Visarga

[Shreyas Munshi]

Scholars in the group,

What is the phonetic description of /:/ the visarga ? (How the visarga sound is produced? Like the phonetic description of त is " unvoiced dental plosive ).

Regards.

ShreyasMunshi  

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[Deepro Chakraborty]

It's just a voiceless glottal stop <h>. 

In some varieties, they pronounce it as voiced followed by a vowel, which of course is not the original pronunciation.

[Shreyas Munshi]

Thanks

Voiceless Glottal fricative.

Yes I agree pronouncing it as 'ah -ihi - uhu is not correct.

Regards.

Shreyas Munshi
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[Deepro Chakraborty]

Sorry. Yeah, fricative. 

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[T.K Gopalan]

Namaskaram.

Are you saying e.g. 

Gita verse  1 

Dharmakshdtre… YUYUTSAVAH

  Instead of yuyutsavaha?

T K Gopalan

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[Deepro Chakraborty]

Yes. There metre can't be rendered properly if you add an extra syllable.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Adding a vowel immediately following a consonant does not add a syllable. It adds another phone. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana-500044

 

 

 

[Deepro Chakraborty]

But I thought a vowel constituted the nucleus of a syllable and an extra vowel meant an extra syllable. 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

what constitutes a syllable varies from language to language. 

In Indian languages including Sanskrit syllables are vowels or phonetic/phonemic sequences ending in vowels. 

A single consonant alone does not form a syllable in Indian languages. 

English syllables can be like in ex-am-in-a-tion. 

Sanskrit syllables are like in s'u- bhaa- s'a- yah 

not in the form of   s'u- bhaa- s'a- ya- h 

s'-u-bh-aa-s'-a-y-a-h 

That is phonet(m)ic division , not syllabic division. 

 

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[Deepro Chakraborty]

I understand that but adding an extra vowel after a visarga will give you an extra syllable. 

"gu-ruh" has two syllables but "gu-ru-hu" has three. This is what I wanted to say. 

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[Shreyas Munshi]

I fully agree with you.

Shreyas Munshi
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[Shreevatsa R]

If I remember correctly, in Kṣemendra's Suvṛtta-tilaka, he gives his (apparently idiosyncratic) opinions about various metres, and for some of them he says they sound better/worse when the line ends with a visarga. My theory (and this is just my theory; have to get it verified with scholars — maybe there is some alternative interpretation) is that this indicates that even in Kṣemendra's time (11th-century Kashmir) the visarga had some metrical significance (contrary to the "theory"), just as it would if it were pronounced with an echo vowel (as done today).

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[R Krishnan]

As per Chandas rule -

गुरु = 2 letters both Laghu.

गुरुः  also = 2 letters. गु is Laghu and रुः as one letter but Guru.

Visarga will make the previous letter a Guru letter even if it is a laghu letter but will not be considered a separate letter just like Yuktakshar.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

धर्मक्षेत्रे कुरुक्षेत्रे समवेता युयुत्सवः 

  युयुत्सवः prounounced as yuyutsavaha , for hearing , does not adversely affect and sound as any chandobhanga. 

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[Shreyas Munshi]

Bhagwadgita first shloka, first half of the second line    

मामका: पाण्डवाष्चैव= मामका; पाण्डवा: चैव (विसर्ग NOT pronounced as 

 /हा/ ) gives eight syllables of the Anusthup Chhanda. BUT if pronounced as /हा/ gives ten syllables. 

So visarga  in का: pronounced as

 /काह् /and in  वा: as /वाह्/ seems to be correct.

Submitted with regards.

 

Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@gmail.com, shreya...@rediffmail.com, shreyas...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments,
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[Prakash Raj Pandey]

On Shivaratri, I recited Rudrashtadhayi. Here is the recital of the first adhyaya.

 I request you to listen this and suggest where I need to improve. 
This recital includes pronunciation of many visargas.

(My shakha is Madhyandiniya Shakha of Shukla Yajurveda)

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[R Krishnan]

मामका: पाण्डवाष्चैव= 

मा =  one गुरु letter

म =  one लघु letter

काः ( pronounced काफ् due to प following it ) = one गुरु letter . The visarga will not  increase the number of letters.

पाण् = one गुरु letter

ड = one लघु letter

वाष् = one गुरु letter

चै = one गुरु letter

व = one लघु letter

Anushtup metre with Stotra Vrittam having 8 letters ineach pada requires the 5th letter to be Laghu letter, the 6th letter to be Guru letter and the 7th letter to be Guru in the 1st and 3rd line, which has been followed here. So visarga will not add to the number of letters. As I had mentioned earlier it will only made the previous letter a Guru letter even if it is a laghu letter.

Krishnan

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