Sanskrit transliteration (Romanization ) keyboard

615 views
Skip to first unread message

mln sastry

unread,
Mar 1, 2019, 3:18:31 PM3/1/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Hi All,

I created a Keyboard layout for Microsoft windows for Sanskrit transliteration.

It can downloaded from 

https://github.com/pikeview/Panini/

Please give it a try and let me know your feedback

Thanks

sastry mln

unread,
Mar 2, 2019, 2:15:59 PM3/2/19
to samskrita
Resending with a bit of write up about my motivation to create this:

One of the problems I find with our Indian usage of English is that we substitute the letter D to spell ड/డ as well as द/ద , and the letter T to spell the ट/ట, as well as त/త. This has become intuitive to us and we instinctively make the difference. However, the English people utter Indian words very differently. Their accent is based on the way they orient their mouth, throat, and tongue (a drawn back thick tongue). Secondly they use "th" for డ, and ద (as in "moth" and "mother").  I have observed them utter words such as "Hindu", "Damodar", "Drishti", "Tripti", as "हिंडु", "डामोडर", "ड्रिश्टि", "ट्रिप्टि ", "హిండూ", "డామోడర్ ","డ్రిష్టి" ,"ట్రిప్టి".  

I find similar mistake done in India. People in one part of India utter other regional words wrongly. It is wrong to say टमिल. The correct way is तमिळ. Wrong to say टेंडूल्कर / టెండూల్కర్. The correct way is तेंदूल्कर /  తెందూల్కర్. Same mistake with ढिल्ली. The correct way is दिल्ली. ఢిల్లీ/ దిల్లీ.  These observations led me to think that we need more alphabet in English for Indian needs and more keys in our QWERTY keyboards. I found one such standard ISO15919. It defines additional alphabets for transliterating Indic languages into Roman/Latin alphabet. As part of a larger effort, I first created a custom keyboard layout that supports additional characters defined in ISO15919. It can be downloaded from https://github.com/pikeview/Panini 

Please install it in your PCs and give it a try. More details in the README file in the github page.
More documentation to follow.

Sunder Hattangadi

unread,
Mar 2, 2019, 2:44:13 PM3/2/19
to samskrita

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sams...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/samskrita.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

mln sastry

unread,
Mar 3, 2019, 12:11:34 AM3/3/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
sir,

In windows os, we can enable devanagari and other INSCRIPT key boards in the "language and Region" settings. They don't need any copy/ pasting from another web page. However, windows does not have a romanization alpbhabet key board built in to it. The keyboard I created works like regular multi lingual keyboard. 

on the system tray, it appears as English (Indian) - with Romanization.

To type ā, ë, ī, õ, ū, one has to press and hold right alt key and press a,e,i,o,u respectively.

other characters that are enabled by pressing right alt and shift+ right alt are shown in the README file in the github page link given

Thanks
sastry

Taff Rivers

unread,
Mar 3, 2019, 8:35:01 PM3/3/19
to samskrita
sastry,

  You could just as well say that Indian people utter English words very differently from the English.

You seem to be wanting to script different dialects, as in a narrative?
You will find that there are standard Unicode numbers for those precomposed characters that you mention.

However the likes of Windows operating systems has all this capability already built in:

D Macron below.gif



Bring up Window's Character Map utility to the Desktop, point to the required character with the mouse.
Click on it, then simply drag 'n' drop it to where you want it.
Both you, and your readers will need to have a font with such characters,already installed on their systems. e.g. TT Gentium Book Basic.
 
Typing a large varieties of characters in any script is always tedious due to having to know the correct key combination.

Viz. "Dis is dah house dat Jack built" said Shamus, informatively.
Whereas Shamus would be quite at home reading the conventional English:
"This is the house that Jack built".
Which would also be how he would write what he spoke.

Add a few Egyptians, Bengalies, Arabs...

What is more, you would have to invent each dialect as you go, and test it out on the natives!

I matters such as these, I would be starting researching at the top - with publishers, and work down to the Authors and their typing systems.


Taff Rivers

. 

Sunder Hattangadi

unread,
Mar 4, 2019, 9:53:40 AM3/4/19
to samskrita

Sunder Hattangadi

unread,
Mar 5, 2019, 12:12:25 PM3/5/19
to samskrita
On Monday, March 4, 2019, 8:53:38 AM CST, 'Sunder Hattangadi' via samskrita <sams...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


ken p

unread,
Mar 5, 2019, 1:13:35 PM3/5/19
to samskrita
Sastry,
Most Sanskrit scholars here prefer to type in Harvard-Kyoto scheme and they are not interested in diacritic scheme which is good for print media. 

Taff Rivers

unread,
Mar 5, 2019, 7:29:33 PM3/5/19
to samskrita
sastry,

 You need to make it clear up-front that you are concerned with such Roman characters as have a macron below them.

I far as I can tell, none of the other members' multiple 'keyboards' show any evidence of having read your README.md.

However, I said earlier, it's much simpler with just a mouse.
Serious writers may configure two mice - one left handed, along with two (or more) desktop character maps showing the required transliterations.

The mice should come with a wheel on top, nothing else required.

 Regards,
Taff Rivers

mln sastry

unread,
Mar 7, 2019, 10:41:36 AM3/7/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Hi,

Yes, Indian people do not utter English words the way English people do. 

However, my focus is on the needs of Indians for Indian words. We have more consonants and vowels;  the 26 alphabet of English is not sufficient for our needs. How do I convey to a English reader the right sound without equivalent alphabet?

The ISO15919 standard defines the additional characters for proper romanization of Indic words.

Windows provides special keyboard layouts for French, German, and other languages. But there is no layout for ISO15919. I made one for that. 

A keyboard layout is more efficient than the insert special symbol method you mentioned 

Other romanization systems try to fit Indian scripts into 26 alphabet of English. In my opinion they are inferior to ISO15919.

I would request that you install the keyboard layout and give it a try. If you already know a better and faster way to type romanized sanskrit, please let me know.

thanks
Sastry



Taff Rivers

unread,
Mar 7, 2019, 12:09:35 PM3/7/19
to samskrita
sastry,

I think you are missing the point.

Symbols are just symbols. They are symbolic of something. In the case of sounds.
  How does anyone get to know what the symbol a sounds like, or the symbol a with macron above, macron below?

They do so by referring to a table that associates the symbols with their sounds.
To be found at the very start of every English book of Sanskrit.
Presumable the same applies to every Indian book.
The symbols are universal, only the associated pronunciation will vary.


One table for British English speakers
a,  u  as in but 
ā,  a  as on father

Another for American English, Canadian, Australian...
 
I have not employed the phonetic alphabet - a learning curve in its own right.

Your 'D to spell ड/డ as well as द/ద' does nothing to help me with pronunciation.
 
 D, x as in whatxver
 D macron below, y as in whatyver...

Are there any book publishers in this forum with experience of writing in local scripts?

Taff Rivers

unread,
Mar 7, 2019, 7:06:24 PM3/7/19
to samskrita
sastry,

  Are you aka 'Manas Marthi from Belfast, UK?

If so, on the topic of novel transliteration schemes.
You would know that Irishmen do not write English like they speak it. Not even in their many novels do they do so.
They don't even do so when writing to each other.

And, yes I have tried it, but none of your layouts match the Microsoft branded board I work with.

Taff, he say, "A single mouse is worth a thousand keyboards."
 
Taff Rivers

Hnbhat B.R.

unread,
Mar 7, 2019, 7:12:34 PM3/7/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
He has replied in his own way that he has invented the keyboard for Indian users in mind. I didn't ever use transliteration for my language!
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

mln sastry

unread,
Mar 8, 2019, 7:19:36 AM3/8/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Hi Mr Bhat,
It is not an "invention" per se. Microsoft provides a keyboard layout composer. We can create a new layout for whatever set of unicode points we want. Yes, agree no need to transliterate your mother tongue when you are wriring for people whose mother tongue is the same. But I have a different use case in mind. This layout is a first step to it.

thanks
Sastry

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, 12:12 AM Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com> wrote:
He has replied in his own way that he has invented the keyboard for Indian users in mind. I didn't ever use transliteration for my language!

On Friday, March 8, 2019, Taff Rivers <eddie...@gmail.com> wrote:
sastry,

  Are you aka 'Manas Marthi from Belfast, UK?

If so, on the topic of novel transliteration schemes.
You would know that Irishmen do not write English like they speak it. Not even in their many novels do they do so.
They don't even do so when writing to each other.

And, yes I have tried it, but none of your layouts match the Microsoft branded board I work with.

Taff, he say, "A single mouse is worth a thousand keyboards."
 
Taff Rivers

On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 8:18:31 PM UTC, sastry mln wrote:
Hi All,

I created a Keyboard layout for Microsoft windows for Sanskrit transliteration.

It can downloaded from 

https://github.com/pikeview/Panini/

Please give it a try and let me know your feedback

Thanks

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to sams...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/samskrita.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.

mln sastry

unread,
Mar 8, 2019, 7:19:49 AM3/8/19
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Hi Mr Ken,
I missed this email.Gmail app just showing the latest mail . 

Yes, people should have freedom to follow their preferences. I prefer ISO15919. That's why I made it.  And yes, diactrics look better on print as well as web media. I created it for that purpose only

thanks


On Tue, Mar 5, 2019, 6:13 PM ken p <drk...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sastry,
Most Sanskrit scholars here prefer to type in Harvard-Kyoto scheme and they are not interested in diacritic scheme which is good for print media. 

--
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages