The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
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Shreyas P. Munshi
Dec 2, 2012, 9:19:07 AM12/2/12
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Respected group,
Would scholars in the group kindly guide me as to how the shanti paaTh "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu" should be correctly recited because I hear the following three different ways in which people recite:
(a). om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)tejasvinAvadhItamastu (pause) mA (very short poise..like a coma) vidvishAvahai
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
As the scholars would kindly notice, there is no pause given between 'astu' and 'mA'; instead 'mA' is joined with 'astu'. This is how the devotees in the Chinmaya Mission and the teachers of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt recite. (I was once a member of the Chinmaya family Kuwait. At that time, of course, I was not learning Sanskrit! These days I am learning Sanskrit under the auspices of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt). To my simple mind this does not seem to be the correct way. Personally, I feel that unless the metrical rule of a 'chhanda' dictates the otherwise, the way described at (a) above seems correct. But if the metrical rule applies, could the way shown at (c) below be correct? I am told some 'chhanda' has 16 or 17 syllables in the second line, in which case the way shown at (c) could be the correct way. As a learner, I wish to clear my doubt and so am requesting for kind help.
(c) Only once , from a Tamilian swami, i had heard as follows:
om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumAvidvishAvahai
(no pause at all in the second line from 'tejasvi....to vivdvishAvahai)
I am told the shAntipAThs are psychically potent only if the constituent terms are correctly pronounced, and that is why I request guidence.for this shAntipATh.
Submitted...Shreyas
____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
Hnbhat B.R.
Dec 2, 2012, 10:17:47 AM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
ऊँ सह नाववतु, सह नौ भुनक्तु
सह वीर्यं करवावहै ।
तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु ।
मा विद्विषावहै ।
ऊँ शान्ति: शान्ति: शान्ति:।
OM saha naavavatu,
Saha nau bhunaktu,
Saha veeryam karavaavahai.
Tejasvinaavadheetamastu.
Maa vidvishaavahai.
OM Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih!
I don't know about pause in between. Probably it follows word pause, if one is careful about the meaning and the पाद endings and the correctness for meaning or words, doesn't differ.
The pause is not governed by the grammar anyway. It is the convenience of the people to pronounce caring for the words and their meaning. A little more care for the पाद-s may help in understanding. For recitation, it follows some times accent notations, but not in every शान्तिपाठ,which may some times affect the way pause in hearing the words for the hearers.
This is my idea.
Vimala Sarma
Dec 2, 2012, 5:20:25 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
My only comment is there is a very common mistake that almost everyone makes in saying the word vidvishAvahai
The break should be vi-dvishAvahai and not vid-vishAvahai
Vimala
Dr Vimala Sarma
My new e-mail is sarma...@gmail.com
From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shreyas P. Munshi
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 1:19 AM
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Respected group,
Would scholars in the group kindly guide me as to how the shanti paaTh "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu" should be correctly recited because I hear the following three different ways in which people recite:
(a). om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)tejasvinAvadhItamastu (pause) mA (very short poise..like a coma)
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
As the scholars would kindly notice, there is no pause given between 'astu' and 'mA'; instead 'mA' is joined with 'astu'. This is how the devotees in the Chinmaya Mission and the teachers of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt recite. (I was once a member of the Chinmaya family Kuwait. At that time, of course, I was not learning Sanskrit! These days I am learning Sanskrit under the auspices of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt). To my simple mind this does not seem to be the correct way. Personally, I feel that unless the metrical rule of a 'chhanda' dictates the otherwise, the way described at (a) above seems correct. But if the metrical rule applies, could the way shown at (c) below be correct? I am told some 'chhanda' has 16 or 17 syllables in the second line, in which case the way shown at (c) could be the correct way. As a learner, I wish to clear my doubt and so am requesting for kind help.
(c) Only once , from a Tamilian swami, i had heard as follows:
om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumAvidvishAvahai
(no pause at all in the second line from 'tejasvi....to vivdvishAvahai)
I am told the shAntipAThs are psychically potent only if the constituent terms are correctly pronounced, and that is why I request guidence.for this shAntipATh.
Submitted...Shreyas
____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
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Cynthia Churchill
Dec 2, 2012, 6:31:58 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Respected group members,
The recording of this mantra by my guru, Sree Aswath, and his Veda Recitation Class will be available for download for the next 7 days:
Fin1Sahana.mp3 <http://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJaWWVxUENGOFRMYnNUQw?cid=tx-02002207340200000000&s=19102>
Size: 730.04 KB Expires: December 09, 2012
Of course, there must be some slight pause for breath when chanting and some chanters have more breath than others. Also, those who chant rapidly can include more in one breath.
The attached file shows the English meaning of the words, with sandhi broken. It is better if a pause for breath is at the end of a phrase — or at least not in the middle of a word!
Actually there is an optimum way to chant, as described in the first mantras of Taittiriiya Upanishad, Part 1. Not too fast or too slow, maintaining a consistent length of short and long vowels and so forth. Learning correctly from a teacher is so important.
Cynthia M. Churchill, M.D.
-----------------------------
Mindflow Learning Systems, Inc.
4694 Cemetery Road #371
Hilliard, OH 43026-1124 USA
e-mail: cynt...@wowway.com
websites: http://learn-sanskrit.com/
http://chant-sanskrit.com/
-----------------------------
From: "Shreyas P. Munshi" <shreya...@rediffmail.com>
Reply-To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2012 14:19:07 -0000
To: "sams...@googlegroups.com" <sams...@googlegroups.com>
The recording of this mantra by my guru, Sree Aswath, and his Veda Recitation Class will be available for download for the next 7 days:
Fin1Sahana.mp3 <http://www.yousendit.com/download/WUJaWWVxUENGOFRMYnNUQw?cid=tx-02002207340200000000&s=19102>
Size: 730.04 KB Expires: December 09, 2012
Of course, there must be some slight pause for breath when chanting and some chanters have more breath than others. Also, those who chant rapidly can include more in one breath.
The attached file shows the English meaning of the words, with sandhi broken. It is better if a pause for breath is at the end of a phrase — or at least not in the middle of a word!
Actually there is an optimum way to chant, as described in the first mantras of Taittiriiya Upanishad, Part 1. Not too fast or too slow, maintaining a consistent length of short and long vowels and so forth. Learning correctly from a teacher is so important.
Cynthia M. Churchill, M.D.
-----------------------------
Mindflow Learning Systems, Inc.
4694 Cemetery Road #371
Hilliard, OH 43026-1124 USA
e-mail: cynt...@wowway.com
websites: http://learn-sanskrit.com/
http://chant-sanskrit.com/
-----------------------------
From: "Shreyas P. Munshi" <shreya...@rediffmail.com>
Reply-To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2012 14:19:07 -0000
To: "sams...@googlegroups.com" <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)tejasvinAvadhItamastu (pause) mA (very short poise..like a coma) vidvishAvahai
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
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Cynthia Churchill
Dec 2, 2012, 6:39:43 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Corrected info for download:
Fin1Sahana.mp3 <https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1834701846/340430ff266509059ba462a1e381763c?cid=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104> <https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1834701846/340430ff266509059ba462a1e381763c?cid=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104>
Your file will expire on December 09, 2012 14:43 PST
Sorry for the mix-up!
Cynthia
From: Cynthia Churchill <cynt...@wowway.com>
Reply-To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:31:58 -0500
To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Fin1Sahana.mp3 <https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1834701846/340430ff266509059ba462a1e381763c?cid=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104> <https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1834701846/340430ff266509059ba462a1e381763c?cid=tx-02002207350200000000&s=19104>
Your file will expire on December 09, 2012 14:43 PST
Sorry for the mix-up!
Cynthia
From: Cynthia Churchill <cynt...@wowway.com>
Reply-To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:31:58 -0500
To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Cynthia Churchill
Dec 2, 2012, 6:41:47 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Still having trouble with the link, so I have attached the sound file.
Cynthia
From: Cynthia Churchill <cynt...@wowway.com>
Reply-To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:39:43 -0500
December 09, 2012 14:43 PST
Vimala Sarma
Dec 2, 2012, 7:41:51 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
The same mistake I mentioned just now in the pronunciation of the word vidvishAvahai occurs in Cynthia's tape.
Shreyas P. Munshi
Dec 2, 2012, 9:09:11 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Respected Vimala-ji,
Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Bhat Sir's Devanagari typing clearly shows that there is a 'danda' after 'astu', and 'mA' comes in the next line.
The recitation in Cynthia madam's tape is all in one breath from 'astu' to 'vidvishavahai'. Perhaps that is the correct way, if a metrical rule applies there. My doubt, however, still remains un-cleared: Is it correct to join 'astu' and 'mA' and pause after'mA' as if there is a 'danda' after 'mA' and then utter 'vidvishAvahai' separately(as done by many)?
I think (if I am allowed to think!) that either the whole line from 'astu' to 'vidvishaavahai' should be uttered without a break in between or the 'astu' and the 'mA' must be uttered separately (and not joined).
I request direction from scholars.
Regards...Shreyas
On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 06:11:57 +0530 wrote
>Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu" The same mistake I mentioned just now in the pronunciation of the word vidvishAvahai occurs in Cynthia's tape.VimalaDr Vimala SarmaMy new e-mail is sarma...@gmail.com+612 9699 4414+61 409 690 220From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Churchill
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 10:42 AM
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"Still having trouble with the link, so I have attached the sound file.
Cynthia
From: Cynthia Churchill
Reply-To:
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:39:43 -0500
To:
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Corrected info for download:
Fin1Sahana.mp3
Reply-To:
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:39:43 -0500
To:
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Corrected info for download:
Fin1Sahana.mp3
Your file will expire on December 09, 2012 14:43 PST
Sorry for the mix-up!
Cynthia
Sorry for the mix-up!
Cynthia
From: Cynthia Churchill
Reply-To:
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:31:58 -0500
To:
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Respected group members,
The recording of this mantra by my guru, Sree Aswath, and his Veda Recitation Class will be available for download for the next 7 days:
Fin1Sahana.mp3
Reply-To:
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:31:58 -0500
To:
Conversation: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Respected group members,
The recording of this mantra by my guru, Sree Aswath, and his Veda Recitation Class will be available for download for the next 7 days:
Fin1Sahana.mp3
Size: 730.04 KB Expires: December 09, 2012
Of course, there must be some slight pause for breath when chanting and some chanters have more breath than others. Also, those who chant rapidly can include more in one breath.
The attached file shows the English meaning of the words, with sandhi broken. It is better if a pause for breath is at the end of a phrase — or at least not in the middle of a word!
Actually there is an optimum way to chant, as described in the first mantras of Taittiriiya Upanishad, Part 1. Not too fast or too slow, maintaining a consistent length of short and long vowels and so forth. Learning correctly from a teacher is so important.
Cynthia M. Churchill, M.D.
-----------------------------
Mindflow Learning Systems, Inc.
4694 Cemetery Road #371
Hilliard, OH 43026-1124 USA
e-mail: cynt...@wowway.com
websites: http://learn-sanskrit.com/
http://chant-sanskrit.com/
-----------------------------
Of course, there must be some slight pause for breath when chanting and some chanters have more breath than others. Also, those who chant rapidly can include more in one breath.
The attached file shows the English meaning of the words, with sandhi broken. It is better if a pause for breath is at the end of a phrase — or at least not in the middle of a word!
Actually there is an optimum way to chant, as described in the first mantras of Taittiriiya Upanishad, Part 1. Not too fast or too slow, maintaining a consistent length of short and long vowels and so forth. Learning correctly from a teacher is so important.
Cynthia M. Churchill, M.D.
-----------------------------
Mindflow Learning Systems, Inc.
4694 Cemetery Road #371
Hilliard, OH 43026-1124 USA
e-mail: cynt...@wowway.com
websites: http://learn-sanskrit.com/
http://chant-sanskrit.com/
-----------------------------
From: "Shreyas P. Munshi"
Reply-To:
Date: 2 Dec 2012 14:19:07 -0000
To: "sams...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Respected group,
Would scholars in the group kindly guide me as to how the shanti paaTh "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu" should be correctly recited because I hear the following three different ways in which people recite:
(a). om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)tejasvinAvadhItamastu (pause) mA (very short poise..like a coma) vidvishAvahai
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
As the scholars would kindly notice, there is no pause given between 'astu' and 'mA'; instead 'mA' is joined with 'astu'. This is how the devotees in the Chinmaya Mission and the teachers of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt recite. (I was once a member of the Chinmaya family Kuwait. At that time, of course, I was not learning Sanskrit! These days I am learning Sanskrit under the auspices of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt). To my simple mind this does not seem to be the correct way. Personally, I feel that unless the metrical rule of a 'chhanda' dictates the otherwise, the way described at (a) above seems correct. But if the metrical rule applies, could the way shown at (c) below be correct? I am told some 'chhanda' has 16 or 17 syllables in the second line, in which case the way shown at (c) could be the correct way. As a learner, I wish to clear my doubt and so am requesting for kind help.
(c) Only once , from a Tamilian swami, i had heard as follows:
om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumAvidvishAvahai
(no pause at all in the second line from 'tejasvi....to vivdvishAvahai)
I am told the shAntipAThs are psychically potent only if the constituent terms are correctly pronounced, and that is why I request guidence.for this shAntipATh.
Submitted...Shreyas
____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
Reply-To:
Date: 2 Dec 2012 14:19:07 -0000
To: "sams...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Respected group,
Would scholars in the group kindly guide me as to how the shanti paaTh "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu" should be correctly recited because I hear the following three different ways in which people recite:
(a). om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)tejasvinAvadhItamastu (pause) mA (very short poise..like a coma) vidvishAvahai
(b) om sahanAvavatu (pause)sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumA (pause) vidvishAvahai
As the scholars would kindly notice, there is no pause given between 'astu' and 'mA'; instead 'mA' is joined with 'astu'. This is how the devotees in the Chinmaya Mission and the teachers of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt recite. (I was once a member of the Chinmaya family Kuwait. At that time, of course, I was not learning Sanskrit! These days I am learning Sanskrit under the auspices of the Sanskrit teaching wing of Chitraapur Mutt). To my simple mind this does not seem to be the correct way. Personally, I feel that unless the metrical rule of a 'chhanda' dictates the otherwise, the way described at (a) above seems correct. But if the metrical rule applies, could the way shown at (c) below be correct? I am told some 'chhanda' has 16 or 17 syllables in the second line, in which case the way shown at (c) could be the correct way. As a learner, I wish to clear my doubt and so am requesting for kind help.
(c) Only once , from a Tamilian swami, i had heard as follows:
om sahanAvavatu (pause) sahanaubhunaktu (pause) sahavIryamkaravAvahai (pause)
tejasvinAvadhItamastumAvidvishAvahai
(no pause at all in the second line from 'tejasvi....to vivdvishAvahai)
I am told the shAntipAThs are psychically potent only if the constituent terms are correctly pronounced, and that is why I request guidence.for this shAntipATh.
Submitted...Shreyas
____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
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____________________________
Shreyas Munshi
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Shreyas Munshi
shreya...@rediffmail.com
C202, Mandar Apartments, 120 Ft D P Road,
Seven Bungalows, Versova, Mumbai 400 061
Tel Res: (22) 26364290 Mob: 981 981 8197
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Hnbhat B.R.
Dec 2, 2012, 9:13:25 PM12/2/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com> wrote:
ऊँ सह नाववतु, सह नौ भुनक्तुसह वीर्यं करवावहै ।तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु ।मा विद्विषावहै ।
ऊँ शान्ति: शान्ति: शान्ति:।
Sorry the above only I had in my mind. The below in English is incorrect and means differently and does not make a coherent sentence though individual .
OM
a. saha naav avatu, saha nau bhunaktu,
b. saha veeryam karavaavahai.
c. tejasvi naav adheetam astu.
d. Maa vidvishaavahai.
OM Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih!I don't know about pause in between. Probably it follows word pause, if one is careful about the meaning and the पाद endings and the correctness for meaning or words, doesn't differ.
Again, sorry for my inadvertent posting. In English Now I have corrected the word space in the English roman text according to the meaning and the Sanskrit text which makes it the correct sentence to give thle correct meaning intended.
The pause is not governed by the grammar anyway. It is the convenience of the people to pronounce caring for the words and their meaning. A little more care for the पाद-s may help in understanding. For recitation, it follows some times accent notations, but not in every शान्तिपाठ,which may some times affect the way pause in hearing the words for the hearers.
Here is the English Translation:
Om !
a. May He protect us both together;
may He nourish us both together;
b. May we work conjointly with great energy,
c. May our study be vigorous and effective;
d. May we not mutually dispute (or may we not hate any).
Om ! Let there be Peace in me !
Let there be Peace in my environment !
Let there be Peace in the forces that act on me ![6] (from Viki-pedia);
The point is नौ is the same as in the above lines, but in genetive case and not the dual number of तेजस्विन्+औ - तेजस्विनौ accusative as in the first two lines a and b which does not agree with the verb also भुनक्तु and does not agree with any word in the stanza for that matter, if taken in accusative of तेजस्विन्. But it is only neuter gender nominative singular and agrees with the verb अस्तु and grammatically perfect sentence.
Here is the Dayananda Saraswati's commentary translated in Hindi -
And finally, I could not understand your problem at all, with your jumbled message though once again I looked into it.
With regards
विश्वनाथ: बण्डरु
Dec 3, 2012, 12:22:13 AM12/3/12
to samskrita
Respected Scholars,
I was taught to pronounce all of the "tEjaswinA......hai" all in a single go. I am taught from a vedic scholar.
Purely from a pronounciation perspective, here is what i am taught. It is allowed to pause at the danda mark or continue ignoring the danda mark. However, we must be aware that the vedic swara marks change depending on whether you are pausing or continuing. Therefore your pronounciation should change accordingly. In fact, you can even pause at a word break, as long as you are familiar with swara marks and how they change (and ofcourse the sandhi rules and various 'words' in your mantra).
For example, if you are pausing at a word which ends with a letter with a swarita, it automatically becomes a dirgha-swarita. The example is the 'mAvidwishavahai', where 'hai' has a swarita, and since we pause there, we have to pronounce it as a dirgha-swarita.
While some-what unrelated, I would also stress on the swarita, dIrgha-swatita, and anudatta marks while pronouncing this mantra.
For example, the word 'viryam' in the mantra has a anudatta for 'vi' and followed by swarita for ryam. This is called nicha-swarita. It means that the 'ryam' has to be pronounced with increased stress than a normal swarita.
Thanks
Vissu
I was taught to pronounce all of the "tEjaswinA......hai" all in a single go. I am taught from a vedic scholar.
Purely from a pronounciation perspective, here is what i am taught. It is allowed to pause at the danda mark or continue ignoring the danda mark. However, we must be aware that the vedic swara marks change depending on whether you are pausing or continuing. Therefore your pronounciation should change accordingly. In fact, you can even pause at a word break, as long as you are familiar with swara marks and how they change (and ofcourse the sandhi rules and various 'words' in your mantra).
For example, if you are pausing at a word which ends with a letter with a swarita, it automatically becomes a dirgha-swarita. The example is the 'mAvidwishavahai', where 'hai' has a swarita, and since we pause there, we have to pronounce it as a dirgha-swarita.
While some-what unrelated, I would also stress on the swarita, dIrgha-swatita, and anudatta marks while pronouncing this mantra.
For example, the word 'viryam' in the mantra has a anudatta for 'vi' and followed by swarita for ryam. This is called nicha-swarita. It means that the 'ryam' has to be pronounced with increased stress than a normal swarita.
Thanks
Vissu
Shreyas P. Munshi
Dec 3, 2012, 1:55:02 AM12/3/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
I was taught to pronounce all of the "tEjaswinA......hai" all in a single go. I am taught from a vedic scholar...Vissu.
Vissu Sir,
Vissu Sir,
Is the reciting of the whole line in a single go because of the requirement of the 'chhanda' used? If yes, what is that chhanda? That line has 15 syllables. Is there a chhanda in which the second line has 15 syllables that need to be uttered in a single go? In that case, the printing should also be in one line, no? if the printing leaves space between 'astu' and 'mA' and 'vidvishAvahai', as is found donein many books, a learning reader would, in good faith,break or pause between those terms. Is there no standard way of printing the shAntipATh, Sir?
In any case one thing thatseems to be emerging is that either the line 'tejasvinA....hai' has to be uttered in a single go; or if a break is used it would be after 'astu' to be followedby separately uttering the imperative ist pers dual 'mA vidvishAvahai'. But it would not be correct to break after 'tejas...astumAvid' and following it up by 'vishaavahai' as many seem to be doing.
Is my understanding correct, Sir?
Regards...Shreyas.
Hnbhat B.R.
Dec 3, 2012, 2:54:27 AM12/3/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
गीती शीघ्री शिरः कम्पी तथा लिखित पाठकः ।
अनर्थज्ञोऽल्पकण्ठश्च षडेते पाठकाधमाः ॥|
This type of reciters are considered as the worst of them.
I don't mind any other way, if it doesn't affect the meaning.
Vimala Sarma
Dec 4, 2012, 2:16:24 AM12/4/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Shreyas-Ji
I looked up my chanting book "mantra puSpam" on page 4 for the shanti mantras.
There is no danda after astu here (in this book), so there should be no sentence pause, betweem astu and mA.
I hope this clarifies your question.
I am not an expert in Vedic chanting, so this is my last conribution on this subject.
विश्वनाथ: बण्डारु
Dec 3, 2012, 11:39:43 PM12/3/12
to samskrita
Hi Shreyas,
With the limited knowledge i have, i think that the notion of printing any vedic text is non-standard. Some of the Ramakrishna mission books tend to split the words from sandhi,put a visargah etc. Books from Mysore don't have dirgha swarita. On the top of this, there are known differences in the pAtha for the same text(!) depending on region.
But as Sri Bhatji mentioned, pronunciation in any form is okay as long as the meaning is not disturbed, and IMHO, as long as the swaras are kept intact.
I do know that chandas plays a role in pronunciation (there was a very useful email from Arvindji in this mailing list with a video), My guru also told me the same.
I will probably ask this to my guru on thsi question, and will respond to this forum,
Thanks
Vissu
With the limited knowledge i have, i think that the notion of printing any vedic text is non-standard. Some of the Ramakrishna mission books tend to split the words from sandhi,put a visargah etc. Books from Mysore don't have dirgha swarita. On the top of this, there are known differences in the pAtha for the same text(!) depending on region.
But as Sri Bhatji mentioned, pronunciation in any form is okay as long as the meaning is not disturbed, and IMHO, as long as the swaras are kept intact.
I do know that chandas plays a role in pronunciation (there was a very useful email from Arvindji in this mailing list with a video), My guru also told me the same.
I will probably ask this to my guru on thsi question, and will respond to this forum,
Thanks
Vissu
Shreyas P. Munshi
Dec 4, 2012, 3:44:23 AM12/4/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com, SL Abhyankar, Nityanand Misra
I looked up my chanting book "mantra puSpam" on page 4 for the shanti mantras.
There is no danda after astu here (in this book), so there should be no sentence pause, betweem astu and mA.
Vimala-ji,
Thank you.
So it seems the full line 'tejasvinA....hai' should be uttered in single go (as I had heard the Tamilian swami do some twenty years ago) and that while there should be no break between 'astu' and 'mA' (as you say), breaking the line at 'tejasvinAvadhItamastuMavid-' and separately uttering 'vishaavahai' should also be avoided for the same reason (besides of course it being not correct to break it as' vid-vishaavahai', as you pointed out earlier)..
With your explanation, and Bhat Sir's assertion that understanding and conveying the meaning should be given more importance than how the mantra is chanted, I too will close the discussion here.
I would still love to know the 'chhanda' in which this shaantipaaTh is structured. Perhaps Shri S L Abhyankar Sir or Shri Nityanand Mishra Sir could throw some light on it (although, in our learning programme, we would be taught chhanda-s only after two years from now!).
With thanks and regards to all,
...Shreyas.
From: "Vimala Sarma" <vsa...@bigpond.com>
Sent: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:46:35
To: <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
Shreyas-Ji
I looked up my chanting book "mantra puSpam" on page 4 for the shanti mantras.
There is no danda after astu here (in this book), so there should be no sentence pause, betweem astu and mA.
I hope this clarifies your question.
I am not an expert in Vedic chanting, so this is my last conribution on this subject.
Vimala
Dr Vimala Sarma
My new e-mail is sarma...@gmail.com
Shreyas P. Munshi
Dec 4, 2012, 9:15:28 AM12/4/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
Thank you, Vissu Sir...Shreyas
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:53:46 +0530 wrote
>Hi Shreyas,
With the limited knowledge i have, i think that the notion of printing any vedic text is non-standard. Some of the Ramakrishna mission books tend to split the words from sandhi,put a visargah etc. Books from Mysore don't have dirgha swarita. On the top of this, there are known differences in the pAtha for the same text(!) depending on region.
But as Sri Bhatji mentioned, pronunciation in any form is okay as long as the meaning is not disturbed, and IMHO, as long as the swaras are kept intact.
I do know that chandas plays a role in pronunciation (there was a very useful email from Arvindji in this mailing list with a video), My guru also told me the same.
I will probably ask this to my guru on thsi question, and will respond to this forum,
Thanks
Vissu
On Tue, 04 Dec 2012 17:53:46 +0530 wrote
>Hi Shreyas,
With the limited knowledge i have, i think that the notion of printing any vedic text is non-standard. Some of the Ramakrishna mission books tend to split the words from sandhi,put a visargah etc. Books from Mysore don't have dirgha swarita. On the top of this, there are known differences in the pAtha for the same text(!) depending on region.
But as Sri Bhatji mentioned, pronunciation in any form is okay as long as the meaning is not disturbed, and IMHO, as long as the swaras are kept intact.
I do know that chandas plays a role in pronunciation (there was a very useful email from Arvindji in this mailing list with a video), My guru also told me the same.
I will probably ask this to my guru on thsi question, and will respond to this forum,
Thanks
Vissu
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Shreyas P. Munshi wrote:
I was taught to pronounce all of the "tEjaswinA......hai" all in a single go. I am taught from a vedic scholar...Vissu.
Vissu Sir,
Is the reciting of the whole line in a single go because of the requirement of the 'chhanda' used? If yes, what is that chhanda? That line has 15 syllables. Is there a chhanda in which the second line has 15 syllables that need to be uttered in a single go? In that case, the printing should also be in one line, no? if the printing leaves space between 'astu' and 'mA' and 'vidvishAvahai', as is found donein many books, a learning reader would, in good faith,break or pause between those terms. Is there no standard way of printing the shAntipATh, Sir?
In any case one thing thatseems to be emerging is that either the line 'tejasvinA....hai' has to be uttered in a single go; or if a break is used it would be after 'astu' to be followedby separately uttering the imperative ist pers dual 'mA vidvishAvahai'. But it would not be correct to break after 'tejas...astumAvid' and following it up by 'vishaavahai' as many seem to be doing.
Is my understanding correct, Sir?
Regards...Shreyas.
From: :
Sent: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:56:43
To: samskrita
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
I was taught to pronounce all of the "tEjaswinA......hai" all in a single go. I am taught from a vedic scholar...Vissu.
Vissu Sir,
Is the reciting of the whole line in a single go because of the requirement of the 'chhanda' used? If yes, what is that chhanda? That line has 15 syllables. Is there a chhanda in which the second line has 15 syllables that need to be uttered in a single go? In that case, the printing should also be in one line, no? if the printing leaves space between 'astu' and 'mA' and 'vidvishAvahai', as is found donein many books, a learning reader would, in good faith,break or pause between those terms. Is there no standard way of printing the shAntipATh, Sir?
In any case one thing thatseems to be emerging is that either the line 'tejasvinA....hai' has to be uttered in a single go; or if a break is used it would be after 'astu' to be followedby separately uttering the imperative ist pers dual 'mA vidvishAvahai'. But it would not be correct to break after 'tejas...astumAvid' and following it up by 'vishaavahai' as many seem to be doing.
Is my understanding correct, Sir?
Regards...Shreyas.
From: :
Sent: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 10:56:43
To: samskrita
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] The correct way of reciting "sahanAvavatu sahanaubhunaktu"
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Vimala Sarma
Dec 4, 2012, 5:55:05 PM12/4/12
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Vissu Mahodaya
I know I said I was not going to keep posting on this but may I please clarify what you said. Vedic texts are always written with the chant marks unless they are the pada texts where sandhi is split. This pada text is not meant for chanting but for exposition only. Each school 'shAkhA' has its own method of chanting and so they have their own books, with their own chant marks. There used to be many different shAkhA families keeping the chants, particularly in Kerala, but now most of them are extinct unfortunately. It is not permitted to chant anyway you like but you must follow a particular school. The most common in the South is the Yajurvedam. If you follow a school the teacher will make you recite again and again until he is satisfied with how you are chanting. Traditionally the most important thing is the sound, not the meaning of words, but of course words must be pronounced correctly, to give the right sound. Therefore young students are taught to chant correctly before even knowing any of the meaning of the words.
Hnbhat B.R.
Dec 5, 2012, 10:13:16 PM12/5/12
to sams...@googlegroups.com
I had earlier cited what should be the demerits in the recitation of Veda. Now I got what should be the merits of recitation of Veda, in reply to the original question, according to पाणिनीयशिक्षा, (and not our will and pleasure what should be correct pronunciation):
माधुर्यमक्षरव्यक्तिः पदच्छेदस्तु सुस्वरः|
धैर्यं लयसमर्थं च षडेते पाठका गुणाः||
सुस्वरः will imply both melody of voice and also the accentuation स्वर-s which are native only for Vedic mantra-s today.
The underlined emphasizes both the clarity of words and without any deformation of स्वर-s.
विश्वनाथ: बण्डारु
Dec 6, 2012, 12:17:29 AM12/6/12
to samskrita
Vimala bhagini,
I would like to add that, I am learning taittiriya samhita from my guru in the traditional gurukula system. The comments made by me are based on the knowledge i gained first hand over time.
I don't believe I mentioned chanting in any way is acceptable. I was more talking about a given mantra, whether it can be split by way of pausing some where in the middle, for convenience of chanting. I mentioned that it is correct to pause as long as the swara mark changes are taken into account, and the sandhi rules are obliged. This is nothing specific to any school or vedic shakha.
In fact, when a student is taught the veda mantras, students would be repeating what guru says. There will be no texts involved until guru is satisfied of the pronounciation. So students have to listen intently to what guru says and repeat them. In the first few days guru would basically be using the pada patha to give the student shorter forms for repeating, over a period of time this length of each recital would be increased until the time you recite every thing in the same anuvaka without pausing. While in standard recitals, you are allowed to combine various anuvakas and pronounce in a single go.
So, technically speaking, if you are pausing while chanting a mantra, you should be conforming to the pada patha. I only mentioned the same by simplifying it as conforming to swara changes as well as sandhi changes. But it is allowed.
Thanks
Vissu
I would like to add that, I am learning taittiriya samhita from my guru in the traditional gurukula system. The comments made by me are based on the knowledge i gained first hand over time.
I don't believe I mentioned chanting in any way is acceptable. I was more talking about a given mantra, whether it can be split by way of pausing some where in the middle, for convenience of chanting. I mentioned that it is correct to pause as long as the swara mark changes are taken into account, and the sandhi rules are obliged. This is nothing specific to any school or vedic shakha.
In fact, when a student is taught the veda mantras, students would be repeating what guru says. There will be no texts involved until guru is satisfied of the pronounciation. So students have to listen intently to what guru says and repeat them. In the first few days guru would basically be using the pada patha to give the student shorter forms for repeating, over a period of time this length of each recital would be increased until the time you recite every thing in the same anuvaka without pausing. While in standard recitals, you are allowed to combine various anuvakas and pronounce in a single go.
So, technically speaking, if you are pausing while chanting a mantra, you should be conforming to the pada patha. I only mentioned the same by simplifying it as conforming to swara changes as well as sandhi changes. But it is allowed.
Thanks
Vissu
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Vimala Sarma <vsa...@bigpond.com> wrote:
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