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Anti-Gun Lunacy in DC: Man Found Guilty…of Owning Antique Replica Bullets
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Leroy N. Soetoro
Mar 29, 2014, 1:29:05 PM3/29/14
to
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/anti-gun-lunacy-in-dc-man-found-guilty-of-
owning-antique-replica-bullets_032014
Back in January, we reported the story of Mark Witaschek, whose D.C. home
was raided by SWAT agents with a search warrant for “firearms and
ammunition … gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and
ammunition receipts.”
The raid was conducted by 30 agents in full tactical gear whose rampage
through the home caused $10,000 in damage and terrified Witaschek’s
teenaged children.
Four items were confiscated during the raid, per the warrant:
“One live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition,” which was an inoperable
shell that misfired during a hunt years earlier. Witaschek had kept it as
a souvenir.
“One handgun holster” was found, which is perfectly legal.
“One expended round of .270 caliber ammunition,” which was a spent brass
casing.
The police uncovered “one box of Knight bullets for reloading.” These are
actually not for reloading, but are used in antique-replica, single-shot,
muzzle-loading rifles.
A successful financial adviser with no criminal history, Witaschek is now
the first known case of a citizen being prosecuted in D.C. for inoperable
ammunition.
Yesterday, a D.C. judge found Witaschek guilty of “attempted possession of
unlawful ammunition” for possessing antique replica muzzleloader bullets.
The Washington Times reported on the verdict and (somewhat bizarre)
details of the court proceedings:
Judge Robert Morin sentenced Mr. Witaschek to time served, a $50 fine and
required him to enroll with the Metropolitan Police Department’s firearm
offenders’ registry within 48 hours.
Until the final hours of the trial, both the defense and government
focused the case on whether the single 12 gauge shotgun shell that was
found in Mr. Witaschek’s D.C. home was operable. The judge, however, never
ruled on it.
In the afternoon on Wednesday, Judge Morin shook the plastic shell and
tried to listen to something inside. He said he could not hear any
gunpowder. He then asked the lawyers to open the shell to see if there was
powder inside.
(This seemed like a bizarre request since the lack of primer — not
gunpowder — would be relevant to the interoperability of the misfired
shell.)
Assistant Attorney General Peter Saba said that the government wanted to
open the shell but that, “It is dangerous to do outside a lab.”
The prosecutors and police officers left the courtroom to try to find a
lab that was open in the afternoon to bring the judge to cut the plastic
off the section that holds the pellets. When that proved not possible in
the same day, the judge decided to just rule on the bullets.
The 25 conical-shaped, .45 caliber bullets, made by Knight out of lead and
copper, sat on the judge’s desk. They do not have primer or gunpowder so
cannot be propelled. The matching .50 caliber plastic sabots were also in
the box.
The bullets caused confusion in the courtroom because D.C. residents do
not need to register antique replica firearms.
The judge repeatedly asked how the bullets could be illegal if the gun
they are used for is not. This led some to believe he was going to throw
the charge out.
But in the end, Judge Morin said:
“I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow
point. They are not musket balls.” He then ruled that Mr. Witaschek had
possessed “beyond a reasonable doubt” the metal pieces in D.C.
In his piece titled Witaschek Verdict Highlights Anti-Gun Hypocrisy, Conor
Higgins pointed out the problems with the judge’s statements:
First, ammunition is already very well classified. Being “persuaded” that
musket balls are bullets as defined by DC law is like saying that a
shotgun is a rifle, or vice versa. There are already distinctions in
place. Muzzle loading ammunition is not rifle or shotgun ammunition, it is
muzzle loading ammunition, and not subject to the same registration
requirements as rifle, pistol, or shotgun cartridges are in DC. The judge
should not have to be “persuaded” they are illegal bullets, because the
law has already done that. Secondly, the idea that they are bullets
because they are hollow point, or conical, is completely ridiculous. The
conical musket, or muzzle loading round, often called the Minié ball, has
been in use before the Civil War, the fact that the rounds in question are
hollow point is irrelevant.
Witaschek addressed the judge before sentencing:
“I’ve never been arrested in my life up until this incident,” he said, his
voice cracking with emotion. “My use of firearms is strictly recreational.
I’ve never had any criminal intent.”
The businessman asked for leniency so that he would not lose his license
to practice his financial management company.
“I run the risk of losing my job, my occupation, as a result of this
conviction,” he said. “I ask the court not to add to that burden of what’s
already been done to my life over the last two years.”
Emily Miller of The Washington Times spoke with Witaschek about the
verdict. “I’m completely outraged by it,” he said. “This is just a
continuation of the nightmare. Just to sit there. I could not believe it.
None of these people know anything about gun issues, including the judge.”
Witaschek’s attorney said they will appeal the decision.
In the meantime, a man’s life has been disrupted and his character defamed
over a box of useless bullets.
--
Barack Obama, reelected by the dumbest voters in the history of the United
States of America.
Eric Holder, racist black murdering United States Attorney General, still
has his job.
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat criminal, accessory before and after the fact to
improper vetting of Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama, a confirmed
felon using SSAN 042-68-4425, belonging to a dead man.
Obama ignored the brutal killing of an American diplomat in Benghazi, then
relieved American military officers who attempted to prevent said murder
in order to cover up his own ineptitude.
Obama continues his goal of disarming America while ObamaCare increases
insurance premiums 300% and leaves millions without health care.
Obama backed the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt prior to their removal for
failing to represent the people and constitutional violations.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
owning-antique-replica-bullets_032014
Back in January, we reported the story of Mark Witaschek, whose D.C. home
was raided by SWAT agents with a search warrant for “firearms and
ammunition … gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and
ammunition receipts.”
The raid was conducted by 30 agents in full tactical gear whose rampage
through the home caused $10,000 in damage and terrified Witaschek’s
teenaged children.
Four items were confiscated during the raid, per the warrant:
“One live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition,” which was an inoperable
shell that misfired during a hunt years earlier. Witaschek had kept it as
a souvenir.
“One handgun holster” was found, which is perfectly legal.
“One expended round of .270 caliber ammunition,” which was a spent brass
casing.
The police uncovered “one box of Knight bullets for reloading.” These are
actually not for reloading, but are used in antique-replica, single-shot,
muzzle-loading rifles.
A successful financial adviser with no criminal history, Witaschek is now
the first known case of a citizen being prosecuted in D.C. for inoperable
ammunition.
Yesterday, a D.C. judge found Witaschek guilty of “attempted possession of
unlawful ammunition” for possessing antique replica muzzleloader bullets.
The Washington Times reported on the verdict and (somewhat bizarre)
details of the court proceedings:
Judge Robert Morin sentenced Mr. Witaschek to time served, a $50 fine and
required him to enroll with the Metropolitan Police Department’s firearm
offenders’ registry within 48 hours.
Until the final hours of the trial, both the defense and government
focused the case on whether the single 12 gauge shotgun shell that was
found in Mr. Witaschek’s D.C. home was operable. The judge, however, never
ruled on it.
In the afternoon on Wednesday, Judge Morin shook the plastic shell and
tried to listen to something inside. He said he could not hear any
gunpowder. He then asked the lawyers to open the shell to see if there was
powder inside.
(This seemed like a bizarre request since the lack of primer — not
gunpowder — would be relevant to the interoperability of the misfired
shell.)
Assistant Attorney General Peter Saba said that the government wanted to
open the shell but that, “It is dangerous to do outside a lab.”
The prosecutors and police officers left the courtroom to try to find a
lab that was open in the afternoon to bring the judge to cut the plastic
off the section that holds the pellets. When that proved not possible in
the same day, the judge decided to just rule on the bullets.
The 25 conical-shaped, .45 caliber bullets, made by Knight out of lead and
copper, sat on the judge’s desk. They do not have primer or gunpowder so
cannot be propelled. The matching .50 caliber plastic sabots were also in
the box.
The bullets caused confusion in the courtroom because D.C. residents do
not need to register antique replica firearms.
The judge repeatedly asked how the bullets could be illegal if the gun
they are used for is not. This led some to believe he was going to throw
the charge out.
But in the end, Judge Morin said:
“I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow
point. They are not musket balls.” He then ruled that Mr. Witaschek had
possessed “beyond a reasonable doubt” the metal pieces in D.C.
In his piece titled Witaschek Verdict Highlights Anti-Gun Hypocrisy, Conor
Higgins pointed out the problems with the judge’s statements:
First, ammunition is already very well classified. Being “persuaded” that
musket balls are bullets as defined by DC law is like saying that a
shotgun is a rifle, or vice versa. There are already distinctions in
place. Muzzle loading ammunition is not rifle or shotgun ammunition, it is
muzzle loading ammunition, and not subject to the same registration
requirements as rifle, pistol, or shotgun cartridges are in DC. The judge
should not have to be “persuaded” they are illegal bullets, because the
law has already done that. Secondly, the idea that they are bullets
because they are hollow point, or conical, is completely ridiculous. The
conical musket, or muzzle loading round, often called the Minié ball, has
been in use before the Civil War, the fact that the rounds in question are
hollow point is irrelevant.
Witaschek addressed the judge before sentencing:
“I’ve never been arrested in my life up until this incident,” he said, his
voice cracking with emotion. “My use of firearms is strictly recreational.
I’ve never had any criminal intent.”
The businessman asked for leniency so that he would not lose his license
to practice his financial management company.
“I run the risk of losing my job, my occupation, as a result of this
conviction,” he said. “I ask the court not to add to that burden of what’s
already been done to my life over the last two years.”
Emily Miller of The Washington Times spoke with Witaschek about the
verdict. “I’m completely outraged by it,” he said. “This is just a
continuation of the nightmare. Just to sit there. I could not believe it.
None of these people know anything about gun issues, including the judge.”
Witaschek’s attorney said they will appeal the decision.
In the meantime, a man’s life has been disrupted and his character defamed
over a box of useless bullets.
--
Barack Obama, reelected by the dumbest voters in the history of the United
States of America.
Eric Holder, racist black murdering United States Attorney General, still
has his job.
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat criminal, accessory before and after the fact to
improper vetting of Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama, a confirmed
felon using SSAN 042-68-4425, belonging to a dead man.
Obama ignored the brutal killing of an American diplomat in Benghazi, then
relieved American military officers who attempted to prevent said murder
in order to cover up his own ineptitude.
Obama continues his goal of disarming America while ObamaCare increases
insurance premiums 300% and leaves millions without health care.
Obama backed the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt prior to their removal for
failing to represent the people and constitutional violations.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
MattB
Mar 29, 2014, 2:00:46 PM3/29/14
to
They are crazy. They will tell you the law they want has this intent
and then do totally stupid things like this. You can't trust them.
Warren Butler
Mar 29, 2014, 5:13:22 PM3/29/14
to
In article <jf2ej91f0ma0pbpmm...@4ax.com>
Chocolate city shits on the constitution again.
The idiots who wrote the law should have to live with their
beloved black pets for the complete term of office.
We wouldn't see stupid laws like this then.
The idiots who wrote the law should have to live with their
beloved black pets for the complete term of office.
We wouldn't see stupid laws like this then.
B. H. O.
Mar 29, 2014, 6:00:04 PM3/29/14
to
On 29 Mar 2014, "Warren Butler" <weld...@nospam.hotmail.com> posted
some news:4acdbdf841c181e4...@dizum.com:
> In article <jf2ej91f0ma0pbpmm...@4ax.com>
> MattB <Trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 17:29:05 +0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"
>> <leroys...@usurper.org> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.thedailysheeple.com/anti-gun-lunacy-in-dc-man-found-guilty
>> >-of- owning-antique-replica-bullets_032014
>> >
So who does Charles Rangel have pictures of taking it up the ass?
If anybody should be in jail, Rangel should have been there a long time
ago.
some news:4acdbdf841c181e4...@dizum.com:
> In article <jf2ej91f0ma0pbpmm...@4ax.com>
> MattB <Trdel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 17:29:05 +0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"
>> <leroys...@usurper.org> wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.thedailysheeple.com/anti-gun-lunacy-in-dc-man-found-guilty
>> >-of- owning-antique-replica-bullets_032014
>> >
If anybody should be in jail, Rangel should have been there a long time
ago.
BeamMeUpScotty
Mar 29, 2014, 8:02:33 PM3/29/14
to
>>> Let this be a lesson that gun control nuts should not be given a
>>> inch. They are crazy. They will tell you the law they want has this
>>> intent and then do totally stupid things like this. You can't trust
>>> them.
in trouble.
*ObamaCare The Big Lie*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHMgU9TAgEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY#t=25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc72edn6lI0
"If you like your plan you can keep it" -Obama-
El_Bastardo
Mar 29, 2014, 8:53:19 PM3/29/14
to
"BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@Blackhole.nebulx.com> wrote in
message news:GaJZu.19184$S85....@en-nntp-16.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>>>> Let this be a lesson that gun control nuts should not be given a
>>>> inch. They are crazy. They will tell you the law they want has this
>>>> intent and then do totally stupid things like this. You can't trust
>>>> them.
>
>
> Liberals are LIARS... anyone that believes a word they says is already
> in trouble.
Liberals lie about everything all the time.
>>>> Let this be a lesson that gun control nuts should not be given a
>>>> inch. They are crazy. They will tell you the law they want has this
>>>> intent and then do totally stupid things like this. You can't trust
>>>> them.
>
>
> Liberals are LIARS... anyone that believes a word they says is already
> in trouble.
>
> *ObamaCare The Big Lie*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHMgU9TAgEQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY#t=25
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc72edn6lI0
> "If you like your plan you can keep it" -Obama-
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 6:56:22 AM3/30/14
to
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 11:00:46 -0700, MattB <Trdel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
a gun registered in DC.
He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
the Gun Offender's Registry.
During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
ammunition.
Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
wrote:
repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
a gun registered in DC.
He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
the Gun Offender's Registry.
During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
ammunition.
Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 7:10:55 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>a gun registered in DC.
You mean the shotgun shell?
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>a gun registered in DC.
LOL
>He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
>dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
>
>He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
>the Gun Offender's Registry.
>
>During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
>muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
>ammunition.
>
> Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
>bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.”
firearms.
Liberals as a group are incredibly stupid when it comes to these
things, and should recuse themselves whenever ANY trial comes up
having to deal with firearms.
"Based on the stupid shit you post and your apalling [sic] lack of
education I'm sure your kids are dummer [sic] than sheep."
-Professor Deep Dudu
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 7:49:42 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
<KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>a gun registered in DC.
>
>You mean the shotgun shell?
>
>LOL
Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
<KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>a gun registered in DC.
>
>You mean the shotgun shell?
>
>LOL
plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
>
>>He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
>>dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
>>
>>He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
>>the Gun Offender's Registry.
>>
>>During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
>>muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
>>ammunition.
>>
>> Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
>>bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.”
>
>This is what happens when liberals like Judge Moron try to understand
>firearms.
>
>Liberals as a group are incredibly stupid when it comes to these
>things, and should recuse themselves whenever ANY trial comes up
>having to deal with firearms.
You are aware the raid and subsequent arrest arose from Witaschek’s
threats to murder his wife who told of the many illegal and
unregistered weapons at his home ?
Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
the night table.”
When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
ammunition.
Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
RogerGlover
Mar 30, 2014, 8:02:32 AM3/30/14
to
"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" wrote in message
news:h40gj95ga5bt3pgfl...@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
<KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>a gun registered in DC.
>
>You mean the shotgun shell?
>
>LOL
Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
WOOHOO!
I sure wish you could document THAT "law", you retard!
The Gov. paid street sweepers must be guilty as all hell, picking up all
the brass!
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 8:09:40 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:49:42 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
><KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>><D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>>a gun registered in DC.
>>
>>You mean the shotgun shell?
>>
>>LOL
>
>Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
>plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
>gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
That's because the law was written by Democrats who use it to
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
><KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>><D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>>a gun registered in DC.
>>
>>You mean the shotgun shell?
>>
>>LOL
>
>Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
>plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
>gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
prosecute anyone they don't like and leave alone anyone they do like.
>It's a legal matter not a technical one.
>
>You are aware the raid and subsequent arrest arose from Witaschek’s
>threats to murder his wife who told of the many illegal and
>unregistered weapons at his home ?
basement does that make it true?
>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
fucker?"
Use your head.
>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>the night table.”
do you?
>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>ammunition.
>
>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
casings ammunition.
Democrats are not normal.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 8:51:02 AM3/30/14
to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_District_of_Columbia#Ammunition
Ammunition
An individual may not possess ammunition without also possessing a
registration certificate in their name.
In DC, as in jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, any usable
constituent part of ammunition is considered ammunition. E.g. Expended
casings capable of being reloaded are "ammunition" under current DC
police interpretation.
>The Gov. paid street sweepers must be guilty as all hell, picking up all
>the brass!
liable to arrest, termination of their employment and inclusion in the
Gun Offenders Registry if , having found casings,they picked them up
and even with one if they transported them incorrectly.
There isn't just the question of legal possession.
See the Police Advisory below.
As a firearm the cartridge casing must be locked in the trunk where
nobody can access it, for example.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/warning-d.c.-cops-under-orders-to-arrest-tourists-with-empty-bullet-casings/article/2535216
Washington police are operating under orders to arrest tourists and
other non-residents traveling with spent bullet or shotgun casings, a
crime that carries a $1,000 fine, a year in jail and a criminal
record, according to a new book about the city's confusing gun laws.
"Empty shell casings are considered ammunition in Washington, D.C., so
they are illegal to possess unless you are a resident and have a gun
registration certificate,"
Under the law, live or empty brass and plastic casings must be carried
in a special container and unavailable to drivers. Having one, for
example, in a cup holder or ash tray is illegal.
She told Secrets that the police are "under orders to arrest tourists
or other legal gun owners from out of state who wouldn't think to
empty brass and plastic from their cars or pockets."
In her newly debuted book about the difficulty getting a gun in
Washington, known for tough anti-gun laws, D.C. Police provided Miller
with a copy of a recent "roll call" advisory that tells cops to
overlook spent casings in the cars and trucks of city residents who
have their gun registration certificate with them when detained,
despite the law.
The advisory gives the example of a used .45 cartridge in a SUV's cup
holder easily seen by a cop who had pulled a District resident over
for an unrelated traffic issue. "In order to comply with the law,"
said the July 2012 police advisory, "the cartridge case should be
stored so it is not accessible from the from the passenger compartment
and the driver is, in fact violating the law and could be placed under
arrest for this action."
Because the driver had a copy of his District gun license, arrest was
not recommended.
Tourists without that city license, however, don't get the same
treatment, said Miller.
She highlights the case of Army Specialist Adam Meckler who in 2011
was arrested for coming into the city from Virginia for a meeting at
the Department of Veterans' Affairs while accidentally carrying a
handful of bullets — but no gun — in his backpack. As he passed
through a magnetometer, a guard yelled "Cuff him!" and he was held for
hours, not knowing his crime.
"People looked at me like I was a terrorist," he said, calling the
incident an accident. He was prosecuted and almost lost a job because
he now has a criminal record and is on the city's gun offenders list.
"I felt like I was registering as a sex offender," he told Miller who
noted that NBC Meet the Press host David Gregory went "scot-free" for
brandishing an illegal 30-round magazine while interviewing NRA's
Wayne LaPierre in the network's D.C. studios last December.
Miller, a Washington Times editor, called the D.C. law stupid. "A
brass candlestick can do more harm than an empty brass casing. I often
have empty casings in my bags and clothes from when they fly off at
the range, or as souvenirs," she wrote.
The law covering the transport of guns, ammo, and used ammo casings
was enacted in 2009 after the Supreme Court overturned the District's
30-year gun ban in 2008.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 9:02:23 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:51:02 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>E.g. Expended
>casings capable of being reloaded are "ammunition" under current DC
>police interpretation.
More proof that Democrats should shut the fuck up when it comes to
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>E.g. Expended
>casings capable of being reloaded are "ammunition" under current DC
>police interpretation.
making gun laws.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 9:12:09 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 05:09:40 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
his sister's in VA as he claimed.
She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>
>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>fucker?"
>
>Use your head.
He kept something other than guns in the gun safe and something other
than a hand gun in the holster?
>
>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>the night table.”
>
>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>do you?
Seeing as the first search found a box of Winchester .40 caliber
ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
obvious who is lying.
>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>ammunition.
>>
>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>
>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>casings ammunition.
Now exactly what do you think might have been in that holster?
The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
<KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:49:42 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>><KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>><D...@null.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>>>a gun registered in DC.
>>>
>>>You mean the shotgun shell?
>>>
>>>LOL
>>
>>Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
>>plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
>>gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
>
>That's because the law was written by Democrats who use it to
>prosecute anyone they don't like and leave alone anyone they do like.
>
>>It's a legal matter not a technical one.
>>
>>You are aware the raid and subsequent arrest arose from Witaschek’s
>>threats to murder his wife who told of the many illegal and
>>unregistered weapons at his home ?
>
>So what? If I tell the police that you have a bomb factory in your
>basement does that make it true?
They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:49:42 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>><KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>><D...@null.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>>>repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>>>charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>>>a gun registered in DC.
>>>
>>>You mean the shotgun shell?
>>>
>>>LOL
>>
>>Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
>>plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
>>gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
>
>That's because the law was written by Democrats who use it to
>prosecute anyone they don't like and leave alone anyone they do like.
>
>>It's a legal matter not a technical one.
>>
>>You are aware the raid and subsequent arrest arose from Witaschek’s
>>threats to murder his wife who told of the many illegal and
>>unregistered weapons at his home ?
>
>So what? If I tell the police that you have a bomb factory in your
>basement does that make it true?
his sister's in VA as he claimed.
She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>
>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>fucker?"
>
>Use your head.
than a hand gun in the holster?
>
>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>the night table.”
>
>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>do you?
ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
obvious who is lying.
>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>ammunition.
>>
>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>
>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>casings ammunition.
The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 9:18:31 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of
bullets.
>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>
>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
Hardly a sign of guilt, except in the mind of some totalitarian freak.
>>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>>
>>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>>fucker?"
>>
>>Use your head.
>
>
>He kept something other than guns in the gun safe and something other
>than a hand gun in the holster?
Yet there was nothing other than the four items mentioned above.
Hmmmmmmmm.
>>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>>the night table.”
>>
>>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>>do you?
>
>
>Seeing as the first search found a box of Winchester .40 caliber
>ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
>obvious who is lying.
>>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>>ammunition.
Looks like it's you.
>>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>>
>>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>>casings ammunition.
>
>Now exactly what do you think might have been in that holster?
>The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
What gun? When are holsters illegal?
>>Democrats are not normal.
>
>
>
[crickets.wav]
>
>
>
bullets.
>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>
>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>>
>>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>>fucker?"
>>
>>Use your head.
>
>
>He kept something other than guns in the gun safe and something other
>than a hand gun in the holster?
Hmmmmmmmm.
>>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>>the night table.”
>>
>>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>>do you?
>
>
>Seeing as the first search found a box of Winchester .40 caliber
>ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
>obvious who is lying.
>>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>>ammunition.
>>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>>
>>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>>casings ammunition.
>
>Now exactly what do you think might have been in that holster?
>The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
>>Democrats are not normal.
>
>
>
[crickets.wav]
>
>
>
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 10:01:27 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
That was in the second search with a warrant.
In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much
more.
>>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>
>>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>Hardly a sign of guilt, except in the mind of some totalitarian freak.
>
>>>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>>>
>>>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>>>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>>>fucker?"
>>>
>>>Use your head.
>>
>>
>>He kept something other than guns in the gun safe and something other
>>than a hand gun in the holster?
>
>Yet there was nothing other than the four items mentioned above.
>
>Hmmmmmmmm.
>When are holsters illegal?
It was clear evidence that he kept guns there.
The guy broke the law and was given the minimum sentence.
He didn't deny it only claiming ignorance of the law.
Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
decision to prosecute not Judge Morin.
Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
Mr. Witaschek’s 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
in full tactical gear.
D.C. law requires residents to register every firearm with the police,
and only registered gun owners can possess ammunition, which includes
spent shells and casings. The maximum penalty for violating these laws
is a $1,000 fine and a year in jail.
Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s
estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a
temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her
with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without
merit.
After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs,
pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie
Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.
In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in
describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four
children in the house.
His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They
used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out
of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the
children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I
could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”
Police spokesman Gwendolyn Crump would not provide further information
on the events in this case.
The police shut down the streets for blocks and spent more than two
hours going over every inch of his house. “They tossed the place,”
said Mr. Witaschek. He provided photos that he took of his home after
the raid to document the damage, which he estimated at $10,000.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
Anyway, I asked Mr. Gest why he wanted me to write about Ms.
Landinez’s charges of the threatening phone call, especially
considering Mr. Witaschek has no criminal history.
“I’m telling you about why we are bringing charges,” the government’s
spokesman replied. “That is a major part of evidence.”
I pointed out that the prosecutors shouldn’t bring up unfounded
accusations in court.
“I can’t discuss admissibility,” Mr. Gest said. “Accusations that are
unproven in court factor into prosecution decisions.”
In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much
more.
>>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>
>>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>Hardly a sign of guilt, except in the mind of some totalitarian freak.
>
>>>>Mr. Landinez testified for the government in the ammunitions trial. In
>>>>an interview Sunday night, she told me that she stands behind her
>>>>testimony that her ex husband had firearms in the District.
>>>
>>>Ooooooh! She "stands behind it!" Well, what ELSE is she going to say?
>>>"I'm sorry I lied to get my husband in trouble because I hate the
>>>fucker?"
>>>
>>>Use your head.
>>
>>
>>He kept something other than guns in the gun safe and something other
>>than a hand gun in the holster?
>
>Yet there was nothing other than the four items mentioned above.
>
>Hmmmmmmmm.
a box of Winchester .40 caliber ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a
Colt revolver
>
>
>>>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>>>the night table.”
>>>
>>>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>>>do you?
>>
>>
>>Seeing as the first search found a box of Winchester .40 caliber
>>ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
>>obvious who is lying.
>
>>>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>>>ammunition.
>
>Looks like it's you.
>
>
>>>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>>>
>>>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>>>casings ammunition.
>>
>>Now exactly what do you think might have been in that holster?
>>The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
>
>What gun?
The hand gun his wife told the police about of course.
Colt revolver
>
>
>>>>“It’s a lie to say he never had guns in D.C. We had guns in the house
>>>>on Q Street,” she said. “I saw at least three rifles and at least two
>>>>shotguns — inside and outside the safe. And he always had a handgun on
>>>>the night table.”
>>>
>>>The estranged wife? Golly, you don't think she might have been lying,
>>>do you?
>>
>>
>>Seeing as the first search found a box of Winchester .40 caliber
>>ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a Colt revolver, it's perfectly
>>obvious who is lying.
>
>>>>When Attorney General Irvin Nathan’s prosecutors rested on Tuesday,
>>>>they established simply that Mr. Witaschek did not have a registered
>>>>gun in the city, so he violated the firearms laws by having
>>>>ammunition.
>
>Looks like it's you.
>
>
>>>>Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
>>>>didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
>>>
>>>That's because normal people don't call holsters and bullets and spent
>>>casings ammunition.
>>
>>Now exactly what do you think might have been in that holster?
>>The hand gun he normally kept on the bedside table perhaps?
>
>What gun?
>When are holsters illegal?
It was clear evidence that he kept guns there.
The guy broke the law and was given the minimum sentence.
He didn't deny it only claiming ignorance of the law.
Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
decision to prosecute not Judge Morin.
Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
Mr. Witaschek’s 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
in full tactical gear.
D.C. law requires residents to register every firearm with the police,
and only registered gun owners can possess ammunition, which includes
spent shells and casings. The maximum penalty for violating these laws
is a $1,000 fine and a year in jail.
Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s
estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a
temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her
with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without
merit.
After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs,
pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie
Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.
In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in
describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four
children in the house.
His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They
used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out
of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the
children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I
could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”
Police spokesman Gwendolyn Crump would not provide further information
on the events in this case.
The police shut down the streets for blocks and spent more than two
hours going over every inch of his house. “They tossed the place,”
said Mr. Witaschek. He provided photos that he took of his home after
the raid to document the damage, which he estimated at $10,000.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
Anyway, I asked Mr. Gest why he wanted me to write about Ms.
Landinez’s charges of the threatening phone call, especially
considering Mr. Witaschek has no criminal history.
“I’m telling you about why we are bringing charges,” the government’s
spokesman replied. “That is a major part of evidence.”
I pointed out that the prosecutors shouldn’t bring up unfounded
accusations in court.
“I can’t discuss admissibility,” Mr. Gest said. “Accusations that are
unproven in court factor into prosecution decisions.”
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 10:12:05 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:01:27 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Try and keep up.
On Friday, just two days after his conviction of attempted possession
of unlawful ammunition, Mark Witaschek went to a Washington, D.C.,
police station to register in the city's Gun Offenders Registry. The
act was part of a sentence meted out after Witaschek lost his two-year
legal battle that began when police searched his home and found an
inert shotgun shell, a spent shell casing and a box of muzzle-loader
bullets.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/former-dc-resident-found-guilty-for-violating-city-gun-laws-for-owning-fake/
>>>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>>>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>>
>>>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>>
>>Hardly a sign of guilt, except in the mind of some totalitarian freak.
>
>
>
[crickets.wav]
>
>
>
Yeah, just as I thought.
>>Hmmmmmmmm.
>
>a box of Winchester .40 caliber ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a
>Colt revolver
See above and read for comprehension.
>>When are holsters illegal?
>
>It was clear evidence that he kept guns there.
Um, no. Holsters are not evidence of anything.
>The guy broke the law and was given the minimum sentence.
>He didn't deny it only claiming ignorance of the law.
Like many Americans, he couldn't believe that Democrats could write
such a stupid law. They are learning......
>Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
>decision to prosecute
What the fuck do you think we've been doing, you dumb ass?
>not Judge Morin.
>Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
He was supposed to have the good sense to dismiss the case.
On Friday, just two days after his conviction of attempted possession
of unlawful ammunition, Mark Witaschek went to a Washington, D.C.,
police station to register in the city's Gun Offenders Registry. The
act was part of a sentence meted out after Witaschek lost his two-year
legal battle that began when police searched his home and found an
inert shotgun shell, a spent shell casing and a box of muzzle-loader
bullets.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/former-dc-resident-found-guilty-for-violating-city-gun-laws-for-owning-fake/
>>>She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>>>investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>>
>>>Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>>
>>Hardly a sign of guilt, except in the mind of some totalitarian freak.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yeah, just as I thought.
>>Hmmmmmmmm.
>
>a box of Winchester .40 caliber ammunition, a gun-cleaning kit and a
>Colt revolver
>>When are holsters illegal?
>
>It was clear evidence that he kept guns there.
>The guy broke the law and was given the minimum sentence.
>He didn't deny it only claiming ignorance of the law.
such a stupid law. They are learning......
>Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
>decision to prosecute
>not Judge Morin.
>Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 10:33:51 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:12:05 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Not every jurisdiction allows gun nuts to strut in the streets with
assault weapons,threaten women with firearms or murder teenagers,shrug
and walk away.
DC isn't Florida.
Public safety is taken much more seriously
>
>>Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
>>decision to prosecute
>
>What the fuck do you think we've been doing, you dumb ass?
Talking about the judge being a moron, saying Witaschek didn't have
firearms, saying his wife is a liar, the law shouldn't be the law,
ammunition isn't a firearm.
He got off lightly in the end
>>not Judge Morin.
>>Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
>
>He was supposed to have the good sense to dismiss the case.
Don't be silly,he was guilty and didn't deny it.
assault weapons,threaten women with firearms or murder teenagers,shrug
and walk away.
DC isn't Florida.
Public safety is taken much more seriously
>
>>Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
>>decision to prosecute
>
>What the fuck do you think we've been doing, you dumb ass?
firearms, saying his wife is a liar, the law shouldn't be the law,
ammunition isn't a firearm.
He got off lightly in the end
>>not Judge Morin.
>>Was he supposed to pretend he wasn't guilty?
>
>He was supposed to have the good sense to dismiss the case.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 10:51:30 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:12:05 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
You need to try taking your own advice.
>On Friday, just two days after his conviction of attempted possession
>of unlawful ammunition, Mark Witaschek went to a Washington, D.C.,
>police station to register in the city's Gun Offenders Registry. The
>act was part of a sentence meted out after Witaschek lost his two-year
>legal battle that began when police searched his home and found an
>inert shotgun shell, a spent shell casing and a box of muzzle-loader
>bullets.
>http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/former-dc-resident-found-guilty-for-violating-city-gun-laws-for-owning-fake/
As usual, Fox News is quite lazy and wrong.
That's by no means when it started.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
to hide.
In September 2012, the attorney general offered Mr. Witaschek a deal
to plead guilty to one charge of unlawful possession of ammunition
with a penalty of a year of probation, a $500 fine and a contribution
to a victims’ fund.
Mr. Witaschek turned down the offer. “It’s the principle,” he told me.
To increase the pressure a year later, Mr. Nathan tacked on an
additional charge in August of illegal ammunition from the first,
warrantless search.
>On Friday, just two days after his conviction of attempted possession
>of unlawful ammunition, Mark Witaschek went to a Washington, D.C.,
>police station to register in the city's Gun Offenders Registry. The
>act was part of a sentence meted out after Witaschek lost his two-year
>legal battle that began when police searched his home and found an
>inert shotgun shell, a spent shell casing and a box of muzzle-loader
>bullets.
>http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/former-dc-resident-found-guilty-for-violating-city-gun-laws-for-owning-fake/
That's by no means when it started.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
to hide.
In September 2012, the attorney general offered Mr. Witaschek a deal
to plead guilty to one charge of unlawful possession of ammunition
with a penalty of a year of probation, a $500 fine and a contribution
to a victims’ fund.
Mr. Witaschek turned down the offer. “It’s the principle,” he told me.
To increase the pressure a year later, Mr. Nathan tacked on an
additional charge in August of illegal ammunition from the first,
warrantless search.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 11:58:43 AM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:33:51 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>>Like many Americans, he couldn't believe that Democrats could write
>>such a stupid law. They are learning......
>
>Not every jurisdiction allows gun nuts to strut in the streets with
>assault weapons,threaten women with firearms or murder teenagers,shrug
>and walk away.
He wasn't "strutting" in the streets and we're not talking about
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>>Like many Americans, he couldn't believe that Democrats could write
>>such a stupid law. They are learning......
>
>Not every jurisdiction allows gun nuts to strut in the streets with
>assault weapons,threaten women with firearms or murder teenagers,shrug
>and walk away.
"assault weapons" or killing anyone.
See what I mean?
Democrats work on pure emotion. They don't think.
>>>Any criticism should be of the heavy handed police approach or the
>>>decision to prosecute
>>
>>What the fuck do you think we've been doing, you dumb ass?
>
>Talking about the judge being a moron
> saying Witaschek didn't have firearms
he was arrested for having a holster, a shotgun shell, a spent rifle
casing, and a box of lead bullets for a antique replica rifle.
>, saying his wife is a liar, the law shouldn't be the law,
>ammunition isn't a firearm.
>He got off lightly in the end
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 12:00:03 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:51:30 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Irrelevant.
Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>of unlawful ammunition,
See? even YOU can't abide by Democrat stupidity can you?
"POINT PROVEN!"
Lee Harrison 1957-2012, RIP
Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>of unlawful ammunition,
"POINT PROVEN!"
Lee Harrison 1957-2012, RIP
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 1:22:33 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 09:00:03 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
That there were two searches is highly relevant.
The judge certainly thought so
>
>Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>
>>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>>of unlawful ammunition,
The prosecutor reduced the charge to attempted possession
Stupidity certainly wasn't the motive.
>See? even YOU can't abide by Democrat stupidity can you?
He was guilty and lucky not to go to prison.
The judge certainly thought so
>
>Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>
>>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>>of unlawful ammunition,
Stupidity certainly wasn't the motive.
>See? even YOU can't abide by Democrat stupidity can you?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 1:27:07 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 10:22:33 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
And that's why he's an idiot.
>>Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>>
>>>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>>>of unlawful ammunition,
>
>The prosecutor reduced the charge to attempted possession
>Stupidity certainly wasn't the motive.
Say, you CAN read. Amazing.
>>See? even YOU can't abide by Democrat stupidity can you?
>
>He was guilty and lucky not to go to prison.
Irrelevant to this discussion. He should never have been searched, let
alone tried, and you know it.
>>Once more, because you're terminally stupid......
>>
>>>> his conviction of attempted possession
>>>>of unlawful ammunition,
>
>The prosecutor reduced the charge to attempted possession
>Stupidity certainly wasn't the motive.
>>See? even YOU can't abide by Democrat stupidity can you?
>
>He was guilty and lucky not to go to prison.
alone tried, and you know it.
MattB
Mar 30, 2014, 2:00:22 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
law.
What my point is that this shows you can't trust Liberals because they
might say the intent of the law is such and such and then we see this
type of stupidity click in.
Like with Background checks this law show also that attaching gun
registration to it can have grave consequences in future laws. Also
why is it needed if the purpose of the Background check is only to
prevent criminals and the mentally ill from buying a weapon?
I might approve of Background checks without the registration
requirement with it never.
>
>He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
>dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
>
>He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
>the Gun Offender's Registry.
>
>During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
>muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
>ammunition.
>
> Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
>bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.” He then
>ruled that Mr. Witaschek had possessed “beyond a reasonable doubt”
Judge followed the letter of a poorly written or agenda written law.
>He is free ,not held in prison pending his appeal and was
>dealt with by Judge Morin in a fair and sympathetic manner.
>
>He received a lenient minimal sentence of time served and inclusion in
>the Gun Offender's Registry.
>
>During lunch, the government came up with a list from ATF of types of
>muzzle loader rifles that could be converted to use rimfire
>ammunition.
>
> Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like
>bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.” He then
>ruled that Mr. Witaschek had possessed “beyond a reasonable doubt”
That is why Americans should oppose any further gun control laws until
such laws are written with built in limitations of expanding it later.
Politicians lie.
MattB
Mar 30, 2014, 2:05:30 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
What needs to be done is those that voted for this law be targeted for
removal like what happened in Colorado. Last thing we need is these
freaks and liars staying in office.
Purpose of these laws was to prevent mass shootings. We see that
wasn't the point at all. D.C. has a high crime rate why aren't they
going after those people? Think we know.
Give to the NRA.
removal like what happened in Colorado. Last thing we need is these
freaks and liars staying in office.
Purpose of these laws was to prevent mass shootings. We see that
wasn't the point at all. D.C. has a high crime rate why aren't they
going after those people? Think we know.
Give to the NRA.
max headroom
Mar 30, 2014, 2:32:02 PM3/30/14
to
GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:eb2gj95bvq7ugvs5a...@4ax.com:
> http://washingtonexaminer.com/warning-d.c.-cops-under-orders-to-arrest-tourists-with-empty-bullet-casings/article/2535216
> Washington police are operating under orders to arrest tourists and
> other non-residents traveling with spent bullet or shotgun casings, a
> crime that carries a $1,000 fine, a year in jail and a criminal
> record, according to a new book about the city's confusing gun laws.
> "Empty shell casings are considered ammunition in Washington, D.C., so
> they are illegal to possess unless you are a resident and have a gun
> registration certificate,"
George Washington would be so proud of the city that bears his name.
> http://washingtonexaminer.com/warning-d.c.-cops-under-orders-to-arrest-tourists-with-empty-bullet-casings/article/2535216
> Washington police are operating under orders to arrest tourists and
> other non-residents traveling with spent bullet or shotgun casings, a
> crime that carries a $1,000 fine, a year in jail and a criminal
> record, according to a new book about the city's confusing gun laws.
> "Empty shell casings are considered ammunition in Washington, D.C., so
> they are illegal to possess unless you are a resident and have a gun
> registration certificate,"
> She highlights the case of Army Specialist Adam Meckler who in 2011
> was arrested for coming into the city from Virginia for a meeting at
> the Department of Veterans' Affairs while accidentally carrying a
> handful of bullets - but no gun - in his backpack. As he passed
> was arrested for coming into the city from Virginia for a meeting at
> the Department of Veterans' Affairs while accidentally carrying a
> through a magnetometer, a guard yelled "Cuff him!" and he was held for
> hours, not knowing his crime.
> "People looked at me like I was a terrorist," he said, calling the
> incident an accident. He was prosecuted and almost lost a job because
> he now has a criminal record and is on the city's gun offenders list.
> "I felt like I was registering as a sex offender," he told Miller who
> noted that NBC Meet the Press host David Gregory went "scot-free" for
> brandishing an illegal 30-round magazine while interviewing NRA's
> Wayne LaPierre in the network's D.C. studios last December....
> hours, not knowing his crime.
> "People looked at me like I was a terrorist," he said, calling the
> incident an accident. He was prosecuted and almost lost a job because
> he now has a criminal record and is on the city's gun offenders list.
> "I felt like I was registering as a sex offender," he told Miller who
> noted that NBC Meet the Press host David Gregory went "scot-free" for
> brandishing an illegal 30-round magazine while interviewing NRA's
George Washington would be so proud of the city that bears his name.
benj
Mar 30, 2014, 3:27:13 PM3/30/14
to
On 03/30/2014 07:49 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>> repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>> charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>> a gun registered in DC.
>>
>> You mean the shotgun shell?
>>
>> LOL
>
> Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
> plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
> gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:10:55 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:56:22 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You might not like the law, you might even want to work for it's
>>> repeal but , at the end of the day, Witaschek was clearly guilty as
>>> charged of *attempting* to possess illegal ammunition without having
>>> a gun registered in DC.
>>
>> You mean the shotgun shell?
>>
>> LOL
>
> Of course, even if the judge rules that it is inoperable, an empty
> plastic shells is illegal in D.C. for anyone who is not a registered
> gun owner. The same goes for spent casings
> It's a legal matter not a technical one.
> Mr. Witaschek has never denied these charges, but has said that he
> didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
So explain to us all GOPer, how you as a 1960's civil rights freedom
> didn’t know that inoperable ammunition was illegal.
fighter ready to save the world from slavery, can wink at laws that make
"possession" of various materials illegal and a crime. And we are not
talking about dangerous objects, but just bits of metal and plastic?
Don't you, as a female black liberal find that more than just a little
bit anti-freedom? What if I slip a fired .22 round into your purse? And
you get caught in "possession" of it? No argument. You are GUILTY! How
it got there is irrelevant. What if it wasn't an unfired shell at all
but just a chunk of brass rod? You know a person with a bit of kit could
turn that into dangerous ammunition. So is something that cannot be
fired "ammunition"? A reasonable person would say no, but then this is
LibThink so that whatever fantasy that is invented becomes truth.
GOPer, do you understand that nearly all men are walking around in
possession of "rape tools"? Isn't that a scary thought for all liberated
women? Shouldn't you be trying to pass a law to make that a crime?
Does a ban on ammunition seem like an "infringement" on the right to
keep an bear arms to you? Didn't think so. How about anything that even
LOOKS as if it has something to do with firearms (the way they do in the
Yoo Kay)? Ah. I see. Firearm-related shaped objects can induce
emotional responses such as libs getting scared and therefore need to be
made illegal even though they aren't dangerous because life is all about
emotion and feelings! Right?
Libs! <sigh>
benj
Mar 30, 2014, 3:39:16 PM3/30/14
to
On 03/30/2014 08:51 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> The retardedness is clearly entirely yours.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_District_of_Columbia#Ammunition
>
> Ammunition
>
> An individual may not possess ammunition without also possessing a
> registration certificate in their name.
>
> In DC, as in jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, any usable
> constituent part of ammunition is considered ammunition. E.g. Expended
> casings capable of being reloaded are "ammunition" under current DC
> police interpretation.
>
>
>> The Gov. paid street sweepers must be guilty as all hell, picking up all
>> the brass!
>
>
> City employees without a registration certificate certainly would be
> liable to arrest, termination of their employment and inclusion in the
> Gun Offenders Registry if , having found casings,they picked them up
> and even with one if they transported them incorrectly.
>
> There isn't just the question of legal possession.
>
> See the Police Advisory below.
Snip hideous police state decree.
> The retardedness is clearly entirely yours.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_District_of_Columbia#Ammunition
>
> Ammunition
>
> An individual may not possess ammunition without also possessing a
> registration certificate in their name.
>
> In DC, as in jurisdictions such as Massachusetts, any usable
> constituent part of ammunition is considered ammunition. E.g. Expended
> casings capable of being reloaded are "ammunition" under current DC
> police interpretation.
>
>
>> The Gov. paid street sweepers must be guilty as all hell, picking up all
>> the brass!
>
>
> City employees without a registration certificate certainly would be
> liable to arrest, termination of their employment and inclusion in the
> Gun Offenders Registry if , having found casings,they picked them up
> and even with one if they transported them incorrectly.
>
> There isn't just the question of legal possession.
>
> See the Police Advisory below.
What I want to know GOPer, is if you support laws written like this? As
a liberal interested in eliminating the last vestiges of slavery and Jim
Crow, do laws that essentially allow people posing no danger to society
or even criminal intent in most cases to be gathered up and turned into
criminals at the whim of bureaucratic interpretation seem a right and
proper expression of freedom?
Do you really support this kind of thing. I think your ancestors have a
pretty good memory of where these kind of laws go. Or is it that you
really support the idea of slavery, but only differ as to WHICH people
should be the masters and which the slaves? Tell us.
This is really all about keeping those "uppity" conservatives "in their
place", Right?
benj
Mar 30, 2014, 3:45:33 PM3/30/14
to
On 03/30/2014 09:12 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>
> She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
> investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>
> Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
Who needs a "sign"? You as a lib can simply use your superpowers to
> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>
> She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
> investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>
> Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
tell if a person is guilty or not. I take it that you as a liberal are
advocating that police be allowed to search any house they choose
without probable cause. And anyone who resists is obviously guilty with
something to hide.
So in your lib mind anyone who chooses to exercise a right should
immediately come under police suspicion of being guilty. We will be
right over to search your house and office. You wouldn't want to seem
guilty would you?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 4:13:14 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:45:33 -0400, benj <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 03/30/2014 09:12 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
>
>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>
>> She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>> investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>
>> Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>Who needs a "sign"? You as a lib can simply use your superpowers to
>tell if a person is guilty or not. I take it that you as a liberal are
>advocating that police be allowed to search any house they choose
>without probable cause. And anyone who resists is obviously guilty with
>something to hide.
Apparently you have to show a "sign" of innocence.
>On 03/30/2014 09:12 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
>
>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>
>> She wouldn't even let the police in when they came to her house to
>> investigate. They had to get a subpoena.
>>
>> Hardly a sign of innocence is it?
>
>Who needs a "sign"? You as a lib can simply use your superpowers to
>tell if a person is guilty or not. I take it that you as a liberal are
>advocating that police be allowed to search any house they choose
>without probable cause. And anyone who resists is obviously guilty with
>something to hide.
Is it any wonder why people despise these bastards?
>So in your lib mind anyone who chooses to exercise a right should
>immediately come under police suspicion of being guilty. We will be
>right over to search your house and office. You wouldn't want to seem
>guilty would you?
max headroom
Mar 30, 2014, 4:18:00 PM3/30/14
to
GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
> That was in the second search with a warrant.
> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
He "allowed?"
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>
> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
> in full tactical gear.
A minor daughter admitted a squad of goons without a warrent. Is this what our Founding Fathers
fought and died for?
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
> That was in the second search with a warrant.
He "allowed?"
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>
> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
> in full tactical gear.
fought and died for?
BeamMeUpScotty
Mar 30, 2014, 5:48:06 PM3/30/14
to
would burn it himself this time....
MattB
Mar 30, 2014, 5:55:11 PM3/30/14
to
against.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 8:28:16 PM3/30/14
to
this whole sorry saga would likely never have occurred.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 8:32:01 PM3/30/14
to
>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>
>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>
>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>
>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>
>He "allowed?"
>
>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>
>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>> in full tactical gear.
That was the second search,conducted after the judge thought the
>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>
>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>
>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>
>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>
>He "allowed?"
>
>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>
>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>> in full tactical gear.
one inadmissible without a warrant.
>A minor daughter admitted a squad of goons without a warrent. Is this what our Founding Fathers
>fought and died for?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 8:32:17 PM3/30/14
to
That's all.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Mar 30, 2014, 8:34:26 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:32:01 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0700, "max headroom"
><maxhe...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>
>>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>>
>>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>>
>>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>>
>>He "allowed?"
>>
>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>>
>>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>>> in full tactical gear.
>
>That was the second search,conducted after the judge thought the
>one inadmissible without a warrant.
An illegal search? Then nothing was found.
<D...@null.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0700, "max headroom"
><maxhe...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>
>>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>>
>>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>>
>>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>>
>>He "allowed?"
>>
>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>>
>>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>>> in full tactical gear.
>
>That was the second search,conducted after the judge thought the
>one inadmissible without a warrant.
>>A minor daughter admitted a squad of goons without a warrent. Is this what our Founding Fathers
>>fought and died for?
>
>They had a warrant for that one.
rest was liberal sleight of hand.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 30, 2014, 8:54:12 PM3/30/14
to
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:34:26 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
Witaschek gave permission as he thought he was clean and claimed not
to know the ammunition was illegal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
to hide.
After about an hour and a half, the police found one box of Winchester
.40 caliber ammunition
>
<KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:32:01 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0700, "max headroom"
>><maxhe...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>>
>>>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>>>
>>>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>>>
>>>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>>>
>>>He "allowed?"
>>>
>>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>>>> in full tactical gear.
>>
>>That was the second search,conducted after the judge thought the
>>one inadmissible without a warrant.
>
>An illegal search? Then nothing was found.
It wasn't illegal.
>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:32:01 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
><D...@null.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 13:18:00 -0700, "max headroom"
>><maxhe...@localnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <D...@null.net> wrote in news:cs6gj9h78ml8qqmn5...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:18:31 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
>>>> <KlausScha...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 06:12:09 -0700, GOP_Decline_and_Fall
>>>>> <D...@null.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> They found plenty of evidence he kept guns in his house rather than at
>>>>>> his sister's in VA as he claimed.
>>>
>>>>> They found one spent shell, a shotgun shell, a holster, and a box of bullets.
>>>
>>>> That was in the second search with a warrant.
>>>
>>>> In the first one which he allowed without a warrant, they found much more....
>>>
>>>He "allowed?"
>>>
>>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/?page=all#pagebreak
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Witaschek's 14-year-old daughter let inside some 30 armed officers
>>>> in full tactical gear.
>>
>>That was the second search,conducted after the judge thought the
>>one inadmissible without a warrant.
>
>An illegal search? Then nothing was found.
Witaschek gave permission as he thought he was clean and claimed not
to know the ammunition was illegal.
>
>>>A minor daughter admitted a squad of goons without a warrent. Is this what our Founding Fathers
>>>fought and died for?
>>
>>They had a warrant for that one.
>
>And they found a shotgun shell. That's the only ammo there was. The
>rest was liberal sleight of hand.
Incorrect.
>>>A minor daughter admitted a squad of goons without a warrent. Is this what our Founding Fathers
>>>fought and died for?
>>
>>They had a warrant for that one.
>
>And they found a shotgun shell. That's the only ammo there was. The
>rest was liberal sleight of hand.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
to hide.
.40 caliber ammunition
>
benj
Mar 31, 2014, 1:07:33 AM3/31/14
to
On 03/30/2014 08:54 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
>
> This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
> earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
> access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
> to hide.
Isn't the a beauty of "possession" laws, GOPer? It really doesn't matter
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
>
> This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
> earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
> access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
> to hide.
how it got there so long as it's "found" in your "possession".
I wonder how much contraband there is in your house? I'm sure you've
got nothing to hide so how about allowing a search? You wouldn't want to
appear GUILTY would you?
I consider it "progress" that you are only reporting these stories
rather than advocating this police position. There may be hope for you
yet, but I doubt it.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Mar 31, 2014, 2:40:11 AM3/31/14
to
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:07:33 -0400, benj <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 03/30/2014 08:54 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
>
>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
>>
>> This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
>> earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
>> access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
>> to hide.
>
>Isn't the a beauty of "possession" laws, GOPer? It really doesn't matter
>how it got there so long as it's "found" in your "possession".
ATTEMPTED possession seems to take it to a whole new level of
>On 03/30/2014 08:54 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
>
>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/?page=all
>>
>> This was the second police search of his home. Exactly one month
>> earlier, Mr. Witaschek allowed members of the “Gun Recovery Unit”
>> access to search without a warrant because he thought he had nothing
>> to hide.
>
>Isn't the a beauty of "possession" laws, GOPer? It really doesn't matter
>how it got there so long as it's "found" in your "possession".
potential offences.
>I wonder how much contraband there is in your house? I'm sure you've
>got nothing to hide so how about allowing a search? You wouldn't want to
>appear GUILTY would you?
>I consider it "progress" that you are only reporting these stories
>rather than advocating this police position. There may be hope for you
>yet, but I doubt it.
There is little point shooting the weather reporter because it's
raining.
IMHO thirty armed and militarized officers was grotesquely heavy
handed without first ascertaining whether or not there was a dangerous
armed shooter in the building.
I am not too sure whether a search warrant that was unopposed
covers breaking down a bathroom door and dragging out a naked
teenager.
Where were CPS and WTF were they thinking?
If the report is correct, they were clearly expecting armed resistance
and their procedure was only appropriate if shots had been fired,which
was clearly far from the case.
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:50:29 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/31/2014 12:40 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> If the report is correct, they were clearly expecting armed resistance
Sheila, I think it's time to chronicle what your game plan is out here.
> If the report is correct, they were clearly expecting armed resistance
1.) You're a paid DNC hack troll.
2.) Your mission statement is to enter various threads and then ignite
heated debate.
3.) Your tactic is to at first argue topically, but then locate a point
which is unsupportable.
4.) Having identified said point you are charged to see if by supporting
it you can anger conservative posters.
5.) If this succeeds, you are charged to argue ad absurdism until said
conservative posters curse you out for your evident and endless stupidity.
6.) At that point you are charged with demonizing your detractors for
their anger and painting them as representative of Republicans at large.
7.) When the topic becomes too lengthy or the insults dominate, you are
charged with slinking away for a time, even weeks, before returning to
ignite another shit-storm with your support of the unsupportable.
That is who and what you are Sheila, and it is the reason you went to
lengths of absurdity heretofore unseen in trying to maintain that a TV
has no moving parts.
Your mission is now identified for all and thereby corrupted.
What will your DNC handlers task you with next?
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:50:46 AM3/31/14
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On 3/30/2014 6:54 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> Incorrect.
> Incorrect.
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:51:01 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 6:32 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> They had a warrant
> They had a warrant
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:51:17 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 6:28 PM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> Had she shown the weapons
> Had she shown the weapons
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:51:36 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 11:22 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> He was guilty a
> He was guilty a
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:51:57 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 8:51 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> As usual, Fox News
> As usual, Fox News
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:52:09 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 8:33 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> DC isn't Florida.
> DC isn't Florida.
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:52:27 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 8:01 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> a box of Winchester
> a box of Winchester
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:52:41 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 7:12 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> He kept something other than guns
> He kept something other than guns
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:52:56 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 6:51 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> See the Police Advisory
> See the Police Advisory
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:53:08 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 5:49 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> Of course, even if the judge rules
> Of course, even if the judge rules
starburst
Mar 31, 2014, 11:53:24 AM3/31/14
to
On 3/30/2014 4:56 AM, GOP_Decline_and_Fall wrote:
> He is free ,
> He is free ,
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