Sage 9.2 does not works in macos Big Sur

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Juan Luis Varona

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Nov 1, 2020, 5:52:59 PM11/1/20
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(Sorry for my bad English)

I have downloaded sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg and it does not work in macos Big Sur (that is, macos 11, that it is now yet in beta, but that it will be released in a couple of weeks). I suppose that the same will happens with sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.dmg

The problem is that it cannot make (I'm not sure if this is the correct cord) python3, because some packages such as ssl does not exits. The suggestion of using sage -f python3 again provides an error.

However, sage-9.1-py2-OSX_10.11.6-x86_64.app.dmg (that uses python2) works correctly.

It is true that macos Big Sur is yet in beta stage, but it will be released very soon, and now sold macs will become with this system.

Till the problem is solved, I suggest to include, in the download pages
(or similar) a note about what to use with macos Big Sur. 

(Of course, this is a different problem of the use of sagemath in the fortcoming macs with arm chips, but it is a previuos step)

Yours,

Juan Luis Varona

Matthias Koeppe

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Nov 1, 2020, 9:47:49 PM11/1/20
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On Sunday, November 1, 2020 at 2:52:59 PM UTC-8, Juan Luis Varona wrote:
I have downloaded sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg and it does not work in macos Big Sur [...]

macOS Big Sur is not supported yet. https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30651 tracks the development. Any help is welcome.

Juan Luis Varona

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Nov 5, 2020, 7:35:05 PM11/5/20
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But, actually, it seems that macos Big Sur is not the problem.
I have not noticed it before, but  sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg does not work in macos 10.15.7. !!!!!!

I do not understand how a sage for macos 10.15.7 that does not works on macos 10.15.7 has been released. Perhaps some additional software installed in the mac where this version were checked?

The problem seem to be python3, the same than in my previous message (I copy and paste from my try in macos 10.15.7):
***********
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named '_ssl'
┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│ SageMath version 9.2, Release Date: 2020-10-24                     │
│ Using Python 3.8.5. Type "help()" for help.                        │
└────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
Please wait while the Sage Jupyter Notebook server starts...

The Jupyter notebook requires ssl, even if you do not use
https. Install the openssl development packages in your system and
then rebuild Python (sage -f python3).
***********

The suggestion sage -f python3 again gives an error, after a very long quantity of messages in the terminal .

(I'm not an expert, I do not know how to install the openssl development packages in my system as, I suppose, most sagemath users.)

Yours,

Juan Luis Varona

kcrisman

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Nov 5, 2020, 10:51:05 PM11/5/20
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I have not noticed it before, but  sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg does not work in macos 10.15.7. !!!!!!

I do not understand how a sage for macos 10.15.7 that does not works on macos 10.15.7 has been released.


Unfortunately I don't think we check many of the binaries.  They are "just produced"; actually checking they all work can't be automated and can be pretty time-consuming (waiting for unpacking etc.).  Thank you for your report, the SSL problems on Mac have been legendary.

kcrisman

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Nov 5, 2020, 10:51:43 PM11/5/20
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On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 10:51:05 PM UTC-5, kcrisman wrote:

I have not noticed it before, but  sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg does not work in macos 10.15.7. !!!!!!

I do not understand how a sage for macos 10.15.7 that does not works on macos 10.15.7 has been released.


Unfortunately I don't think we check many of the binaries.  They are "just produced"; actually checking they all work can't be automated and can be pretty time-consuming (waiting for unpacking etc.

And actually having the right hardware!  For the checkers, that is, who might not be the same as the producers, if that makes sense.

John H Palmieri

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Nov 6, 2020, 12:32:51 PM11/6/20
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I don't think it's a Python problem, but rather a Jupyter problem. It used to be the case, and perhaps still is, that we could not distribute ssl because of licensing issues, so when we build our own Python, it may have broken ssl support. This has been true for a long time, so I think that something changed in a recent Jupyter upgrade to require ssl when connecting.

Matthias Koeppe

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Nov 6, 2020, 1:32:32 PM11/6/20
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On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 7:51:05 PM UTC-8, kcrisman wrote:

I have not noticed it before, but  sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg does not work in macos 10.15.7. !!!!!!

I do not understand how a sage for macos 10.15.7 that does not works on macos 10.15.7 has been released.


Unfortunately I don't think we check many of the binaries.  They are "just produced"; actually checking they all work can't be automated and can be pretty time-consuming (waiting for unpacking etc.).  

As discussed most recently in https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29710, we should start by eliminating the distribution of the mac app.

Automated testing of binary distributions is discussed in https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29060 - someone needs to take the lead on this.


Matthias Koeppe

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Nov 6, 2020, 1:35:00 PM11/6/20
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On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:32:51 AM UTC-8, John H Palmieri wrote:
I don't think it's a Python problem, but rather a Jupyter problem. It used to be the case, and perhaps still is,

Yes, still is - we are waiting for the OpenSSL 3.0 release, which will solve this issue - see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29555
 
that we could not distribute ssl because of licensing issues, so when we build our own Python, it may have broken ssl support. This has been true for a long time, so I think that something changed in a recent Jupyter upgrade to require ssl when connecting.

That's right, it was the tornado upgrade - see https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30556
 

kcrisman

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Nov 6, 2020, 3:50:01 PM11/6/20
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On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 1:32:32 PM UTC-5, Matthias Koeppe wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 7:51:05 PM UTC-8, kcrisman wrote:

I have not noticed it before, but  sage-9.2-OSX_10.15.7-x86_64.app.dmg does not work in macos 10.15.7. !!!!!!

I do not understand how a sage for macos 10.15.7 that does not works on macos 10.15.7 has been released.


Unfortunately I don't think we check many of the binaries.  They are "just produced"; actually checking they all work can't be automated and can be pretty time-consuming (waiting for unpacking etc.).  

As discussed most recently in https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/29710, we should start by eliminating the distribution of the mac app.


Totally orthogonal to what the user was reporting, and I just want to make that VERY clear to anyone reading this later when the inevitable complaints about the dropping of the app come.  

"Viable open source competitor" in the mission statement should include this type of functionality.  That said, I know that the forces against actually having user-friendly interfaces for newbies that don't rely on having an internet connection are too big. (I do not consider command line friendly to true newcomers.)  Primarily the lack of any interested developers having experience/interest in writing more Mac GUI code to update :-(  Ideally fixing this would be a GSOC project, but who would the mentor be?  (I do not have said expertise, unfortunately.)

Dima Pasechnik

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Nov 6, 2020, 3:53:15 PM11/6/20
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we looked for students to work on mac app in GSoC, to no avail.

basically, IMHO, mac app is like sagenb, old technology that should be rewritten from scratch.



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Matthias Koeppe

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Nov 6, 2020, 4:50:04 PM11/6/20
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On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 12:50:01 PM UTC-8, kcrisman wrote:
"Viable open source competitor" in the mission statement should include this type of functionality.  That said, I know that the forces against actually having user-friendly interfaces for newbies that don't rely on having an internet connection are too big.

The best routes, in my opinion, are to 

1) use what the Jupyter community uses - see for example https://gist.github.com/xiaolai/697ec3ea1607994440abf574c0f017e5

2) improve support and provide documentation for using Sage with major user-friendly development environments such as Anaconda or vscode. https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30500




Dima Pasechnik

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Nov 7, 2020, 3:20:14 AM11/7/20
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On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 9:50 PM Matthias Koeppe <matthia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 12:50:01 PM UTC-8, kcrisman wrote:
>>
>> "Viable open source competitor" in the mission statement should include this type of functionality. That said, I know that the forces against actually having user-friendly interfaces for newbies that don't rely on having an internet connection are too big.
>
>
> The best routes, in my opinion, are to
>
> 1) use what the Jupyter community uses - see for example https://gist.github.com/xiaolai/697ec3ea1607994440abf574c0f017e5

this looks quite interesting. Can something like this be made to work
for Sage? Wrapping the whole thing into one script to run
looks doable...

>
> 2) improve support and provide documentation for using Sage with major user-friendly development environments such as Anaconda or vscode. https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30500
>
>
>
>
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Jean-Pierre Flori

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Nov 7, 2020, 11:58:53 AM11/7/20
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I found the Mac app quite useful now I use Mac and don't have the time to build Sage anymore :(
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