Re: plotQt.c with Qt 4.3.2 + GUI for pari/gp

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William Stein

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Nov 12, 2007, 9:33:25 PM11/12/07
to Téragone, pari...@list.cr.yp.to, sage-...@googlegroups.com, ri...@math.uni-siegen.de
On Nov 13, 2007 1:35 AM, Téragone <tera...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm also working on a GUI for pari/gp. I started with mathGuide from which I
> removed the Python plugin

Wow, thanks for pointing out mathGuide, which I had never heard about before.
Since this is in English, I translation of the web page
http://www.math.uni-siegen.de/ring/mathGUIde
is here:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.math.uni-siegen.de%2Fring%2FmathGUIde%2Findex.html

It's interesting how that project is fairly similar to Sage
(http://sagemath.org)
in many ways. E.g., see this screenshot which looks very much like
the screen shot for mathGUIde:
http://sagemath.org/screen_shots/.html/sage-screenshot.png

>. I call gp in application mode, not in library
> mode.
> I use most of the code of gp.c and I redirect the output to a global
> string. Maybe not the best way, but it's easy to code and it work.

Interestingly the Sage GP GUI also uses GP rather than the PARI
C library for the GUI (though Sage also uses PARI). Anyway,
here is a screenshot from Sage that actually looks a lot like
yours below:

http://sagemath.org/screen_shots/.html/sage-pari.png

> For now, my new code is source compatible only. All the modifications have
> been include in #ifdef/#endif so the "original" gp compile and work with no
> modification.
> Still many hours before it will work correctly. I use Qt so it must be
> possible to port it on many OS. I only tested it on Linux. Here a screenshot
> :
>
> http://pages.videotron.com/teragone/gui.png
>
> Please, let me know if you have interest for that.

I'm excited that there is so much enthusiasm and energy for open source
projects / guis, etc., related to mathematical software right now. I wonder
if you've solved any problems I don't know how to solve (and conversely)
related to such things?

-- William

David Joyner

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Nov 12, 2007, 9:50:18 PM11/12/07
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I tried emailing the author of mathguide several times a few years ago,
with no response. Of course, my email was in English, which might have been the
problem. In any case, I did not get the impression that it was open source.
Either I am wrong or I presume this guy got permission from the
mathguide author to distribute a derived work based on his code?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

William Stein

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Nov 12, 2007, 9:53:12 PM11/12/07
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On Nov 13, 2007 2:50 AM, David Joyner <wdjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried emailing the author of mathguide several times a few years ago,
> with no response. Of course, my email was in English, which might have been the
> problem. In any case, I did not get the impression that it was open source.
> Either I am wrong or I presume this guy got permission from the
> mathguide author to distribute a derived work based on his code?

It's probably open source I guess, since the web page says
(translated) "Freeware is and with all sources is spread". Perhaps a
German speaker could look at
http://www.math.uni-siegen.de/ring/mathGUIde
and confirm this.

William

--
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

didier deshommes

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Nov 12, 2007, 11:21:56 PM11/12/07
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On 11/12/07, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm excited that there is so much enthusiasm and energy for open source
> projects / guis, etc., related to mathematical software right now. I wonder
> if you've solved any problems I don't know how to solve (and conversely)
> related to such things?

I also stumbled accross Reinteract, which is similar to the Sage
notebook, only it's running on a GUI (Gtk in this case):
http://blog.fishsoup.net/2007/11/10/reinteract-better-interactive-python/

didier

Fabio Tonti

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Nov 13, 2007, 2:18:36 AM11/13/07
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The original Webpage says "[mathGUIde] ist Freeware und wird mit allen Quellen verbreitet" which means that "it's freeware and is distributed with all the sources".
So it doesn't state any licensing details e.g. whether you may modify the source etc.
Maybe I should download it and look into the sourcefiles? There could be some hidden licensing information.

Fabio

David Joyner

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Nov 13, 2007, 6:41:19 AM11/13/07
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On 11/13/07, Fabio Tonti <fto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The original Webpage says "[mathGUIde] ist Freeware und wird mit allen
> Quellen verbreitet" which means that "it's freeware and is distributed with
> all the sources".
> So it doesn't state any licensing details e.g. whether you may modify the
> source etc.
> Maybe I should download it and look into the sourcefiles? There could be
> some hidden licensing information.

Please do. I did and didn't find anything. But everything is in German,
so my search wasn't very useful if there is some information in with other
things. Might be worth emailing Ring. If it is opensource then perhaps
it could be
adapted to be used as a windows SAGE gui interface?

Fabio Tonti

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Nov 13, 2007, 7:28:35 AM11/13/07
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I couldn't find anything either. It only states 

>># mathguide Version 1.0 -- 2006-04-05

>># Copyright 2004-2006 Hartmut Ring

which doesn't sound that good. Mailing ring sounds like a good idea. Should I do it?

David Joyner

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Nov 13, 2007, 8:13:11 AM11/13/07
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Please do!

Fabio Tonti

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Nov 13, 2007, 9:36:28 AM11/13/07
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I hope my short description of the GPL isnt't too bad... the rest should be quite alright.

Fabio

Fabio Tonti

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Nov 13, 2007, 10:08:39 AM11/13/07
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Prof. Ring has answered already, here is his response:

Guten Tag, Herr Tonti,
da ich auf Ihrer Website bzw. im Quellcode von mathGUIde keine Lizenzinformationen finden konnte, erlaube ich es mir, Sie persönlich um diese Informationen zu bitten.
Ich schreibe im Namen von Prof. William Stein und Prof. David Joyner, die die Leiter des SAGE (Software for Algebra and Geometry Experimenation) Softwareprojektes sind und momentan überlegen, ob ihr Programm darin aufgenommen werden kann ( URL: www.sagemath.org/ ). Ich möchte hier festhalten, dass es sich bei den in SAGE aufgenommenen Paketen ausschließlich um "open source"-Software handelt, was auch bedeutet, dass der Quellcode von Dritten verwendet bzw. modifiziert werden kann, unter der Bedingung, dass der Code in Folge weiterhin frei und offen bleibt (siehe z.B. GNU public license "GPL").
ich habe heute erst von SAGE erfahren und werde mir das Projekt in den nächsten Tagen gerne einmal ansehen.

Wären Sie an einer Verwendung Ihres Programmes in SAGE interessiert?
Ja, das fände ich sehr interessant.
mathGUIde hat allerdings seine eigene Oberfläche (in Qt implementiert).
Für mathGUIde selbst gilt die GNU public license "GPL".
Die Qt noncommercial Edition für Windows hat eine weniger liberale Lizenz, aber unter Linux dürfte es keine Probleme geben.

Mit besten Grüßen
Hartmut Ring
--

Prof. Dr. Hartmut Ring
Fachbereich 6 – Mathematik
Universität Siegen
57086 Siegen

Raum EN-B 221
Tel. +49-2741-930235
ri...@mathematik.uni-siegen.de
www.mathematik.uni-siegen.de/ring


A short summary of his writing: he didn't know about SAGE earlier, so he's just found out today. He will take a closer look at the project.
He'd find it interesting to integrate mathGUIde into SAGE. About the licensing: mathGUIde is GPL (oh yes), he just emphasizes that the Qt noncommercial license for Windows is a bit restrictive, but in his view that shouldn't be a problem with Linux (but we want to use it with Windows, right?).

Cheers, Fabio

Martin Albrecht

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Nov 13, 2007, 10:20:50 AM11/13/07
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Hi there,

Qt4 is GPL across all platforms including Windows. However, I don't see why
and how we should/could include a program depending on Qt4 with SAGE? One of
the reasons IIRC a webbrowser interface was implemented in the first place
was to not include a rather heavy GUI toolkit.

Martin

--
name: Martin Albrecht
_pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8EF0DC99
_www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb
_jab: martinr...@jabber.ccc.de

mabshoff

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Nov 13, 2007, 10:43:30 AM11/13/07
to sage-devel

On Nov 13, 12:41 pm, "David Joyner" <wdjoy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/13/07, Fabio Tonti <fto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The original Webpage says "[mathGUIde] ist Freeware und wird mit allen
> > Quellen verbreitet" which means that "it's freeware and is distributed with
> > all the sources".
> > So it doesn't state any licensing details e.g. whether you may modify the
> > source etc.
> > Maybe I should download it and look into the sourcefiles? There could be
> > some hidden licensing information.
>
> Please do. I did and didn't find anything. But everything is in German,
> so my search wasn't very useful if there is some information in with other
> things. Might be worth emailing Ring. If it is opensource then perhaps
> it could be
> adapted to be used as a windows SAGE gui interface?
>
>

Hello,

I have to agree with Martin on this. I see little advantage in
shipping a Qt application with Sage, especially since Qt4 static or
dynamic adds easily 10 mb compressed. I have also written similar code
(also qt 4.2.3 based) that has the added capability to wrap just
about any open source math system text interface and run an arbitrary
number of sessions in parallel. That code base is actively maintained
(fact is I get paid to do so) and will be release to the public under
the GPL in December or so.

But: There isn't a reason to optionally have this interface, but the
default supported mode of Sage on Windows is the browser interface.
There are plenty of open tickets to improve that interface, and a
single 1.0.0 release 1.5 years ago doesn't exactly give a lot of
confidence. I would be glad if Ring would add a Sage mode and start to
improve the software, but that has to happen on his end unless
somebody here will step up and help out.

Cheers,

Michael

Ondrej Certik

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Nov 13, 2007, 10:46:47 AM11/13/07
to sage-...@googlegroups.com
> Hello,
>
> I have to agree with Martin on this. I see little advantage in
> shipping a Qt application with Sage, especially since Qt4 static or
> dynamic adds easily 10 mb compressed. I have also written similar code
> (also qt 4.2.3 based) that has the added capability to wrap just
> about any open source math system text interface and run an arbitrary
> number of sessions in parallel. That code base is actively maintained
> (fact is I get paid to do so) and will be release to the public under
> the GPL in December or so.
>
> But: There isn't a reason to optionally have this interface, but the
> default supported mode of Sage on Windows is the browser interface.
> There are plenty of open tickets to improve that interface, and a
> single 1.0.0 release 1.5 years ago doesn't exactly give a lot of
> confidence. I would be glad if Ring would add a Sage mode and start to
> improve the software, but that has to happen on his end unless
> somebody here will step up and help out.


I also think only the notebook interface should be the default. Just
one way of doing things and doing it well. Everything else optional.

Ondrej

mhampton

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Nov 13, 2007, 12:08:57 PM11/13/07
to sage-devel
To really compete with programs like mathematica or matlab, I think
sage needs to be able to have interactive applet-like interfaces (e.g.
like mathematica's Manipulate). It seems possible and probably most
desirable to do this with the notebook and javascript, but to me at
least javascript seems clunky and difficult. A cross-platform GUI
toolkit like Qt seems like an interesting alternative but I can't see
how it would work over the notebook - i.e. it seems like the
interfaces would have to be written server-side and compiled and run
client-side. If it worked well, it would be worth a larger download
in my opinion.

Marshall

mabshoff

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Nov 13, 2007, 4:03:23 PM11/13/07
to sage-devel

On Nov 13, 6:08 pm, mhampton <hampto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To really compete with programs like mathematica or matlab, I think
> sage needs to be able to have interactive applet-like interfaces (e.g.
> like mathematica's Manipulate). It seems possible and probably most
> desirable to do this with the notebook and javascript, but to me at
> least javascript seems clunky and difficult. A cross-platform GUI
> toolkit like Qt seems like an interesting alternative but I can't see
> how it would work over the notebook - i.e. it seems like the
> interfaces would have to be written server-side and compiled and run
> client-side. If it worked well, it would be worth a larger download
> in my opinion.
>

Yep, I have discussed this with William in the past and something like
what you envision would certainly start its live as an optional
download first.

Re the interface: You would have to redirect stin, stdout & stderr
(and maybe have the sage text application emit some sort of "signal"
like done with my computation), and in case you plot something you
need to write that to a file locally and read it from the client.
There is certainly demand for this kind of application and we could
share the load by developing this with CoCoA, Singular, Pari, GAP and
so on.

Cheers,

Michael

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