Closing the old Sage wiki

[Matthias Koeppe]

Let's get rid of the old Sage wiki (https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageWiki).

1) It excludes new and newish developers who do not have the required legacy trac account but log in to Trac using their GitHub accounts.

2) It has very little non-outdated content (see below) -- it reflects poorly on the project.

3) We already have another Wiki as part of the Trac server. https://trac.sagemath.org/wiki/WikiStart

Steps done:

a) I went through in the last few weeks and reviewed and then deleted many wildly outdated pages and pages that only duplicated information that is available in our manuals. https://wiki.sagemath.org/RecentChanges?max_days=90

b) I have migrated https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.6 and https://wiki.sagemath.org/patchbot (and subpages) to the Trac wiki.

To do:

c) Migrate some info to our documentation 

- see for example https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30500 on IDE & text editor configuration

d) Migrate the rest of the pages to the Trac wiki - https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33725 

- for example the archive of SageDays activities

[Adarsh Kishore]

Ok, so that means that majorly we would have only doc.sagemath.org and trac.sagemath.org right? wiki.sagemath.org would become a subdomain inside Trac.

Please correct if I got something wrong. 

Sincerely,

Adarsh

[Vincent Delecroix]

On the other hand, it was not clear to me that we would
keep trac forever (eg moving to gitlab or github was
mentioned several times). Migrating the wiki as you propose
will make it harder to leave trac.

1) If it is just a problem of "login with github", why can't we
provide github login to the wiki?

2) I don't understand why outdated content is a reason to move
the wiki. Just delete or update the content seems a more
reasonable option to me.

3) Regarding history : the trac wiki appeared *after* the
wiki.sagemath.org.

Unless there is a good reason to do so, let us not migrate the
original Sage wiki.

Vincent

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 9:42:58 AM UTC-7 vdelecroix wrote:

On the other hand, it was not clear to me that we would
keep trac forever (eg moving to gitlab or github was
mentioned several times). Migrating the wiki as you propose
will make it harder to leave trac.

No, it wouldn't make it harder because the Trac wiki already has pages that will have to be migrated too.

Consolidating it now into one wiki is good preparation for this migration.

 

1) If it is just a problem of "login with github", why can't we
provide github login to the wiki?

This has been a known problem for years, and nobody has worked on it.

3) Regarding history : the trac wiki appeared *after* the
wiki.sagemath.org.

This is irrelevant.

 

Unless there is a good reason to do so, let us not migrate the
original Sage wiki.

I gave the good reason: It excludes users and developers without legacy accounts.

(By the way, nobody is taking care of creating legacy accounts when requested.)

 

[julian...@fsfe.org]

Hi Vincent and Matthias,

I also think that we should migrate away from the moin moin wiki.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 6:42:58 PM UTC+2 vdelecroix wrote:

Migrating the wiki as you propose
will make it harder to leave trac.

I don't think that's true. Migrating the wiki elsewhere is trivial in comparison to migrating over everything else that's on trac. In particular, I am sure that any migration scripts that understand what's going on in a trac ticket can migrate wiki pages that are written with the same markup language.

 

1) If it is just a problem of "login with github", why can't we
provide github login to the wiki?

It's usually quite some work to make such logins work. I don't think anybody is terribly motivated to do such infrastructure work at the moment.

 

2) I don't understand why outdated content is a reason to move
the wiki. Just delete or update the content seems a more
reasonable option to me.

I struggled the other day to update some information because the wiki uses a different syntax than trac. I think that migrating makes it much easier to update the information on the wiki in the future.

 

Unless there is a good reason to do so, let us not migrate the original Sage wiki.

I am no fan of trac at all but I think it makes sense to consolidate our setup here.

julian

[Matthias Koeppe]

An update:

I have re-organized the front page of https://trac.sagemath.org/

and have migrated a number of development-related pages from

the old wiki - https://wiki.sagemath.org/RecentChanges

Help is welcome in migrating any remaining development-related

material from https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel to the Trac wiki.

In particular, there are many pages collecting information on the 

software landscape that could be consolidated and moved to the

Trac wiki.

https://wiki.sagemath.org/OSCAS

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareToIntegrate

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareSurveys

https://www.sagemath.org/links.html

https://wiki.sagemath.org/Upstream

[Kwankyu Lee]

There is this tool

https://trac-hacks.org/wiki/MoinToTracScript

I don't know if this still works. If so, then it would be a better strategy to move to trac first (using the script) and then consolidate.

[David Roe]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 2:19 AM Matthias Koeppe <matthia...@gmail.com> wrote:

An update:

I have re-organized the front page of https://trac.sagemath.org/

and have migrated a number of development-related pages from

the old wiki - https://wiki.sagemath.org/RecentChanges

Overall I like the changes, but here are some suggestions for changes (happy to do them myself if there's consensus)

* I'd vote for keeping the "custom query" link on the front page, since I think this is one of the better ways to look for tickets (since trac's search is pretty bad).

* "have become available recently and provide additional badges" is accurate right now, but we should maybe phrase it in a way that's still true if we don't edit the front page again for 10 years.  How about "became available in Sage 9.6 and provide additional badges?"

David

Help is welcome in migrating any remaining development-related

material from https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel to the Trac wiki.

In particular, there are many pages collecting information on the 

software landscape that could be consolidated and moved to the

Trac wiki.

https://wiki.sagemath.org/OSCAS

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareToIntegrate

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareSurveys

https://www.sagemath.org/links.html

https://wiki.sagemath.org/Upstream

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:45:19 AM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

Let's get rid of the old Sage wiki (https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageWiki).

1) It excludes new and newish developers who do not have the required legacy trac account but log in to Trac using their GitHub accounts.

2) It has very little non-outdated content (see below) -- it reflects poorly on the project.

3) We already have another Wiki as part of the Trac server. https://trac.sagemath.org/wiki/WikiStart

Steps done:

a) I went through in the last few weeks and reviewed and then deleted many wildly outdated pages and pages that only duplicated information that is available in our manuals. https://wiki.sagemath.org/RecentChanges?max_days=90

b) I have migrated https://wiki.sagemath.org/ReleaseTours/sage-9.6 and https://wiki.sagemath.org/patchbot (and subpages) to the Trac wiki.

To do:

c) Migrate some info to our documentation 

- see for example https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30500 on IDE & text editor configuration

d) Migrate the rest of the pages to the Trac wiki - https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33725 

- for example the archive of SageDays activities

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[Matthias Koeppe]

Thanks for the suggestions! I've made these changes.

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 11:19:54 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

In particular, there are many pages collecting information on the 

software landscape that could be consolidated and moved to the

Trac wiki.

https://wiki.sagemath.org/OSCAS

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareToIntegrate

https://wiki.sagemath.org/devel/SoftwareSurveys

https://www.sagemath.org/links.html

https://wiki.sagemath.org/Upstream

https://trac.sagemath.org/wiki/WikiStart#Surveyingthemathematicalsoftwarelandscape

 

[G. M.-S.]

Good work, Matthias!

Guillermo

[Matthias Koeppe]

An update:

I have migrated the list of external packages to https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageMathExternalPackages to the ticket https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31164; in the process of this, I have (superficially) reviewed most of the entries and split them between pip-installable / non-pip-installable / defunct packages. Help is very welcome in taking care of the remaining ones that have not been processed yet.

On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:45:19 AM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

[Matthias Koeppe]

typo: I have migrated the list of external packages *from* https://wiki.sagemath.org/SageMathExternalPackages to  https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/31164

[kcrisman]

Query: What is the final decision on these pages (not Trac wiki) vis-a-vis the vote to move development to GH?   I don't find at least some of that material on the sample GH wiki, e.g. https://wiki.sagemath.org/interact/ or https://wiki.sagemath.org/Workshops but I presume there is a plan.  Thanks for any info!

[Matthias Koeppe]

No decision has been made on this, but a plan is described in https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33725. Discussion & help is very welcome.

[kcrisman]

Thanks, that's very helpful.