SacGRU Thursday April 3rd topic update: Discussion on the future of SacGRU

Steve

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Apr 2, 2014, 12:01:00 PM4/2/14

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Hello all!

Due to a last minute cancellation by our entire speaking panel, we will be resuming our normal schedule. No worries, I have plenty of content to show and things to discuss. Some things that we will be discussing:

- Sponsor discussions and thanks.

-Alternative JVM news.

- Discussion on sponsors. We have a number of new sponsors for Book Giveaways and the like. Let's discuss what else we would like to do.

- The future name of the group. It was proposed to change it to The Sacramento Polyglot Programmers. Please weigh in.

- Remote members. There has been a number of times that folks have inquired if they could join us remotely over video. I purchased a new Camera and Microphone that will be arriving minutes before our meeting but that may allow us to provide high quality video for remote folks.

- Future talks. I would like to propose a new format for future talks that include coding exercises and more experienced or senior members pairing with less experienced.

- Slides and Videos on Groovy and Kotlin - There was just a big Groovy conference in Spain so there are lots of slides worth looking at. Also there is a new video series on Kotlin with very short videos we might want to take a look at.

Hope to see you all Thursday!

-Steve

Brian Lavender

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Apr 2, 2014, 1:27:42 PM4/2/14

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Anyone hangin on IRC these days?

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To post to this group, send email to [2]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [3]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [4]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> 2. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 3. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 4. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

--
Brian Lavender
http://www.brie.com/brian/

"There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other
way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."

Professor C. A. R. Hoare
The 1980 Turing award lecture

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Steven Holmes

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Apr 2, 2014, 1:31:03 PM4/2/14

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I have not been. Would you mind explaining the benefits over, say, hangouts? Or IM?

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--
Steve Holmes

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
-Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)

Brian Lavender

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Apr 2, 2014, 1:56:31 PM4/2/14

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But, IRC is universal. It will never go away. Google hangouts may some
day go way.

In essence, I run IRC on my server. So, I am on the channel no
matter what computer I am on. I log into my server sometimes with putty
or my linux machine, use screen to reconnect to my active session, and
hit the screen that has irssi on it. And, then I can see what is going
on. So, if you check certain channels, I am there, even though I might
not be at the terminal. But, I will see your message.

JBoss guys use IRC.

I wouldn't suggest giving up hangouts or IM, but instead consider IRC
as an extra tool for chat.

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:31:03AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> I have not been. Would you mind explaining the benefits over, say,
> hangouts? Or IM?
>

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Brian Lavender <[1]br...@brie.com>

> > an email to [1][2]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> [2][3]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at
> [3][4]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > For more options, visit
> [4][5]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[6]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > 2. mailto:[7]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > 3. [8]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > 4. [9]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> --
> Brian Lavender
> [10]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
> make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the
> other
> way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> deficiencies."
> Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> The 1980 Turing award lecture
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>
> --
> Steve Holmes
> "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a
> fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [11]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to [12]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [13]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [14]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 2. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 3. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 4. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 5. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 6. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 7. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 8. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 9. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 10. http://www.brie.com/brian/
> 11. mailto:sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> 12. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 13. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 14. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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Tom Parker

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Apr 2, 2014, 2:18:08 PM4/2/14

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Does any one remember how to log into an irc channel? LOL

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Steven Holmes

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Apr 2, 2014, 2:28:46 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

Haha! That's my problem. Although if you use Adium it can connect to IRC and save all your credentials.

I'm not moved by the possibility that hangouts will go away. XMPP has been going strong for a long time now. And there is no cost to switching if it does move on. What I'm curious about is if IRC has some technological or security advantage over IM. Does it play into the popularity with developers? Or is it just the lack of ownership of the transport that causes developers to use IRC.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sac...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Brian Lavender

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Apr 2, 2014, 3:06:14 PM4/2/14

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On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:28:46AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> Haha! That's my problem. Although if you use Adium it can connect to
> IRC and save all your credentials.
>
> I'm not moved by the possibility that hangouts will go away. XMPP has
> been going strong for a long time now. And there is no cost to

XMPP is an open protocol.

> switching if it does move on. What I'm curious about is if IRC has
> some technological or security advantage over IM. Does it play into
> the popularity with developers? Or is it just the lack of ownership of
> the transport that causes developers to use IRC.

Yes, it just plays into popularity with developers. Information on IRC should
generally be considered public. If you want security, XMPP would be a better
choice.

irssi is a good irc client that works well when combined with screen.
http://carina.org.uk/screenirssi.shtml

brian

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Brian Lavender

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Apr 2, 2014, 3:07:36 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

I just created #sacgru on irc.freenode.net

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:28:46AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:

> Haha! That's my problem. Although if you use Adium it can connect to
> IRC and save all your credentials.
>
> I'm not moved by the possibility that hangouts will go away. XMPP has
> been going strong for a long time now. And there is no cost to
> switching if it does move on. What I'm curious about is if IRC has
> some technological or security advantage over IM. Does it play into
> the popularity with developers? Or is it just the lack of ownership of
> the transport that causes developers to use IRC.
>

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Tom Parker <[1]tpar...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Does any one remember how to log into an irc channel? LOL
>

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Brian Lavender <[2]br...@brie.com>

> wrote:
>
> But, IRC is universal. It will never go away. Google hangouts may some
> day go way.
> In essence, I run IRC on my server. So, I am on the channel no
> matter what computer I am on. I log into my server sometimes with putty
> or my linux machine, use screen to reconnect to my active session, and
> hit the screen that has irssi on it. And, then I can see what is going
> on. So, if you check certain channels, I am there, even though I might
> not be at the terminal. But, I will see your message.
> JBoss guys use IRC.
> I wouldn't suggest giving up hangouts or IM, but instead consider IRC
> as an extra tool for chat.
> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:31:03AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> > I have not been. Would you mind explaining the benefits over,
> say,
> > hangouts? Or IM?
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Brian Lavender

> <[1][3]br...@brie.com>

> > > an email to [1][2][4]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > > To post to this group, send email to

> > [2][3][5]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > Visit this group at
> > [3][4][6]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > For more options, visit
> > [4][5][7]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:[6][8]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > 2. mailto:[7][9]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 3. [8][10]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 4. [9][11]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > --
> > Brian Lavender
> > [10][12]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> > an email to [11][13]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
> make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the
> other
> way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> deficiencies."
> Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> The 1980 Turing award lecture
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

> send an email to [32]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to [33]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [34]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [35]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> --
> Steve Holmes
> "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a
> fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

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Tom Parker

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Apr 2, 2014, 3:46:14 PM4/2/14

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Are you holding it ranson : )

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Brian Lavender

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Apr 2, 2014, 5:24:58 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

Uh, I am waiting for someone to join the party.

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:46:14PM -0700, Tom Parker wrote:
> Are you holding it ranson : )
>

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian Lavender <[1]br...@brie.com>
> wrote:
>
> I just created #sacgru on [2]irc.freenode.net

>
> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:28:46AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
>
> > Haha! That's my problem. Although if you use Adium it can
> connect to
> > IRC and save all your credentials.
> >
> > I'm not moved by the possibility that hangouts will go away. XMPP
> has
> > been going strong for a long time now. And there is no cost to
> > switching if it does move on. What I'm curious about is if IRC
> has
> > some technological or security advantage over IM. Does it play
> into
> > the popularity with developers? Or is it just the lack of
> ownership of
> > the transport that causes developers to use IRC.
> >
>
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Tom Parker

> <[1][3]tpar...@gmail.com>

>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Does any one remember how to log into an irc channel? LOL
> >
>
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Brian Lavender

> <[2][4]br...@brie.com>

>
> > wrote:
> >
> > But, IRC is universal. It will never go away. Google hangouts may
> some
> > day go way.
> > In essence, I run IRC on my server. So, I am on the channel no
> > matter what computer I am on. I log into my server sometimes with
> putty
> > or my linux machine, use screen to reconnect to my active session,
> and
> > hit the screen that has irssi on it. And, then I can see what is
> going
> > on. So, if you check certain channels, I am there, even though I
> might
> > not be at the terminal. But, I will see your message.
> > JBoss guys use IRC.
> > I wouldn't suggest giving up hangouts or IM, but instead consider
> IRC
> > as an extra tool for chat.
> > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:31:03AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> > > I have not been. Would you mind explaining the benefits
> over,
> > say,
> > > hangouts? Or IM?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Brian Lavender
>

> > <[1][3][5]br...@brie.com>

> [1][2][4][6]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
>

> > > [2][3][5][7]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > Visit this group at
> > > [3][4][6][8]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > For more options, visit
> > > [4][5][7][9]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > 1.
> mailto:[6][8][10]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 2. mailto:[7][9][11]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 3. [8][10][12]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 4. [9][11][13]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > --
> > > Brian Lavender
> > > [10][12][14]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> [11][13][15]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> > > To post to this group, send email to
>

> > [12][14][16]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > Visit this group at
> [13][15][17]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > For more options, visit
> > [14][16][18]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:[17][19]br...@brie.com
> > > 2. mailto:[18][20]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 3. mailto:[19][21]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 4. [20][22]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 5. [21][23]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 6. mailto:[22][24]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 7. mailto:[23][25]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 8. [24][26]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 9. [25][27]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 10. [26][28]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 11. mailto:[27][29]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > 12. mailto:[28][30]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 13. [29][31]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 14. [30][32]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > --
> > Brian Lavender
> > [31][33]http://www.brie.com/brian/

>
> > "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
> to
> > make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And
> the
> > other
> > way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> > deficiencies."
> > Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> > The 1980 Turing award lecture
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPE9PAAoJELGFSlW7MacNAakH/1XGJZPxz+YhRk8pHQsropMH
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> > =iALV
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it,
>

> > send an email to [32][34]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> [33][35]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at
> [34][36]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > For more options, visit
> [35][37]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> >
> > --
> > Steve Holmes
> > "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you
> are a
> > fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> > -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
>

> > an email to [36][38]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
> make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the
> other
> way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> deficiencies."
> Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> The 1980 Turing award lecture
>
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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> VkQLNAujNYbUR1zrNsAnsUW8M/Q8hECBd7z0phHsP+yxv+ysUfvrlu8qeE9H6BoQ
> dL98C6BdJbiYZgLmP8H3EvE1xo7kjDP3KBmUg9ByZharnoGnsBK8/8OvhHBpKSc=
> =Mw9d
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [82]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to [83]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [84]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [85]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 2. http://irc.freenode.net/
> 3. mailto:tpar...@gmail.com
> 4. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 5. mailto:br...@brie.com

> 6. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 7. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 8. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 9. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

signature.asc

Aria Kraft

unread,

Apr 2, 2014, 6:37:55 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

If anyone's interested here's a link to the channel through a web client:

http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru&prompt=1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPIApAAoJELGFSlW7MacNkl4H/3QeskZVPVxXJHmdWiowQdz+
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GFHtQHB9x0KGTY5SaW4WFGw0IklG1whZ+3EOe6tN+pZjKSRZ1TUr+f6yL8PVXUc=
=vxcu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Brian Lavender

unread,

Apr 2, 2014, 7:04:51 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

It was a party!

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 03:37:55PM -0700, Aria Kraft wrote:
> If anyone's interested here's a link to the channel through a web
> client:

> [1]http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru&promp
> t=1
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Brian Lavender <[2]br...@brie.com>

> wrote:
>
> Uh, I am waiting for someone to join the party.
>
> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:46:14PM -0700, Tom Parker wrote:
> > Are you holding it ranson : )
> >
>
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian Lavender

> <[1][3]br...@brie.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I just created #sacgru on [2][4]irc.freenode.net

>
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:28:46AM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> >
> > > Haha! That's my problem. Although if you use Adium it can
> > connect to
> > > IRC and save all your credentials.
> > >
> > > I'm not moved by the possibility that hangouts will go away.
> XMPP
> > has
> > > been going strong for a long time now. And there is no cost
> to
> > > switching if it does move on. What I'm curious about is if
> IRC
> > has
> > > some technological or security advantage over IM. Does it
> play
> > into
> > > the popularity with developers? Or is it just the lack of
> > ownership of
> > > the transport that causes developers to use IRC.
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Tom Parker
>

> > <[1][3][5]tpar...@gmail.com>

>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Does any one remember how to log into an irc channel? LOL
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Brian Lavender
>

> > <[2][4][6]br...@brie.com>

> > > <[1][3][5][7]br...@brie.com>

> > [1][2][4][6][8]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> >
>

> > > > [2][3][5][7][9]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > Visit this group at
> > > >
> [3][4][6][8][10]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > > For more options, visit
> > > >
> [4][5][7][9][11]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > > >
> > > > > References
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.
> > mailto:[6][8][10][12]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 2.
> mailto:[7][9][11][13]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 3.
> [8][10][12][14]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > > 4.
> [9][11][13][15]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > --
> > > > Brian Lavender
> > > > [10][12][14][16]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> > [11][13][15][17]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> >
>

> > > [12][14][16][18]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > Visit this group at
> > [13][15][17][19]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > For more options, visit
> > > [14][16][18][20]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > 1. mailto:[17][19][21]br...@brie.com
> > > > 2.
> mailto:[18][20][22]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 3. mailto:[19][21][23]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 4.
> [20][22][24]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 5. [21][23][25]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 6.
> mailto:[22][24][26]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 7. mailto:[23][25][27]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 8.
> [24][26][28]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 9. [25][27][29]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 10. [26][28][30]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > > 11.
> mailto:[27][29][31]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 12. mailto:[28][30][32]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 13.
> [29][31][33]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 14. [30][32][34]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > --
> > > Brian Lavender
> > > [31][33][35]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> [32][34][36]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> > > To post to this group, send email to
>

> > [33][35][37]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > Visit this group at
> > [34][36][38]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > For more options, visit
> > [35][37][39]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Steve Holmes
> > > "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think
> you
> > are a
> > > fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> > > -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it,
> > send
> >
>
> > > an email to

> [36][38][40]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> > > To post to this group, send email to
>

> > [37][39][41]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > Visit this group at
> > [38][40][42]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > For more options, visit
> > [39][41][43]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:[42][44]tpar...@gmail.com
> > > 2. mailto:[43][45]br...@brie.com
> > > 3. mailto:[44][46]br...@brie.com
> > > 4. mailto:[45][47]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 5. mailto:[46][48]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 6. [47][49]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 7. [48][50]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 8. mailto:[49][51]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 9. mailto:[50][52]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 10. [51][53]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 11. [52][54]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 12. [53][55]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 13. mailto:[54][56]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 14. mailto:[55][57]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 15. [56][58]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 16. [57][59]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 17. mailto:[58][60]br...@brie.com
> > > 18.
> mailto:[59][61]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 19. mailto:[60][62]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 20. [61][63]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 21. [62][64]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 22.
> mailto:[63][65]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 23. mailto:[64][66]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 24. [65][67]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 25. [66][68]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 26. [67][69]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 27. mailto:[68][70]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 28. mailto:[69][71]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 29. [70][72]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 30. [71][73]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 31. [72][74]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 32. mailto:[73][75]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > 33. mailto:[74][76]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 34. [75][77]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 35. [76][78]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 36. mailto:[77][79]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > 37. mailto:[78][80]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 38. [79][81]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 39. [80][82]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lavender
> > [81][83]http://www.brie.com/brian/

>
> > "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
> to
> > make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And
> the
> > other
> > way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> > deficiencies."
> > Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> > The 1980 Turing award lecture
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPF/3AAoJELGFSlW7MacNfOcIAIqEY2z+B4ER/DSy3Fp8Z1x/
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> > =Mw9d
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
>

> > an email to [82][84]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
> make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the
> other
> way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> deficiencies."
> Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> The 1980 Turing award lecture
>
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [174]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to [175]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [176]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [177]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> 1. http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru&prompt=1

> 2. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 3. mailto:br...@brie.com

> 4. http://irc.freenode.net/
> 5. mailto:tpar...@gmail.com
> 6. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 7. mailto:br...@brie.com

> 8. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 9. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 10. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 11. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 12. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 13. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 14. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 15. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 16. http://www.brie.com/brian/
> 17. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 18. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 19. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 20. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 21. mailto:br...@brie.com

> 22. mailto:sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> 23. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 24. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 25. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 26. mailto:sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> 27. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 28. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 29. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 30. http://www.brie.com/brian/
> 31. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 32. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 33. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 34. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 35. http://www.brie.com/brian/
> 36. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com

> 37. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 38. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 39. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

signature.asc

Steven Holmes

unread,

Apr 2, 2014, 7:10:50 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

I strangely cannot connect. Must be blocked.

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPJeTAAoJELGFSlW7MacN6xIH/0EZ6yDdkqLE379pj7ZBHDby
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=bj6Q
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Brian Lavender

unread,

Apr 2, 2014, 8:22:02 PM4/2/14

to sac...@googlegroups.com

Hmm, blocked perhaps?

http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru&prompt=1

On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 04:10:50PM -0700, Steven Holmes wrote:
> I strangely cannot connect. Must be blocked.
>

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Brian Lavender <[1]br...@brie.com>

> wrote:
>
> It was a party!
>
> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 03:37:55PM -0700, Aria Kraft wrote:
> > If anyone's interested here's a link to the channel through a web
> > client:
>
> >

> [1][2]http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru
> &promp

> > t=1
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Brian Lavender

> <[2][3]br...@brie.com>

>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Uh, I am waiting for someone to join the party.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:46:14PM -0700, Tom Parker wrote:
> > > Are you holding it ranson : )
> > >
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian Lavender
>

> > <[1][3][4]br...@brie.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I just created #sacgru on [2][4][5]irc.freenode.net

> > > <[1][3][5][6]tpar...@gmail.com>

>
> >
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does any one remember how to log into an irc channel?
> LOL
> > > >
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Brian Lavender
> >
>

> > > <[2][4][6][7]br...@brie.com>

> > > > <[1][3][5][7][8]br...@brie.com>

> > > [1][2][4][6][8][9]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > >
> > > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > >
> >
>
> > > > >

> [2][3][5][7][9][10]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > Visit this group at
> > > > >
> > [3][4][6][8][10][11]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > > > For more options, visit
> > > > >
> > [4][5][7][9][11][12]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > References
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.
> > >
> mailto:[6][8][10][12][13]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > > 2.
> > mailto:[7][9][11][13][14]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > > 3.
> > [8][10][12][14][15]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > > > 4.
> > [9][11][13][15][16]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > > --
> > > > > Brian Lavender
> > > > >
> [10][12][14][16][17]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> [11][13][15][17][18]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > >
> > > > > To post to this group, send email to
> > >
> >
>

> > > > [12][14][16][18][19]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > Visit this group at
> > >
> [13][15][17][19][20]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > > For more options, visit
> > > >
> [14][16][18][20][21]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > > >
> > > > > References
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. mailto:[17][19][21][22]br...@brie.com
> > > > > 2.
> > mailto:[18][20][22][23]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 3.
> mailto:[19][21][23][24]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 4.
> > [20][22][24][25]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > > 5.
> [21][23][25][26]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > > 6.
> > mailto:[22][24][26][27]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 7.
> mailto:[23][25][27][28]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 8.
> > [24][26][28][29]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > > 9.
> [25][27][29][30]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > > 10.
> [26][28][30][31]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > > > 11.
> > mailto:[27][29][31][32]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 12.
> mailto:[28][30][32][33]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > 13.
> > [29][31][33][34]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > > 14.
> [30][32][34][35]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > --
> > > > Brian Lavender
> > > > [31][33][35][36]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> > [32][34][36][37]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> >
>

> > > [33][35][37][38]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > Visit this group at
> > > [34][36][38][39]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > For more options, visit
> > > [35][37][39][40]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Steve Holmes
> > > > "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people
> think
> > you
> > > are a
> > > > fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> > > > -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the
> > Google
> > > > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from
> > it,
> > > send
> > >
> >
> > > > an email to
>

> > [36][38][40][41]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> >
> > > > To post to this group, send email to
> >
>

> > > [37][39][41][42]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > Visit this group at
> > > [38][40][42][43]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > > For more options, visit
> > > [39][41][43][44]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > > >
> > > > References
> > > >
> > > > 1. mailto:[42][44][45]tpar...@gmail.com
> > > > 2. mailto:[43][45][46]br...@brie.com
> > > > 3. mailto:[44][46][47]br...@brie.com
> > > > 4.
> mailto:[45][47][48]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 5. mailto:[46][48][49]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 6.
> [47][49][50]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 7. [48][50][51]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 8.
> mailto:[49][51][52]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 9. mailto:[50][52][53]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 10.
> [51][53][54]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 11. [52][54][55]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 12. [53][55][56]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > > 13.
> mailto:[54][56][57]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 14. mailto:[55][57][58]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 15.
> [56][58][59]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 16. [57][59][60]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 17. mailto:[58][60][61]br...@brie.com
> > > > 18.
> > mailto:[59][61][62]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 19. mailto:[60][62][63]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 20.
> [61][63][64]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 21. [62][64][65]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 22.
> > mailto:[63][65][66]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 23. mailto:[64][66][67]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 24.
> [65][67][68]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 25. [66][68][69]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 26. [67][69][70]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > > 27.
> mailto:[68][70][71]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 28. mailto:[69][71][72]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 29.
> [70][72][73]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 30. [71][73][74]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 31. [72][74][75]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > > 32.
> mailto:[73][75][76]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 33. mailto:[74][76][77]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 34.
> [75][77][78]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 35. [76][78][79]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > > 36.
> mailto:[77][79][80]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 37. mailto:[78][80][81]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > > 38.
> [79][81][82]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > > 39. [80][82][83]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian Lavender
> > > [81][83][84]http://www.brie.com/brian/

> [82][84][85]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

>
> > > To post to this group, send email to
>

> > [83][85][86]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> > > Visit this group at
> > [84][86][87]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> > > For more options, visit
> > [85][87][88]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. mailto:[88][89]br...@brie.com
> > > 2. [89][90]http://irc.freenode.net/
> > > 3. mailto:[90][91]tpar...@gmail.com
> > > 4. mailto:[91][92]br...@brie.com
> > > 5. mailto:[92][93]br...@brie.com
> >
> > > 6. mailto:[93][94]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 7. mailto:[94][95]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 8. [95][96]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 9. [96][97]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> >
> > > 10. mailto:[97][98]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 11. mailto:[98][99]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 12. [99][100]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 13. [100][101]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 14. [101][102]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 15.
> mailto:[102][103]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 16. mailto:[103][104]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 17. [104][105]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 18. [105][106]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 19. mailto:[106][107]br...@brie.com
> > > 20.
> mailto:[107][108]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 21. mailto:[108][109]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 22. [109][110]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 23. [110][111]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 24.
> mailto:[111][112]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 25. mailto:[112][113]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 26. [113][114]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 27. [114][115]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 28. [115][116]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 29.
> mailto:[116][117]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 30. mailto:[117][118]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 31. [118][119]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 32. [119][120]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 33. [120][121]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 34.
> mailto:[121][122]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 35. mailto:[122][123]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 36. [123][124]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 37. [124][125]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 38.
> mailto:[125][126]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 39. mailto:[126][127]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 40. [127][128]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 41. [128][129]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 42. mailto:[129][130]tpar...@gmail.com
> > > 43. mailto:[130][131]br...@brie.com
> > > 44. mailto:[131][132]br...@brie.com
> > > 45.
> mailto:[132][133]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 46. mailto:[133][134]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 47. [134][135]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 48. [135][136]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 49.
> mailto:[136][137]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 50. mailto:[137][138]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 51. [138][139]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 52. [139][140]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 53. [140][141]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 54.
> mailto:[141][142]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 55. mailto:[142][143]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 56. [143][144]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 57. [144][145]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 58. mailto:[145][146]br...@brie.com
> > > 59.
> mailto:[146][147]sacgru%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com
> > > 60. mailto:[147][148]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 61. [148][149]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 62. [149][150]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 63.
> mailto:[150][151]sacgru%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com
> > > 64. mailto:[151][152]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 65. [152][153]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 66. [153][154]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 67. [154][155]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 68.
> mailto:[155][156]sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> > > 69. mailto:[156][157]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 70. [157][158]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 71. [158][159]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 72. [159][160]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 73.
> mailto:[160][161]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 74. mailto:[161][162]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 75. [162][163]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 76. [163][164]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 77.
> mailto:[164][165]sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> > > 78. mailto:[165][166]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 79. [166][167]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 80. [167][168]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> > > 81. [168][169]http://www.brie.com/brian/
> > > 82. mailto:[169][170]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > 83. mailto:[170][171]sac...@googlegroups.com
> > > 84. [171][172]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> > > 85. [172][173]https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lavender
> > [173][174]http://www.brie.com/brian/

>
> > "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is
> to
> > make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And
> the
> > other
> > way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> > deficiencies."
> > Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> > The 1980 Turing award lecture
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > =vxcu
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "SacGRU" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
>

> > an email to [174][175]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.

> > To post to this group, send email to

> "There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to
> make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the
> other
> way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
> deficiencies."
> Professor C. A. R. Hoare
> The 1980 Turing award lecture
>
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> Steve Holmes
> "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a
> fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
> -Mark Twain (or maybe Abraham Lincoln, I've heard both)
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "SacGRU" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

> an email to [357]sacgru+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to [358]sac...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at [359]http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru.
> For more options, visit [360]https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 2. http://webchat.freenode.net/?nick=sacgruer.&channels=%23sacgru&promp
> 3. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 4. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 5. http://irc.freenode.net/
> 6. mailto:tpar...@gmail.com
> 7. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 8. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 9. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 10. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 11. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 12. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 13. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
> 14. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 15. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 16. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 17. http://www.brie.com/brian/
> 18. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com

> 19. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 20. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 21. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 22. mailto:br...@brie.com
> 23. mailto:sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com
> 24. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 25. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 26. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 27. mailto:sacgru%252Buns...@googlegroups.com

> 28. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 29. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 30. https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> 31. http://www.brie.com/brian/

> 32. mailto:sacgru%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com

> 33. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 34. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 35. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> 304. mailto:sac...@googlegroups.com
> 305. http://groups.google.com/group/sacgru
> 306. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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