Re: [sage-devel] Re: Status of special functions in Sage

[Tom Boothby]

Before lodging this complaint, did you comsume

[ ] red wine
[ ] white wine
[ ] US
[ ] France
[ ] Italy
[ ] Antarctica

On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 5:24 PM, rjf <fat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:36:02 PM UTC-7, Eviatar wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I made a table of the status of special functions in Sage, based on the
>> one in the Digital Library of Mathematical Functions. I thought it would be
>> of interest to some people here. It also links to pending patches
>> implementing or making improvements to functions in Sage.
>>
>> Eviatar
>
>
> It is kind of naive, in a discussion relevant to Sage, to talk about
> mathematical functions being
> "implemented" as a checklist. Compare DLMF to (say) the Wolfram functions
> web site.
>
> When you say F is "implemented", does that mean numerical evaluation for
> double-precision float arguments? How about arbitrary precision? How about
> integration of F(x) and expressions involving it? How about derivatives?
> How about addition formulas and relations with other functions?
>
> Its sort of like comparing geographical locations and having a checklist:
>
> US France Italy Antarctica
> red wine x x x 0
> white wine x x x 0
>
>
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[William Stein]

And did you actually look at the linked patch?

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[Richard Fateman]

On 9/10/2013 7:04 PM, William Stein wrote:

And did you actually look at the linked patch?

Not when I wrote that note.

I looked at http://www.phas.ubc.ca/~eviatarb/?e=11

If this is what dlmf is supposed to be upgraded to include, that's what I was complaining about.


On your prompting, I looked at, for example,
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/2516

which indeed comments on some symbolic manipulation. It looks like some was done 3 years ago, and
is in various stages of incompletion.  Perhaps characterization of what you can do is in order, rather
than requiring searching through patches and finding out if you include (say) differentiation,
simplification  (if so, how much), arbitrary precision evaluation, interaction between simplification and assumptions,
solve, etc.

[William Stein]

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:13 AM, rjf <fat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems to me that to address complex analysis, essential to special
> functions, it
> is inadequate to essentially start with algebra and try to make it up by
> patch upon patch.
>
> But go ahead. Sage would not be the first to try it. Probably not even the
> 4th.

Have *YOU* ever tried and succeeded at "addressing complex analysis"
successfully (in the sense that you mean)?
Or are you just saying: "this shit is hard. I don't have a clue. good luck."

> I mentioned the Wolfram functions web site not as a solution to the problem,
> but
> as an indication of what is included as part of the problem .
>
> RJF

>
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--

William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

[Richard Fateman]

On 9/11/2013 10:39 AM, William Stein wrote:

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:13 AM, rjf <fat...@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems to me that  to address complex analysis, essential to special
functions, it
is inadequate to essentially start with algebra and try to make it up by
patch upon patch.

But go ahead.  Sage would not be the first to try it.  Probably not even the
4th.

Have *YOU* ever tried and succeeded at "addressing complex analysis"
successfully (in the sense that you mean)?

I've written some papers on some aspect of this problem.  The fact that you appear to
be unaware of them suggests that you have not done your homework.  You could
start by using Google  on   { fateman complex analysis}.  Or
maybe look at the interesting volumes by Henrici on applied and computational complex
analysis.
<oxygen>
I know it is so hard to do searches on such  topics when you can instead ask an authority for
an opinion and then be rude about it.
</oxygen>

I am not aware of anyone who has successfully addressed this problem in a computer algebra
system, though some people have thrown resources at it.

Some people do not apparently even recognize that there is a problem and think
there are just the bugs here and there that have to be patched. 

Or are you just saying: "this shit is hard. I don't have a clue.  good luck."

No, what I was saying was more like "I think you don't have a clue. Good luck."