Warranty on St Francis Catamarans

[Bamboo]

Looking for information from other owners as to warranty and service
issues pertaining to their St Francis Catamarans. Not talking about
electronics or other add-ons.

Have you experienced problems?
How were they handled?
Who (fromSt Francis) did you deal with?

Anxiously awaiting replies, Thank you
Bill & Roxanne Chesnes
s/v BAMBOO
hull #10

[Judy & Michael Roth]

Simple!  You just take the boat back to South Africa within 5 years, and they'll help you fix it.  Couldn't be easier!  I received no replies to difficulties I had with my 44 until 5 years had passed.  Then I was advised what to do with cracking and delamination of the hull.  What warranty?

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[David Wakeham]

 

Hi Bill & Roxanne

 

 

Spoke with Duncan, e.g we have a small crack in the galley sink which happened on a crossing from OZ to NZ

 

After many emails and negative response his latest out, was to insist we had climbed on top of the sink

 

HA HA in 50 knot winds and 8 metre seas, 4 geriatric sailors.   our experience is that the 50 is a great boat

 

But the warranty , WHAT WARRANTY.!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bill send me an email to harm...@powerup.com.au with your concerns and lets see if they match our concerns

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave Wakeham

s/v Sirius

 

hull no 5

 

[schoonerdog]

What does the contract say?

On Nov 26, 5:27 pm, "David Wakeham" <harmo...@powerup.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Bill & Roxanne
>
> Spoke with Duncan, e.g we have a small crack in the galley sink which
> happened on a crossing from OZ to NZ
>
> After many emails and negative response his latest out, was to insist we had
> climbed on top of the sink
>
> HA HA in 50 knot winds and 8 metre seas, 4 geriatric sailors.   our
> experience is that the 50 is a great boat
>
> But the warranty , WHAT WARRANTY.!!!!!!!!!!
>

> Bill send me an email to harmo...@powerup.com.au with your concerns and lets

[Steve Walsh]

What was the sink made of? If it is stainless you need to contact the manufacture. If it was corrion it should be fixable at very little cost.

> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:00:42 -0800
> Subject: [Saint Francis OG] Re: Warranty on St Francis Catamarans
> From: dougv...@yahoo.com
> To: saintf...@googlegroups.com

> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Saint Francis Owners Group" group.
> To post to this group, send email to saintf...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to saintfrancis...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/saintfrancis?hl=en.
>
>

---

Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.

[David Wakeham]

Hi Steve

 

It is made of Corrion, that’s one of the problems  the first sink broke in the factory, and the second one on the boat at sea.

 

Iam told by experts?? In Oz that carrion has not been used in boats here for over 10 years as not a stable product.

 

I agree that carrion is easy to fix and Duncan sent a sample out but no one here will attempt to mend it.

 

Mainly as to where the crack is very close to the stove. And also not far from the chain plates. So even if repaired the stress on

 

The hull would crack it again

 

Solution is to replace the top

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Bamboo]

CRACKING and DELAMINATION ? That's serious. I think too many people
have kept quiet for too long. Do you know any other owners to ask to
join this conversation? I've written to the manager of the site
asking for a 'members list' to be posted. I think a bit more openness
would be most helpful for all of us.

> > saintfrancis...@googlegroups.com<saintfrancis%2Bunsubscribe@google­groups.com>
> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/saintfrancis?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Steve Walsh]

Sorry to here of your difficulties. Another fix might be to cut the sink out leaving a hole for an under mount or drop in stainless sink. Boats do move under load and this cold be the problem. Maybe Duncan would help with the SS fix as that should take care of your issue. We have a corian counter top that has not had any issues. It is just the counter top though, not a corian sink.

---

From: harm...@powerup.com.au

To: saintf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Saint Francis OG] Re: Warranty on St Francis Catamarans

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:11:09 +1000

Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.

[G P]

Steve,

I had a marine survey done before I purchased Obelix, so I knew what I was buying. I am sure these are available in almost every corner of the world. I essentially understood I was buying her "as is". That said, I have found St. Francis to be very helpful and willing to work with me on repair issues. I don't think you will find anyone that stands behind there product better than St. Francis.

The other side of the coin I have personally witnessed is new owners that wanted damage they caused to their boat to be covered under warranty. New owners are perhaps most vulnerable to making costly mistakes, but I do not think Duncan should be obliged to fund the cost of the repairs. Boats are expensive and costly mistakes are easy to make. Running aground, trailing lines in the water, bending the rudders (my own pet mistake), collisions with docks, failing to unzip the sail cover before hoisting the main, failing to reef in excessive wind, and a whole host of other things that don't spring to mind right now can all cause costly repairs. It takes awhile to learn how to handle a new boat. Even seasoned owners occasionally have lapses. So I would say that the St. Francis warranty is that the boat is seaworthy to South African standards and free of defect at the time of delivery. Anything past that is a negotiation. My personal experience is that Duncan interprets this liberally.

My St. Francis does not flex, or, should I say, it does not flex enough to crack my sink or countertop. Perhaps I have never stressed the rigging enough to cause significant damage, I am always one to reef early and often. Perhaps the crack in the sink is symptomatic of some more fundamental problem. If it were my boat, I would get to the root cause immediately. Certainly before I put to sea again, but that is me. Flexing dramatic enough to crack a counter top should be observable with an appropriately placed straightedge. I would want to know what was happening. Personally, I would be highly suspicious that hull flexing was the problem here, but I also would not entirely rule it out until I found the problem.

I also am at a loss to explain the source of the crack, so I do not wish to suggest the owner is an idiot either. I believe the crack exists. I am willing to believe the owner did not cause the crack through error. I am suspicious of the hull flex theory, but I have no better explanation to offer at this point and from this distance.The crack, if stress related, should respond to changes in stress in the boat. I would try to correlate flexing (widening of the crack) with what was happening externally to the rigging. It might not work, but the existence of the crack is all you have to work with at this point, so you have to use it. The "canary in the mine" theory. Perhaps the standing rigging is improperly tensioned and allows the mast to snap back and forth under load, I don't really know.

De-lamination is a structural issue, and I would pursue this with St. Francis. Whether they admitted any culpability or not, I would certainly want their input on the best repair to attempt, and I would assure a good, solid repair before I put to sea in that boat again.

As far as the sink goes, mine is coriander too. Mine is not cracked, but the bottom is chipped in several places, which is my fault. I was considering retro-fitting a S/S unit and new faucet assembly this year anyway. I am at least certain that my damage is not Duncan's fault, and I do not expect him to fund any repairs for damage I have caused.

If anyone has any suggestions for drop-in sinks, I am open. Otherwise I will try Lowes and Home Depot, and an RV strore for a suitable unit.

My 2 cents,
Greg Peterson
S/V Obelix

---

From: captai...@hotmail.com

To: saintf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Saint Francis OG] Re: Warranty on St Francis Catamarans

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:50:10 -0800

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[David Wakeham]

Greg

I don’t recall anyone saying the sink problem was Duncan’s fault

 

But when you are witnessed to 2 sinks cracking one in the factory and one on the boat you should

 as a sensible person ask yourself why??Is this happening ,

 

 you might not have experienced the same problem except your own problem with the sink.

 

our problem is with batch of corrion that was suppled to Duncan (it is not his fault if it was defected)

 

The final  issue is that Corrian in south Africa should address the problem.As you say you are at a loss

 to explain the source of the crack, so I do not wish to suggest the owner is an idiot,You can be

  suspicious of the hull flex theory

 

,Iam glad to here that you have  no better explanation to offer at this point.

 

The issue is that 2 sink tops have cracked and broken .  Which in our opinion is a carrion fault and not Duncan’s.

 

 But some one should address the issue!!

 

And we should be proactive in addressing the problem. And not be negative, owners of st Francis should be more open if they have faults , wiring /delaminating cracks etc

 

Iam amazed that your boat does not stress, perhaps that is because you have not to many ocean  crossings or you are a fair weather sailor

 

Again I agree with you that at the time of delivery there  were no defects that’s why you should have a warranty eg 3 years

 

In case something unexpected goes wrong , if it comes from an outside product then you have a manufactory warranty

 

I sincerely hope you do not have any problems with the manufactory of your  boat and then have to fight to get it rectified

 

Happy sailing Greg

 

Cheers

 

Dave

S/v Sirius

 

 

 

 

 

.rom: G P [mailto:cap...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2009 3:25 PM
To: St. Francis

Subject: RE: [Saint Francis OG] Re: Warranty on St Francis Catamarans

 

Steve,

I had a marine survey done before I purchased Obelix, so I knew what I was buying. I am sure these are available in almost every corner of the world. I essentially understood I was buying her "as is". That said, I have found St. Francis to be very helpful and willing to work with me on repair issues. I don't think you will find anyone that stands behind there product better than St. Francis.

The other side of the coin I have personally witnessed is new owners that wanted damage they caused to their boat to be covered under warranty. New owners are perhaps most vulnerable to making costly mistakes, but I do not think Duncan should be obliged to fund the cost of the repairs. Boats are expensive and costly mistakes are easy to make. Running aground, trailing lines in the water, bending the rudders (my own pet mistake), collisions with docks, failing to unzip the sail cover before hoisting the main, failing to reef in excessive wind, and a whole host of other things that don't spring to mind right now can all cause costly repairs. It takes awhile to learn how to handle a new boat. Even seasoned owners occasionally have lapses. So I would say that the St. Francis warranty is that the boat is seaworthy to South African standards and free of defect at the time of delivery. Anything past that is a negotiation. My personal experience is that Duncan interprets this liberally.

My St. Francis does not flex, or, should I say, it does not flex enough to crack my sink or countertop. Perhaps I have never stressed the rigging enough to cause significant damage, I am always one to reef early and often. Perhaps the crack in the sink is symptomatic of some more fundamental problem. If it were my boat, I would get to the root cause immediately. Certainly before I put to sea again, but that is me. Flexing dramatic enough to crack a counter top should be observable with an appropriately placed straightedge. I would want to know what was happening. Personally, I would be highly suspicious that hull flexing was the problem here, but I also would not entirely rule it out until I found the problem.

I also am at a loss to explain the source of the crack, so I do not wish to suggest the owner is an idiot either. I believe the crack exists. I am willing to believe the owner did not cause the crack through error

 

 

externally to the rigging. It might not work, but the existence of the crack is all you have to work with at this point, so you have to use it. The "canary in the mine" theory. Perhaps the standing rigging is improperly tensioned and allows the mast to snap back and forth under load, I don't really know.

[Bamboo]

Without listing specific issues in this forum, at this time, I am most
interested in the MATERIAL ,DESIGN and INSTALLATION defects in
the production of a NEW St Francis. Understanding that all new
construction may have some revisions or corrections necessary and not
including things which may have been caused through the fault of the
owner/sailor....I'm talking about real and serious defects in material
and workmanship. My concerns have more to do with 'HOW were these
issues handled" (a concern being that a new owner felt put off for
complaining about a cracked sink , or, was put off long enough that
the warranty ran out) and WHO was your contact person at St
Francis? The core of my questions has to do with wanting to know HOW
was your problem addressed, and WHO was your contact person?
Responses Please......

[Derek Morrison]

In answer to your Warranty questions

I bought a St Francis 48 in 2003 and spent the next 3 1/2 years on a
circumnavigation. Ours was the first of the new boats to sail this distance
and I pushed her hard - I grew up racing and couldn't help myself.

A. Serious failures:
I was always able to reach Duncan by satellite phone and email. He promptly
Fed Exed replacement parts, but never covered the cost of the labor to
replace the parts, or collateral damage caused by these failures. I believe
that all design elements of these failures have been corrected, so you will
probably not face the same:

1. I sheared off my starboard rudder in 30 knots with the spinnaker up on
an approach to Cartagena and my port rudder in a storm between Cartagena
and Panama. Duncan had air lifted a newly designed rudder to Cartagena
which I installed there and a second one to Panama. I had the new design
reviewed by Bruce Kirby (a fellow NYYC member, he designed numerous
successful boats over many years including the Laser and a number of
America's cup boats) and Bruce was satisfied with the new design. There
were costs for the inland handling of these rudders and for their
replacement, which Duncan declined to cover and, instead, complained about
the cost of air shipping the new rudders. I thought this was very
shortsighted of him.

2. On the 48, which has cable steering, there are 2 access hatches under
the swim platform which were poorly designed and installed. One blew out
mid Pacific and the water that came in fried the refrigeration unit for my
cockpit cooler. Duncan promptly FedEx'ed new and improved hatches, but,
again, had no inclination to cover any cost of installation or the
replacement of my cooling unit.

3. Lay-up problems. When the hull was constructed, there were a number of
air bubbles that subsequently expressed themselves as blisters. In Panama,
we found about 60 of them. I photographed them and sent them to Duncan and
we offset the cost of those repairs against the cost of other items he had
shipped to me. In Australia another 20 showed up and were repaired at
minimal cost to me. However, Duncan seemed unfazed by the principle of the
issue; namely, he should insist on covering the cost of repairs like this.
A boat builder in Australia confirmed that they were the result of air
bubbles in the layup of the hulls and not the osmotic failure of the
materials. He also said that he would expect that those would be the last
to be found as the boat had been in the water for 2 1/2 years at the time.
None have since shown up.

3. The aft hatch covers (at the top of the transom steps leading to the
water) did not come with a simple rubber seal that would render them
waterproof. After leaving Cape Town, as I surfed down waves at 20+ knots,
then slowed abruptly as we hit the trough, water would shoot up the transom
steps, force its way under the hatch and pour into the aft locker/engine
compartment (As the 48 has a foreshortened transom, this may not be an issue
on the 50). We had managed somehow, to turn off the bilge pumps at the main
switch board and when we discovered the problem, the starboard engine was
submerged up to the height of the bulkhead immediately front of it. Duncan
claimed that the problem was caused by the weight of my oversized dinghy and
declined to accept any design culpability. The problem was solved by a
simple rubber seal on the hatch. Also, and more importantly, I installed
bilge pump monitors at the helm with lights that confirm they are turned on
and second lights that light up when the float switch trips them into
action. That way, when you see that a particular bilge is coming on
repeatedly, you can check for the problem before it becomes serious.

4. In rough and stormy weather, I often had water back up through the
exhaust and into the cylinder heads of the leeward engine. In fairness to
Duncan, this is a common problem on many boats of all designs and people on
the water address it in numerous different ways. On my St Francis 48, the
problem was caused by a combination of issues. First there was no
significant loop in the exhaust line inboard of the through-hull for the
exhaust. I pointed this out to Duncan when I took delivery and he assured
me that it was no problem. In Trinidad, I installed a significant loop as
high as possible. That reduced the incidence of the problem significantly,
but water continued to back up through the exhaust and into the cylinder
heads on occasion. As a stop gap, I clamped a hose to the outlet of the
baffle box and ran it to the access hatch in the aft cabin. At that end of
the hatch, I attached a valve fitting that I would leave open while sailing
which would allow all the water coming into the baffle box to drain into the
bilge and be pumped out. It was a pain in the neck solution as I had to
remember to close the valve before turning on the engine. On returning to
the factory, I had Duncan install Check valves in the exhaust line just
inside the through hull and I had him place the siphon valve in the aft
cabin locker which is so high that I believe it will be impossible for the
problem to repeat itself. Duncan declined any responsibility for these
problems and again, pointed at the weight of my oversized dinghy, and I bore
the cost of all these changes.

B. Other Problems:
For repairs that were more contentious, I found the greatest satisfaction on
completing the circle and returning the boat to the factory.

1. My Lewmar hatches had crazed. Lewmar insisted that the factory must
have damaged them with chemicals and Duncan denied this. On the water,
neither could be disproved. At the factory, Lewmar agreed to replace not
just the crazed inserts, but every entire hatch. Duncan provided the labor
free.

2. Below the bottom paint, there are two layers - a gel coat sealer (grey)
and a base bottom paint primer (white). During my travels, they began to
separate in small flakes. International paint insisted that there must have
been dust between the layers, which Duncan denied. At the factory, I was
able to get them together and agree that it was not my problem.
International supplied the paint and Duncan provided the labor to sand off
all the old coats and apply 5 new coats (1, gel coat sealer, 1 primer, & 3
bottom paint layers).

3. My galley counter top developed a hairline crack an inch or two to the
left of my stove top (galley down). Duncan asked me if we had used the
counter top to stand on, which was a silly question. He did not replace the
counter top, which I thought would be the reasonable thing to do, but,
instead, repaired the crack with matching filler. It is still visible, but
not overtly offensive.

4. Duncan did make good on a number of other cosmetic failures at the
factory, but, based on all our prior dealings, I doubt I would have been
able to collect from him the cost of repairs performed at another location.
Also, there were other smaller design flaws that he declined responsibility
for: eg the air vent for my washer dryer allows water to back into it. At
the factory, Duncan installed a valve at the through hull that can be closed
while under way, at my expense.

In short, I was always able to reach Duncan easily. Just pick up a phone
and call the factory. However, Duncan's approach to failures is not what
we, in America, would consider a great or complete response. I like Duncan,
but I think he does his great boat and the reputation of the quality of his
work a disservice by erring on under-performing on what are clearly warranty
issues. On the other hand, the boat sails better than anything else on the
water and, at least when I bought mine, it was the biggest bang for the
buck, by far. My advice to Duncan would be to set aside a warranty reserve
(even if it means increasing the price of the boat) that would allow him to
provide a level of support that would have us all singing his praises. The
greatest recommendation I heard was from the owner of an Admiral 38 cat
(also made in SA) who sent the builder a list of issues he had with the boat
after his first ocean crossing and received a letter of apology and a
warranty check from the builder that more than covered the cost of repairs.


All the best,
Derek
Safari (StF 48)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bamboo [mailto:chesnes...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:07 AM
To: Saint Francis Owners Group
Subject: [Saint Francis OG] Re: Warranty on St Francis Catamarans

[Derek Morrison]

Upon further reflection, I feel compelled to balance what warranty
disagreements I had with Duncan with a few other items:
1. I love the boat. It is a quality built machine that is a joy to sail.
2. Duncan has always been easy to reach, responsive to my needs and a
personable guy to work with.
3. My warranty differences with Duncan did not amount to significant dollar
amounts, and were based on my non-legal understanding of what a warranty
should represent - an understanding based on my experiences with other big
ticket items in the US. At the time, I did not press the issues with
Duncan, as the dollar amounts were not significant, and I do not know if my
differences have support in law in SA - and it may well be that they don't.
Perhaps the American system simply creates expectations that are at odds
with those in South Africa. Perhaps I am just an unreasonable SOB at times,
but there were times when I just felt like I was being short changed in
manner inconsistent with what I would expect from a world class boat
builder. Having said all that, my overall experience with Duncan and his
boat have been great. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

[TwilightRodeo]

I have the boat show boat ( 2009) Artemas.
A few issues have come up. The battery switch boke - cable too tight.
and a fiberglass strip around the port saildrive peeled off.
I contacted St Francis and they simply said when I had it hauled next
send them the bill for the repair.
On smaller items they said they could send me a replacement. As with
any boat - even US built - repairs
are never needed in a convenient place so I just replace them - very
trivial in the scheme of things. I believe St Francis
will stand behind their boats and do the right thing should a major
repair be necessary.

[Randy]

This has been a constructive thread, I am sure others appreciate the
posts and the even handed representations. When you are in the middle
of nowhere and something on your fairly new million dollar yacht
breaks, it can create strong emotions (at least for me). That said I
think Derek makes a great point. The SF50 sails like stink, is the
best cat design I have ever run across and is offered at a very
reasonable price point. You can buy an Oyster 49 for 1.6 million USD
and they will air lift someone to Namonuito atoll to install a broken
fitting, or you can save half a million and do it yourself on a Saint
Francis (not to mention: getting there in half the time, and in twice
the comfort).

I have had a blend of experiences with the factory. In important
issues they have stood behind their boat. However, unlike Derek, I
have found support to be more challenging to marshal. A couple
anecdotes:

- I emailed a request for help with a broken traveler while crossing
the pacific and got a first response (which was that they would look
into it) a week after I had already arrived in Niue and received
replacements from the great folks at NZ Spars and Rigging. (Carry a
spare of the plastic end caps for that Lewmar car, the caps
deteriorate in the sun and the Torlon bearings go bouncing around your
deck). I think the factory was willing to help, just not responsive
enough to do so.

- I had several issues with the boat on delivery (small but important
to us, and a little help would have saved us a lot of time and money).
We were at Lauderdale Marine Center and I knew it was the last place
that high quality haul-out would be available for years, so I just
fixed everything without waiting for the factory's approval. They
split the bill with me which I felt was minimal but reasonable.
Technically they didn't owe me a cent because I didn't clear the
obligations with them first. Later, we sailed to Exuma to see George
(the North American rep) in person and he outright ignored us. I had
to corner him to get him to come look at some of the items I wanted to
get help with. In the end he did come by, but the experience was
adversarial rather than supportive, though in fairness he did give me
some advice on shroud tensioning.

As Greg notes we were new to the boat and its complex marine systems,
someone with more experience would have had less trouble. Still it
would have felt better to have had someone who was responsive, willing
to help, whether or not responsibility for issues was to be claimed,
and it would have been simple to save us a lot of time and money. For
purchases like this a certain level of service is implied in the USA,
and it may not be so in SA as Derek mentions. I have heard similar
complaints about every manufacturer in the business (most far worse)
with the possible exceptions of the mono hulls made by the Sweeds,
Morris and Oyster. No catamaran manufacturers come to mind in the
context of great service other than perhaps Manta and PDQ, who are
both out of business (tells you something about the margin these folks
have to invest in yacht service).

We had one big ticket issue with our boat. The bow where the cross
beam attaches was showing cracks in the gel coat. Every yard will tell
you this is a serious problem of course because they want to bilk you
for the $5,000 to repair it (they see a new 50' cat and salivate). In
our case we inspected the matter thoroughly and decided in
collaboration with Duncan and some trusted third parties that the area
might be ok but should be reinforced for safety. We did the job
ourselves with the help of two great layup guys that ran their own
show in Grenada. Duncan paid for the entire job, even if we did do it
on the cheap. During this process (and this is my number one tip for
others) I worked with Duncan directly using his personal cell phone.
Other means of communication produce drastically inferior results.

I would say that any business in a tough market is going to give push
back to those making claims on their capital. If you know what you're
doing you can avoid the small things (voltage drops over breakers that
make your inverter charger not work, etc...), handle the medium things
yourself cheaply (gasket the lazarettes [this is not a huge issue on
the 50 as Derek mentions but a little salt water will toast your
folding bike], etc...), and if you document the issues well and deal
directly with Duncan, my experience is that he will stand behind more
sizable structural repairs. Like Derek, we love our boat and other
than the reinforced bows she has sailed half way around the planet in
a variety of conditions with no structural problems and we have yet to
run across a cat we would rather own, by a long shot. If SF hired a
crew of a couple folks (Just Catamarans in Fort Lauderdale come to
mind) that really know service, even if just to man the email and
phones, they could be the Oyster of catamarans.

Caveats: Every 48 owner I have talked to has lost their rudders (both)
and had them replaced by the factory on similar terms to Derek's, and
all seem solid post repair. Also our hull (SF50 #3) is the last Saint
Francis to be completely hand laid up with isophtalic polyester. The
newer boats are lighter and stronger, being built with infusion and
vinylester. The infusion process is more tricky and sensitive,
requiring carefully controlled implementation and I cannot comment on
the structure of the new boats as I don't own one.

If you are interested in nitty gritty you can find out about every
single issue we had with our boat (self inflicted or otherwise) on our
sailblog.

Fair winds,
Randy & Hideko
s/v Swingin' on a Star
SF50 Hull #3

[Paul Burgess]

Hi everyone
We are hull 11 SF 50 Suliere which splashed last week and are here in
St Francis working through the snag list on the boat and are pleased
with the way things are going.

Before we chose the St francis we worked through every blog and sort
advice from owners and it was the positive feedback that helped us
choose SF.

The key questions that Bill is making here are concerned with
1. what problems have been experienced
2. How were the problems handled?
3. Who (fromSt Francis) did you deal with?

As we all know St Francis is a small set up headed by Duncan who owns
the company and in dealing with him you are dealing with the decision
maker,so as regards WHO, the answer has to be Duncan and I know Bill
has his mobile number and uses it so surely that has to be the best
person to contact.

The experiences on all I have read to date does leave SF as losing
some points on email responses in the past. My experience to date has
been same hour answers from Duncan Stevenson but as Randy has written
many times the best route for decisions is directly to Duncan by his
mobile phone.

It seems that the biggest historical problem were the rudders which
were honoured under warranty.


It also seems that most, if not all owners. love their boats and would
not part with them.

What i do not understand is what problems Bill has that are not being
resolved because that is the implication here and surely just as Bill
has asked others for detail of their problems to share, it would also
be good if Bill could share his problems for us all to learn from?

I have a selfish interest because I have tried to learn from every
SF50 and 48 to date so as to ensure my own boat can avoid as many
problems as is possible. Randy's blog was a great source of info on
such problems that I ensured were avoided with hull 11. I also hope
that hull 12 is better than hull 11 and the progress is
constant ...... so Bill what is the problem? Please share it with us
so we can learn from it.

Safe Sailing
Paul

[Bamboo]

First, I would like to thank all who have contributed to this
discussion, as I do believe it is constructive and helpful, not only
to all of us who currently own St Francis Cats but also to future
buyers and builders. Our contract clearly states, in short, that the
builder will be responsible for any defects in material and
workmanship for 36 months, as long as the builder is notified within
14 days by e-mail or fax. The contract also states that "the builder
will make good the defect itself or employ any other competent person,
company or firm to do so, on its behalf".
On the whole we are quite satisfied with ‘Bamboo’, and we do
understand that our build was complicated by so many ‘1st’s’, and we
still think the SF50 is the prettiest catamaran on the sea and the
best sailing catamaran. In building such a complex catamaran there
are bound to be material defects and installation mistakes. Some of
these do not show themselves for a period of time, hence a warranty.
It then becomes most important how the company responsibly, fairly and
expeditiously handles an owner’s claim.
We were developing a punch list of mostly small items that needed to
be repaired or installed differently on our long crossing from Cape
Town to Trinidad. Our punch list suddenly changed in Ascension Island
when I put the engines in reverse and backed down rather hard. The
port propeller shaft backed right out of the coupling. I should
mention we have a straight shaft drive system on Bamboo. Luckily the
zinc kept the shaft from coming out too far to have the propeller hit
the rudder. Initial inspection determined that there was no keyway,
pin or grub screw holding the shaft into the coupling. The coupling
was designed by St. Francis Marine with a compression fit only. This
now went to the top of our punch list and needed to be repaired
immediately upon our arrival in Trinidad. This priority attention was
important before a serious situation arose that I could not use
reverse power. In Duncan’s first email he accepted responsibility for
the repair and made some suggestions to its repair. To prevent a
haul out Duncan wanted the machinist to hand drill a pin through the
shaft. The machinist would not do this and said the only way was to
install a keyway grub screws. Of course this would require haul out.
After 13 days of emails and phone calls Duncan finally agreed with the
machinist. Money transfers took longer than I wished, another 8 days,
but I am now on the hard getting the shafts repaired. The first
warranty issue was a struggle, but Kudos to Duncan for coming through.
The disappointment comes with what seemed a clear defect in design
with a potentially disastrous outcome was such a struggle to get
corrected. I will now begin sending Duncan our punch list with much
smaller items and let you know how this turns out. I will list the
warranty claims outcome and the list on this site.

Bill & Roxanne Chesnes
s/v Bamboo
Bam...@gmn-usa.com

[Derek Morrison]

I understand that the later StF 50's have the primary winches inside the
cockpit. I have been thinking of making this adjustment on my 48 and would
like some feedback from those of you who have this set up. How well does it
work and what you would do differently.

Please let me know

All the best,
Derek Morrison
StF48

[Paul Burgess]

Hi
I have both primary winches inside the new cabin and at an angle. All
operations including raising and lowering of the mainsail are carried
out within the cockpit using the Leisure Furl in boom reefing system.

We are only at the trial stage but it all seems to work fine.I will
post some images of it on the Multihulls4us SF Forum later today.

Here are some images of the launch
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1692

Here is an image of the inside of the cockpit.
It is bou hal way down page 2 of the thread.
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1637&page=2


Paul & Lesley
Hull 11 Suliere

[Paul Burgess]

HI
Here is a direct link to the image of the cockpit
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1429&d=1259438350

Cheers

Paul & Lesley
Hull 11 Suliere

On 9 Dec 2009, at 00:02, Derek Morrison wrote:

[Paul Burgess]

Hi All
Suliere, the latest SF50 is now in the water At Sta Francis with still
a lot of work to do but I have posted almost 30 images
on the SF Forum here
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1692

I have also shot the winch arrangement as this pertains to another
discussion.

Safe Sailing
Paul & Lesley

[Derek Morrison]

Thanks

All the best,
Derek

[Bamboo]

Randy,
This has been a very enlightening discussion hopefully for all
involved parties. I appreciate the opportunity you've given us all to
really share information and search for solutions. I'm curious why
and how the 'Discussion' title got changed from "Warranty on St
Francis Catamarans' to 'Primary winches'? That seems like an entirely
different discussion and I'd really like to see more input and
discussion from relatively new owners as to warranty issues. Is it
possible to keep the discussion open for a longer period of time?
Thank you again...Hope to see you soon!
Roxanne & Bill
s/v Bamboo Hull #10

[Bamboo]

Just wanted to bring the subject back to Warranty Issues for member
convenience.

> > SF50 Hull #3- Hide quoted text -