British children chanting Sanskrit mantras

[Kartik Subbarao]

Vijay Jois posted this link on Facebook, which I thought might generate
some discussion here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4kdjHFBvd4

Have a look at it, and then read on.

I have a different reaction than most other folks who commented on the
youtube page -- I actually found the video somewhat creepy. I was
imagining the evil priest from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom,
doing the following voiceover: "THIS, Britain, shall be your fate when
India conquers you. We shall force your children to submit to our ways,
to accept our hegemony as you once forced yours upon us". Or something
like that :-)

If it had been Indian children chanting the mantras, I would have felt
thrilled -- like the opening ceremonies of the 2010 Commonwealth Games
in India with the kids doing various Yoga poses, etc. Or alternatively,
if it were British students reciting Shakespeare, that too would have
had me in awe. Even if it were an integrated thing, where British and
Indian children read famous poetry from English and Sanskrit, where the
underlying meanings had a lot in common (e.g. William Blake's famous "To
see the world in a grain of sand" poem), that would have been cool.

But this particular mashup felt dissonant -- it didn't work for me.

How about you all -- what are your reactions and thoughts?

-Kartik

[Yelleshpur Dathatri]

Dear Kartik: Thanks for the message. I would agree with you that the chanting has not been appropriate in a few places. It could have been practiced more and checked with a person who has good knowledge of the mantras. Also, I felt most of the chanters were not too thrilled but it appeared to me that they were made to chant.

 

Overall, the effort must be complemented since it has taken place in London Police Academy.

[mysr...@aol.com]

Kartik,

 

I have mixed feelings about such attempts.  Recently, I have seen a vidio of a group of European enthusiasts chanting Rudram-Chamakam (being taught by a group and repeated by the students).  The quality was quite good in comparison to a group of Indian learners (I attend such a class where most have had very little background or training but are genuinely interested as evidenced by their regular attendance during the evening of a working day).  I cannot imagine a bunch of kids doing this on a voluntary basis, no matter where they are from.  I remember, our middle school prayer consisted of two Sanskrit verses (yaM-SaivAH samupAsatE and yam brahma-varuNEMdra-rudra-marutaH) which were recited by all (including some Christian, Muslim and Jain students).  But the non-Hindu kids did not have the same reverence as the Hindu kids.  Even among Hindu kids, not all had the same capability to pronounce the words properly.  Regardless of all that, maybe, religious hymns from all sacred books should be taught to all students at an early age to show the commonality in spiritual purpose.

 

Nataraj

[Keshav Sundaresan]

Kartik,   Not having had the good fortune of learning Sanskrit or the chanting of the vedas in my student days, I do not consider myself competent to render an authoritative evaluation of the chanting by British children. Nevertheless, it is a welcome development that these are being increasingly popular in the predominantly non-Hindu world of USA and Europe. It is all the more creditable that the children were invited to perform at the Buckingham Palace.   While correct pronunciation is admittedly very important, I think we should get used to a less than perfect articulation if the thematic content is worthy of attention. For instance, I find the lectures by Frank Morales on Sankrit and Vedas quite engaging although his pronunciation of Sanskrit words is oftern not quite what we expect.     Sundaresan   --- On Mon, 8/8/11, mysr...@aol.com <mysr...@aol.com> wrote:

[Kartik Subbarao]

Good comments everyone. Just to be clear, my own issue here wasn't so
much with the pronunciation. One of my favorite spiritual writers, Ken
Wilber, butchers some of the Sanskrit words when he speaks them, in
cringeworthy fashion :-)

Not that I claim to be any expert at Sanskrit pronunciation myself! I'd
have no clue how to pronounce some of these words if I didn't pick them
up through cultural osmosis.

As a humorous Sankethi-aside -- when I hear the common mispronunciation
of karma as CAAAAARMA, I sometimes think I should tell them "no, it's
not spicy at all" :-)

-Kartik

On 08/08/2011 02:58 PM, Keshav Sundaresan wrote:
> Kartik,
> Not having had the good fortune of learning Sanskrit or the chanting of
> the vedas in my student days, I do not consider myself competent to
> render an authoritative evaluation of the chanting by British children.
> Nevertheless, it is a welcome development that these are being
> increasingly popular in the predominantly non-Hindu world of USA and
> Europe. It is all the more creditable that the children were invited to
> perform at the Buckingham Palace.
> While correct pronunciation is admittedly very important, I think we
> should get used to a less than perfect articulation if the thematic
> content is worthy of attention. For instance, I find the lectures by
> Frank Morales on Sankrit and Vedas quite engaging although his
> pronunciation of Sanskrit words is oftern not quite what we expect.
> Sundaresan
>

> <http://us.mc1615.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=subb...@computer.org>>

> wrote:
>
> Vijay Jois posted this link on Facebook, which I thought might
> generate some discussion here:
>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?__v=F4kdjHFBvd4

[Narasimha Swamy]

In a sense I understand the comments by Kartik. I was visiting the SV temple in Pittsburgh and it was a Sunday Morning and they just had opened the temple and MSS singing Suprabhaata. All of us looked Indianish except for one very tall, white male who was singing quite well along with all of us the Suprabhaata and his enunciation was very good. Initially it felt weird to see and hear that. Then I closed my eyes and all of a sudden it did not sound any thing other than just another voice in a chorus!

My point is that, we are all so used to NOT seeing others performing, singing these sort of things, the visual effect takes over the audio and "looks" weird or dissonant. Try not to see the faces. Close your eyes and just hear the chant and then see how it feels.

Narasimha

[Kartik Subbarao]

Thanks for your comments Narasimha, and welcome to the group! Your point about the audio vs visual aspect is insightful. Interestingly enough, in neuroscience there is a phenomenon known as the McGurk effect: how we *see* someone speak can actually override what we *hear* them say. As an example, when we hear someone say "ba" but their lips move like "fa", we actually hear "fa", not "ba":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

On a somewhat related note, this video is referenced along with others to powerfully illustrate situations where the mind creates what we experience as external reality:

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Hindu-belief-about-what-is-true-and-what-is-illusion

Great reminder of how we construct reality at such a fundamental level, and a prod to our deepening discrimination and awareness.

Back to the topic in this thread -- as I've thought about it some more, part of why it felt so out of place to me is because the Hindu religion/culture does not seek to proselytize people. Since its universal spirituality and philosophy already includes everyone and everything, there's ultimately nobody "outside" to convert. I know that nobody was actually trying to convert anyone here to Hinduism. But even the *trappings* of proselytization, such as the forced chanting of Sanskrit mantras, felt to me like they were out of sync with the underlying essence of what those Sanskrit mantras are conveying. To be sure, there is also a sense of possessiveness that I have towards my Indian cultural experience that also contributes to that feeling.

I find that cross-cultural experiences like this can be on the knife's edge. Sometimes, just a little bit of the wrong thing can make the whole experience offputting. But in other cases, just a little bit of the *right* thing can make me forgive a lot of mistakes.

    -Kartik

[Keshav Sundaresan]

The video on the McGurk effect is fascinating as it is revealing. Thanks for educating me on this.   Regards   Sundaresan --- On Wed, 3/14/12, Kartik Subbarao <kartik....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kartik Subbarao <kartik....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: British children chanting Sanskrit mantras To: sankethi-s...@googlegroups.com

[Yelleshpur Jayaram]

Interesting observation   jayaram "The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything." Dr Jayaram (Dr. Jay)

--- On Wed, 3/14/12, Kartik Subbarao <kartik....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Kartik Subbarao <kartik....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: British children chanting Sanskrit mantras To: sankethi-s...@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012, 8:31 PM