कम्बुग्रीव - हयग्रीव

[सीताराम]

I find it very interesting to see the representation of these two words - 

in रामायणम् - राम was described as कम्बुग्रीव  

कम्बुग्रीव people do not put a conch in the place of a Rama's head. But at the same time when हयग्रीव reference comes people depict him with a horse head. 

Can someone please help me understand this discrepancy?  

I think because Conch can not speak & have human features. This problem does not arise if you put a horse head. Conch does not have a well formed mouth but a horse does to recite words. 

उष्ट्र इव मुखं यस्य - उष्ट्रमुखम् 

कम्बु इव ग्रीवं यस्य - कम्बुग्रीव

हय इव ग्रीवं यस्य - हयग्रीव  

Is there any other type of समास one can do to resolve this problem?

Thanks for your help

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धन्यवाद: - राम 

[Hnbhat B.R.]

कम्बुरिव ग्रीवा यस्य स कम्बुग्रीवः! Correct. उपमितसमासः! with कम्बुः 

But हयस्येव मुखं यस्य स हयग्रीवः In this, it is not horse that is conpared, but the face of horse conpared with the face of हयग्रीव. So that is not any discrepancy at all in the description, but  it's a fact described. Error is in yound formation.

Please follow the gender of the words in the components of your compound formation.

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[psho...@gmail.com]

There's also an avatar of Vishnu with horse's head:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva

Probably that's the basis of portraying Rama also with a horse's head.

A Sanskrit-Malayalam dictionary lists words such as कम्बुग्रीवा, कम्बुग्रीवः, कम्बुकण्ठः, कम्बुकण्ठी, etc., to mean 'shell-necked', i.e., someone beautiful, handsome, etc., 

हयग्रीवः meanings are listed as 'horse-necked', Vishnu, the asura who stole the vedas, etc.,

The dictionary also lists a word हयग्रीवहन् (हयग्रीवहा in nominative singular) as a synonym for Vishnu because in his avatara as Matsya, he kills this asura हयग्रीवः and rescues the vedas. Thus, both हयग्रीवः and हयग्रीवहा mean Vishnu. 

As an aside, the tortoise that falls to its death mid-flight (a Panchatantra story) has कम्बुग्रीव as its name:

https://www.culturalindia.net/indian-folktales/panchatantra-tales/talkative-tortoise.html

The story in Panchatantra begins like  this: अस्ति कस्मिंश्चिज्जलाशये कम्बुग्रीवो नाम कच्छपः।

I think it'll make a great name for a pet tortoise (of course only when it has come out of its shell and its neck is visible :D)

[सीताराम]

Horse necked should not be depicted as shown in the image below - that was my issue.

The picture did not appear like Horse neck, someone managed to put a horse head on human shoulder. Is this representation correct?

Written sciprt was not invented till much later times, so how did Vishnu rescue orally transmitted Vedas? Wrong representation can ruin many things.

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[KN.Ramesh]

Kambujaya Greevaam Nata Devaam - dikshitar 2nd navavarna kriti

are kambujaya greevaam and kambugreevam denote the same meaning?

[Ravi Mamparambath]

This is the idol at Pondicherry Sri Lakshmi Hayagreev

Dr. M. R. Ravi

9249582664

[Hnbhat B.R.]

It is not the question of samasa of hayagreeva, but the you doubt about the incarnation,]]Here is the vicky article on Hayagreeva:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayagriva

It contains legends of Hayagreeva and iinformation on the temples devoted to this deity.. In any case, hyagreeva means horse faced whether someone fitted to a human body by surgery or as incarnation of Vishnu.

[सीताराम]

Thank you Dr. Bhat, 

So in essence instead of investing why this corruption came into our mythology we have to accept the temples, status and wiki article as authentic information about our texts. 

Thats definitely a good way to perpetuate ignorance to next generation.  What will be the next step in degeneration, that some centaur sitting in sky will punish me if I do not pray to him. Is this the division we are supposed to pass to the next generation? 

Believe it or not kids ask questions like, why we worship a stone who cannot move, Why he has horse face. I guess we can just tell them to shut up or call it blasphemy and give them time outs. 

[Vardhan Taltaje]

Shri Sitarama,

Though Hayagriva is the popular name and it literally translates to one having Horse's neck, the Purana story indicates that the face was also of a horse.

This information is from the 'Purana-Nama-Chudamani' book of 1958 edition in Kannada, which describes in brief how Vishnu got horse's face. It quotes Devi-Bhagavata (1-5) and MahaBharata Udyoga parva (130) as the sources. There were also two Rakshasas by same name and one of them was killed by Vishnu (again sources are Devi-Bhagavata 1-5, MahaBharata Shanti Parva 122, 347, 357). All these are from the same book.

Hope this helps you to check this further. If you want, I can take photos of the relevant pages from the book and post it here, but note that it is in Kannada.

[Hnbhat B.R.]

Here is the description from Shabdakalpadruma:

हयग्रीवः, पुं, (हयस्य ग्रीवा इव ग्रीवा यस्य ।)

मधुकटभहृतवेदोद्धारार्थं विष्णारवतारविशेषः ।

तस्य रूपं यथा, --

“सुनासिकेन कायेन भूत्वा चन्द्रप्रभस्तदा ।

कृत्वा हयशिरः शुभ्रं वेदानामालयं प्रभुः ॥

तस्य मूर्द्धा समभवत् द्यौः सनक्षत्रतारका ।

केशाश्चास्याभवद्दीर्घा रवेरंशुसमप्रभाः ॥

कर्णावाकाशपाताले ललाटं भूतधारिणी ।

गङ्गा सरस्वती श्रोण्यौ भ्रुवावास्तां महोदधी ॥

चक्षुषी सोमसूर्य्यौ ते नासा सन्ध्या पुनः स्मृता ।

प्रणवस्त्वथ संस्कारो विद्युज्जिह्वा च निर्म्मिता ॥

दन्ताश्च पितरो राजन् सोमपा इति विश्रुताः ।

गोलोको ब्रह्मलोकश्च ओष्ठावास्तां महात्मनः ॥

ग्रीवा चास्याभवद्राजन् कालरात्रिर्गुणोत्तरा ।

एतद्धयशिरः कृत्वा नानामूर्त्तिभिरावृतम् ॥”

इति महाभारतम् ॥ * ॥

(हवग्रीवदैत्यवधार्थमेव भगवान् हयग्रीवमूर्त्ति-

रभवत् । इति देवीभागवतमतम् ॥ अस्य

विवरणन्तु तत्रैव १ स्कन्धे ५ अध्याये द्रष्टव्यम् ।)

विष्णुवध्यदैत्यविशेषः । इति हेमचन्द्रः ॥ स च

कल्पान्ते ब्रह्माणि प्रसुप्ते वेदं हृतवान् । तद्वेदो-

द्धारणार्थं विष्णुना मत्स्यावतारेण स हतः ।

इति केचित् ॥ * ॥ आप च ।

“वृद्धगङ्गाजलस्यान्तन्तीरे ब्रह्मसुतस्य च ।

विश्वनाथाह्वयो देवः शिवलिङ्गममन्वितः ।

विश्वदेवी महादेवी योनिमण्डलरूपिणी ॥

हयग्रीवेण युयुधे तत्र देवो जगत्पतिः ।

हयग्रीवं यत्र हत्वा मणिकूटं तथागमत् ॥”

इति कालिकापुराणे ८२ अध्यायः ॥

हयग्रीवा, स्त्री, दुर्गा । यथा, --

“नारसिंही हयग्रीवा हिरण्याक्षविनाशिनी ।”

इति तस्याः सहस्रनामस्तोत्रम् ॥

Also under Hayashirsha:

हयशीर्षः, पुं, (हयस्य शीर्षं यस्य ।)

विष्णुः । यथा, --

“ततो जगाम हृष्टोऽब्धौ द्रष्टुं वाजिमुखं

प्रभुम् ।

तत्र देवह्रदे स्नात्वा तर्पयित्वा पितॄन् सुरान् ।

संपूज्य हयशीर्षञ्च जगाम गजसाह्वयम् ॥”

इति वामनपुराणे ७१ अध्यायः ॥

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Sitaram-ji,

You started the thread with a question similar to the question about two different English pronunciations of the same spelling in 'put ' and 'but' . Why the word griva should mean two different things in two different samasas, kambugriva and hayagriva ? Now you are gradually moving into "this corruption came into our mythology". 

Children understand Harry Potter stories, Narnia stories , believe in/enjoy the stories of  lions speaking in human voice and participating in human politics and so on. 

Half animal half human forms etc. are easily accepted by them as part of such an imaginative world. 

If we can explain to them the encryption aspects in such representations of Vedic concepts, this data security hacking obsessed generation can easily understand.  

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director, Indic Academy of Sanskrit and Indological Studies.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Gopalan Sampath]

I agree with Shri Nagaraj Paturi entirely. If we take pains at first to clear our perceptions, convincing children or correcting the childhood logic should not be a problem. Faith and belief is the core.
Even in science there are theories like quantum mechanics and relativity which can solve problems but in a different approach. They too have conflicts. But one theory is not banished because of conflict. Both are applied where appropriate and validated.
Children fortunately may throw unbounded questions but can also be convinced if explained.
My 2c worth!

[सीताराम]

In my thinking I was clear when I made this statement in my OP

"कम्बुग्रीव people do not put a conch in the place of a Rama's head. But at the same time when हयग्रीव reference comes people depict him with a horse head" Can someone please help me understand this discrepancy?

I am sorry if I did not make it clear. I will more careful in the future.

Thank you all for your feedback

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