Vibhakti of Namah

[Raj Man]

Namastey,

  Can someone please provide the various Vibhakti forms of Namah, from which NamastEy, naMoh etc are derived.

[Arvind_Kolhatkar]

Please download a small book called शब्दमञ्जरी from  https://archive.org/details/SHABDAMANGARISAMSKRUTHAM.  It gives in a tabular form all विभक्तिs of all endings of nouns, pronouns etc in three genders..

Arvind Kolhatkar

[Nagaraj Paturi]

You may use 

http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/grammar.html

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 7:21 PM, Arvind_Kolhatkar <kolhat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Please download a small book called शब्दमञ्जरी from  https://archive.org/details/SHABDAMANGARISAMSKRUTHAM.  It gives in a tabular form all विभक्तिs of all endings of nouns, pronouns etc in three genders..

Arvind Kolhatkar

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Gopalan Sampath]

Sabdha Manjari is the book we used while learning at school. a good 60 yrs ago !  Rama, Hari and Guru sabdhams were the first few to learn.  

Thanks for kindling my memory!

[Irene Galstian]

It's a little gem. I bulk-buy this book to give away, and people like it.

By the way, Vyoma Labs have produced a recording of declensions, if you prefer to combine seeing words on the page with hearing them.

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[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Respected Scholars,

I have been using the online tools for declension and conjugation.

There is question of reliability on them. Some websites give correct forms and some give incorrect forms. As a student, it is difficult to find which one is correct. Let me bring once instance.

I have been trying for the conjugation of the root दिव् (to shine)

1) From Text Book

 

2) From the website: http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/grammar.html

 

3) From the website: http://scl.samsaadhanii.in/

 

It is better to check at multiple sources.

Regards

Ramana murthy

[Hnbhat B.R.]

It is better to a single reliable book or source than multiple sources as you cannot decide the correct form yourself.

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[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Respected Hnbhat Sir,

Thanks for reply.

I request you to clarify the below doubt from Sabda Manjari text book which is standard book for Sanskrit beginners.

1) त्वत् tvat (Other) is given as one of the 35 pronouns in Sabda Manjari.

2) But in the same Sabda Manjari book, same word त्वत् tvat is given as the Ablative Singular of the pronoun युष्मद् yuṣmad.

 Now the question is: can the same word (त्वत् tvat) be the pronoun and the declined form of another pronoun? Doesn’t it look like absurd?

3) Now considering the त्वत् tvat as pronoun, Sabda Manjari gives how to decline it. Here is the screen shot.

4) त्वत् tvat given as the pronoun in “A Higher Sanskrit Grammar” by MR KALE. Here is the screen shot.

Regards

Ramana murthy

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:

[hnbhat]

Please ask your doubt directly without confusing with many cut and paste. In this case, I could not understand your question.

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[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Sir,

In the book, त्वत् is given as  one of  pronouns (base) and also the declined form form another pronoun युष्मद्.

Is this possible?

Regards

Ramana murthy

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:

[hnbhat]

On April 30, 2018, at 2:39 PM, RamanaMurthy Bathala <bathal...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>>
>Now the question is: can the same word (त्वत् tvat) be the pronoun and the declined form of another pronoun? Doesn’t it look like absurd?
>

You are not a beginner, if you consider Panini's declensions as absurd and you cannot learn as taught by Panini. It is a fact the two forms are identical.

>3) Now considering the त्वत् tvat as pronoun, Sabda Manjari gives how to decline it. Here is the screen shot.
>

>4) त्वत् tvat given as the pronoun in “A Higher Sanskrit Grammar” by MR KALE. Here is the screen shot.
>

What is problem in saying tvat is prnoun? And accepting tvat as the declined form of the pronoun "yushmat" in the ablative singular as given by Panini?

>Regards
>
>Ramana murthy
>
>On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:
>
>Namastey,
>
>  Can someone please provide the various Vibhakti forms of Namah, from which NamastEy, naMoh etc are derived.
>

[hnbhat]

What is your problem?

On April 30, 2018, at 4:28 PM, RamanaMurthy Bathala <bathal...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sir,

In the book, त्वत् is given as  one of  pronouns (base) and also the declined form form another pronoun युष्मद्.

Is this possible?

Regards

Ramana murthy

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:

Namastey,

  Can someone please provide the various Vibhakti forms of Namah, from which NamastEy, naMoh etc are derived.

[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Sir,

My problem: Should I accept त्वत् as a declinable प्रातिपदिकम् of a pronoun?

Some scholars are not accepting the word त्वत् as pronoun (प्रातिपदिकम्). Hence they say it cannot be declined. Because it is already in the declined form. So cascading of the declension is not allowed. When input is processed, we get output. Now we are giving this output as input for another process. How many times this cascading is allowed?

1)

Long back I contacted the author of the book. Sanskrit Teacher for English Speaking People . Here is the response:

 

Dear Shri Ramana murthy ji,

Thanks for your email. You can not find the declension for त्वत् because त्वत् is not a dictionary word. The declension tables you prepared are arbitrary. त्वत् itself is the Ablative Singular (m. f. n.) declension of the pronoun युष्मद् (त्वत्, युवाभ्याम्, युष्मत्). You can not decline already declined word.

 Keep up the good work.

Ratnakar

 http://books-india.com/

 

 

2)

Next, almost the opinion is expressed by Sri S. L. Abhyankar

Here is the response I received in my mail.

*************

नमस्ते श्रीमन् रमणमूर्ति-महोदय !

I am surprised that शब्दमञ्जिरी mentions त्वत् as a declinable प्रातिपदिकम् |

It is simply पञ्चमी एकवचनम् of युष्मद्-सर्वनाम ! प्रातिपदिकम् is युष्मद् !

It is also used in compound words as उपपदम् standing for त्वम्. It has to be the पूर्वपदम् of the compound word -

See त्वदन्यः संशयस्यास्य छेत्ता न ह्युपपद्यते (गीता 6'39) त्वत्तः (or त्वत्) अन्यः = त्वदन्यः

Also न त्वत्समोऽस्त्यभ्यधिकः कुतोऽन्यो (गीता 11'43) त्वया समः = त्वत्समः 

Cordially, S. L. Abhyankar

सस्नेहम्,

अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः |

"श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् ।"

*************

Regards

Ramana murthy

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:

[Hnbhat B.R.]

They both are wrong to some extent like you.

Dictionary doesn't contain many words used in grammar or grammatically derived words. You have rely on grammar or works like Shabdamanjari for beginners based on grammar. As for Abhyankar, he has not seen the pronoun. It is included in Sarvadigana in 

सर्वादीनि सर्वनामानि १५१, १।१।२६

सर्व विश्व उभ उभय डतर डतम अन्य अन्यतर इतर त्वत् त्व नेम सम सिम। पूर्वपरावरदक्षिणोत्तरापराधराणि व्यवस्थायामसंज्ञायाम्। स्वमज्ञातिधनाख्यायाम्। अन्तरं बहिर्योगोपसंव्यानयोः। त्यद् तद् यद् एतद् इदम् अदस् एक द्वि युष्मद् अस्मद् भवतु किम्॥

 Please read explanation of Sarvadi given in the Sutra till you find the pronoun त्वत् and see yourself that the pronoun is included by Panini himself. I think you might not have heard the name of Panini the Sanskrit Grammarian who wrote Ashtadhyayi from which I have given the pronoun list and not from Dictionary or any Sanskrit Teacher's book.

  . 

On Monday, April 30, 2018, RamanaMurthy Bathala <bathal...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Taff Rivers]

Professor,

   "It is better to a single reliable book or source than multiple sources as you cannot decide the correct form yourself."

Indeed, but how does one determine whether a given āgama is trustworthy?

There is no known way of doing so with absolute certainty.

The recognised best way is by consensus of those that know those things.

However, when it comes to Sanskrit, there is no majority opinion to go by, so we have to decide for ourselves.

Millenia go by and grammarians are still battling to establish their version as the standard one.

The 'form' that people actually rely on is the one that works in terms of human communication of information as a basis for action.

Even if it be formal i.e. proper grammar, what constitutes formal depends on the writer/speaker.

A nanu (objection),

Taff Rivers

[KN.Ramesh]

Ramana garu,

>>In the book, त्वत् is given as  one of  pronouns (base) and also the declined form form another pronoun युष्मद्.

Is this possible?

YES, it is possible.

On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 18:34:19 UTC+5:30, Raj Man wrote:

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Taff Rivers <eddie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Professor,

   "It is better to a single reliable book or source than multiple sources as you cannot decide the correct form yourself."

Indeed, but how does one determine whether a given āgama is trustworthy?

It is not any āgama for Sanaskrit Grammar, but only Ashtadhyayi for grammar trustworthy. There is no question about it.

 

There is no known way of doing so with absolute certainty.

The recognised best way is by consensus of those that know those things.

However, when it comes to Sanskrit, there is no majority opinion to go by, so we have to decide for ourselves.

Millenia go by and grammarians are still battling to establish their version as the standard one.

The 'form' that people actually rely on is the one that works in terms of human communication of information as a basis for action.

Even if it be formal i.e. proper grammar, what constitutes formal depends on the writer/speaker.

WE find no objection usiing Ashtadhyayi. As a beginner, he can use Shabdamanjari list of declensionary as we had learnt. I have no objection as it is perfect for a beginner,  Problem he has arised not as beginner, but exploring multiple sources. Instead if he had asked the question, he would have got reply as Ramesh has given in his message and I have explained in my message.

 

A nanu (objection),

Taff Rivers

--

[Gérard Huet]

Dear Sanskrit lovers,

Users of online tools should learn how to use them before claiming they are faulty. 

It is expressly indicated in the online manual of the Sanskrit Heritage site:

If you enter random stems and parameters, you will get arbitrary nonsense, according to the principle "garbage-in garbage-out". 

In the case of the discussed root दिव् (to shine), it is actually listed in the Heritage dictionary as diiv#1, as shown here. If you press the red 4 indicating its ga.na, you will get the intended conjugation tables.

If instead you use the associated online Monier-Williams, it is listed as [div]2, as shown here. If you press the red 4 indicating its ga.na, you will get the same conjugation tables, because the software knows that MW [div]2 aligns with Heritage diiv#1. 

But if you use directly the conjugation service, you must know that its correct parameters are diiv/दीव् for the stem and 4 for the present class. The system infers that this must be root diiv#1, and delivers the right tables. 

Names of roots vary across dictionaries/dhaatupaa.thas. In particular, dhaatupaa.thas may list roots with their accompanying anubandhas (derivational parameters), which must be removed in order to get the stem (अङ्गम्) of the root. Thus root hve may be found in Western grammars as hve, hvaa or huu. 

Of course, online software always contain residual mistakes. Signaling them will help improving the tools

Best regards

Gérard Huet

[Taff Rivers]

Professor,

  Surely, a person is in a better position to decide on a course of action when he has enough information to make up his own mind.

It is necessary to be in possesion of an Author/Authorities works, to best judge his/its worth.  

I rest my case. And reserve the right to make up my own mind (:-).

  Regards,

Taff Rivers