bGeigie Nano future

[Planetary Paul]

- I got word that Kithub has folded, so no more bGeigies from them. I was lucky to get my hands on the last few.

- As I understand some parts are by now problematic to get. Is this the chip problem, or are some crucial parts outdated and will no longer be manufactured?

So where does that leave our favourite GM-counter? My guess is that the need for BGN-level GM-counters will only grow. Of course there is the Inspector range of GM-counters, but they don't integrate into the Safecast environment.

BTW, the BGN is great for education as you can look at its innards from all sides and the Safecast project is a great substrate for school projects.

So my question is: is Safecast org looking at a successor/alternatives to the BGN?

[Hynek Buček]

It's still possible to buy all parts one by one but It's time consuming also you have to order PCB board from some manufacturer, cut acrylic parts on laser cutter, stickers on cutting plotter, order sensor through email and order high voltage board through telephone device :D ... yes.

I see actual weakness of the project in:

- arduino fio controller is obsolete not produced anymore and it would be probably sold out in future but still it's available
- IMI rover high voltage board is proprietary, it isn't  open hardware and we are dependent on one distribution source from USA this could be blocker. I understand that it's difficult to find alternative.

- bluetooth module for drivecast app. can be bought but it would have bad firmware and won't work with app, firmware upgrade is problematic

- Kithub distribution doesn't sell kits or BT units anymore :( so it's much harder to construct new unit

I think that Rob is working on new bluetooth module and in past there was project related to alternative high voltage board but I am not sure how it ends. This project would live in future just need some upgrades.

Dne středa 13. července 2022 v 9:23:30 UTC+2 uživatel planeten...@mac.com napsal:

[Jan Helebrant]

Hi,

we hope to be able to bring CzechRad into the game...

https://github.com/juhele/CzechRad

It was expected to be already in the manufacturing process but first COVID, then the chip shortage etc. caused huge delay and we are still missing some components (or some part of the needed amount) to be able to start the production.

In addition, for obvious reasons we could not use the originally planned Russian GM tube and a new tender had to be issued. This is possibly good news for users as it looks like the same type of tube will be used as in the bGeigie Nano. Unfortunately, this means the need to modify the electronics, which is currently underway and being tested. For users, it could also mean the possibility to use the Pelican box and the tube from a non-functional or damaged bGeigie Nano if the tube itself is OK...

Hope to be able to provide some updates soon...

regards

Jan

Dne středa 13. července 2022 v 10:46:17 UTC+2 uživatel hynek...@gmail.com napsal:

[Planetary Paul]

Hi Jan, will there also be a Bluetooth functionality? 

[Jan Helebrant]

Hi,

no, there is no BT chip onboard by default. There are some free pins so maybe DIY or future revision, but none of our 50-60 bGeigies uses it so there was no demand and it also make it possible to use the device in conditions where any wireless devices are forbidden to use.

In addition, there is also virtual COM port available through the USB - currently used for tuning and debugging, but could be used for realtime data acquisition and there is also plan to develop a desktop app for downloading LOGs from the SD card without need to remove it and use external reader. Plus, possibly, some "cleanup" features like "download all LOGs from the card to PC and move the LOGs in the card to Archive subfolder.".

regards

Jan

Dne čtvrtek 14. července 2022 v 23:35:43 UTC+2 uživatel planeten...@mac.com napsal:

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

If you made a Xbee on the board, you should be able to use BLE and Wi-Fi as we do on bGeigeiNano with BleeBee and bGeigieCasts.

Regards,

rob

[Wax Wood]

I would be interested in buying this device if it outperforms the BGeigie Nano and has greater longevity (parts are more easily replaceable). I have two BGeigie Nanos that I am trying to get working now. Just assembled them! I'd hoped to use them for many years, but after reading about problems with sourcing components, am a bit concerned.

[Jan Helebrant]

Hi,

regarding device lifespan - hard to say this in case of CzechRad - we have less cables, less soldered connections than bGeigie Nano - e.g. less potential problems, but now idea about the PCB itself. The battery is standard, the HV power unit too... CzechRad is using same Geiger tube so there is an idea to have "refurbishment" version without the Pelican box and the LND tube so users with dead bGeigies could reuse the most expensive components and get a working device.

But to be honest from our about 60 bGeigies some are still from the first batch which was spring 2015 and are still in service.

Safecast is also working on their bGeigie Zen - both devices are now mentioned in the Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safecast

regards

Jan

Dne sobota 24. prosince 2022 v 8:24:47 UTC+1 uživatel wax...@gmail.com napsal:

[Rob Oudendijk]

Wax,

The future version of the bGeigieNano will be the bGeigieZen(https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/). Now in beta, waiting to get the safepulse to be confirmed working by Pieter Franken.

And then more beta testing.

Regards,

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

The bGiegieZen has been in production now for a few weeks. Soon the first orders will be shipped.

https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/store-2/bgeigiezen-alpha-assembled/

Regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

All,

The next batch of bGeigieZens will be shipped tomorrow.

Regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

I saw the CzechRad detailed pictures. Looks good. Happy to receive data from it in the API.

Personally, I see many limitations and drawbacks of the design. But that is probably just me having built many versions of the bGeigieNano (from the start with prototyping the board itself till the bGeigieZen with many versions between and daily uses).

Regards

Rob Oudendijk.

[Rob Oudendijk]

Paul,

Sorry for the very late reply. We are selling the bGeigieZen now, and we have also setup selling other bGeigieNano  related products.

Feel free to shop around. https://bgeigiezen.safecast.org

Warms regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

Two days ago, Azby Brown showed me the Czech Rad. Looks like a military version of the bGeigieNano. Strong build. Well done.

Looked more like brother of the bGeigieNano than an improved or modernized version to me. 

Good points:

• the USB mounting of the sdcard as an HDD
• easy to read display. Wondering about the burning after long use. The Nano after 1 year continues on the display needs to be replaced.
• Fewer components than the Nano.
• simple, clean display and setup. 

Some “weak” points:

• Not open source. 
• Seems not so service friendly (i can be wrong).
• The M8 is already on retiring, according to Beitain website.
• The 7317 being without grid is asking for imploding tubes soon. 
• USB-A cables are already hard to get in Japan.

Regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Jan Helebrant]

Dear Rob,

thanks to let me know. In principle, the idea was to have a direct bGeigie replacement - not a "smarter" device. bGeigies are serving us well but the parts are now obsolete and KitHub stopped the production. So getting the whole design under control was important for us - now we only rely on standard electronic components suppliers (except the GM tube which is always special part).

• easy to read display. Wondering about the burning after long use. The Nano after 1 year continues on the display needs to be replaced.

That is just common LCD display like in those old good pocket calculators or old phones like Nokia 3310 :-) Even in case the LED backlight somehow stops working you can still read the things on the display in normal light conditions. There is no burning like in case of OLED.

• Not open source. 

I know - this is still a thing to be carefully discussed because of the institutions funding the projects...

• The M8 is already on retiring, according to Beitain website.

As I remember our technitian said it has direct replacement from uBlox production so newer series can have that one.

• The 7317 being without grid is asking for imploding tubes soon. 

In our case we do only use it for gamma measurements so users are discouraged from taking the inner part from the Pelican case. We were thingking about some grid but we already had a big delay and this would require additional time to solve + additional money...

• USB-A cables are already hard to get in Japan.

I know - they are less frequent even here in Europe. We had several talks about the connector to use some years ago - micro USB was really bad and easy to break, USB-C - not sure... And we did not have any damaged USB connector on our bGeigies despite their frequent use and the fact the oldest was something like from 2015.

regards

Jan

Dne pátek 5. července 2024 v 22:32:58 UTC+2 uživatel oudend...@gmail.com napsal:

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

Thank you for the replies, and explanations. Very welcomed.

Regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

All,

For a bGeigieZen latest two weekly updates, visit :https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/news-updates/

Regards,
Rob Oudendijk

[Jan Helebrant]

Hi,
just wanted to add that we are step by step uploading all our CzechRad data from the separate account so you can all see it here:

https://api.safecast.org/en-US/bgeigie_imports?by_user_id=6776&order=created_at+desc

All these uploaded data went through our "quality control" so there are not those high HDOP outliers you are also facing with the Zen.

There was also a minor change in the device ID string - the first units used "CZRDD" but we later decided to make it possible to also distinguish next generations of the device or in case commercial production will be possible in future to avoid conflicts in device numbers so we kept the "CZR" but now our CzechRads use CZRA1 string (so we can have others like CZRA2, CZRB1 etc. in future). Hope this doesn't cause any inconvenience in the Safecast API.

sincerely

Jan

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

We (the Safecast Zen dev team) are currently, for the bGeigieZen working on a custom setup that will be our base for the settings for each region. We will test extensively on different regions of the world to get optimum DOP settings for each region. With the result, we can let the user select what consolation of satellites they want to use. 

The default setting for the factory of the M8/M10 Ublox seems to be based on the USA. For the DOP setting, the current firmware  (V3.2.5) of the has Zen has an option to set the limit of DOP what you can consider valid (default 500 (meaning 5 meter).

If you want, we can share the result of the testing, and maybe you can also get rid of the high DOP outlines.

Regards

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

For the bGeigieZen update/news page :

News/Updates
2024-08-13
Production of the V4.x.x board is starting. It is a next generation of the bGeigieZen based on the feedback of the V3.x.x users. We will make the V4.x.x available is two versions. One is the standard version with isolated battery and TO4056 charger and one called the NFW (not for wimp) version, that is designed for cleanest and style. Orders can be made at the store.
V4.x.x kit and build version will have 3D printed covers for the LND7317 tube instead of the metal grid. Thanks to Joe Morross and Joseph Chiu who created the cover for the Radnote and donated the 3D model that we modified for the bGeigieZen.

Rob Oudendijk

[Rob Oudendijk]

All,

The latest changes to the user manual for the bGeigieZen (thanks to all the nice work of Alberto Villa) are at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dL5jwEKXLMV9gy2V1ZsIVTf527sxFkMO4g-TruKSTp0/edit?usp=sharing

regards
Rob

[Rob Oudendijk]

Latest bGeigieZen news at https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/news-updates/

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

Seems the new header of the files created by the CzechRad are not accepted by the API. So the data can not be imported. 
The header for the CzechRad should be $CZRDD not $CZRA1 as you had implemented.

See https://github.com/Safecast/safecastapi/blob/6cf3612427b8d05c4855d491646f40da74a16987/app/models/bgeigie_import.rb#L179

Hugs and peace,

Rob Oudendijk

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 4:39:04 PM UTC+9 jan.he...@gmail.com wrote:

[Jan Helebrant]

Dear Rob,

yes I mentioned it here some time ago that we decided to use code allowing us distinguish particular device series and make commercial production possible in future (and avoid device numbering conflicts). I should probably not just mention it in the group but also create issue in Git so I did it now:

https://github.com/Safecast/safecastapi/issues/1034

and I also put a detailed information in CzechRad Github data documentation:

https://github.com/juhele/CzechRad/tree/main/DATA

regards

Jan

Dne čtvrtek 12. září 2024 v 13:59:14 UTC+2 uživatel oudend...@gmail.com napsal:

[Rob Oudendijk]

Jan,

See our discussion at https://github.com/Safecast/safecastapi/issues/1034

Regards,

Rob

[Rob Oudendijk]

New updates for the bGeigieZen!!

https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/news-updates/

[Rob Oudendijk]

2024-10-25 Safecast real-time data update (work in progress).

https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/news-updates

[Rob Oudendijk]

Latest bGeigieZen news at

https://bgeigiezen.safecast.jp/news-updates/