The Ramayan according to Brahmakumaris

[Xavier William]

Every morning there are religious instructions on various TV channels and last Wed or so I came upon by accident on such a talk show by an attractive girl/woman in her late 20s or early 30s belonging to the Brahmakumari cult. She had an attractive voice and though very young she talked like a mother to a child as if she was very knowledgeable and her listeners were naive children.

According to her and may be according to her cult, the stories of Ram and Krishna as depicted in our scriptures are more like movies with disclaimers  which say that the story of the movie do not represent any one in real life though it may have resemblances which are purely accidental. According to the Brahmakumari, Ram and Krishna are perfect gods and do not and cannot wage wars or resort to immoral acts like throwing out wives and banishing them to the jungles or having thousands of wives to cavort with. Instead the myths are mere stories concocted to teach people morals and ethics. This means Ram, Krsihna et al are real gods whereas the Ramayan and the Mahabharath are mere works of fiction.

Until now I had thought it was the Bible which had too many versions. But recently I came upon an article in wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Ramayana) according to which there are some 300 versions of the Ramayan including a Moppila or Muslim Ramayan. What is more each version of the Bible or the Ramayan has dozens of interpretations. They are these divergent versions of scriptures and their divergent interpretations which have led to the numerous sects and sub-sects in each religion - Christianity alone has some 40000 divergent sects.  Why do scriptures like the Bible and Ramayan spawn so many versions and their interpretations? It is because they give scant respect to evidence. There is no evidence whatsoever as to whether mythical figures Rama, krishna, Jesus et al even lived let alone as to their divine acts and words. Their stories as reliable as the stories of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus etc al who were considered gods once.  It is because of their inability to provide evidence that all religions as well as quacks and alternate therapists condemn evidence. If people who boast they are rational were to give primary importance to evidence there would not be a proliferation of religions and sects and the ensuing conflicts we see in this world today. And according to the present perceptions of rationale "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence' and so the scriptures do not represent the truth in any way until and unless they can provide evidence. Anyone can say or write anything and anyone can interpret anything in any way they please. But as long as there is no evidence they are all mere meaningless babble in the wilderness.

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Regards

Xavier William

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

[Xavier William]

The problem with you skunk-heads is that you have a one track mind who simply cannot comprehend the fact that there are men and women who do not believe in any god or in any religion. According to you since my name is Xavier I am a Christian and I am answerable for all the nonsense in the Bible. I dont care whether I am buried or burned or left in the forest for the beasts or birds to feed on after I am dead.

I dont believe in any god and so the question of Jesus or anyone being god or devil or being crucified or dying in Kashmir does not concern me. As far as I know all myths are products of human imagination. If you claim that your pet myth or philosophy is divine then you have to provide evidence for the same. If you want everyone to believe in whatever shit you promote without evidence then you too will have to reciprocate and believe in everything that everyone else says. If evidence is not relevant, courts will be lost between the prosecutors and the prosecuted. Only pompous fools who think that they and they alone are right and can be right are the ones who scoff at evidence. Such an attitude is pure pompous Brahmanism by which an 8-year old Brahmin is to be treated as the father of an 80 year old Kshatriya as recommended by Manu,  just because of their castes.

On 24 February 2016 at 02:04, Tilak Shrestha <til...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Xavier Jee
Namaste
No, you are wrong again. Ramayana and Mahabharat are not written as objective history, but to convey the Dharma. Ram and Krishna are Avatar, not God. That is, they are here to convey certain message or set certain example. Ram for ethics, and Krishna to explain Karma yoga. However, it is not copy them, but to learn and inspired from them, and apply in our own life as best as we can.
Jesus, on the other hand, is came only 2 thousand years ago, and his life is well known. He claimed to be 'Christ.' That is as defined by Jews then: Direct descendant of King David, who is anointed by God to save Jews out of Roman colonization. Jesus tried but failed. Thus, Jews do not take him as the Christ. He actually did not die on cross, but survived. Later he ran away to India, lived in Kashmir, had many descendants and died of old age. His burial place still exist in Shrinagar, Kashmir.
All the nonsensical Christian theology is the imagination of St. Paul, who never met Jesus. The Christian theology is the combination of the myths of Egyptian Osiris, and Iranian Mithra.
Here is a question, you never respond to. According to Christianity all you non-Christian ancestors are gone to Hell, correct?
Thanks, Tilak

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To: TheBe...@yahoogroups.com
From: TheBe...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 07:26:28 -0800
Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Re: The Ramayan according to Brahmakumaris

 

Assertions do not make knowledge.

Krishna

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On Feb 21, 2016, at 9:48 PM, Srinivasa Rao Kankipati ksra...@gmail.com [TheBecoming] <TheBe...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Rama and Krishna may have been Mahatmas but not Paramatma. Time catapults a Mahatma or even an ordinary man into the status of a Paramatma. In due course, Mahatma Gandhi will be known as Paramatma Gandhi.

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Posted by: Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri <pkri...@gmail.com>

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[Xavier William]

For me god as well as avatars is mere nonsense. I dont believe in either and I don’t find any difference between them. Even if there is any difference between god and avatar it is totally irrelevant to us rationalists.

Now we will turn to the subject under discussion.

Take the Geetha, it is mostly about doing your duties. Do not all societies teach explicitly or implicitly the importance of doing one's duty? So why the big deal about the Geetha?

The Ten Commandments teach that thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill etc. Does it mean that these mores and codes are unique to the Bible? All ethical codes are common to all societies irrespective of their religions.

Most of our present day religions and their myths were written some 2000-3000 years ago. There were other religions doing the rounds before 2000 years and they also taught morals and ethics which were similar to the ones taught to us by present religions. Thus there was King Hammurabi of Babylon who lived some 2000 years ago, before any of today's religions. (He was born in 1792BCE) He was one of the first to codify laws in human history. He had some 282 laws inscribed into some 12 tablets of stone. It was in imitation of this that the Israelites who had been enslaved by the Babylonians had their ten commandments inscribed into stone though they propagated the lie that these tablet of Ten Commandments were given by god. Moses is according to me a fictional character. But his myths are attributed to 1000 to 1200 years BCE. On the other hand Valmiki who compiled the Ramayan seem to have lived some 500-1000 years after Moses and more than 1500 years after Hammurabi. The Bagavath Geetha also seems to have been written about the same period as the Ramayan though the ideas of all these scriptures had been doing the rounds long before they were committed to writing.

The Bible not only aped Hammurabi's Babylonian tablets but it also plagiarized myths such as the story of creation, the story of Adam (Adam is Adamu in Babylonian myths), the story of the flood etc. (The dimensions of Noah's ark in the Bible are exactly the same as the dimensions of the ark in the Babylonian myth of the Epic of Gilgamesh which predates the Bible by a few hundred years.) In addition to these myths and tablets the Bible also borrowed ideas of one god, the practice of circumcision, the abstention from pork etc from Egypt where the Jews were slaves.  They then flaunted them as their own. And where did the Egyptians borrow the practice of circumcision from? There are many primitive societies in Africa which practice circumcision and this practice must have diffused to Egypt and the surrounding areas.

Christianity makes much of Jesus’ teaching “Do unto others as you would like to be done unto you.” But long before Jesus, Confucius (551 – 479 BC) had taught ‘Do not do unto others as you would not like to be done unto you,” which in turn means do not hurt others as you would not be like to be hurt by others. This is far more practical a commandment than Jesus’ Utopian exhortation to do unto others as you would like to be done unto you.

Similarly Jesus said “Love your enemies.” We have a saying in Malayalam according to which “An enemy next door may be of more help to you in need than a close relation far away.” This statement in Malayalam is a far more pragmatic one than Jesus’ instruction to love one’s enemies which is well nigh impossible for most if not all human beings (and animals) Christianity flaunts the “Love thy enemies” commandment as its own whereas the more pragmatic Malayalam statement is far more logical and rational.

Like in the present, in the past too ideas evolved in the same society on one hand and diffused from one society to another on the other. Thus the idea of one god, circumcision, virgin birth, setting up codes, loving enemies, carrying out vendettas etc evolved in one society or in many societies simultaneously and then diffused to neighboring societies though in the process some societies and their religions staked claims to these ideas as their own – Dawkins call them memes. There are good memes such as meme of loving others; there are bad memes such as carrying out vendettas, slavery, caste etc and there are irrelevant memes such as one god, circumcision, abstention from meat or pork etc.

Take the Ten Commandments! Some of them such as the one against idolatry are irrelevant. Then there are the commandments against adultery which are practiced by some societies but not by others. But there are the commandments to respect your parents, to be honest, not to kill etc which are common to all societies without exception. Thus Hammurabi’s Law #265 states: "If a herdsman, to whose care cattle or sheep have been entrusted, be guilty of fraud and make false returns of the natural increase, or sell them for money, then shall he be convicted and pay the owner ten times the loss." It is obvious that this is a human law and any society would have to have the same law or a similar one if it is to prosper.

As societies evolved into modern ones we have tens of thousands of laws, Acts, rules and regulations which no ancient societies or religions could even imagine. Thus our traffic rules were not given by any god or religion. We stick to traffic rules not because of any god or because of any religious compulsions; but we obey traffic rules for our own good irrespective of our religions because we know that we cannot move ahead even a foot on our roads without these traffic rules.

Religions staking claims to ethics and morals or dharma or  karma is as ridiculous as religions saying that traffic laws, building rules, labor laws etc are of their invention and that without religions we would not be able to travel on the roads or to erect buildings.^.

For economic development we need basic infrastructure such as roads, communication, healthcare etc. But above all we need peace in society for economic prosperity which all crave for. For this peace in society we need a moral infrastructure which enable us to work together as one unit. This moral infrastructure is built up on codes and laws and these codes and laws have been in place long before any of today’s religions. However these present religions flaunt these ancient laws and codes as their own which is as ridiculous as any one saying that he is his great, great grandfather’s parent. In fact as Arthus C Clarke said "“One of the greatest tragedies in mankind's entire history may be that morality was hijacked by religion.” You are contributing to that tragedy when you say that Rama contributed Dharma or that krishna contributed to the importance of doing one's duty or the Bible contributed to the cause of honesty and non-violence with its ten commandments.

 

On 24 February 2016 at 21:04, Tilak Shrestha <til...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Xavier Jee
Namaste
Your outburst comes from your inability to read my posting. I wrote Ram and Krishna are Avatars, not Gods. Their importance comes from their contributions. Even if we assume they never existed, still it does not matter.

​​

Because, the teachings are there for all to see. It is not about 'believing.' Hinduism is not religion. But it is about understanding and applying in your life. There is absolutely no compulsion. It is entirely up to you, if you are interested to learn and apply. It is like claiming here the aspirin for head ache. It is your choice to take it, if you have head ache. 
I am not a Brahman and pompousness is not Dharma. Manu Smriti is Smriti, not Shruti. It does not speak for Dharma. How you got name 'Xavier' if you are not a Christian? My apology, if my assumption is not correct. Good to know, that you are not a Christian. There is still hope for you. Congratulation!
Tilak

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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 09:28:00 +0530

Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Re: The Ramayan according to Brahmakumaris

From: vare...@gmail.com
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[Xavier William]

I am not surprised that knuckleheads like Vikram and Panicker judge people by their names and castes and not by their words and/or actions. After all they are followers of that tyrant Manu who said"135. Know that a Brahmana of ten years and Kshatriya of a hundred years stand to each other in the relation of father and son; but between those two the Brahmana is the father." Of course it must have been much worse for Sudras, Chandalas and others.

So according to Sanatana Dharma of Manu if a retarded Brahmin boy aged 10 and our former president KR Narayanan were to apply for a job in the IFS, the boy would be appointed the ambassador to a prominent country whereas KR Narayanan would end up as his sweeper or cook or worse. It would be the same if the same retarded Brahmin boy and Prof Abdul Kalam were to apply for a job in BARC. The retard would end up as chief scientist in charge of manufacturing atom bombs whereas Kalam would be sweeping the BARC floors if Vikram and his cronies have their way. What is more after all this these Sanghi knuckle heads will boast that caste is not by birth but by merit. But when it comes to real life, they judge Abdul Kalam as a Muslim and KR Narayan as a Chandala not withstanding their words and/or actions. So I am honored to be judged as a Christian by these knuckleheads who cannot distinguish head from butt.

On 25 February 2016 at 20:23, 'MrCMVikram .' CMVi...@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Look at the mirror you idiot, You are the extreme case of hate, fanatism, and everything that is evil in this world.  You blame other for all your evil qualities.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Xavier William vare...@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

This is typical extremism coming under the Sanghi label and identical with teh the Al quaida or IS model or label. This idealogic goon called Vikram who calls himself mister for reasons best known to him has not discussed even a single issue or point I have raised. Instead he starts abusing me and ends up abusing me.

My dear self called mr Vikram. Pl disuss the points I have raised or raise your own points for discussion instead of abusing me. Even if I were wrong in criticizing the Vedas in my submissions your abuses show for what your culture is. And if if your culture is Indian or Vedic your abuses help me more than they hurt me. So go on what your goons are best at abuse and whenever the opportunity offers take to violence as your goons did at Patiala high court and thereby gave your enemies more grit than you had bargained for.

So my dear self declared Mister, pl discuss at least one of the many points I have raised instead of using personal abuse as your strong point.

On 25 February 2016 at 15:51, 'MrCMVikram .' CMVi...@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Look who is talking of one track mind.  What I don't understand is why is this Christian getting involved in Hindu affairs?  Why does he not talk about the pedophile homosexual Christian priests all over the world, especially in Kerala?  Why does he not talk about the traitor Christian priests who work hard to split Indian people and sell us to the Pope? Why does he not talk about the slaughter of Christians in Syria?  This idiot has so much hate in him that he is going to die out of a heart attack.   

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Posted by: "MrCMVikram ." <cmvi...@gmail.com>

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