ॐ Why, in the Sanskrit language, during declension, does the suffix word change when the ending letter of the previous word change?

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

Why, in the Sanskrit language, during declension, does the suffix word change when the ending letter of the previous word change? What is the rationale behind using different sounds, to convey the same feeling, just because the ending letter changes?

The word धर्मक्षेत्रे, can be split into धर्मक्षेत्र + इ. गुण-सन्धिः आद् गुणः (6।1।87). The word इ, in this case, is used to represent, the, feeling of inside. So, my question is, why, when the ending letter is changing, the word that is being suffixed is changing, to represent the same feeling of inside?

[Taff Rivers]

Ganesh,

Those vowel changes are simply for ease of pronunciation. 

In everyday language, it's what all those rules of sandhiḥ are for.

If you were to say the Sanskrit letter a, and follow it with the i,

you will notice that you will have to change the shape of your mouth, your lips and move your tongue,

which makes you pause in between saying the two letters.

But if you blend those two vowels together as one, to make the one sound - e.

then, saying that e, straight after the r of dharmakṣetr, can be done smoothly without the need for oral gymnastics.

That is my understanding of sandhiḥ.

Hope this helps,

For your 'feeling of inside', I understand you to mean 'internal sandhiḥ'.

For  'ending letter word', I read 'initial vowel'.  

For 'being suffixed', I read 'being inflected'.

Taff Rivers

[psho...@gmail.com]

I interpreted his question differently. 

For example, to arrive at सप्तमी (7th case) singular, Panini instructs that  'इ' be added to the noun-base:

Accordingly, we arrive at these 7th cases: 

[1] धर्मक्षेत्र + इ -> धर्मक्षेत्रे

[2] मरुत् + इ -> मरुति

[note] I'm not sure whether it's as simple as just adding इ. I know almost next to nothing about derivations using Panini's system. But for the time being let's pretend that these derivations are 1-step derivations and that they're correct. 

Now, for a base such as कवि, this addition of इ doesn't yield the 7th case directly.  If it did, we would have *कवी, whereas actually it's कवौ. 

I think this is what Ganesh probably wants to know: why it's कवौ and not कवी (कवि + इ)

My own answer is that forms such as कवौ, सेनायाम्, etc., were in use long before a grammarian such as Panini came along. He probably found that adding इ to the noun-base took care of most of 7th case derivations. Then,  to account for forms such as कवौ, सेनायाम्,etc., he created additional rules. 

As they commonly say, my 2¢ :D

[Hnbhat B.R.]

I could not understand his questions. We understand tnese are phonetical changes according to grammar rules changing preceding vowels. Suffixes have certain meanings and not any inside or outside feeling.

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[S. L. Abhyankar]

My study of the subject is as under =>

The suffixes प्रत्यय-s for obtaining शब्दरूपाणि are as detailed in सूत्रम् - स्वौँजसमौट्छष्टाभ्याम्भ्यस्ङेभ्याम्भ्यस्ङसिँभ्याम्भ्यस्ङसोसाम्ङ्योस्सुप् (4'1'2) This single word is a संधि of 21 प्रत्यय-s, 3 (एकवचनम् द्विवचनम् and बहुवचनम्) for each of the seven विभक्ति-s. On splitting the सन्धि-s the 21 प्रत्यय-s are सुँ औच् अस् अम् औट् छष् टा भ्याम् भिस् ङे भ्याम् भ्यस् ङसिँ भ्याम् भ्यस् ङस् ओस् आम् ङि ओस् सुप् These are the grammatical names of the 21 प्रत्यय-s. 

However the process प्रक्रिया of affixing the प्रत्यय-s to a प्रातिपदिकम् (to a root word) - by the way a प्रातिपदिकम् is defined as अर्थवदधातुरप्रत्ययः प्रातिपदिकम् (1'2'45) - 

• the प्रत्यय is first undressed to its affixable form 
  
• undressing the प्रत्यय is taking away the इत्-s 
• The इत्-s are defined in सूत्र-s (1'3'2) to (1'3'8) 
• सूत्रम् - तस्य लोपः (1'3'9) dictates taking the इत्-s away.
• For example the प्रत्यय for सप्तमी एकवचनम् is ङि. It has at its beginning ङ् which belongs to क-वर्ग, is hence a कु-element and in turn it is a an इत् as per लशक्वतद्धिते (1'3'8). By taking away ङ् from ङि, we have इ as the प्रत्यय to be affixed to get सप्तमी एकवचनम् for different प्रातिपदिक-s 

It is obvious that the प्रातिपदिक-s will also be made ready by different process(es), so that the प्रत्यय can be affixed to it. 

Obtaining शब्दरूपाणि is quite similar to dressing an actor for his/her role on the stage. If सप्तमी विभक्ति is like putting the cap on, the caps for the king, the minister, the attendant will have to be different - maybe बहुवचनम् for the king, द्विवचनम् for the minister, एकवचनम् for the attendant.

For consonant-ending प्रातिपदिक-s, इ the प्रत्यय for सप्तमी एकवचनम् may fit directly e.g. मनस् + इ = मनसि. 

For vowel-ending प्रातिपदिक-s, the process would often be complex. 

• There will certainly be the resultant sound-effect, the सन्धि-effect e.g. देव + इ = देवे. (संधि as per आद्गुणः 6'1'87)
  
• But it may not be as straightforward always. 
• There again, dressing up for feminine roles is always more complex, right ?

There is a good booklet (less than 100 pages) पाणिनीय-पद्धत्या शब्दरूपाणि by Dr. नरेन्द्र, published by संस्कृतकार्यालयः श्रीअरविन्दाश्रमः पुदुच्चेरी. It details पञ्चविंशति-प्रकार-शब्दानां रूपावलिः.

[DR Y N RAO]

Dear Abhyankarji,

Do you have a PDF Version of the book 'पाणिनीय-पद्धत्या शब्दरूपाणि by Dr. नरेन्द्र'?   If so, please send its Link.

With best wishes,

--Dr. Y.N. RAO,
15/10/2018

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[S. L. Abhyankar]

पाणिनीय-पद्धत्या शब्दरूपाणि by Dr. नरेन्द्र is a copy-righted and priced publication. There are many centers of Aravindashram across India. You may inquire at the center nearest to you. I am marking Cc to Dr. Sampadanand Mishra, who may guide.

[Taff Rivers]

Dr,

   On looking for this, the nearest I could get is from https://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/subantaruupaNi.html

Regards,

Taff Rivers

[DR Y N RAO]

Dear Abhyankarji,

Thanks a lot!

I know Dr. Sampadananda Mishra very well.   I will be in touch with him.  In fact, I did not notice the Publisher's Name while contacting you.

With best wishes,

--Dr. Y.N. RAO,
16/10/2018

--

[DR Y N RAO]

Dear Taffji,

Thanks a lot!

With best wishes,

--Dr. Y.N. RAO,
16/10/2018

[सीताराम]

The OP asked - "Why, in the Sanskrit language, during declension, does the suffix word change when the ending letter of the previous word change? What is the rationale behind using different sounds, to convey the same feeling, just because the ending letter changes?"

This is the wrong way of looking at Sanskrit words. Words were already there in veda. Before Panini many other acharyas tried to create grammar rules that would fit words changes. Panini came along and nailed it with his structure.

Rules did not create words, words were there before rules came into existence. Patterns were observed by Rishi's.

Another example to put things into context - Gravity was there before Newton nailed it with a mathematical expression.

Regarding the link Taff posted seems  excellent inspired work from Pt. Yudhisthira Mimamsak - book on undersanding Sanskrit declensions. I am attaching front page of that book. Its in Hindi and published by RamLal Kapoor trust.

Thanks

--

धन्यवाद: - राम 

[सीताराम]

Here is YouTube resource - it did not have new post in past few months but a decent start.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsfkVTlrxnqI-I58wQDZWH_JYZVV_smx3

[Sunder Hattangadi]

https://ia600808.us.archive.org/25/items/ShabdaRupavaliYudhishthirMimamsaka/Shabda%20Rupavali%20-%20Yudhishthir%20Mimamsaka.pdf

[P D]

सर्वेभ्यो नमस्कारः
I am just started to learn the divine language & सुबन्तप्रकरणम् and would like to share my bit.
To convey feeling of “inside”, “on” etc., अधिकरण and  सप्तमी विभक्तिः are applicable. The forms decline in a very precise and methodical manner as under.
सप्तमी एकवचनम् सुप् प्रत्ययः applicable will be ङि (4.1.2) and after removal of अनुबन्धः only इ will remain.

अन्तः	लिङ्गः	शब्दः	प्रत्ययः	सूत्रम्	रूपम्
अ	पु.	राम	इ	4.1.2 सुँ-औ-जस् अम्-औट्-शस् टा-भ्याम्-भिस् ङे-भ्याम्-भ्यस् ङसिँ-भ्याम्-भ्यस् ङस्-ओस्-आम् ङि-ओस्-सुप्	रामे (आद्गुणः 6.1.87)
अ	पु.	सर्व	स्मिन्	7.1.15 ङसिङ्योः स्मात्स्मिनौ इत्यनेन स्मिन् आदेशः	सर्वस्मिन्
आ	पु.	विश्वपा	इ	6.4.140 इति आतोः धातोः (भस्य) आकारस्य लोपः	विश्वपि
इ	पु.	हरि	इ	7.3.119 इति अच्च धेः इति प्रकृतेः इकारस्य अकारः अपितु प्रत्ययस्य औकारादेशः + वृद्धि सन्धिः	हरौ
इ	पु.	सखि	इ	7.3.118 औत् इति इदुद्भ्याम् परस्य ङेः औत् स्यात् इति इकारस्य औकारः, यणं सन्धिः	सख्यौ
उ	पु.	शम्भु	इ	7.3.119 इति अच्च धेः इति प्रकृतेः उकारस्य अकारः अपितु प्रत्ययस्य औकारादेशः + वृद्धि सन्धिः	शम्भौ
ऋ	पु	धातृ	इ	7.3.110 ऋतो ङिसर्वनामस्थानयोः इति ऋकारस्य गुणः - अर् आदेशः	धातरि
आ	स्त्री	रमा	इ	7.3.116 इति ङेराम्नद्याम्नीभ्यः इति ङेः आमादेशः 7.3.113 इति याडापः इति आप् अङ्गात् ङिति परे यादेशः प्रत्ययस्य आदौ	रमायाम्
आ	स्त्री	सर्वा	इ	7.3.116 इति ङेराम्नद्याम्नीभ्यः इति ङेः आमादेशः 7.3.114 इति सर्वनाम्नः स्याड्ढ्रस्वश्च इति स्या, ह्रस्वः च,	सर्वस्याम्
ई	स्त्री	गौरी	इ	7.3.116 इति ङेराम्नद्याम्नीभ्यः इति ङेः आमादेशः 7.3.112 इति आण्नद्या इति आडागमः, 6.1.190 इति आटश्च इति वृद्धिः, यण् सन्धिः	गौर्याम्
इ	स्त्री	मति	इ	घि संज्ञा भवति चेत् पक्षे Þ	मतौ
		मति	इ	7.3.117 इति इदुद्भ्याम् इति इ परे ङेः आम्, यण् सन्धिः	मत्याम्
उ	स्त्री	धेनु	इ	घि संज्ञा भवति चेत् पक्षे Þ	धेनौ
		धेनु	इ	7.3.117 इति इदुद्भ्याम् इति इ परे ङेः आम्, यण् सन्धिः	धेन्वाम्
ऋ	स्त्री	मातृ	इ	7.3.110 ऋतो ङिसर्वनामस्थानयोः इति ऋकारस्य गुणः - अर् आदेशः	मातरि

In neuter Gender too, majority of the words will decline as Masculine words.
From above I feel at the tactical level the Declination given by applications of Sutras of Maharshi Panini gives very logical and precise results.
I would be grateful if the learned scholars, would point out any errors in above, so I could improve.
Thanks and Regards,
Paresh Dalal


From: "\'Sunder Hattangadi\' via samskrita" <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:09:43
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] ॐ Why, in the Sanskrit language, during declension, does the suffix word change when the ending letter of the previous word change?
 

 

https://ia600808.us.archive.org/25/items/ShabdaRupavaliYudhishthirMimamsaka/Shabda Rupavali - Yudhishthir Mimamsaka.pdf

 

 

[S. L. Abhyankar]

परेश-महोदय नमस्ते !

The tabulation prepared by you is very interesting !

Maybe, one has to prepare such tabulations for all the 21 प्रत्यय-s !

I read from your tabulation that, for गौर्याम् as सप्तमी एकवचनम् of गौरी one has to parse through 

7.3.116 इति ङेराम्नद्याम्नीभ्यः इति ङेः आमादेशः
7.3.112 इति आण्नद्या इति आडागमः,
6.1.190 इति आटश्च इति वृद्धिः, यण् सन्धिः

How does one really pick up only these specific सूत्र-s, that too in the  particular order ? 

Maybe, this can be put in the form of a FLOWCHART or ALGORITHM. 

My thinking for the algorithm is 

Step 1 INPUT प्रातिपदिकम् 

Step 2 If प्रातिपदिकम् is सर्वनाम or विशेषण INPUT लिङ्गम् 

• If प्रातिपदिकम् is a नाम, often it would have specific लिङ्गम् 
  
• Anyway, better to INPUT लिङ्गम् as Step 2

Step 3 Analyze अन्त्यवर्णः of प्रातिपदिकम् 

Step 4 INPUT विभक्ति and वचनम् 

Step 5 Algorithm will have स्वौजसमौट्छष्टाभ्यांभिस् ... (4'2'1) as its basic database. So, algorithm will select the प्रत्यय matching with विभक्ति and वचनम् as input at Step 4.

• If प्रातिपदिकम् is a सर्वनाम and विभक्ति and वचनम् input at Step 3 are 5'1 or 7'1, the algorithm should execute ङसिङ्योः स्मात्स्मिनौ (7'1'15)  Also ङे to स्मै for 4'1

Step 6 Algorithm will proceed to prepare the अङ्गम् based on analysis of लिङ्गम् and अन्त्यवर्णः of प्रातिपदिकम् as at Steps 2 and 3. I guess, this is the trickiest part.

Step 7 Algorithm will proceed to execute सन्धि of अङ्गम् and प्रत्यय, if any. For this it will pick up the most appropriate rule of सन्धि. This सन्धि should yield the desired शब्दरूपम् 

...

Maybe the algorithm can be structured to get all 24 शब्दरूपाणि of given प्रातिपदिकम् 

• or all 63 शब्दरूपाणि of given सर्वनाम or विशेषणम् in all three लिङ्ग-s 
• as also the optional रूपाणि for the pronouns अस्मद्, युष्मद्, इदम् एतद् !!
  

How good does this concept of outlining a FLOWCHART or ALGORITHM appeal to you ? 

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

ॐ

Thanks for the excellent clarification. I had already got a similar answer from another scholar. 

But since I did not understand, I was forced to try posting the question again here.

A million thanks to all who tried!

[Ganesh J. Acharya]

ॐ
How does the sound म् + इ becomes मे? What is the logic behind it?

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 6:47:16 AM UTC+5:30, P D wrote:

[Hnbhat B.R.]

Please specify where you found. म्+इ becomes मि only and not मे.

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[Ganesh J. Acharya]

ॐ
Surprisingly when I am using a TTS software and am playing म्इ I am actually hearing मे

[Hnbhat B.R.]

It is error of software or your hearing.

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[Ganesh J. Acharya]

Do you have such tables for the whole Panni Grammar?
Has any book already published one?
This made things so clear.

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 6:47:16 AM UTC+5:30, P D wrote:

[Taff Rivers]

All,

Regarding bilingual statements such as

        'feeling of “inside”, “on” etc., अधिकरण and  सप्तमी inside'

It is very necessary to be aware of 'differences', in matters involving translation, or things can get very confusing.

The above is a case in point.

The English 'inside' 'on' etc., relate to locations within a space. And only In space.

Whereas the sanskrit विभक्तिः relate to locations within time as well as space.

So, English has a spacial grammatical case, but no temporal case.

Matters of tine are expressed by combinations of words that include prepositions or auxiliaries

Again, mind-stuff and citta.

Mind 'stuff', would be what a brain surgeon sees - matter

Whereas thought stuff (citta) is unseable - energy.

Myself, I am often in need of many kilos of that mind-stuff, but I never been able to locate any, not even in the land of Bhārata. 

As far as tables of rules are concerned. They go from the general to types of particulars.

The given table has been derived from the Aṣtādhyāyī.

To derive such tables for each and every particular would be a monumental task.  

Unfortunately, these things are not taught in the classroom.

Regards,

Taff Rivers