рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ - рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡

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рд╕реАрддрд╛рд░рд╛рдо

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Sep 29, 2018, 10:22:12тАпPM9/29/18
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I find it very interesting to see the representation of these two words -┬а
in рд░рд╛рдорд╛рдпрдгрдореН - рд░рд╛рдо was described as┬ардХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡┬а┬а

рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ people do not put a conch in the place of a Rama's head. But at the same time when рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ reference comes people depict him with a horse head.┬а
Can someone please help me understand this discrepancy?┬а┬а
I think because Conch can not speak & have human features. This problem does not arise if you put a horse head. Conch does not have a well formed mouth but a horse does to recite words.┬а
рдЙрд╖реНрдЯреНрд░ рдЗрд╡ рдореБрдЦрдВ рдпрд╕реНрдп - рдЙрд╖реНрдЯреНрд░рдореБрдЦрдореН┬а
рдХрдореНрдмреБ рдЗрд╡ рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдВ рдпрд╕реНрдп -┬ардХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡
рд╣рдп рдЗрд╡ рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдВ рдпрд╕реНрдп -┬ард╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡┬а┬а
Is there any other type of рд╕рдорд╛рд╕ one can do to resolve this┬аproblem?
Thanks for your┬аhelp
--
рдзрдиреНрдпрд╡рд╛рдж: - рд░рд╛рдо┬а

Hnbhat B.R.

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Sep 29, 2018, 10:41:37тАпPM9/29/18
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рдХрдореНрдмреБрд░рд┐рд╡ рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛ рдпрд╕реНрдп рд╕ рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ! Correct. рдЙрдкрдорд┐рддрд╕рдорд╛рд╕рдГ! with рдХрдореНрдмреБрдГ┬а
But рд╣рдпрд╕реНрдпреЗрд╡ рдореБрдЦрдВ рдпрд╕реНрдп рд╕ рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ In this, it is not horse that is conpared, but the face of horse conpared with the face of рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡. So that is not any discrepancy at all in the description, but┬а it's a fact described. Error is in yound formation.

Please follow the gender of the words in the components of your compound formation.
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Sep 30, 2018, 6:32:16тАпPM9/30/18
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There's also an avatar of Vishnu with horse's head:


Probably that's the basis of portraying Rama also with a horse's head.

A Sanskrit-Malayalam dictionary lists words such as┬ардХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛, рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ, рдХрдореНрдмреБрдХрдгреНрдардГ, рдХрдореНрдмреБрдХрдгреНрдареА, etc., to mean 'shell-necked', i.e., someone beautiful, handsome, etc.,┬а

рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ meanings are listed as 'horse-necked', Vishnu, the asura who stole the vedas, etc.,

The dictionary also lists a word┬ард╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╣рдиреН (рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╣рд╛ in nominative singular) as a synonym for Vishnu because in his avatara as Matsya, he kills this asura рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ and rescues the vedas. Thus, both рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ and рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╣рд╛ mean Vishnu.┬а

As an aside, the tortoise that falls to its death mid-flight (a Panchatantra story) has рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ as its name:


The story in Panchatantra begins like┬а this: рдЕрд╕реНрддрд┐ рдХрд╕реНрдорд┐рдВрд╢реНрдЪрд┐рдЬреНрдЬрд▓рд╛рд╢рдпреЗ рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡реЛ рдирд╛рдо рдХрдЪреНрдЫрдкрдГред

I think it'll make a great name for a pet tortoise (of course only when it has come out of its shell and its neck is visible :D)

рд╕реАрддрд╛рд░рд╛рдо

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Oct 1, 2018, 6:11:47тАпAM10/1/18
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Horse necked should not be depicted as shown in the image below - that was my issue.
The picture did not appear like Horse neck, someone managed to put a horse head on human shoulder. Is this representation correct?
Written sciprt was not invented till much later times, so how did Vishnu rescue orally transmitted Vedas? Wrong representation can ruin many things.
image.png

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KN.Ramesh

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Oct 1, 2018, 8:30:24тАпAM10/1/18
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Kambujaya Greevaam Nata Devaam - dikshitar 2nd navavarna kriti
are kambujaya greevaam and kambugreevam denote the same meaning?

Ravi Mamparambath

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Oct 1, 2018, 8:30:24тАпAM10/1/18
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This is the idol at┬аPondicherry Sri Lakshmi Hayagreev

Dr. M. R. Ravi
9249582664

blood moon.jpg

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 1, 2018, 8:48:04тАпAM10/1/18
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It is not the question of samasa of hayagreeva, but the you doubt about the incarnation,]]Here is the vicky article on Hayagreeva:


It contains legends of Hayagreeva and iinformation on the temples devoted to this deity.. In any case, hyagreeva means horse faced whether someone fitted to a human body by surgery or as incarnation of Vishnu.

рд╕реАрддрд╛рд░рд╛рдо

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Oct 1, 2018, 9:11:08тАпAM10/1/18
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Thank you Dr. Bhat,┬а

So in essence instead of investing why this corruption came into our mythology we have to accept the temples, status and wiki article as authentic information about our texts.┬а
Thats definitely a good way to perpetuate ignorance to next generation.┬а What will be the next step in degeneration, that some centaur sitting in sky will punish me if I do not pray to him. Is this the division we are supposed to pass to the next generation?┬а

Believe┬аit or not kids ask questions like, why we worship a stone who cannot move, Why he has horse face. I guess we can just tell them to shut up or call it blasphemy and give them time outs.┬а

Vardhan Taltaje

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Oct 1, 2018, 9:46:17тАпAM10/1/18
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Shri Sitarama,

Though Hayagriva is the popular name and it literally translates to one having Horse's neck, the Purana story indicates that the face was also of a horse.

This information is from the 'Purana-Nama-Chudamani' book of 1958 edition in Kannada, which describes in brief how Vishnu got horse's face. It quotes Devi-Bhagavata (1-5) and MahaBharata Udyoga parva (130) as the sources. There were also two Rakshasas by same name and one of them was killed by Vishnu (again sources are Devi-Bhagavata 1-5, MahaBharata Shanti Parva 122, 347, 357). All these are from the same book.

Hope this helps you to check this further. If you want, I can take photos of the relevant pages from the book and post it here, but note that it is in Kannada.

Hnbhat B.R.

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Oct 1, 2018, 8:39:03тАпPM10/1/18
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Here is the description from Shabdakalpadruma:

рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдГ, рдкреБрдВ, (рд╣рдпрд╕реНрдп рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛ рдЗрд╡ рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛ рдпрд╕реНрдп ред)

рдордзреБрдХрдЯрднрд╣реГрддрд╡реЗрджреЛрджреНрдзрд╛рд░рд╛рд░реНрдердВ рд╡рд┐рд╖реНрдгрд╛рд░рд╡рддрд╛рд░рд╡рд┐рд╢реЗрд╖рдГ ред
рддрд╕реНрдп рд░реВрдкрдВ рдпрдерд╛, --
тАЬрд╕реБрдирд╛рд╕рд┐рдХреЗрди рдХрд╛рдпреЗрди рднреВрддреНрд╡рд╛ рдЪрдиреНрджреНрд░рдкреНрд░рднрд╕реНрддрджрд╛ ред
рдХреГрддреНрд╡рд╛ рд╣рдпрд╢рд┐рд░рдГ рд╢реБрднреНрд░рдВ рд╡реЗрджрд╛рдирд╛рдорд╛рд▓рдпрдВ рдкреНрд░рднреБрдГ рее
рддрд╕реНрдп рдореВрд░реНрджреНрдзрд╛ рд╕рдорднрд╡рддреН рджреНрдпреМрдГ рд╕рдирдХреНрд╖рддреНрд░рддрд╛рд░рдХрд╛ ред
рдХреЗрд╢рд╛рд╢реНрдЪрд╛рд╕реНрдпрд╛рднрд╡рджреНрджреАрд░реНрдШрд╛ рд░рд╡реЗрд░рдВрд╢реБрд╕рдордкреНрд░рднрд╛рдГ рее
рдХрд░реНрдгрд╛рд╡рд╛рдХрд╛рд╢рдкрд╛рддрд╛рд▓реЗ рд▓рд▓рд╛рдЯрдВ рднреВрддрдзрд╛рд░рд┐рдгреА ред
рдЧрдЩреНрдЧрд╛ рд╕рд░рд╕реНрд╡рддреА рд╢реНрд░реЛрдгреНрдпреМ рднреНрд░реБрд╡рд╛рд╡рд╛рд╕реНрддрд╛рдВ рдорд╣реЛрджрдзреА рее
рдЪрдХреНрд╖реБрд╖реА рд╕реЛрдорд╕реВрд░реНрдпреНрдпреМ рддреЗ рдирд╛рд╕рд╛ рд╕рдиреНрдзреНрдпрд╛ рдкреБрдирдГ рд╕реНрдореГрддрд╛ ред
рдкреНрд░рдгрд╡рд╕реНрддреНрд╡рде рд╕рдВрд╕реНрдХрд╛рд░реЛ рд╡рд┐рджреНрдпреБрдЬреНрдЬрд┐рд╣реНрд╡рд╛ рдЪ рдирд┐рд░реНрдореНрдорд┐рддрд╛ рее
рджрдиреНрддрд╛рд╢реНрдЪ рдкрд┐рддрд░реЛ рд░рд╛рдЬрдиреН рд╕реЛрдордкрд╛ рдЗрддрд┐ рд╡рд┐рд╢реНрд░реБрддрд╛рдГ ред
рдЧреЛрд▓реЛрдХреЛ рдмреНрд░рд╣реНрдорд▓реЛрдХрд╢реНрдЪ рдУрд╖реНрдард╛рд╡рд╛рд╕реНрддрд╛рдВ рдорд╣рд╛рддреНрдордирдГ рее
рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛ рдЪрд╛рд╕реНрдпрд╛рднрд╡рджреНрд░рд╛рдЬрдиреН рдХрд╛рд▓рд░рд╛рддреНрд░рд┐рд░реНрдЧреБрдгреЛрддреНрддрд░рд╛ ред
рдПрддрджреНрдзрдпрд╢рд┐рд░рдГ рдХреГрддреНрд╡рд╛ рдирд╛рдирд╛рдореВрд░реНрддреНрддрд┐рднрд┐рд░рд╛рд╡реГрддрдореН реетАЭ
рдЗрддрд┐ рдорд╣рд╛рднрд╛рд░рддрдореН рее * рее
(рд╣рд╡рдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рджреИрддреНрдпрд╡рдзрд╛рд░реНрдердореЗрд╡ рднрдЧрд╡рд╛рдиреН рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдореВрд░реНрддреНрддрд┐-
рд░рднрд╡рддреН ред рдЗрддрд┐ рджреЗрд╡реАрднрд╛рдЧрд╡рддрдорддрдореН рее рдЕрд╕реНрдп
рд╡рд┐рд╡рд░рдгрдиреНрддреБ рддрддреНрд░реИрд╡ рез рд╕реНрдХрдиреНрдзреЗ рел рдЕрдзреНрдпрд╛рдпреЗ рджреНрд░рд╖реНрдЯрд╡реНрдпрдореН ред)
рд╡рд┐рд╖реНрдгреБрд╡рдзреНрдпрджреИрддреНрдпрд╡рд┐рд╢реЗрд╖рдГ ред рдЗрддрд┐ рд╣реЗрдордЪрдиреНрджреНрд░рдГ рее рд╕ рдЪ
рдХрд▓реНрдкрд╛рдиреНрддреЗ рдмреНрд░рд╣реНрдорд╛рдгрд┐ рдкреНрд░рд╕реБрдкреНрддреЗ рд╡реЗрджрдВ рд╣реГрддрд╡рд╛рдиреН ред рддрджреНрд╡реЗрджреЛ-
рджреНрдзрд╛рд░рдгрд╛рд░реНрдердВ рд╡рд┐рд╖реНрдгреБрдирд╛ рдорддреНрд╕реНрдпрд╛рд╡рддрд╛рд░реЗрдг рд╕ рд╣рддрдГ ред
рдЗрддрд┐ рдХреЗрдЪрд┐рддреН рее * рее рдЖрдк рдЪ ред
тАЬрд╡реГрджреНрдзрдЧрдЩреНрдЧрд╛рдЬрд▓рд╕реНрдпрд╛рдиреНрддрдиреНрддреАрд░реЗ рдмреНрд░рд╣реНрдорд╕реБрддрд╕реНрдп рдЪ ред
рд╡рд┐рд╢реНрд╡рдирд╛рдерд╛рд╣реНрд╡рдпреЛ рджреЗрд╡рдГ рд╢рд┐рд╡рд▓рд┐рдЩреНрдЧрдордордиреНрд╡рд┐рддрдГ ред
рд╡рд┐рд╢реНрд╡рджреЗрд╡реА рдорд╣рд╛рджреЗрд╡реА рдпреЛрдирд┐рдордгреНрдбрд▓рд░реВрдкрд┐рдгреА рее
рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡реЗрдг рдпреБрдпреБрдзреЗ рддрддреНрд░ рджреЗрд╡реЛ рдЬрдЧрддреНрдкрддрд┐рдГ ред
рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рдВ рдпрддреНрд░ рд╣рддреНрд╡рд╛ рдордгрд┐рдХреВрдЯрдВ рддрдерд╛рдЧрдорддреН реетАЭ
рдЗрддрд┐ рдХрд╛рд▓рд┐рдХрд╛рдкреБрд░рд╛рдгреЗ реореи рдЕрдзреНрдпрд╛рдпрдГ рее

рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛, рд╕реНрддреНрд░реА, рджреБрд░реНрдЧрд╛ ред рдпрдерд╛, --

тАЬрдирд╛рд░рд╕рд┐рдВрд╣реА рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡рд╛ рд╣рд┐рд░рдгреНрдпрд╛рдХреНрд╖рд╡рд┐рдирд╛рд╢рд┐рдиреА редтАЭ
рдЗрддрд┐ рддрд╕реНрдпрд╛рдГ рд╕рд╣рд╕реНрд░рдирд╛рдорд╕реНрддреЛрддреНрд░рдореН рее

Also under Hayashirsha:

рд╣рдпрд╢реАрд░реНрд╖рдГ, рдкреБрдВ, (рд╣рдпрд╕реНрдп рд╢реАрд░реНрд╖рдВ рдпрд╕реНрдп ред)

рд╡рд┐рд╖реНрдгреБрдГ ред рдпрдерд╛, --
тАЬрддрддреЛ рдЬрдЧрд╛рдо рд╣реГрд╖реНрдЯреЛрд╜рдмреНрдзреМ рджреНрд░рд╖реНрдЯреБрдВ рд╡рд╛рдЬрд┐рдореБрдЦрдВ
рдкреНрд░рднреБрдореН ред
рддрддреНрд░ рджреЗрд╡рд╣реНрд░рджреЗ рд╕реНрдирд╛рддреНрд╡рд╛ рддрд░реНрдкрдпрд┐рддреНрд╡рд╛ рдкрд┐рддреДрдиреН рд╕реБрд░рд╛рдиреН ред
рд╕рдВрдкреВрдЬреНрдп рд╣рдпрд╢реАрд░реНрд╖рдЮреНрдЪ рдЬрдЧрд╛рдо рдЧрдЬрд╕рд╛рд╣реНрд╡рдпрдореН реетАЭ
рдЗрддрд┐ рд╡рд╛рдордирдкреБрд░рд╛рдгреЗ ренрез рдЕрдзреНрдпрд╛рдпрдГ рее


Nagaraj Paturi

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Oct 2, 2018, 12:09:07тАпAM10/2/18
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Sri Sitaram-ji,

You started the thread with a question similar to the question about two different English pronunciations of the same spelling in 'put ' and 'but' . Why the word griva should mean two different things in two different samasas, kambugriva and hayagriva ? Now you are gradually moving into "this corruption came into our mythology".┬а

Children understand Harry Potter stories, Narnia stories , believe in/enjoy the stories of┬а lions speaking in human voice and participating in human politics and so on.┬а

Half animal half human forms etc. are easily accepted by them as part of such an imaginative world.┬а

If we can explain to them the encryption aspects in such representations of Vedic concepts, this data security hacking obsessed generation can easily understand.┬а┬а
Nagaraj Paturi
┬а
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
┬а
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of┬а┬аLiberal Education,
┬а
(Pune, Maharashtra,┬аINDIA┬а)
┬а
┬а
┬а

Gopalan Sampath

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Oct 2, 2018, 7:28:58тАпAM10/2/18
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I agree with Shri Nagaraj Paturi entirely. If we take pains at first to clear our perceptions, convincing children or correcting the childhood logic should not be a problem. Faith and belief is the core.
Even in science there are theories like quantum mechanics and relativity which can solve problems but in a different approach. They too have conflicts. But one theory is not banished because of conflict. Both are applied where appropriate and validated.
Children fortunately may throw unbounded questions but can also be convinced if explained.
My 2c worth!

рд╕реАрддрд╛рд░рд╛рдо

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Oct 2, 2018, 8:32:19тАпAM10/2/18
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In my thinking I was clear when I made this statement in my OP
"рдХрдореНрдмреБрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ people do not put a conch in the place of a Rama's head. But at the same time when рд╣рдпрдЧреНрд░реАрд╡ reference comes people depict him with a horse head" Can someone please help me understand this discrepancy?

I am sorry if I did not make it clear. I will more careful in the future.
Thank you all for your feedback

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