New Trac Server

[R. Andrew Ohana]

Hey Everyone,

Sometime in the next couple weeks, we will be moving our trac installation over to a dedicated VM. You can currently access the instance at trac.tangentspace.org -- although note that the database is a snapshot from Sunday evening, so don't do any real development there, since it will all be dropped. There are some (non-insignificant) changes, so please make sure that everything you care about is still there and not broken.

Changes from current trac.sagemath.org:

1) update to Trac-1.1.2dev, because of

2) a few new plugins to handle new git workflow (topic for another post)

3) new configuration, written from a new clean initialization (our trac configuration was full of a lot of cruft from years of upgrades, and changes in how trac handles things)
4) database has been stripped of a ridiculous amount of crap (about half of the dump) -- side affect: the users admin panel has a reasonable load time
5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated trac theme

--

Andrew

[John H Palmieri]

Speaking of color schemes: I've heard comments that the red and green colors used when displaying patches are not ideal for color-blind users. Should we change this?

--
John

[John Cremona]

On 22 April 2013 20:20, John H Palmieri <jhpalm...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> 5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated
>> trac theme
>
>
> Speaking of color schemes: I've heard comments that the red and green colors
> used when displaying patches are not ideal for color-blind users. Should we
> change this?

Thank you John! I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.

John


>
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>
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[Maarten Derickx]

The account creation page only takes seconds to load instead minutes. So this new server makes me very happy.

[Justin C. Walker]

On Apr 22, 2013, at 13:16 , Maarten Derickx <m.derick...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The account creation page only takes seconds to load instead minutes. So this new server makes me very happy.

A question (well, two) occurs to me: are new accounts needed? Will new accounts made during testing survive the transition to "official"?

Thanks!

Justin

--
Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large
Institute for the Absorption of Federal Funds
--------
If you're not confused,
You're not paying attention
--------

[R. Andrew Ohana]

If we are going to change the colors for diffs, please give suggestions. Also, there is two shades of a third color that will be used once we switch to git, see http://trac.tangentspace.org/changeset/3b459a4ef46068ed1b62acd5bfb81b721f87bfaa/.

Everything at trac.tangentspace.org will be tossed when we make the actual switch. All users on the current trac server (at the time of the switch) will be preserved.

--

Andrew

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/22/2013 10:57 PM, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
> If we are going to change the colors for diffs, please give suggestions.
> Also, there is two shades of a third color that will be used once we
> switch to git, see
> http://trac.tangentspace.org/changeset/3b459a4ef46068ed1b62acd5bfb81b721f87bfaa/.

And where on this page are these two shades of a third color? Anyway, I
*do* have slight problems seeing the difference between red and green on
that page, I would propose making the red slightly darker.

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/22/2013 09:32 PM, John Cremona wrote:
> I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
> guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.

Me too by the way.

[John H Palmieri]

On Monday, April 22, 2013 2:08:09 PM UTC-7, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:

On 04/22/2013 10:57 PM, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
> If we are going to change the colors for diffs, please give suggestions.
> Also, there is two shades of a third color that will be used once we
> switch to git, see
> http://trac.tangentspace.org/changeset/3b459a4ef46068ed1b62acd5bfb81b721f87bfaa/.

And where on this page are these two shades of a third color?

My guess: in the little box in the upper right, if you click to view differences "side by side" and then "update", you will see a new color in use. Andrew, is that the one you meant?

--
John

[John Cremona]

Any chance of user configurable colour schemes?

John

[William Stein]

Bikeshedding? :-)

[P Purkayastha]

On 04/23/2013 03:32 AM, John Cremona wrote:
> On 22 April 2013 20:20, John H Palmieri <jhpalm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> 5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated
>>> trac theme
>>
>>
>> Speaking of color schemes: I've heard comments that the red and green colors
>> used when displaying patches are not ideal for color-blind users. Should we
>> change this?
>
> Thank you John! I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
> guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.
>
> John

Does this webpage accurately depict what you see?
http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php

You can check http://trac.tangentspace.org/ticket/11669 which contains
green, red and blue colors. According to this simulation, it is not
possible to differentiate between green, red and blue. They all appear
as yellowish-brown, with the green appearing a bit brighter than the red.

[John Cremona]

On 23 April 2013 08:41, P Purkayastha <ppu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/23/2013 03:32 AM, John Cremona wrote:
>>
>> On 22 April 2013 20:20, John H Palmieri <jhpalm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> 5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated
>>>> trac theme
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of color schemes: I've heard comments that the red and green
>>> colors
>>> used when displaying patches are not ideal for color-blind users. Should
>>> we
>>> change this?
>>
>>
>> Thank you John! I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
>> guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.
>>
>> John
>
>
> Does this webpage accurately depict what you see?
> http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php

That sounds like a logical tautology ;)

>
> You can check http://trac.tangentspace.org/ticket/11669 which contains
> green, red and blue colors. According to this simulation, it is not possible
> to differentiate between green, red and blue. They all appear as
> yellowish-brown, with the green appearing a bit brighter than the red.
>

I see the blue and green very clearly but cannot see any red. That is
normal for me: any red words "hidden" amongst a mass of black words
will not be noticed as different.

Sorry for the bikeshedding, but it is actually a problem -- I was just
correcting proofs of a paper using some fancy pdf markup where they
had made any small changes red, and I had to get a family member to go
through it with me to make sure I found them all. It's not as bac as
that on trac where there are whole blocks of colour.

[Harald Schilly]

On Monday, April 22, 2013 10:45:33 PM UTC+2, Justin C. Walker wrote:

A question (well, two) occurs to me: are new accounts needed?

I just made one, and an additional request is pending. So, please inform those who create trac accounts all the time if we should halt  this for a day or so. 

Also, how about the integration with the wiki? That was handcoded by mike hansen (if i remember correctly) to prevent the excessive spamming. Requests for modifying the wiki also end up as trac account requests. I hope you take care of that, too!

Harald

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/23/2013 09:41 AM, P Purkayastha wrote:
> Does this webpage accurately depict what you see?
> http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php

That's a strange question indeed. How can we tell how non-colourblind
people see that page?

I think a good test page with different colours is
http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11337

[Harald Schilly]

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jeroen Demeyer <jdem...@cage.ugent.be> wrote:
> I think a good test page with different colours is
> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11337

Yes, John&co. should tell us how they see "#13540" … it's a dark red
tone, so it will be hidden between the darker blue ones. If the chosen
blue is brighter, they might spot it easily.

H

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/23/2013 11:31 AM, Harald Schilly wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jeroen Demeyer <jdem...@cage.ugent.be> wrote:
>> I think a good test page with different colours is
>> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11337
>

> Yes, John&co. should tell us how they see "#13540" � it's a dark red

> tone, so it will be hidden between the darker blue ones. If the chosen
> blue is brighter, they might spot it easily.

I personally have no problems with the red. I do find the orange and
green quite similar, maybe I would make the green slightly darker. John,
what do you say?

[John Cremona]

I can easily see the red #13540 between two blue ones. For some
reason red hides in black but not in blue.

I also see a couple of orange numbers 14276, 14375. The contrast
between that and the green is not so easy -- as Jeroen also finds.
Can we try a darker green?

John

>
> H

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/23/2013 11:36 AM, John Cremona wrote:

> I also see a couple of orange numbers 14276, 14375. The contrast
> between that and the green is not so easy -- as Jeroen also finds.
> Can we try a darker green?

OK, I'll make the change.

[P Purkayastha]

On 04/23/2013 05:27 PM, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
> On 04/23/2013 09:41 AM, P Purkayastha wrote:
>> Does this webpage accurately depict what you see?
>> http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php
> That's a strange question indeed. How can we tell how non-colourblind
> people see that page?

Sorry, I wasn't thinking properly. Indeed, the page is useful only for
non-colorblind people to see a simulation of what colorblind people see.

[Volker Braun]

If its important to be able to distinguish the ticket numbers (and I'm not quite sure that it adds that much information, you can always use mouse-over to see the status and title) then we should make one of them inverted (with text background color). 

For diffs I agree that red-green is tricky, but at the same time its the only combination that is intuitively clear what additions / deletions are. If you are really totally color blind (ok, extremely rare) then you should probably be using the side-by-side diffs instead of color-annotated ones. 

[P Purkayastha]

On 04/23/2013 07:55 PM, Volker Braun wrote:
> If its important to be able to distinguish the ticket numbers (and I'm
> not quite sure that it adds that much information, you can always use
> mouse-over to see the status and title) then we should make one of them
> inverted (with text background color).

I agree. How about making positively reviewed ticket numbers green and
the red ones actually light red background with black foreground?

[kcrisman]

On Apr 23, 7:55 am, Volker Braun <vbraun.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If its important to be able to distinguish the ticket numbers (and I'm not
> quite sure that it adds that much information, you can always use
> mouse-over to see the status and title) then we should make one of them
> inverted (with text background color).
>

For what it's worth, I really like having the tickets distinguished by
positive review and not, so that when there is a ticket with a lot of
dependencies (or tickets mentioned in comments) I don't go about
clicking them all. The mouseover takes long enough that I tend only
to do that in preview, to check I've typed in a number correctly ;-)

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 04/23/2013 11:36 AM, John Cremona wrote:

> I also see a couple of orange numbers 14276, 14375. The contrast
> between that and the green is not so easy -- as Jeroen also finds.
> Can we try a darker green?

I made some minor adjustments to the colour scheme. Please try again
http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/11337

[leif]

John Cremona wrote:
> Any chance of user configurable colour schemes?

Yes, please.

There's already Trac->Preferences->Syntax Highlighting where one can
choose different color schemes; haven't tried that though, and can't
tell whether it's sufficient.


-leif

> On 22 April 2013 22:10, Jeroen Demeyer <jdem...@cage.ugent.be> wrote:
>> On 04/22/2013 09:32 PM, John Cremona wrote:
>>>
>>> I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
>>> guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.
>>
>> Me too by the way.

--

() The ASCII Ribbon Campaign
/\ Help Cure HTML E-Mail

[Jason Grout]

On 4/23/13 2:41 AM, P Purkayastha wrote:
> On 04/23/2013 03:32 AM, John Cremona wrote:
>> On 22 April 2013 20:20, John H Palmieri <jhpalm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> 5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated
>>>> trac theme
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking of color schemes: I've heard comments that the red and green
>>> colors
>>> used when displaying patches are not ideal for color-blind users.
>>> Should we
>>> change this?
>>
>> Thank you John! I volunteer to be the official red-green colour-blind
>> guinea-pig if you point me to a suitable sample page.
>>
>> John
>
> Does this webpage accurately depict what you see?
> http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php

Robert Kern on the scipy mailing list a long time [1] ago mentioned
another tool for simulating color blindness for non-colorblind people:

http://colororacle.org/

There are probably lots of other such tools.

Thanks,

Jason


[1] http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-user/2008-March/015736.html

[John Cremona]

On 23 April 2013 17:04, Jason Grout <jason...@creativetrax.com> wrote:

>
> Robert Kern on the scipy mailing list a long time [1] ago mentioned another
> tool for simulating color blindness for non-colorblind people:
>
> http://colororacle.org/
>
> There are probably lots of other such tools.
>

Is there one which simulates the inverse? Then I could just upgrade my eyes.

John

> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
> [1] http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/scipy-user/2008-March/015736.html
>
>
>

[Keshav Kini]

Wait, weren't you the one who decided this color scheme during Sage Days
40.5 last year...? I definitely recall talking to you about trac's color
scheme...

-Keshav

[R. Andrew Ohana]

I just made one, and an additional request is pending. So, please inform those who create trac accounts all the time if we should halt  this for a day or so.

Yes, there will be notice since it will probably mean a few hours of downtime (it takes a while to dump and reload the trac database).

Also, how about the integration with the wiki? That was handcoded by mike hansen (if i remember correctly) to prevent the excessive spamming. Requests for modifying the wiki also end up as trac account requests. I hope you take care of that, too!

Yes, this will need to be figured out, since I don't think that the VM that we are placing trac onto should also contain the wiki. William, do you have thoughts on this?

--

Andrew

[Jeroen Demeyer]

Yes, that's true. Let's just say that now I optimized the color scheme
slightly.

[Harald Schilly]

On Wednesday, April 24, 2013 7:40:27 AM UTC+2, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:

Also, how about the integration with the wiki? That was handcoded by mike hansen (if i remember correctly) to prevent the excessive spamming. Requests for modifying the wiki also end up as trac account requests. I hope you take care of that, too!

Yes, this will need to be figured out, since I don't think that the VM that we are placing trac onto should also contain the wiki.

Mike told me, that the moinmoin authentication just reads trac's passwd file, which is at
/var/trac/sage_trac/conf/passwd

So, a simple scp entry in crontab running every minute would be a quick solution. (I don't know how secure it should be, but running that as a different user than trac's user would take care of that.)

H

[Maarten Derickx]

How are things progressing with the move?

Thanks Maarten

Le lundi 22 avril 2013 20:19:44 UTC+2, R. Andrew Ohana a écrit :

Hey Everyone,

Sometime in the next couple weeks, we will be moving our trac installation over to a dedicated VM. You can currently access the instance at trac.tangentspace.org -- although note that the database is a snapshot from Sunday evening, so don't do any real development there, since it will all be dropped. There are some (non-insignificant) changes, so please make sure that everything you care about is still there and not broken.

Changes from current trac.sagemath.org:

1) update to Trac-1.1.2dev, because of

2) a few new plugins to handle new git workflow (topic for another post)

3) new configuration, written from a new clean initialization (our trac configuration was full of a lot of cruft from years of upgrades, and changes in how trac handles things)
4) database has been stripped of a ridiculous amount of crap (about half of the dump) -- side affect: the users admin panel has a reasonable load time

5) Sage color scheme has been updated/fleshed out to match the updated trac theme

--

Andrew

[R. Andrew Ohana]

The duplicate ticket search plugin (which is the one that lists similarly summarized tickets when creating a new ticket) has a very annoying bug
that either requires fixing (which I haven't looked into yet) or disabling of the plugin. Other than that, I think the trac instance is ready.

There is also a gitolite server on the VM, which is setup for when we switch to git, and to which trac is tied, and that spontaneously became very broken for some reason that I have yet to determine.

Finally, I will have to setup a mail server, so trac can send us emails, but that should be quick.

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--

Andrew

[Harald Schilly]

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM, R. Andrew Ohana <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Other than that, I think the trac instance is ready.

what about the integration with the sagemath wiki? how have you solved
this? (but we should move that discussion to sagemath-admin …)

H