Meaning of : रविर्विलोचन सूर्य: सविता रवि लोचन:

[Samba]

Hi,

I would like to know the meaning of the following couplet (94th verse of the total 108 verses) from Vishnu Sahasra Naama Sthothraas:

विहाय सगतिर्ज्योती: सुरुचि र्हुत भुग्विभु:
रविर्विलोचन  सूर्य: सविता रवि लोचन:    

I'm particularly interested to understand the meaning of the Second line in the above couplet. 

Thanks and Regards,
Samba

[DEV RAJ]

> रविर्विलोचन सूर्य: सविता रवि लोचन:

884. ravih -
a) The Sun in his uttarayana or Summer solstice.
b) He Who is responsible for the ability of all cetana-s and acetana-s
to make sound.
c) He Who is praised by His devotees.

Om ravaye namah.

885. virocanah -
a) The Illuminant (the year).
b) He of various splendors - such as Sun, moon, day, night, etc.
c) He Who shines in the minds of His devotees in various special ways.
d) He Who gave special sight (divya cakshus) to arjuna, sa'njaya etc.
(vi-locanah).

om virocanaya namaH.

886. suryah -
a) The source of movement in the form of wind.
b) He Who brings forth everything, or He Who brings forth wealth.
c) One who generates Sri or brilliance in surya or agni (sacred
fire).
d) He because of Whom we get enlightenment.

Om suryaya namah.

887. savita -
a) He Who produces or brings forth the crops etc., in the form of the
Sun.
b) He Who brings forth everything in the Universe (including the sun
etc.).

om savitre namah.

888. ravi-locanah -
a) He Who illuminates (through the rays of the sun).
b) He that has the Sun for His eye.
c) He from Whose eyes the Sun was born.
d) He Who is fond of praise.

om ravi-locanaya namah.

https://www.trsiyengar.com/id78.shtml

[Samba]

Thanks for such detailed explanation Dev Raj,

Actually I have question regarding the interpretation and should have framed the question that way but hesitated from influencing others opinion.

Since "lochana" meaning "eye" or "eyesight", can this line be read as :

Ravi is the "eye" of Soorya while Savitha is the "sight" of "Ravi"?

I can quote several reasons as to why Savitha or Ravi are not exact synonyms of Surya but indicate various forms/features of the Sun.

I have reasons to believe (can quote references, later) that Savitha is Sun Light and thus "savithaa ravi lochana".

I have an interesting hypothesis behind this analysis, so can you please confirm if such a reasoning can be made?

Thanks and Regards,
Samba

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

You please propose your hyoothesis and then ask for others' opinions on it.


Or first you can refer to the available commentaries by Sri Shankaracharya and many other Acharya-s on the word before putting forward your hypothesis.

Waiting for your hypothesis explaining why do you differ from the interpretations of Acharya's.

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
Research Scholar,

Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry

16 & 19, Rue Dumas

Pondichéry - 605 001

[Samba]

I'm presenting here my interpretation of a few verses (in no particular order) of Savitha Sooktham from Rug Vedham.

Savitha Sooktham

आक्रुष्णेन रजसा वर्तमानो निवेशयन्नम्रुतं मर्त्यंच

हिरण्ययेन सवितारधेनादेवो याति भुवना निपश्यन्

The Sun-Light is coming to us, again and again, through the dark outer space on a pure golden chariot illuminating objects that come in its way thus differentiating the living from the non-living.

It is to be noted that the Sun is not coming towards the earth, it is the Sun's light that is coming towards us.

याति देवः प्रवतायात्युद्वता याति शुभ्राभ्याम यजतोहरिभ्याम 

    आदेवो यातिसविता परावतोअप विश्वादुरिता बादमान: 

The god(dess) of sun(light) comes to earth ascending and descending by taking the forms of (seven) pure horses (colors); the goddess comes from very far off places to shed the troubles of this world (by illuminating the obstacles).

If we presume that Savitha is Sun light, it can be easily understood that the Sun light is consists of (driven by) seven pure colours (horses), which is actually explaining the phenomenon of VIBGYOR.

It is unfortunate that the modern scholars (including Saayana Aachaarya), having interpreted Savitha as Sun, explained this verse as if the Sun appears rising up until noon and then appears falling till the evening.

Actually, the ascent and descent of the (sun) light travelling from Sun to Earth can be explained by the fact that the light travels in the form of transverse waves (crests and troughs); the wave nature of light being established in next verse.

विसुपर्णो अन्तरिक्षाण्य्खत् गभीर वेपा असुरः सुनीदः
क्वेइदानीम् सूर्यःकस्चिकेत कतमान्द्याम् रस्मिरस्याततानः

The straight rays of sun-light illuminating the outer space travel at very high frequency; does anyone know where the Sun goes to during nights and which worlds it illuminates?

येथे पन्थाः सवितः पूर्व्यासो अरेणवः सुक्रुता अन्तरिक्षे 
तेभिर्नो अद्यपधिभिः सुगेभी रक्षाचनो अधिच ब्रूहिदेव

The paths in which the Sun-Light travels were established long before, well-formed, and are devoid (free) of any particles. O goddess of light, come across the space and illuminate our world

Another interesting note can be drawn from the Sarpa Sooktham from Yajur Vedham which explains the wave motion of light by drawing a parallel to the crawling or a snake; that slokam purports to worship the snakes in the sky because the Sun(light) travels through the Vyomam or Antha Riksham with the help of snakes (waves).

It is sad tale that the nation which first explained to the world about he wave nature of light thousands of years ago have been mocked at as a nation of snake charmers!.

Is my interpretation faulty? doesn't  these verses talk about sun light, travelling a t a very high speed, and with the highest frequency, with the medium (ether, which i'll explain later) trembling violently when the light passes through it, coming to earth in the form of transverse waves (having crests and troughs, i.e. ups and downs)?

Isn't Sarpa Sooktham a tribute to the wave nature of light which is actually  explained in Savitha Sooktham?

Dear experts, please read through those verses a few times and judge whether this hypothesis can stand critical examination!

Thanks and Regards,
Samba
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hnbhat B.R.]

No comments.

It is a recent trend to read the modern knowledge of science into Vedic Science into any vedic passage changing the traditional interpretations as foolish and ignorant ones of modern Science. 

Everybody is free to read his own knowledge into Vedic passages as the words are not in common usage like every theory of physics, astronomy is not know to any laymant except the scientists.

[murthy]

I am afraid this sort of reading science into our ancient scriptures leads us no where. What is important is the methodology of science and not the results of science. If some results of science coincide with some observations of sages it is just coincidence and nothing more.

Regards

Murthy

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Science has its domain so has our Vedas, Reading twentieth century science into our Vedas makes no sense. Why does Vedas have to satisfy science? Its a science by itself and its scope and is well defined. Please understand the scope of Vedas it domain is not explain science neither does it it seek support from science nor does our Vedas need support of science. Its complete by itself.

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari

2012/4/22 murthy <murt...@gmail.com>

[Dr P Narayanan]

There are too many silly spelling mistakes in the सवितृसूक्तम् ( Note that even the term  Savitha Sooktham  as quoted by Samba is grammatically incorrect) quoted by Samba. 

आक्रुष्णेन रजसा वर्तमानो निवेशयन्नम्रुतं मर्त्यंच

हिरण्ययेन सवितारधेनादेवो याति भुवना निपश्यन्

याति देवः प्रवतायात्युद्वता याति शुभ्राभ्याम यजतोहरिभ्याम 

    आदेवो यातिसविता परावतोअप विश्वादुरिता बादमान: 

विसुपर्णो अन्तरिक्षाण्य्खत् गभीर वेपा असुरः सुनीदः

क्वेइदानीम् सूर्यःकस्चिकेत कतमान्द्याम् रस्मिरस्याततानः

येथे पन्थाः सवितः पूर्व्यासो अरेणवः सुक्रुता अन्तरिक्षे 

तेभिर्नो अद्यपधिभिः सुगेभी रक्षाचनो अधिच ब्रूहिदेव

The correct version is as follows:

आ कृष्णेन रजसा वर्तमानो निवेशयन्नमृतं मर्त्यं च ।

हिरण्ययेन सविता रथेना देवो याति भुवनानि पश्यन् ।।

याति देवः प्रवता यात्युद्वता याति शुभ्राभ्यां यजतो हरिभ्याम्  ।

आ देवो याति सविता परावतो अप विश्वा दुरिता बाधमान: ।।

वि सुपर्णो अन्तरिक्षाण्यख्यत् गभीरवेपा असुरः सुनीथः।
क्वेदानीम् सूर्यःकश्चिकेत कतमान्द्याम् रश्मिरस्याततान ।।

ये ते पन्थाः सवितः पूर्व्यासो अरेणवः सुकृता अन्तरिक्षे ।
तेभिर्नो अद्य पथिभिः सुगेभी रक्षा च नो अधि च ब्रूहि देव ।।

I would suggest that a person who tries to make a "hypothesis" study the original verses thoroughly. 

[Dr P Narayanan]

Dear Samba,

It is not रविर्विलोचन  सूर्य: सविता रवि लोचन:, but रविर्विरोचनः  सूर्य: सविता रविलोचन:।

The meaning you try to put forward “Ravi is the "eye" of Soorya while Savitha is the "sight" of "Ravi"” is neither grammatically feasible nor logical.

Your hypothesis brings to my mind a “hypothesis” once put forward by one of my friends in my first year of study of B.A.M.S. course. There is a verse in Charaka Samhita, which reads:

खादीन्यात्मा मनः कालो दिशश्च द्रव्यसंग्रहः ।

which roughly translates as “In brief the dravyas are the five mahabhUtas starting from kha (आकाश), Atman, manas, kAla and dik (thus nine)”. My friend, who is a blatant anti-Congress postulated the meaning of the verse like this: खादीनि= those who wear Khadi, आत्मा मनः कालः= spirit and mind are black, दिशश्च द्रव्यसंग्रहः= collect properties from all the directions. When I started objecting pointing first that the word खादीनि is in neuter gender and therefore cannot mean “those who wear Khadi”, the friend replied, “ The Sage meant much of contempt to those persons and therefore did not want to use masculine or even feminine gender to describe them”, whereupon I made a hasty retreat with tight lips. Such hypotheses can serve no more purpose than adding to a stock of jokes.

Dr. P. Narayanan

Resident Medical Officer

Govt. Ayurveda Medical College and Hospital

Nagercoil (TN)

[Samba]

I'm trying to say that the Vedhas are indeed scientific treatises, be it physics or medicine or metallurgy or mathematics or astronomy or cosmology.

It is not that I'm trying to justify the vedhic literature by drawing parallels to the modern day science as we know it, on the contrary I'm trying to draw the attention of the masters that the vedhic literature has lot of unexplored scientific treatises which the modern science may not have answers to.

For example, the very same sooktham that I have talked about "Savitha Sooktham" also explains the the presence of ether and the relative motion of ether while the light travels through it.I would want scientific minded folks to recollect that Einstein has not disproved ether but said that its presence or absence may not have nay profound impact on our understanding of science. Even today, there are intelligible and credible people who question the veracity or wisdom of Einstein's special theory of relativity which just says the world behaves this way but does not give any explanation as to why it behaves like that (i'm talking about the invariance of speed of light or what is popularly called constancy of speed of light).

 I'm pretty poor in Samskrit but with what I understood from the various Bhaashyas, translations,etc I can tell that the vedhic literature talks about so many scientfic treatises like the Naasadeeya sooktham. If one reads that one gets a feeling like the rushi who wrote that sookthm is writing a thesis:

"Until now the secret mysteries of the creation of the universe has been eluding us but the recent efforts of our rushees  have given us more clues into the the formation of the universe and what happened at that time."-- this is how the Naasadeeya Sooktham goes. is it not the same way our modern cosmologists write theories about the astronomical phenomenon?

It is reported by H.A. Griffith (one of the translators of  Rug Vedham) that the Sulabha Soothras describe the speed of light as 2202 Yojajanas per (liptha) half the time of flapping an eyelid.

Considering that the flapping an eyelid takes 1/5 a second, half of that becomes 1/10th of a second. Now the wikipedia says a yojana was 13-15 kilomters during the vedhic period, the speed of the light becomes 2,86,260 KM/S -3,30,300 KM/S.

Is it not a discovery that is enough to startle the physicists of today for the modern world came to know of speed of light to that accuracy only in 17 hundreds which our rushees have written down in simple formulas (sulabha soothras) thousands of years ago.

And so is this wave theory of light that is explained in clear terms in Savitha Sooktham. All this makes sense if Savitha can be equated with Sun light.

So, my question is : keeping the agreements or disagreements aside about the scientific interpretations of the vedhic literature, can the verse i quoted be interpreted as :

Ravi being the eye of Sun (perhaps "heat"), while Savitha is the sight (light) of Ravi?

I would request the Samskrith pundits to please consider this from an unbiased view...

Thanks and Regards,

Samba

============================================================

[Eddie Hadley]

Samba,

 

Re śubhra

    •  mf(ā)n. radiant, shining, beautiful, splendid, ṚV. &c. &c.

 

    There is physics, there is metaphysics (philosophy) and there is religion.

 

    And then there is the somewhat lesser category of knowledge that is is pseudo science, which rather than illuminating matters, tends to shadow them.

 

I quote:

“Even today, there are intelligible and credible people who question the veracity or wisdom of Einstein's special theory of relativity which just says the world behaves this way but does not give any explanation as to why it behaves like that (i'm talking about the invariance of speed of light or what is popularly called constancy of speed of light).”

 

As someone with an old friend from school days who began his career by conducting satellite experiments to detect cosmic radiation to look for evidence of black holes, I can assure you that the speed of light is certainly not ‘invariant’. 

It travels slower through transparent matter such as air or glass. And It has severe problems when it encounters dense material.

 

With the Veda, the laws of physics do not apply, the appeal is to the soul, not the intellect.

 

Eddie

2012/4/22 murthy <murt...@gmail.com>

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[satyajit Borwankar]

Dear Devaraj,

many thanks for kindly providing the link to the Sahasranama meaning.

 

It is extremely useful to a beginner like me, who would want to understand the meaning while chanting.

 

many thanks indeed.

 

Satyajit

[DEV RAJ]

You may also read -
http://www.ibiblio.org/sadagopan/ahobilavalli/vishnu_sahasra_namam_vol1.pdf


dev