Vedic signs ardhavisarga and rotated ardhavisarga

[Arvind_Kolhatkar]

Dear Group,

While browsing the Unicode site unicode.org I came across these
captioned terms. I do not know what they are or mean. I request
experts to explain them, with examples, if possible, of how they
sound?

Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, January 29, 2010.

[hnbhat B.R.]

I think there is no such phoneme as अर्धविसर्ग, but only to aspirate phonemes in euphony  before the letters belonging to कवर्ग and पवर्ग. (क, ख, प and फ) for the normal विसर्ग (ः). This phoneme is represented by two semicircles inverted in Devanagari script which is described as अर्धविसर्गसदृश resembling half visarga. If two circles perpendicularly placed are विसर्ग, the two semicircles may be called अर्धविसर्ग. In itrans software, 

About rotated "ardhavisarga" I have no idea. May be some special euphony in Vedic language according to rules of articulation as per प्रातिशख्य-s. But I do not have any acquaintance with them. There are several of them, only Vedic scholars would recognize them. If I can see the gif image, I could have been able to say something, if possible. I could not see anything in the link. The above is also a guess only with the help of my limited knowledge of grammar of Sanskrit.

Hope some one would come forward with some help.

With regards

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[naresh keerthi]

I believe this ardha-visarga-sadRSa is called the jihvAmUlIya.

[hnbhat B.R.]

Thanks.

Rightly said by Naresh. Both जिह्वामूलीय and उपाध्मानीय are called अर्धविसर्गसदृश. Both are used to represent a different pronunciation of the normal विसर्ग before क, ख, प and फ as per the rule कुप्वो x क x पौ (८।४।३). I have used x only here as I do not have the font. I forgot to mention the names in my post.

With regrds

[Vidya R]

I believe the ardhavisargas are of 2 types -> jihvAmUlIya and upadmAnIya.  

1.  visarga followed by p, ph is upadmAnIya.   (namaH pArvatI...)

2.  visarga followed by k, kh is jihvAmUlIya  (rAmaH khalu vIraH)

Both are pronounced as 'half visargas'. And, in earlier publications / typesettings (printed matter), these 2 symbols (2 semicircles each, in upadmAnIya oriented 'oppositely' from jihvAmUliYa) are to be seen.

I am not sure if 'duHka' falls under category 2 above.  (visarga embedded in a word, as opposed to occurring between 2 words).

Vidya

---

From: hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 12:27:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Vedic signs ardhavisarga and rotated ardhavisarga

[Ajit Krishnan]

namaste,

> If I can see the gif image, I could
> have been able to say something, if possible.

Please see the page numbered 100 in the following document --

http://tdil.mit.gov.in/VedicCodeSetOct02.pdf

bhavadiiyaH,

   ajit

[Vinodh Rajan]

Hi,

The Ardha Visarga is used to represent, the Vedic sounds - Jihvamuliya [Voiceless Velar Fricative] & Upadhmaniya [Voiceless Bilabial Fricative].

In Vedic Sandhi, the Visarga when followed by the Voiceless Velar Plosives [ka & kha] becomes Jihvaamuuliiya. In a similar way, when the Visarga is followed by a Voiceless Bilabial Plosives it becomes Upadhmaaniiya. In both the cases the phonemes are represented using the same character - Ardha-Visarga.

Some publications use the rotated Ardha Visarga to distinctly differentiate between Jihvamuliya and Upadhmaniya.

V

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Arvind_Kolhatkar <kolhat...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[hnbhat B.R.]

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Vinodh Rajan <vinodh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

The Ardha Visarga is used to represent, the Vedic sounds - Jihvamuliya [Voiceless Velar Fricative] & Upadhmaniya [Voiceless Bilabial Fricative].

In Vedic Sandhi, the Visarga when followed by the Voiceless Velar Plosives [ka & kha] becomes Jihvaamuuliiya. In a similar way, when the Visarga is followed by a Voiceless Bilabial Plosives it becomes Upadhmaaniiya. In both the cases the phonemes are represented using the same character - Ardha-Visarga.

Some publications use the rotated Ardha Visarga to distinctly differentiate between Jihvamuliya and Upadhmaniya.

Hi,

It is not Vedic usage at all. "अर्धविसर्गसदृशौ जिह्वामूलीयोपाध्मानीयौ" is the description of these two prescribed in general by the Paninian rule:  कुप्वोXकXपौ among the Sandhi rules. And illustrated as 
वृक्षXखनति, वृक्षः खनति। वृक्षXपचति, वृक्षः पचति। वृक्षXफलति, वृक्षः फलति। etc. which are not at all Vedic usages.

About Rotated Visarga, I do not have any idea. 

There is one sign to represent nasal vowels after a consonant:

ँ  as दधिँ  मधुँ कुमारीँ etc. as per  Panini sUtra 8.4.57 “अणो ऽप्रगृह्यस्यानुनासिकः " . But these are not used in normal language nor represented in printed texts anyhow. In Vedic texts these are found represented differently before certain vowels with अनुस्वार  in Yajurveda texts generally. I do not have this symbol. This might have been termed as Rotated Ardhavisarga as it is put above the single half visarga. or अर्धविसर्ग.

With regards

[Vinodh Rajan]

Oh thanks. I thought the phonemes were specifically Vedic.

~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW you can find the image of Ardha Visarga here.

http://www.virtualvinodh.com/grantha-lipitva/162-grantha-3-consonants-ka

The Rotated Ardha Visarga looks something like this.

http://www.virtualvinodh.com/images/stories/Rotated_ArdhaVisarga.png

V

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[hnbhat B.R.]

proper visarga: two circles:

Thank you for the png image of rotated ardhavisarga:

This may be another form of the two called उपाध्मानीय and जिह्वामूलीय in older prints represented as:

Exactly the same rotated clockwise. Nothing special phoneme I hope than the above used in special fonts used for Vedic texts. I am not sure of it. But it is the same rotated here, but no description is available for the use of sign rotated.

Thank you all for the co-operation to see the ardhavisarga and rotated ardhavisarga now with the help of Vinod, I am able to juxtapose both in this message.

If anybody familiar with the use of this rotated ardha-visarga in this forum, we may expect his explanation for the use of it. Let us hope for better.

[Vinodh Rajan]

Dear Hari,

A friend of mine, Shriramana Sharma had originally proposed it to Unicode. (I have CC'd him)

The Image was from his proposal to Unicode.

To quote from his proposal, the rotated Ardha Visarga is used to distinctly represent the Jihvaamuuliya by some people.

If any one needs more details on the Character, please drop him a mail.

V

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[Jay]

Would all these signs denote different pronunciations?
It would be a great value if someone can document different pronunciations and put on youtube.

[hnbhat B.R.]

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Jay <zoom...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Would all these signs denote different pronunciations?
> It would be a great value if someone can document different pronunciations
> and put on youtube.

Dear Vinod,

Is there a remote possibility that Sriramana Sharma would be able to
produce them in the context they appear in the Vedic Literature, if he
is the same person I know referred to by the member Vinod (who
provided the unicode png image for rotated ardhavisarga). Can you
contact him for us in this matter?

One Sriramana I know is a great Vedic Scholar and Grammarian, who is
heading a traditional Veda Pathashala presently in the native place of
Sri Scchidanadabrahmendra Saraswati,[ a Vedantin and renowned Composer
of his time (equally avadhuta)].

I got a valuable information from him that लृ ए ओ ऎ औ have long and
short pronunciations too in some of the Vedic recensions according to
Mahabhashya (but presently no such recension is available). According
to grammarians, the first has no long vowel and pluta (except in some
special case), and the others do not have short vowels. Some body
asked me this question to me and got it clarified from him when he
visited our Institution.

Probably he may be the same one as he is now trying to produced
Unicode for Grantha characters used for writing Sanskrit in Tamilnadu
(before Devanagari script was popularized in prints in South).

With regards

[Vinodh Rajan]

Yes.

 

He is the same Shriramana Sharma :-)

 

I will ask him if I can share his proposal in this list.

 

V

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[hnbhat B.R.]

Dear Vinod,

Thank you very much.

I too am interested in the pronunciation of these symbols  as they are optional sandhi forms, mostly avoided in normal texts.

[Pramod Tripathi]

ᳲ जिह्वामूलीय , उपध्मानीय ( ᳲ )

शनिवार, 29 जनवरी 2011 को 9:27:43 अपर UTC+5:30 को, Arvind_Kolhatkar ने लिखा:

[Mohan Chettoor]

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[Mohan Chettoor]

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 08:35 Pramod Tripathi, <pramod...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Irene Galstian]

Where are these scans from, please?

Thank you,
Irene

>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/f210b422-d27d-4950-8bac-d02f8c2871c9o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>>
>
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[Mohan Chettoor]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CAFPaCQNz%2B-ArC_RP3F5c4chTpLqXgUeou%2BXOJhiweLx3s5ZeCQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Irene Galstian]

Thank you, Sir.

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CAFPaCQNz%2B-ArC_RP3F5c4chTpLqXgUeou%2BXOJhiweLx3s5ZeCQ%40mail.gmail.com

>> .
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[ken p]

जिह्वामूलीय , उपध्मानीय.......

https://youtu.be/fImJpE1PGno

[Hnbhat B.R.]

विसर्जनीयस्य कुप्वोः ≍क≍पौ विसर्जनीयः च ... रामः कः → रामःकः, राम≍कः [कुप्वोः ≍क≍पौ च ८|३|३७ इति विसर्गस्य विकल्पेन जिह्वामूलीयः।

रामः पातुः → रामःपातुः, राम≍पातु [कुप्वोः ≍क≍पौ च ८|३|३७ इति विसर्गस्य विकल्पेन उपध्मानीयः]

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020, 3:13 am ken p, <drk...@gmail.com> wrote:

जिह्वामूलीय , उपध्मानीय.......

https://youtu.be/fImJpE1PGno

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