Distance from Sun to Earth in RgVeda

[Usha Sanka]

​Namaste

Just wanted to share this interesting piece of information.

-itthaM vinItA

उषा

------------------------

Idea about Distance from Sun to Earth in RgVeda-

Perhaps, the great Indian talents in the Vedic age
had the knowledge of the speed of light.
G.V.Raghavrao in his book quotes a verse from
Rigveda (I, 50-4) Yojananam Sahasta Dwe Dwe Shate
Dwe Cha Yojane Aken Nimishardhena Krammana
Namostute. In this verse, the author pays respects to
the one (the reference is to the sun light) who moves
2202 yojans in half nimish. Yojan is a quite common
unit in India, it means 4 kose, each kose measuring
8000 British yards and each yard measuring 0.9144 m.
The definition of the time unit nimish can be found in
Shrimadbhagwat 11-3 to 10) where it is mentioned
that 15 nimishas make 1 kashta, 15 kashtas make one
laghu, 30 laghus make 1 muhurta and 30 muhurtas
make 1 diva-ratri. A diva-ratri is, of course, a
day-night which is 24 hours in modern language. When
you convert 2202 yojans per half nimish into SI units,
it turns out to be 3.0 x 10 8 m/s up to two significant
digits, a value quite accurate as we know it today.

​from--Pg 444
CONCEPTS OF PHYSICS
[PART 1]
H C VERMA, PhD
Department of Physics
IIT, Kanpur
Published by
BHARATI BHAWAN (Publishers & Distributors)
4271/3 Ansari Road, Daryaganj, NEW DELHI 110 002
----------------------
Mantra reference-
तथा च स्मर्यते योजनानां सहस्रं द्वे द्वे शते द्वे च योजने एकेन निमिषार्धेन क्रममाण नमोऽस्तुते॥ सायण ऋृग्वेद भाष्य 1.50.4

----------------------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayana

Given that a yojana was equivalent to about 8 km and a nimesha to about 106.7 ms[citation needed], Sayana's approximation to the speed of light comes to about 330000 km/s, which is only 10% higher than the actual value of c as determined by modern scientific experiments.

Computer scientist and Indologist historian Subhash Kak describes that the Vayu Purana (ch. 50) has a similar passage, where the "speed of the Sun" is exactly 1/18th of Sayana's value. He claims that although a "rationalist" may dismiss the proximity of Sayana's value to the physical constant as simply coincidence, there is evidence of "scientific foreknowledge" in the ancient Indian vedas.[3]

​----------------------

This page has some more details-

​

http://hindi.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/science-of-spirituality/content-357632

--

"-यद्गत्वा न निवर्तन्ते तद्धाम परमं मम"

[G S S Murthy]

I have read of a similar coincidence between modern science and Hindu mythology in respect of age of the universe.

Regards,

Murthy

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[shankara]

Namaste,

This verse is not a part of Rigveda. It is from Sayana's bhashya.

This coincidence was pointed out first by Dr PV Vartak in his "Scientific Knowledge in Vedas".

https://archive.org/details/ScientificKnowledgeInVedas

 

regards
shankara

---

From: G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com>
To: "sams...@googlegroups.com" <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 11 August 2015 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Distance from Sun to Earth in RgVeda

[Usha Sanka]

Thank you for this information and for the book reference. 

I shall try to inform the same to the publishers of that popular Physics text book - to add the detail in their next edition.

One more place, has the same information. A verse from the साम्बकृता-द्वादशार्यासूर्यस्तुतिः says-

निमिषार्धेनैकेन द्वे च शते द्वे सहस्रे द्वे।

क्रममाण योजनानां नमोस्तु ते नलिननाथाय।।

-may be after Sayana. 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:40 PM, 'shankara' via samskrita <sams...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Namaste,

This verse is not a part of Rigveda. It is from Sayana's bhashya.

This coincidence was pointed out first by Dr PV Vartak in his "Scientific Knowledge in Vedas".

https://archive.org/details/ScientificKnowledgeInVedas

 

regards
shankara

[Arvind_Kolhatkar]

Dear Group,

Rigveda 1.50.4 has the following

तरणिर्विश्वदर्शतो ज्योतिष्कृदसि सूर्य | विश्वमा भासि रोचनम् |

Griffith translates this as follows:

''Swift and all beautiful art thou, O Surya, maker of the light, Illuming all the radiant realm.'' 

SayaNacharya's(1315? - 1387) commentary on this says:

तथा च स्मर्यते - योजनानां सहस्त्रं द्वे द्वे शते द्वे च योजने। एकेन निमिषार्धेन क्रममाण नमोऽस्तुते॥

"[O Sun,] We salute you, you who traverses 2,202 yojanas in half a nimisha."

(SayaNa does not indicate a source for this verse.  He merely says 'तथा च स्मर्यते'.)

There are several websites in which it is claimed that SayaNa's above statement should be interpreted to mean that the ancient Indians were knowledgeable about the velocity of light and that their measure of the velocity of light was remarkably close to the modern number of approximately 186,000 miles/300,000 km p/s.  Indeed, this website goes so far as to calculate it at 284,883.75 km p/s.

The same website supplies to following justification thereof. (Minor corrections added by me.)

<<

In the Vedas, 'Yojana' is a unit of distance and 'Nimisha' is a unit of time. 1 Yojana =  8000 Dhanus = 9 miles roughly. (1 Dhanus = Bow-string length, an average person's height.) 

 

The measures of time are thus defined in the Puranas:

15 nimisa = 1 kashtha

30 kastha = 1 kala

30 kala = 1 muhurta

30 muhurta = 1 day-and-night (24 hours)

1 Diva-ratri (24 hours) = (30 muhurta) x (30 kalas) x (30 kashtha) x (15 nimisha) = 27000 x 15 Nimishas

So, (27000 x 15) Nimishas = (24 x 60 x 60) seconds

Therefore, 1 Nimisha = (24 x 60 x 60) / (27000 x 15) = 16/75 seconds.

 

Now, 1 Yojana = 8000 human heights (or Dhanu i.e. length of a bow string) as per Vedic arthashastra.  Assuming the average human height in ancient India at 5.75 feet, (5 feet, 9 inches) and 1 meter = 3.333 feet,

8000 x 5.75/3.333 = 13,801 meter i.e., 13.8 km (approx.) or 8.625 miles (approx.)

 

Thus 1 Yojana = 13.8 km

 

The speed of light is 2202 yojana in ½ nimisha, or 4404 yojana in 1 nimisha.   Converting this to km/second, the speed of light is 

4404 x 13.8 x 75/16 km per second = 284.883.75 km/ps.

>>

Now we have to remember that we started this computation from the verse quoted by Sayanacharya.  That verse manifestly speaks of the speed of the sun and not the speed of its light.  According to Hindu Jyotisha, all planets - and even the sun is treated as one of them - move in their respective orbits at a common speed of 11,858.75 yojanas per day.  (See ’भारतीय ज्योतिषशास्त्राचा इतिहास’ by S.B.Dixit p.317).  Bhaskaracharya II gives the same number in verse 6 of 'कक्षाग्रहानयन’ of 'गणिताध्याय'.  Now this number, 11,858.75 yojanas per day, is a far cry from the above-computed speed of 4404 yojana in 1 nimisha.   

One may get over this difficulty by conceding for the sake of argument that Sayanacharya's verse is actually talking of the speed of light and not the speed of the sun.  Even this concession still leaves behind a number of difficulties.  

Both the key concepts of 'Yojana' and "Nimisha' have other definitions attached to them by other authorities.

I could not locate in any Purana, the source of the earlier-quoted table from Nimisha to 24 hours.  Also, what is 'Vedic Arthashastra'?  The Arthashastra that we know of, viz., Kautilya's, does not define a 'Nimisha' anywhere.

On the other hand, at least two other definitions 'Nimisha' come to mind.  Verses 19-21 in 'Kalamana' of 'Ganitadhyaya' of Bhaskaracharya give the following table:

१८ निमेष = १ काष्ठा, ३० काष्ठा = १ कला, ६० कला = १ मुहूर्त आणि ३० मुहूर्त = अहोरात्र.   

Therefore 972,000 Nimish = 86,400 seconds or 1 Nimisha = 0.0888...seconds.

Kalavarga in Amarakosha gives yet another table:

१८ निमिष = १ काष्ठा, ३० काष्ठा = १ कला, ३० कला = १ क्षण, १२ क्षण = १ मुहूर्त, ३० मुहूर्त = अहोरात्र. 

Here 1 Nimisha = 0.0148 seconds.

There is a similar lack of clarity in the definition of a Yojana.  Leelavati gives the following:

४ हस्त = १ दण्ड, २००० दण्ड = १ क्रोश आणि ४ क्रोश = १ योजन. or ३२००० हस्त = १ योजन. 

We do not know what is हस्त but if it is taken as 18 inches, 1 Yojana = 9.09 miles.

We shall have to display enough flexibility of thought to ignore all these uncertainties if we have to put any credence in the proposition that that ancient Indians knew about the velocity of light.

I am satisfied by the explanation given by Dr Subhash Kak in his paper 

<<

"We have provided a context in which Sayana’s speed can be understood. In this understanding, the speed of light was taken to be 2×182 greater than the speed of the Sun in standard yojanas so that light can travel the entire postulated size of the universe in one day. It is a lucky chance that the final number turned out to be exactly equal to the true speed. Sayana’s value as speed of light must be considered the most astonishing “blind hit” in the history of science!"

>>

(Incidentally, I have checked the book by Dr HC Verma, cited at the beginning.  It merely refers to what Sayanacharya says, without drawing any support from it.  He later goes on to explain the modern theory of the speed of light.)

Arvind Kolhatkar.

 

 

[Hnbhat B.R.]

Arvindji has explained the difficulties in the calculation of the units of time and space. Apart from this, he rightly observes that the quoted refers to the Sun obviously traversing the space in the context of a praise the Sun by a Samba and not in any Vedic hymn. Thus it has to be taken to be granted for the sake of argument that the verse refers to the rays of light and it calculated the distance in Vedas as it is claimed. The style of quoting itself makes it clear that he is not quoting any Vedic Verse :

तथा च स्मर्यते but to some Stores in some Purana.

In the cases of retaking Vedic texts, it is common to use तथा च श्रूयते or तथा च श्रुतिः if does not name the context.

The whole acrobatic exercise seems to be to credit all the modern Science to Vedic Literature.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

The Speed of light in the above verse is discussed asking with many other facts of modern science Technology in Veda-s in this thread of this group:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/samskrita/Speed$20of$20light/samskrita/d8OA7E-7WOU

Many including Mr.Abhyankar ji had contributed to the thread.

The difference is in this thread the calculation is related to the distance between the Sun and the Earth. Here the thread starts as the other, the verse is referred to be in Veda, which is not a fact. The distance is not specific as from the Sun and the Earth which is not fact just guessed. As it happens in the verse (not in any Vedic Hymn) simply suggestive of the distance traversed by the Sun in the Sky.