is the universe composed of? If we were to shrink in size, smaller
and smaller, we would see that atoms are mostly empty, as is the space
between them. If we shrink smaller and smaller, 25 orders of magnitude
smaller than atoms, we would eventually come to Planck scale geometry,
laden with information and patterns around the Planck length of 10 to
the minus 33rd power centimeters....We do know that Planck scale
information is down there. And despite the vast difference in scale, it
can influence our world, as spacetime is organized like a hologram, or
fractal, with information repeating nonlocally and at different scales.
Penrose concluded [that Planck scale separations] are unstable, and will
undergo quantum state reduction due to an objective threshold inherent
in Planck scale geometry (hence objective reduction, 'OR'). Moreover he
proposed that the choices of such OR self-collapses are not random, but
influenced by what he termed Platonic information embedded in Planck
scale geometry. Such information includes mathematical truth, as well as
aesthetic and ethical values. Further, each such event, he concluded, is
a moment of conscious awareness. Thus Penrose connected consciousness to
the most basic level of the universe.
[...]
The yogi's state of complete immersion in the ground state of
consciousness is called Samadhi, an immersion from which all ancient
spiritual knowledge was obtained. Perhaps this corresponds with
consciousness moving deeply, near to the source of Vedic and Platonic
values, with highest frequency, intensity and resolution.
The notion of wisdom, truth and consciousness embedded in the universe
has roots in both East and West. The seers or rishis of ancient India
detected these values through actual experience. Socrates, speaking for
Plato, uses his teacher, Diotima, as his authority for experience of
subtler domains of consciousness. If Penrose is correct, these ancients
discovered quantum information embedded in Planck scale geometry.
[...]
We agree that observer, observed, and the process of observation,
already linked in physics since the time of Bohr and Einstein, will
surrender their differences. In the end, to say that the ocean of
consciousness (or proto-consciousness) permeates everything is to say
that there is only one consciousness (or proto-consciousness).
It is artificial to believe, as science has done since Bohr's conscious
observer, that the individual has a privileged position outside the
ocean in which everything is embedded. Perhaps the only people who will
shrug and say this was obvious all along are the poets. As Rumi wrote
almost 800 years ago, "I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to
know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the
inside!"
=====
Pramod
something like 218 billion years the Earth will die out due to the
increasing power of the Sun in which the Sun will eventually explode.
But, that in itself is still our one planet Earth.
By then, I am sure that scientists will figure out how to get onto a
neighboring planet with Earth-like conditions to ensure the survival
of our species, however, this planet is currently out of reach (the
name escapes me at the moment).
There are other life forms out there, and all are connected. It is
through this awareness and feeling that all life is connected that
enlightenment occurs. No life is more insignificant as another, and
all life forms are created equal.
Pramod
On Aug 10, 9:58 am, Kartik Subbarao <subba...@computer.org> wrote:
> Interesting article from Deepak Chopra and Stuart Hameroff:
>
Kartik Subbarao
billion years left before the Sun becomes too hot to support terrestrial
life on Earth (as a main sequence star, its luminosity increases 10%
every billion years). But I'm an optimist -- I think we'll have
something figured out by then :-)
Welcome to the list Pramod!
-Kartik
naga narayana
Consciousness … The Soul … Quantum Leap …
We take images of the physical phenomena into our brain. But, we cannot retain the actual phenomena in the memory since the parameters available within the cognitive domain within is not the same as those available in the physical domain around. Therefore, we translate the physical phenomena into certain cognitive images to facilitate the communion between the two worlds. Our philosophers simply called these Naama (name), Roopa (shape) and Karma (action). Currently these three basic parameters are being categorized and sub-categorized into many perceived sub-entities in the name of matter, energy, force, gravity ... and quantum thanks to the spurt in the growth of science. However, one thing remains the same … the only way of maintaining confidence in one's perception is to perpetually compare the physical phenomena to the perceived one!
One would simulate the observed physical phenomena in terms of the parameters perceived within one’s brain (the thoughts churned within, the information processed within and across the extended media such as computers, and the information borrowed from the external world) till an “acceptably consistent” experience is generated within regarding the phenomena around. The consistency between the two would provide confidence in the perceiver who can (and most often will) then claim an understanding of the phenomena as such; sign off a note within that the transaction with the world around is successfully completed; and let the whole experience permeate into the sediments of one’s junkyard of memory. This happens in every being every moment in all the transactions one would go with. Different beings articulate the same confidence in terms of their own familiarity and through their own media of communication they are trained with.
Science always opts to observe the universe in terms of smaller blocks - be it particular or quantum - since the human intellect tends to believe that the smaller objects can be subjected to one’s observations and experimented with in better clarity than the bigger objects. Of course, science makes tremendous progress and impact in the field of its relevance ... be it Newtonian mechanics or Quantum Physics. But, as a true scientist would instantly acknowledge, all the understanding would verily remain as "mere theories" being rooted within two invalidated basis - the self as well as the world! Whatever we know - on the self as well as the world - is through an extremely transitory and volatile media of sensorial signals which do not seem to stay with either even for a moment - IndriyaaNaam prithagbhaavamudayaastamayou cha!
If you are thinking of spirituality, the core target is to break this sensorial barrier that seem to reign the domain of so called knowledge in terms of perceived and correlated images of the phenomenal worlds around and within. It does not matter whether we are looking at anything - even a dew drop ... it does not matter whether we are fragmenting the observed phenomenon in terms of simple names, shapes and actions or in terms of complex mathematical models of Newtonian discretization or take a quantum leap from thereof ... it does not matter whether we articulate what we seem to have understood in terms of one sensorial signal or the other ... the fact remains true that the thing - even a dew drop - is never completely understood.
Even the so-called understanding one seem to be confident with remains volatile in my opinion since it depends completely on the phenomenal agreement between the object and sensorial mechanism one is graced with. Just because they seem to show consistency in their behavior patterns, can I take the understanding for granted and complete?! If that was the case, Science would have closed its shop long ago!! ... rather, it would not have opened its shop in the first place!!!
That is why, our Upanishads are extremely cautious when it comes to The Absolute Knowledge … they caution only one thing … DO NOT DEPEND ON YOUR SENSORIAL APPRECIATION FOR THIS! OF COURSE, USE YOUR SENSORIAL DEPTH OF UNDERSTANDING THE WORLDS AROUND AND WITHIN TO NEGATE THE APPRECIATION RATHER THAN ATTEMPTING TO BIND THE APPRECIATION WITH THE SAME. Any effort otherwise, reminds me of Duryodhana's attempt to bind Lord KrishNa in his father's court. The ego wants to "understand" The Absolute as the idea perpetually remains alien to itself ... we all know how an ego can never tolerate any alien around! But we mostly do not understand is how ego alone generates the aliens around to keep its post intact!! It simply cannot realize that the appreciation remains distant until it exists! Because, ego's fundamental property is to match making ... between the phenomenal and perceived worlds. Its very survival depends on this job ... correlating the images stored in terms of perceived parameters and the objects manifested in terms of physical dimensions. It believes that the world will fall apart once this correlation stops ... because, it cannot exist then ... after all, job security is at stake here!
Duryodhana tried using mystical powers claimed to available then … Deepak Chopra attempts now in terms of some sophisticated tools of knowledge available today … THE FACT remains the same … KrishNa is unbindable in terms of any … cosmic as well as quantum … as IS and as EVER …
ANoraNeeyaan mahato maheeyaan aatmaasya jantornihitam guhaayaam |
Tamakratuh pashyati veetashokah dhaatuprasaadanmahimaanamaatmanah ||
The Self (Aatman) as well as The Universe (Brahman) are (and will remain) subtler than the subtlest that can ever be thought of as well as grosser than the grossest that can be ever fathomed. The fellow who remains aloof to the phenomenal and perceptional variance cannot be altered by any - be it cosmic or particular or even quantum - in spite of all these being generated within the same. How can one ever define something that cannot be altered by any?! Only the one who can transcend the emotional and relational limitations of one's appreciation can ever have a true appreciation of THAT. How can one ever do that? … by appreciating THAT everywhere through ITS very own graceful manifestation around in the physical world as well as within in the perceived world … till all attempts for discrimination around and within drop to a void … till the urge to to alienate oneself from the rest evaporates …
Respects.
Naga Narayana.
Kartik Subbarao
> I tried to digest Deepak Chopra's treatise on quantum mechanics to
> resolve the understanding of the soul, after-death experience, etc. I
> am not an expert in Quantum Mechanics ... but, this is my take on any
> such attempts ...
I like your analogy of Duryodhana attempting to bind Krishna -- it's a
powerful image for the pitfalls of scientism and any other approach that
would seek to reduce the Infinite to the finite.
I think that Deepak Chopra actually has the opposite problem. He has a
tendency to become attached to *preventing* others from binding Krishna.
He pits himself against skeptics and uses that contrast/polarity to
drive a debate. The problem is when he identifies too much with his role
as a debater and loses perspective. He forgets that Krishna doesn't
_need_ any help to free himself from the ropes.
By and large though, I think Deepak has contributed a lot of valuable
content. He has helped to build bridges between the worlds of science
and religion.
One of my favorite parts of the Bhagavad Gita is where Krishna
illustrates that he is the essence in everything, with several examples:
"I am the radiance of the Moon and the Sun. I am the warmth in the fire,
I am the splendor of the splendid, etc". If this research pans out, I
can easily envision another verse: "I am the planck-scale spacetime
geometry of the microtubules in the brain" :-) Yet another gem to string
on the infinite thread.
Regards,
-Kartik
naga narayana
Again ... WONDERFUL OBSERVATION ... that is a good whip for me! Look at it ... unfortunately our attention is often on the ropes rather than Lord KrishNa even during the so-called spiritual contemplation ... Deepak is not the only one ... none of us are exception to that either :(. See! Arrogance, even when applied against another arrogance, cannot be anything but the arrogance as such!! Thank You ... for the gentle whip. I appreciate it.
Kartik Subbarao
> But, *its danger is in its potential for arrogance* to turn its apparent
> success over the ignorance toward THE ONE that cannot be addressed as
> such. That is the basis for Shankara's principle of NETI...as I
> understand.
Agreed. Neti is a powerful tool that helps us loosen our attachments to
the conceptualizations of THE ONE that we carry around. As long as there
is a subject that can say "not this" to an object, it's not THAT.
> >>"I am the planck-scale spacetime geometry of the microtubules in the
> brain"
> WONDERFUL!
> >>He forgets that Krishna doesn't _need_ any help to free himself from
> the ropes.
>
> Again ... WONDERFUL OBSERVATION ... that is a good whip for me! Look
> at it ... unfortunately our attention is often on the ropes rather than
> Lord KrishNa even during the so-called spiritual contemplation ...
> Deepak is not the only one ... none of us are exception to that either
> :(. See! Arrogance, even when applied against another arrogance, cannot
> be anything but the arrogance as such!! Thank You ... for the gentle
> whip. I appreciate it.
I need to remind myself of this too :-) I have had countless "debates"
with people where, one way or the other, I get attached to my concept of
God and become increasingly intent on disputing the other person's
"limited" concept. The only one I'm really debating there is myself. The
other party is just a convenient foil to externalize my unresolved
content. It's shadow boxing (pun intended) pure and simple.
Whereas on those occasions when I can center my awareness, I'm able to
find common ground with religious fundamentalists and devout atheists
alike, and enjoy the divine play that permeates all of our life experience.
Regards,
-Kartik