Burial for Sai Baba

[Vimala Sarma]

Everybody

Please note that I don’t want to start a thread about Sai Baba himself because I know this will be divisive and will go on without resolution. Naresh Mahoday – please do not allow this debate.

 

However the question I put to the group is this.

On Australian television last night it was stated that “He will be buried because it is the custom for holy men to be buried”.

I must confess I have not heard about this custom in the Hindu tradition which requires cremation as soon as possible.

Any comments on this point?

Vimala

 

Dr Vimala  Sarma

612 9699 4414

61409 690 220

 

[Vinodh Rajan]

The Buddha was cremated. Even Mahavira.too

AFAIK the usual Indian practice if one passes away is Cremation, unless one attains Jiva Samadhi like Swami Raghavendra.

V

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[Vidya R]

sanits are not cremated.  they are buried.  My understanding is that saints do not need 'last rites' because they have been redeemed from worldly bondages.

Vidya

---

From: Vinodh Rajan <vinodh...@gmail.com>
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 27, 2011 9:45:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba

[venetia ansell]

As Vidya says, what I have heard is that anyone who has attained samadhi, in the sense of voluntarily leaving their bodies to join with the infinite (unlike everyone else who cannot control when they die and whose souls are then re-born in another body), is not cremated.  However, what I thought is that the body would be put into a river or some other water-body. This at least is what happened to one of my husband's relatives who was a sadhu, and I think he was living in Varanasi so presumably the Ganga.

I would be interested to learn more if others know more about this.  Thanks

[naresh keerthi]

The norm for people that have been formally ordained into sanyAsa, is that they are buried and not cremated. All the pontiffs of the various religious ashrams in India are interred in burials and often have memorial brindAvana-s, funerary structures erected over their samAdhis.

a single shrAddha called the yatishrAddha is performed for monks, after which it isn't necessary to perform annual rites.

There are minor differences in theactual burial details for variuos kinds of sanyAsins, depending on whether they are of the kuTIcaka, bahUdaka, hamsa, paramahamsa or parivrAjaka kind of monk.


Regards,

Naresh

[hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Vimala Sarma <vsa...@bigpond.com> wrote:

But I have seen that the yati-s are burried, some after they leave this body and some while they are live. As in Mantalaya, Raghavendra Yati, the Yati is said to have entered the grave himself, and it was closed as in the film Saleem and Laila film. Burried alive. I do not question the belief nor the tradition. But is the very common view to have the graves, of Yati-s called Vrindavan, as they are frequently visited with devotion and prayers. We can see as many as the number of the Yati-s in the muth, so many numbers of Vrindavan-s in the Muth. This is meant by the custom as reported by the Australian TV. 

I also would request for any authentic reference from Dharmashastra or SmRiti-s to that custom from the members. I myself do not have access or interest in looking for them in the vast body of Dharma-shastra and SmRiti-s. But it somebody knowing can come up with it, it is welcome.

But I can quote one verse in regard to the query from the excerpt of धर्माकुत commentary on Ramayana :

एते धर्मा मनुनापि सङ्गृहीता:---- 'वयस: कर्मणोऽर्थस्य श्रुतस्याभिजनस्य च। वेषवाग्बुद्धिसारूप्यमाचरन्विचरेदिह' इत्येवम्प्रकारेण। स्मृतयो वेदानुसारिण्य:। तथा च कालिदास:---- 'श्रुतेरिवार्थं स्मृतिरन्वगच्छत्' इति। स्मृत्यनन्तरं महतामाचार: प्रमाणम्, तत्सन्देहे व्यवस्थापकत्वात्। तदुक्तम्---- 'अर्थोऽपि नैक: स्मृतयो विभिन्ना नैको मुनिर्यस्य मतं प्रमाणम्। धर्मस्य तत्त्वं निहितं गुहायां महाजनो येन गत: स पन्था:' इति। 

The same is meant by custom. The variant is the first stanza, begins with  "श्रुतिर्विभिन्ना स्मृतयो विभिन्नाः" So it may be difficult to trace the origin of the custom exactly to any source.

I too don't want any debate on this.

With regards

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R.
EFEO,
PONDICHERRY

[hnbhat B.R.]

Just I mentioned about Yati-s in Hindu muths. At the time of adopting sanyasa, all the ceremonies during whole life are performed and they are said to be relieved of the relieved of the bondages with body as observed by Vidya. This goes without saying that Buddha and Mahavira are out of Vedic religion and need not be considered with Yati-s who adopted sanyasa- according to Hindu custom. This much I have heard. That may be the reason as an exceptional case, all the yati-s who are adopted sanyasa-ashrama are buried and the burials are are called holy samadhi-s worshiped in the belief they are still live.   

[Padma Kuppa]

I believe that it is common practice for a saint to be buried rather than cremated, Swami Sivananda, Swami Muktananda, Trichy Swami have been buried. The usual practice is to place the body in a salt filled crypt, rather than bury it in the ground and it is done to polarize the saint's presence to a particular place, to preserve his power on the earth. Some guru lineages do not bury, but rather cremate.
I don't know about Ramana Maharishi or Sri Ramakrishna.
Padma

Be The Change (you want to see in the world)

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[Pramod Kulkarni]

many saints get antyakriya done for themsives before taking saMnyaasa. this is presumably done to cut oneself from puurvaashrama. hence they are not cremated.

auddhav

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Vidya R <imar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[hnbhat B.R.]

That depends on the ascetic order one follows. It is a general practice to put the body of anyone who dies in Varanasi, are cremated in Harichanddra Ghat. I don't know much about the other practices. 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:10 AM, venetia ansell <venetia...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Vimala Sarma]

Thank you Naresh Mahodaya – This is a good explanation.

Vimala

[Shreyas P. Munshi]

I dont know about the Saints but I can say this for sanyasins:

Some thirty years ago, I had asked the same question to none other than Swami Chinmayanand-ji, and he,in his typical humorous style, said he did not know and hoped that I told him 'why'! Then he said he could only give his personal understanding and nothing more (note the humility)! He said, even among the Hindus, the funeral pyre is allowed to be lit by only the son of the deceased; if the son is not there or is unavailable, the grandson or great grand son. If none of these are available, the deceased's brother or the closest relative from the paternal side. If no relatives are available, a brahhmin priest or the King is authorized to lit the funeral pyre. He then laughingly said that sanyasins like him have no relatives...only followers or critics! They can all get together and bury him and each as an individual can safely say "I am not guilty, I didnt burn him"!

So Vidya-ji is right when she says "My understanding is that saints do not need 'last rites' because they have been redeemed from worldly bondages". The difference is, as Swamiji humorously but effectively explained, not only that there no 'need' but there is no individual authourized to perform the last rites. In absence of any other explanation, I would humbly go with Swamiji's explanation. It sounds so logical!
...Shreyas




On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:58:11 +0530 wrote

>sanits are not cremated. they are buried. My understanding is that saints do not need 'last rites' because they have been redeemed from worldly bondages.
Vidya

From: Vinodh Rajan
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 27, 2011 9:45:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba

The Buddha was cremated.
Even Mahavira.too
AFAIK the usual Indian practice if one passes away is Cremation, unless one attains Jiva Samadhi like Swami Raghavendra.
V

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Vimala Sarma wrote:


EverybodyPlease note that I don’t want to start a thread about Sai Baba himself because I know this will be divisive and will go on without resolution. Naresh Mahoday – please do not allow this debate.

However the question I put to the group is this.On Australian television last night it was stated that “He will be buried because it is the custom for holy men to be buried”.

I must confess I have not heard about this custom in the Hindu tradition which requires cremation as soon as possible.Any comments on this point?Vimala

Dr Vimala Sarma612 9699 441461409 690 220

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[narayan iyer]

Namo namaH, I shall share the little bit of knowledge I have on this subject. When one ordains sanyas-ashrama, he is supposed to take on a new birth, including new nama-karana.  Before he becomes a sanyasi he does last-rites for himself and his pitrs and subsequently gives up all agni-karyas.  So there is no prayoga of agni for a sanyasi.  So ligically there cannot be anthyeshti for a sanyasi, since he has stopped maintaining the srauta-agnis and therefore his mortal coils are buried on giving up the physical body. Generally it is believed that the burial is a new phenomenon after establishment of yati dharma after Sri Adi Sankara, but the belief is incorrect.  Please refer to the mantra "Ye agni dhagDhaa; ye an-agni dhagDhaa" addressed to the nakshtra Magha (an asterim supposed to be representing pitrs in vedic lore) in Nakshatra suktam. Regards, narayan  --- On Thu, 4/28/11, Vimala Sarma <vsa...@bigpond.com> wrote:

--

[rahul vedi]

Dear Vimlaavarye

The ordinary form of sansakaara is with fire. You are right about that.

However, there are certain categories of people who are not put to that sansakaara.

Usually the sanyaasi and yogi of certain orders are buried.

I am not sure if this has something to do with their special capacity to sit in samaadhi where life signs are hard to detect - just my guess.

Very young born are also put to fire.

I hope this should be enough for now as this group is primarily for sanskrit and not about practices related to life.

bhavadiiyaH

raahulaH

--

[Vimala Sarma]

Thank you very much Bhat Mahodaya, for this reference.  Your vast knowledge of Sanskrit texts is truly impressive!

Vimala

--

[Sunder Hattangadi]

Raj Bali Pandey's book,aj Bali Pandey's book 'Hindu Samskaras' gives references to Taittiriya Aranyaka and Baudhayana Shrauta Sutras for the practice.

 

The following sites may be useful for further study:

 

http://www.celextel.org/summaryofvedantabooks/summaryofjivanmuktiviveka.html

describes the types of sanyasa (kutichaka, bahudaka, hamsa, paramahamsa)

 

http://sanskritweb.net/yajurveda/index.html#TA    (Taittiriya Aranyaka)

 

http://www.archive.org/details/BaudhayanaSrautaSutra   (Baudhayana sutra)

 

 http://www.khapre.org/portal/url/sa/sahitya/pustak/dharma/0308/z90309044042(धर्मसिंधु.अथमृतयतिसंस्कारः).aspx

(for mrita-yati-samskara)

 

Regards,

 

sunder

 

 

 

 

From: hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba

[hnbhat B.R.]

Thank you for the precise references. with additional information. I request the others to invent the sites to get the precise reference for the practice.

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[Vimala Sarma]

Thank you for the references, Sunder Mahodaya. 

Thank you everybody for their input.

I guess we can close this thread now.

Best wishes

Vimala

 

From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sunder Hattangadi
Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 7:25 AM
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba

 

Raj Bali Pandey's book,aj Bali Pandey's book 'Hindu Samskaras' gives references to Taittiriya Aranyaka and Baudhayana Shrauta Sutras for the practice.

 

The following sites may be useful for further study:

 

http://www.celextel.org/summaryofvedantabooks/summaryofjivanmuktiviveka.html

describes the types of sanyasa (kutichaka, bahudaka, hamsa, paramahamsa)

 

http://sanskritweb.net/yajurveda/index.html#TA    (Taittiriya Aranyaka)

 

http://www.archive.org/details/BaudhayanaSrautaSutra   (Baudhayana sutra)

 

 http://www.khapre.org/portal/url/sa/sahitya/pustak/dharma/0308/z90309044042(धर्मसिंधु.अथमृतयतिसंस्कारः).aspx

(for mrita-yati-samskara)

 

Regards,

 

sunder

 

 

 

 

 

From: hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba

I also would request for any authentic reference from Dharmashastra or SmRiti-s to that custom from the members. I myself do not have access or interest in looking for them in the vast body of Dharma-shastra and SmRiti-s. But it somebody knowing can come up with it, it is welcome.

--

[R. Jambunathan]

I realize that this thread is closed. i was just wondering, if this doubt might have been cleared, if  kanchi or mutts could have been contacted about their sampradayams and the basis for those practices.

With namaskarams,

-Jambunathan

[Shambhu]

Although the thread was closed and there was this note by Jambunathan
mahodaya, I am adding some thoughts.

While accepting the sanyAsAshrama by a dwija, the seeker undertakes
the virajA hOma, among other things. Although now it is a popular
notion that sanyAsa means abandoning everything, there is no such
import in this hOma (or in the life of great sanyAsis such as
VidyAraNya, MaDhva, RAmAnuja, or Shankara). Instead, the hOma is a
process of prAyaschchitta, cleansing, and merging the individual self
with all that there is, i.e., the Brahman (jyOtiH) and its manifest
universe. Hence probably it is said, for a sanyAsi, svadEshO
Bhuvanatrayam. The seeker runs away from nothing except his ego and
self-interests: avyaktaBhAvairahankArairjyOtiraham virajA vipApmA
BhUyAsaG swAhA. He is seeking shudDhi in everything else, in his
physical body as well as in the prapa~Ncha. There is no abandonment
but total acceptance of all as his own and that he indeed is He.
“jyOtiraham” can be taken both ways, I want to, and I am. Such a
person, merged with all there is, is free from any karma! He also has
no uttara-aDhikAri and kartr to do his anthyEShTi! He owns nothing; he
is not a legal person (this was not the case with Bhagawan Shri Baba).
This seems to be the basic logic of the sUtras (bODhAyana, 800 BC
onwards), from which all the diverse paDhatis for the death ceremony
for the sanyAsis have sprung up (which many members have narrated).
Now the social reformations have benefited the shUdra too to become
sanyAsi/sanyAsin.

Members may check http://www.shraddhananda.com/The_final_fire_sacrifice.html
on some of the virajA hOma mantras (there are some typo errors –
'AGhrANa rEtO' as 'AGhrAN arEtO' etc. that members may readily spot).
You may be able to hear it here (keeping in mind some uchChAra errors
-:): http://www.rhapsody.com/uma-mohan/sounds-of-harmony.

In some traditions (padDhatis), the tila hOma mantras (from
mahAnArAyaNOpanishad) are also added, where the prapa~Ncha (gAvaH,
hiraNyam, Dhanam, annam, pAnam, sarasAn, sapiShtAn, ganDhAra, shriyam,
lakShmim, puShtim, kIrtim, anr`NyatAm, brahmaNyam, bahuputraTtAm,
prajAm, shradDhA, mEDhA, prajnA) and the spiritual world are not
merely sought but "sam dadAtu swAhA"; only the accumulated pApam is
discarded and burnt.

An interesting insight narrated in the voice of the jIvAtma is here:
http://vi1.org/mantras/virajahomam/virajahomam.mp3.

Countless are the ritual ways of becoming a sanyAsi (male) or sanyAsin
(female), through the various padDhatis as well as, these days,
outside of them too, with infinite kinds of dilutions, mutations, and
distortions in practice and in documenting them, as you may spot here:
http://www.adolphus.nl/xcrpts/xctripa.html (“virajA hOma mantras are
from puruSha sUkta”).

Some undertake the virajA hOma in the gr`hasThAshrama as well, as part
of several other prAyaschchitta hOmas, such as in the annual
upAkarama, kUShmANda havana, pAshupata vrata, etc.

On Apr 30, 11:03 am, R. Jambunathan <jamb...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
> I realize that this thread is closed. i was just wondering, if this  
> doubt might have been cleared, if  kanchi or mutts could have been  
> contacted about their sampradayams and the basis for those practices.
>
> With namaskarams,
> -Jambunathan
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:17 PM, Vimala Sarma wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thank you for the references, Sunder Mahodaya.
> > Thank you everybody for their input.
> > I guess we can close this thread now.
> > Best wishes
> > Vimala
>
> > From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com]  
> > On Behalf Of Sunder Hattangadi
> > Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 7:25 AM
> > To: sams...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Burial for Sai Baba
>
> > Raj Bali Pandey's book,aj Bali Pandey's book 'Hindu Samskaras' gives  
> > references to Taittiriya Aranyaka and Baudhayana Shrauta Sutras for  
> > the practice.
>
> > The following sites may be useful for further study:
>

> >http://www.celextel.org/summaryofvedantabooks/summaryofjivanmuktivive...

> > describes the types of sanyasa (kutichaka, bahudaka, hamsa,  
> > paramahamsa)
>
> >http://sanskritweb.net/yajurveda/index.html#TA   (Taittiriya  
> > Aranyaka)
>
> >http://www.archive.org/details/BaudhayanaSrautaSutra  (Baudhayana  
> > sutra)
>

> >  http://www.khapre.org/portal/url/sa/sahitya/pustak/dharma/0308/z90309...(

> > धर्मसिंधु
> > .अथमृतयतिसंस्कारः).aspx
> > (for mrita-yati-samskara)
>
> > Regards,
>
> > sunder
>