pitch bend control?

[ds78749]

> A question....is therea bend key (up or down) that does what a pitch wheel does? Im gonna
be using this! Thank you. The possibilities are mind boggling...will
keep you posted!

[samchillian]

the short answer is no, unfortunately, for right now.

but it's something i'd like to see - in fact i had a pitch bend on my
last keyboard (a knob on the keyboard itself) - but as is often the
case, progress meant (temporarily) losing features!

however, in the meantime you can do what i do, which is to midi merge
with a regular keyboard - you need a MIDI interface, which should show
up in your list of MIDI inputs in your various applications. then you
can move the pitch bend wheel on your regular MIDI keyboard and it will
affect the pitch of the note currently being held on samchillian (you
may need to set the relevant track of the receiving software to receive
midi events from all sources). continue posting on this thread if you
have trouble getting this to work

bear in mind that samchillian sends pitch bend before every note
(something i did to get the microtonality, though it happens before
notes in non-microtonal scales as well), so that if you are using this
pitch bend each subsequent note being struck will reset the pitch bend
value. because of this, if i am using the pitch bend wheel i'll use it
to change the pitch of a note i am holding, but then i won't play other
notes while still bending. (or if i do i will realize it will be an
unusual effect.)

likewise you can midi merge in a controller pedal, something i do as
well

anyway - pitch bend/midi cont. control are definitely on the to-do list

[mark gobbin]

midi sucks bigtime.

I wouldn't know how to use OSC though, no programs support it.

[samchillian]

> midi sucks bigtime.

well i do try to avoid it these days - actually i use a usb controller,
so i guess in my system there's no actual MIDI as far as the pitch bend
is concerned

> I wouldn't know how to use OSC though, no programs support it.

what is "OSC"?

[Fabian Kondziella]

OSC is a more advanced protocol than MIDI allowing lots of nice things including a much higher resolution. it's been around for a while now, but hasn't caught on, really.

as far as i know your usb controller does send MIDI - it sends it via usb, that's true, but in the end he only sends MIDI data, with all the limits that implies. i do the same, though, not much else i could do. ;-D

cheers,
fabian

[mark gobbin]

I hear rumours that reason 4 will support it but... actually I didn't even
read the original rumor I just saw it in a google search. Maybe I was
dreaming.

And version 4's a long way off anyway.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabian Kondziella" <fa...@gmx.eu>
To: <samch...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: pitch bend control?

>

[mark gobbin]

>sends MIDI data, with all the limits that implies. i do the same, though,
>not much else i could do. ;-D

you made a controller too? or are you just saying you use programs that use
it

[Fabian Kondziella]

i didn't make a controller, i just have a few usb-midi controllers. they connect to my pc via usb and control various vst plug-ins. but although they connect via usb, all those controllers (and the others of its kind) still send ordinary midi data (in some cases maybe NRPN, too, but that's not supported by most software, either), which was all i was trying to say.

sorry if i confused, shame on me. ;-)

oh, and regarding realtime control of samchillian - a pitchbend wheel doesn't seem like a good option to me, anyway, since both hands are already occupied.
for that reason i just got myself one of those really cheap usb-pc-racing wheels that come with foot pedals. i don't use the racing wheel itself, but i translate the gas and break pedals to midi cc, e.g. pitchbend.
no pedal pressed translated to a value of 64. the gas and break pedal then (in relative relation to each other, when both are held down) make the value go up to 127 or down to 0 respectively.

another cheap option for you might me one of creative's 'prodikeys' computer keyboards. i bought the prodikeys DM a couple of months ago. it's a computer keyboard with an integrated mini-midi-keyboard underneath the palm rest and it also includes a pitchbend wheel left of the tab and caps-lock key.

i hope i managed to explain this to some degree. i just found the racing wheel foot pedal useful as it's a lot cheaper than dedicated 'music' foot pedals and allows me to further modulate my samchillian playing without my hands having to leave the keyboard. the pitchbend wheel on the prodikeys DM is useful in addition, too. :-)

cheers,

fabian

[Eitan Shefer]

man...

that sounds like a really cool solution, kudos!

I'm not sure I folow the technicalities of use for it though.

- the sustained value for the pitch bend is 64, right.

- when not pressing the break the gas pedal goes from 64-127?
- when pressing the break the gas pedal cc polarity and range changes from 63-0? how is this done?

Cheers,
Eitan.

[Fabian Kondziella]

hi,

i'll try to explain in more detail. :-)

'the sustained value for the pitch bend is 64, right.'
- right!

'when not pressing the break the gas pedal goes from 64-127?'
- right!

'when pressing the break the gas pedal cc polarity and range changes from 63-0?'
- wrong, sorta. ;-) the break goes from 63-0, it does not reverse the gas pedals polarity, i'll try to explain what i mean when i say they are relative to one another.

the gas pedal and break pedal behave as described above when starting from the sustain position of 64. they both have the same range, but one acts additively (gas) the other subtractively (break) in relation to the current position.

none pressed would be 64.
but both pressed would also be 64, cause the two would cancel each other out. hmm... know what i mean?

i cannot guarantee how other racing wheels will behave though. i have thought about getting a second (different) one to see whether there are differences and to have even more possibilities at hand... (well, at foot, but still, bad pun ;-))
with my current pedals there are several digital and analog modes and only one of them works as i described. the other modes either don't work or the only work as 'on/off' switches and not gradually, which of course would be a serious limitation.
they are cheap, though and if it didn't work out you could always return it. or do you already have one? then go ahead and try it. :-)

i use the freeware plugin 'shuryoken2' (if i recall its name correctly) to translate the pedals into midi. you should be able to google it if you don't have other joystick-to-midi software, already.

cheers,
fabian

(feel free to ask if something is still unclear... :-D )

[samchillian]

wow i second the coolness of what you are doing!

just a note to say that shuryoken2 didn't come up on google - it may be
of use to others, so can you find a URL for us and post it? i assume
you are using the PC version, yes? And shuryoken2 is PC only?

[samchillian]

just trying to understand what you've done - one pedal is pitch bend,
the other CC #1, say?

the reason i ask is that in your posts it sometimes sounds like the two
are affecting the same parameter

btw i totally agree that doing stuff with your feet is important with
samchillian as you do use both hands to play. and in particular,
having to use pitch bend from another keyboard is pretty dumb, i'll
admit

but i think i'm not really a super foot "power user", myself. there
are times i just want to use my hands for stuff. so i didn't mind with
my old system using the pitch bend wheel that was on the keyboard
itself, as i could hold a note and reach it, even with the same hand.

[Fabian Kondziella]

indeed, it seems i got the name a little wrong. here's the author's site where you can download the (pc-only) joystick-to-midi vst-plug : http://perso.orange.fr/silicon_silicium/index.html

the plug pretty much recognizes all joysticks, gamepads and racing wheels (including foot pedals) as far as i have tried.
so if you have no midi keyboards, no racing wheels, but DO have one of those two-analog-stick game pads, you could use that for pitbend and such, too. either put it next to your keyboard, or try wiggling the analog sticks with your toes.... ;-D

personally i use the racing wheel pedals and samchillian with the pc-only milestone vst plug. it's a physically modeled virtual trumpet. it's not sample based and may not sound 100% like a real trumpet, but it's really great to play, because it is so expressive. i don't have a midi breath controller, and since they are so bloody expensive i play the plug with samchillian. i don't use the footpedals for pitchbend, but for expression/velocity/'air pressure' of the trumpet and use the prodikeys dm inbuilt pitchbend wheel for pitchbend.

it's quite possible that something like this exists on mac OS, but since i haven't owned a mac sind OS 8 i really don't know, but of course for the benefit of the OS X users here, if someone should come across a solution, feel free to tell us of it. :-)

it's such a wonderful age to be a curious kid with a love for the surreal and music. ;-)

fabian

[Fabian Kondziella]

yeah, i totally understand where you're coming from. not trying to badmouth your old keyboard with the pitchbend on it, just ideas for alternatives. i just like the journey through the possibilities of sound, music and realtime control. samchillian has been a great discovery for me.

the two pedals do indeed controll the same parameter, it may be either a limitation of the specific set of wheel/pedals i bought, but more likely that's the way they're supposed to act - in racing games the both affect the same parameter, speed, one decreases ist, the other increases it.

i, too, was a little disappointed when i first found this out, but it's still a pretty nifty setup and has proven useful. i guess i can always get a second set of wheel/pedas to use for a second parameter. in fact i think i'll go and check ebay for another usb wheel/pedals set right now. :-D

fabian

[mark gobbin]

I want to build my own controller but I'd have problems with the interface
and software. Basically when I get to the electronics I want something
that's prebuilt or in kit form, I can't like... program my own
microcontroller for instance. It's way too complicated for me.

I should just take an existing USB device and wire my own things onto
existing buttons. It would have to be a game controller though ( I mean,
there's not much point but I want to design my own button layout)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabian Kondziella" <fa...@gmx.eu>
To: <samch...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: pitch bend control?

>