Lost rudder

[Aleda]

Hello all,

I am writing on behalf of my partners who are close to Turks and Caicos Islands and have lost the port rudder  our SF 44. I am writing on the outside chance that someone knows where a spare may be located or if anyone has the forms/specs for the rudder. Your speedy reply would be appreciated.  Other suggestions/methods to replace the rudder?

 

Also has anyone had work done by Caicos Marina and Boatyard in Caicos. Quality and honesty??

 

Thanks again,

Aleda

[Gideongoudsmit]

Hallo alida , just take a mould of the existing rudder and make 2 halves  from the mould , if you want more info mail me at gideongoudsmit@gmail. Com. Greetings gideon

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[Cindy Wallach]

I am so sorry to hear about your rudder. But I have to say this news made my stomach drop. I mean how many St.F44's have dropped rudders under way? This is a REAL problem. I feel like it's just a matter of time. Can we discuss how this can be prevented? Or can it? What is the flaw that is making this happen to so many of our boats? Ideas?

Cindy

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From: Gideongoudsmit <gideong...@gmail.com>
To: "saintf...@googlegroups.com" <saintf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder

[gideon goudsmit]

Hallo Aleda

2 options , write Duncan Lethbridge the previous builder of the SF 44 and ask if he has the possibility to make and send you a rudder , if that is not possible you have to replicate the rudder that sits on your boat, it is not difficult just time consuming.

Take the rudder of the boat clean it and polish it completely , put a mold release system on the blade and take a mold of this rudder in 2 halves 

If you cannot get the specs I can give you the specs for the rudder we make for the GreenCat 44 that should be simular in strenght.

Take a good look at the shaft of the rudder that is left over and have the shaft copied probably in stainless steel 316 I 

Make shore to weld in supports where the blade attaches to the shaft , when i am back in Amsterdam i can forward you the drawing on how to do it.

Kind regards

Gideon Goudsmit

2013/3/20 Aleda <smok...@yahoo.com>

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[gideon goudsmit]

Hallo Cindy

2 possible reasons for a rudder to break

 

1: the rudder shaft is not connected to a anode so the shaft gets eaten up by galvanic corrosion. if that is the case just order 2 rudder blade anodes and mount these true the hull close to the rudder and ground the shaft to the anode .

If the rudder is already connected to a anode the second reason is that  strength of the shaft is not enough and that is a bigger problem, I presume the shaft is made from Stainless steel 316 L since that is easy to get in South Africa . If you want to maintain the same size rudder and bearings the only option is to produce new rudder blades with increased strength stainless steel shafts made from stainless steel AISI 630 (1.4542)  if the route is chosen it is still wise to connect an anode to the shaft. the blade can be made from normal e glass unless you want that to be stronger as well , the stronger options are Basalt fiber or if the cost is no issue carbon fiber can be used 

If you ant more info I will gladly help

Greetings

Gideon

2013/3/21 Cindy Wallach <cindyw...@yahoo.com>

[G P]

Aleda,
 
Well, you only lost one rudder, you still have one so you
can still handle the boat.
 
I would remove the remaining good rudder and have a
boatyard copy it for now.
 
The molds, including I assume the rudders, were sold
by St. Francis, though I don't know to who.
 
I would contact St. Francis and inquire about a rudder
as well as the name and contact of the party buying the
molds, in hopes one of them might help you with this.
 
I remember there was a warning that the rudder post
could break at a weld joint on some early St. Francis 44
cats.
 
Pete
 

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:11:28 -0700
From: smok...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com

[G P]

Cindy,
 
SF 44 rudders are designed to be sacrificial. If you replace
them with stronger units, you may be trading rudder replacement
for substantial structural damage in the event of a grounding or
underwater collision of some sort.
 
I think the rudders are much easier to replace than the aft
bearing tubes and hull structures.
 
Pete
 

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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:57:00 +0100

Subject: Re: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder

From: gideong...@gmail.com
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com

[Steve Walsh]

Just curious what hull number is the SF44 that lost their rudder? (Aleda)
 
Duncan had the specs for the 44's rudder back in 2008, he may still have the specs. The molds were sold to Knysna Marine, also on the east coast of South Africa. They would be a possible contact as well.
 
Steve
'Fine Line'
 

---

From: cap...@hotmail.com
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:50:58 -0500

[KWood]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone.  I'm on the boat now, and we've just made the decision to head north still with one rudder and have a new one made at RB in Spanish Wells or in Nassau (does anyone have any suggestions for candidates there?), as we don't want to be in the TCI for another couple of weeks (likely given 3 government holidays in the next 8 days!). 

Though ours was launched in Dec 1998, it is an earlier hull number - 016 - as apparently there had been some delays in completion and launching.  So, I suspect it could have the earlier rudder design.  Ours appears to have broken off right at the bottom of the outer/upper post, where the inner/lower one enters and is welded to it. Only the 6-9" or so of the upper post, and the upper horizontal stainless structural member remain - no fibreglass to be seen.

Aleda has been in touch with Duncan - who apparently indicated he long ago sold all the moulds and no longer has any specs, drawings etc..  And we know Knysna bought them, and in fact still has a Knysna 440 on their website which is a further evolution of the same design.  However, they apparently told Aleda they also no longer have the rudder specs as they changed the rudder design some time back.  I'm a bit incredulous that even if that's the case they didn't keep the old info around....and likewise that neither Duncan nor George Godfrey...no one anywhere it seems...has specs/drawings for the SF44!  George did, however get us the attached diagram of the SF50 rudder - which seems to be quite similar in construction, but with the upper/outer rudder post extended significantly deeper than on the 44. 

We do have a mould down in St. Vincent, where the boat was for the last several years (the other rudder had to be replace some time back when a charter guest parked it on a reef) --- but it's probably more expensive and time consuming to get it from there to here than to make a new one.  But, if anyone's down in the Windwards and needs a rudder made, let me know!

What would be very  helpful if anyone in the group could tell us is a) how SF changed the design after the early problems; b) anydetails of how Knysna redesigned it (and if it would be compatible and has proven superior) or c) if an improved construction/design has been done - or you would suggest.  It DOES make sense to have them sacrificial, as long as they don't sacrifice too easily!  So maybe they can be improved upon without changing the basic idea that the rudder will go before the hull gets damaged significantly.

Again, we appreciate any and all help and comments.

Kevin

[motoyuki sato]

Hi Kevin,

 

My name is Motoyuki Sato and my boat is 1990 St. Francis 43, hull No.1.

 

Now I am in Grenada and I lost stbd rudder today.

I need to make one near this area as soon as possible.

Do you have a mold in St. Vincent ?

Is it kept by somebody you know ?

If it is still in St. Vincent and well maintained, I am very interested in.

 

You have made a new rudder in St. Vincent several years ago, right ?

Could you please tell me how much time and cost were there, if possible ?

 

Thank you very much in advance for your kind reply

 

Motoyuki Sato

Captain, S/V Umineko

2013/3/25 KWood <wcap...@colorado.net>

--

Motoyuki Sato

Captain, S/V Umineko

[Cindy Wallach]

Hi there,

I am so disheartened to hear yet another boat losing its rudder. I am going to forward a series of email exchanged 6years ago when we were helping a friend of ours who lost their rudder from their StF44 (Bravo) off of Papua New Guinea. The emails are from yet another couple on a St.F44 who lost theirs before that and passed along information. I am still in touch with the owners of Bravo, though they are not very plugged in. But I am happy to contact them if there are any questions. Hoping this may help either of you in some way. Seems like we should all chip in for the molds and carry a spare, eh?

conversations pasted below and diagrams attached: If the diagram doesn't appear, let me know!

======================================================

Hello Cindy, we just received your mail.

Concerning your friends (which boat name / hull no. is it?) please tell them the following:

If the stock broke at the same spot as ours, i.e. at the weld that joins the inner and the outer tube, then it is highly likely that the remaining rudder stock is also 'tired' and will break soon as well - especially since it now has to do the job alone. Tell your friends to sail very slowly and smoothly putting as little strain on the rudder as possible to be able to reach the next port.

When our first rudder stock broke we were confident to sail on with just the one rudder (we had done it a few years before after hitting a whale). But 16 hours later - we were on passage from Chagos to Malaysia - the second rudder stock broke at that same stupid weld. We were lucky that a friend was close enough to turn back and tow us the remaining 275 miles. The only thing that was left were the top parts of the stocks and there we could clearly see corroded areas where fatigue was obvious and cracking had started long ago.

For your information: spade rudders should, by specs, be built of one single piece (flattened at the bottom in our case) and no circumferential welds are permitted. On our boat the joint was even rod welded, TIG welding would have lasted longer, but also not forever. Also, no overlapping is allowed (such as in our case with the small lower pipe into the big upper pipe) because of the risk of corrosion. Duncan couldn't have made more mistakes on our stocks.

In your case, we suggest you have one of your rudders x-rayed and if it shows a two-piece construction (a smaller pipe fitted into a bigger pipe) your rudder stocks will also be welded together (the joint is about 150 mm down from the top of the rudder). If so, it would be advisable to have two new properly built rudders made. You may have to replace the 'plastic' sleeves/bearings as well. Good luck!

We are still in the Indian Ocean cruising between SE-Asia, Chagos, Seychelles, Madagascar and East Africa.

Take care and stay in touch,
Heinz and Patricia


P.S. This is boat no.4 (that we know of) with broken rudder stocks (assuming it is the same problem), but Duncan has not taken any measures to inform the owners. What an attitude! How does he cope with this responsibility? How does he cope with this responsibility? What if the rudders are lost close to a 'wild' lee shore or reef? Isn't he gambling with the lives of his clients?

When we noticed that Duncan was acting the 'ostrich' (putting his head in the sand) we wrote to 4 renowned sailing magazines, asking them to print a warning. Three didn't even bother replying. The British 'Yachting World' seemed very keen  but after many letters went back and forth between them, Duncan and us the person we were dealing with suddenly left the job and nothing was ever published - we gave up and simply sent the warning you remember to as many St. Francis 44 owners we could get hold of.

=======================================================================================================================

ATTENTION to all owners of a ST. FRANCIS 44 catamaran!

If your rudder shafts are built like the ones on our boat were, then it is just a matter of time until they too will break. Our PAPAGENA is a St. Francis 44, hull no. 23, launched Dec. 1996.

In August 2003, PAPAGENA lost both! rudder blades within 16 hours of each other on a 2000 nm passage from Chagos to Malaysia. Fortunately for us a friendly yacht was nearby and towed us the remaining 270 nm to Thailand. And, as we know now, another St. Francis 44, SEAING DOUBLE, hull no. 21, also lost one rudder blade with exactly the same symptoms!

The one-piece rudder stock as designed by the naval architect was changed to a two-piece stock by the boatyard and the two pipes welded together by rod. This type of weld makes the stainless steel hard and brittle and a guaranteed source of concern. The fracture area on the remaining upper part of the rudder stock was smooth and shiny (like broken glass), a clear indication of changes in the molecular structure of the metal, also signs of corrosion within the fracture show that cracking had started some time ago.

According to a certified shipbuilding and welding engineer the stock of a spade rudder:
- should be a one-piece construction, ie. a single pipe or rod
- may not have any structural circumferential welds (least of all rod welding, of which there were two on each stock!)
- must not have any overlapping parts (increases the risk of corrosion)

As far as we know, the first few boats were built with a one-piece stock, however, the stocks tended to get bent whenever the rudders hit the sandbar in the river that had to be passed on the way out from the boatyard to the ocean (Papagena was the first boat to be launched into the new harbour). By doubling up the pipes, thus creating a two-piece stock, the builder obviously hoped to reinforce the area of maximum stress...

Yes, we contacted Duncan from St. Francis Marine - we first wrote to him right after the incident - but even though we have, in the meantime, presented him with a substantial amount of solid facts, he still refuses to issue any warning let alone acknowledge any error on his part.

We believe it is our moral responsibility to inform you of the problems you may have to face in the future and to issue this warning. We were lucky we got away lightly, but under different circumstances, in gale conditions and/or off a lee shore, the boat or even lives could have been lost.

Since we do not have the E-mail contacts of all St. Francis 44 owners we would much appreciate it if you could forward this warning to any owner you know who is not listed below. We did send all the above information plus photographs and drawings to the editors of the St. Francis Newsletter in February 2004 - reception confirmed by them - but nothing has happened since!?

For more details, photographs and drawings contact:

Heinz and Patricia
SY PAPAGENA
E-mail on board: DH5...@sailmail.com (plain text only; no attachments or photos accepted)
E-mail on land: papage...@yahoo.de

========================================================================================================================================================

Oh Cindy

I have no words to say how amazing you are for us!!!

I'll find some way to send you some sarongs and what else you want from Bali or everywhere else.

Now we are here in the Royal Yacht Club in Papua New Guinea, they have a good structure to fix  our rudder, and it's almost ready. The country is poor but very rich in culture, and the people are amazing and interesting.  I think that in 2 days we are going to Bali.

We love you.

Send a lot of kisses for Zach.

Claudia

((I pasted this one because maybe the Royal Yacht Club in Papua New Guinea can be contacted for help? It's a long shot but who knows?))

---

From: motoyuki sato <motoyu...@gmail.com>
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:54 PM

[Cindy Wallach]

Here are some more from others who have lost their rudders:

==========================================================

Dear Heinz and Patricia,

We've been worried about you due to the tsunami.  Did you experience
any problems with the waves there?  I can't imagine the sufferring of the
people there.

Another St Francis lost both rudders while off the Columbian coastline.
So, you were right in your thinking.  Duncan Letherbridge, owner of the
St Francis cats, admits the early rudders were outsourced and not built
to design specs.  The problem has been corrected, of course, for the
new boats.

Hope all is well with you.

We are headed thru the Panama Canal, ourselves, in a week.  Who knows?
We may meet on the High Seas.

Please let us know how you are.

Cheers for now,

Tina & Peter Dreffin,
s/v "Scud"

==============================================================

Sent: Sun, March 9, 2008 7:07:00 AM
Subject: hi

Hello
You can not believe what happen with us... our other rudder broke!! But at this time we were very close to Galle on Sri Lanka and the sea was not big. It broke for nothing again, so it makes us sure that you need change this St. Francis rudders before do anything. Now we are doing another one. We love the city and the people here. Tomorrow we will go to look around and make some supplies before we leave. The new rudder will be ready on Friday and we should leave here Saturday.
Kisses
Claudia

=======================================================================================================================

Sent: Mon, December 22, 2008 3:39:46 AM
Subject: [Saint Francis OG] Re: On Plumbing and Rudders



Hi All,

New rudders can be ordered from Knysna Marine in SA. They still have
the moulds of the 44's rudders. I bought two new ones last year at a
very reasonable price.

Gert van der Linde

=======================================================================================

Royce,

You might find my discussion of my problems with bent rudders illuminating. I posted it
a couple of months back.

I think you should drop the rudders out and carefully inspect them. It is straightforward
and relatively simple to do with simple hand tools. There are no bearings, but the stainless
rudder shaft rides in a plastic housing, probably delrin or something. There are no seals.

Perhaps the only trick is getting the boat blocked up high enough for the rudders to drop 
sufficiently for the rudder posts to clear. As I remember, this was around 3 feet or so off
the ground to the keel. You can also prep the extraction by disconnecting as much hardware
as possible and having a travel-lift lift you high enough to pull them both out and then
block you normally as you work on them.

You can drop them in the water too, no worry about height now, but the stainless post will
fill with seawater when you go to replace them, and filling your rudders with seawater is
probably not a suggested maintenance technique.

Some of the earlier 44's had rudder shafts that were welded together and could fail unexpectedly.
A source for replacement rudders was given a few months back as I remember, if you need that.

When you get the rudders out, I would check them thoroughly with a straightedge for shaft
bends, and I would attempt to determine the strength of the grip the rudder has on the shaft
by trying to twist it while holding the shaft still.

These items are designed to take strong pressure loads in operation, so I would not be gentle
with the test.

You should also probably check the tiller bar that runs between the rudders. I remember there
being an adjustment there that could affect what I would call toe-in and toe-out if I were talking
about a car. I am talking about a boat though, so it would be rudder-in and rudder-out. I suppose
someone could have messed with this adjustment, but why they would is beyond me.

With the wheel straight ahead, which rudder is straight and which is canted? I would look at the
canted one first.

Finally, if you need to straighten a bent rudder post, I described how to do it about 2 months ago
in this log.

I guess if all the rudders and hardware checked out, I would re-drill the holes locking the tiller
arms to the rudder shafts and get on with life, but that would be my final action and not my first.  

Good Luck,
Greg

---

From: Cindy Wallach <cindyw...@yahoo.com>
To: "saintf...@googlegroups.com" <saintf...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:20 PM

[Cindy Wallach]

One last thing,

Please to both boats who just lost their rudders, please share the boat yard that ends up doing the repair and the cost. We are planning on some long distance cruising in a year or so and might be interested in having a spare made as a precaution. Seems inevitable sadly. Maybe if the yard makes more than one, they might give a little price break for more work? Please do keep us in the loop with the details as we are very interested.

Thank you and please be in touch if there is anything we can do to help.

cheers

Cindy & Doug

s/v Majestic

---

From: Cindy Wallach <cindyw...@yahoo.com>
To: "saintf...@googlegroups.com" <saintf...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:26 PM

[Clinton]

Hello Cindy on Majestic.

Have any Mk II vessels ever lost a rudder?
Thanks.  Clint

Former owner Sand Dollar  2000 Mk II

Clinton W. Lanier

Attorney at Law

Confidential Communication

[Gideongoudsmit]

The rudder shaft of the 43 and 44 are just not strong enough to handle the force with the high speeds this cat can develop, if on top of that some pit corrosion has taken place where the shaft exits the hull the already weak shaft gives way for a quality and much strongershaft just contact jefa in danmark that will gladly produce shafts and if the numbers of shafts to be produced are over 4 you can expect a discount. Once that shFt and rudder is mounted no more problems and yes the bearing is made from delrin or vesconite greetings gideon

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

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[KWood]

Hi Motoyuki,

So sorry to hear we are "in the same boat" in this regard.  Sorry for the slow response - we have made our way from the Turks & Caicos to now the Southern Bahamas and my internet and email has been intermittent and fluky - while I saw a couple of posts after yours, somehow I missed this one until just  now.

In any case, if you have not already made plans, contact Barefoot Yacht Charters in St. Vincent - Seth bar...@vincysurf.com, Ton t...@barefootyachts.com or Philip  phi...@barefootyachts.com should be able to help you out.  Their number is 784-456-9526 - and I just heard from Ton that they do in fact still have the mould.  Steven Lee sgl...@hotmail.com, who is an engineer at Barefoot, built ours, and his cell is 529-1683.  They are a charter company, not a boatyard, but usually try to be helpful to anyone and everyone.

I'm afraid I don't know about cost there, as we didn't pay for it (the bad one was damaged while the boat was out on charter, so Barefoot took care of it).

I'll send them a note to expect to hear from you, and good luck!

Kevin

[KWood]

Also, I've been in contact with Kevin at Knysna; the following may be of interest:

Hi Kevin,

The Knysna 480 and 500 are completely new designs and have nothing in common with the St Francis 48/50 other than the same Naval architect, Angelo Lavranos. However the design of the rudders are very similar to the St Francis 43/44, Knysna 440, Knysna 480/500 and the St Francis 50. The weak point in the older design was the two tube design with the failures happening at the weld. Our new design is a single 72mm tube.

If you went with our new rudders you would have to replace the sleeves in your boat. The bigger sleeves would come with the new rudders.

Regards

Kevin

[KWood]

For those who are interested, I thought I'd share some details on the reconstruction of our rudders for Mustard Seed.  It's rudders - plural - as once we pulled out the "good" (starboard) rudder, we found first that the shaft was bent - laterally (so the rudder was canted outboard), and then that the blade had a significant amount of water intrusion, with the foam core deteriorating and corrosion advancing on the stainless inside. Therefore, we elected to rebuild that one as well as the port one that had broken off at the circumfrencial (?) weld where the smaller diameter lower tube inserted into the upper tube.

Because the diameter of the tube (and therefore bushings) were approximately 60mm - the drawing provided here for boat #23 showed 59.5mm, and we measured ours at approximately 59.8mm - a size not readily available in the Bahamas, and even from US supplier --- we decided to reuse the existing upper/outer tubes. Our fabricator inserted and welded inside the upper tubes lengths of 2" solid stainless shaft (which happened to fit perfectly the I/D), extending all the way to the top of the tube as well as below it for a distance sufficient to form the backbone of the new rudder blades.  While making for a heavier rudder post, we thought it better to have increased risk of hull damage in a future grounding than to risk losing one again while at sea.  Though we only lost one, and while only a short distance offshore in only modestly boisterous conditions, the consequences of losing one or both in serious storm conditions in mid-ocean (or worse yet, on a dangerous lee shore) seemed far uglier than the possible additional damage that might be incurred in a grounding and collision.

For the blade of the rudder, we elected to use sheet steel to fabricate a flag-like rudder section with sufficient surface area to be able to provide some steering in the event of damage that might knock away all of the fiberglass section - rather than the thin horizontal strips used in the original construction; and to build the section with laminated marine plywood and West System epoxy, rather than a foam core - to provide greater durability and resistance to water intrusion.

Attached are some photos of the old rudders and the new ones under construction.

Kevin

[KWood]

[G P]

Kevin,

You asked about the rudder design on the 44's.  I have bent and straightened the shaft of each rudder once. If mine were going to break, they would probably have done so by now.

On Obelix, the rudder shaft is a solid stainless tube with no welds visible anywhere. No doubt this was the original intent of the builders. From memory, the blade is about 12 to 16 inches fore to aft and about 3 feet tall, with nicely tapered leading & trailing edges, perhaps 3 to 4 inches thick in the center.

I suspect a suitably proportioned blade of stainless welded to a shaft would get you back to more capable craftsmen in a pinch.

Pete

---

Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 12:55:16 -0700
From: wcap...@colorado.net
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder

[wcapitalltd]

Ho Motoyuki,

Reading about the brand new catamaran abandoned in the Atlantic recently - and THEIR problems with rudders - I started to think you and I to be fortunate in losing only one, from our much older boats!  So, I thought I'd say hello and ask how things went with your new rudder at Barefoot in St. Vincent, and with your cruising since then...?

We ended up sailing several hundred miles, continuing from the Mona Passage off the DR where we lost our one rudder, to the Turks & Caicos and then cruising thru the Bahamas until we reached the intended end point in the Abacos.  There, we had a new one built, and the existing one completely rebuilt, by Ron Engle of Abaco Multihulls.  He mostly runs a small charter business but also has a lot of boat building experience.  He ended up inserting solid stainless shaft inside the hollow tubing of the original rudder posts; as it turns out it was hard to get the right outside diameter tubing with as thick a section as we wanted, but standard (2" I believe) solid shaft fit perfectly inside.  He also built the rudders of marine plywood and West System epoxy, rather than foam and fiberglass.  While our new rudders are a bit heavier than the old ones, we're confident they are much stronger as well. Now, we just need to make sure we don't ground the boat so hard sometime that the rudders damage the hull because they are extra-strong and won't break!

All the best, and happy voyaging,

Kevin Wood

S/V Mustard Seed

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[G P]

To All:

I regard the rudders on my SF 44 as the most vulnerable aspect of the boat.

To This end, I NEVER back into unfamiliar water for any reason. (I might back into a slip).

I avoid backing into ANYTHING. Bow in is magic.

A little bell should go off in our head "I am backing into something I don't know"
If It does, STOP!!!

Yes, I've bent the rudders, twice, and no, I don't want to do it again, ever.

Just my thoughts,
Pete

---

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 10:55:00 -0700

Subject: Re: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder

From: wcapi...@gmail.com
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saintfrancis.

[Gideongoudsmit]

Hello Motoyuki 

Please take a mold of the existing rudder and make 2 rudders with duplex steel instead of the standard 316 , the rudder stocks are probably under dimensioned but increasing the thickness is a hassle so by going to duplex you are almost doubling the strenght , you might want to contact other 43 and 44 owners to have a batch of these rudders made to save all of you considerable $$$ if you have the rudder drawing your best bet is having the stocks made by Jefa in Danmark , they really know what they are doing 

Good luck in getting it done 

Gideon   

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

[Gideongoudsmit]

You can off course contact Angelo Lavranos in New Zealand who designed the boat and will have the rudders specs and drawings 

Gideon 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

Op 26 jan. 2014 om 00:16 heeft G P <cap...@hotmail.com> het volgende geschreven:

[motoyuki sato]

Thank you gentlemen for many comments. I had a new one to be made at Barefoot, St. Vincent.

The rudder stock is made of 316 stainless tube. It can bent. But I think it is better rather than having very strong stock and break the rudder pipe of hull side. In World ARC 2012-2013, one boat sunk in front of my eye balls in the Indian Ocean. The rudder of the boat hit something

and break the hull and sea water came in and she sunk after about 7 hours.

I would like stay with the concept that the sacrifice is rudder when is hit, not the hull.

I think St. Francis's rudder is a bit long. and it might have a angled gap between the hull & top portion of the rudderl for in case the stock has small bend but still does not touch the top of the trading edge on the hull.

Motoyuki Sato 

S/V Umineko, S/F 43 hull No1, in Panama City, Panama

[G P]

Hi All,
Just wanted to mention, for SF 44's with the bulkhead behind the aft toilets: This forms a watertight compartment around the rudder assemblies. So if you do rip out your super strong rudders on something, I very much doubt the boat will sink. The bow has a similar construction, in case you ram a container at night or something. Controlling the boat could be a problem though. Remember, you can always un-yoke the rudders and steer with a single good rudder. It works, I have done it.

I am told that even with both hulls holed in the middle, the boat will still not sink. There is enough residual bouyancy in the fiberglass hulls to keep it afloat. This was a major positive for me when I bought my 44. This remains untested by me so far.

You might think you could steer by using the throttles differentially on the two engines. I have never been able to make this work, though I have tried.

Cheers,
Pete

Subject: Re: [Saint Francis OG] Lost rudder

From: motoyu...@gmail.com
To: saintf...@googlegroups.com