Prof M.M.Ansari to be appointed next CIC for another 3 years

[sroy 1947]

Dear Friends

As NDTV has reported, the GoI has decided Prof M.M.Ansari will be
reappointed as Chief Information Commissioner after CIC A.N.Tiwari
retires on 18.12.2010.

Prof Ansari will hold office as C'IC for a period of 3 years till he attains
the age of 65 years.

[C J Karira]

So, that is how the fued between ANT and MAA was settled.

RTIwanted

[MANOJ KAMRA]

Dear Sarbajit Royji,     Prof M.M.Ansari has uploaded his  DoB: 29-07-1952 just 3 months back on cic website.So he can work upto 2017 upto attaining 65 years age.  --- On Mon, 10/4/10, sroy 1947 <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Raminder Singh]

Can somebody explain how this is possible legally speaking ?
Raminder

[captainjohann]

Hi, Normally it is done by giving an affadavit in front of notary public and then getting that date of birth entered in passport or some other document accepted by Government. I remember a case of an IAS /IPS officer who used this method and when some one exposed that by this method he should have passed his matriculation at the age of 9 and degree at the age of 13!!!!   Every government servant has to certify his date of birth at the time of enrolment and retirement but this scam happens in the case of favoured few. "Greatness lies not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall" Captain Johann samuhanand,  BANGALORE  INDIA 91 80  42023252    www.captainjohann.blogspot.com   --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Raminder Singh <ramisi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[wajahat]

I'd suggest that you might rely on what the law has to say, notably Sec 13 (2), rather than NDTV.

Wajahat

----- Original Message -----
From: C J Karira <cjka...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, October 4, 2010 11:16 pm
Subject: Re: [RTI INDIA]{gmail} Prof M.M.Ansari to be appointed next CIC for another 3 years
To: rti_...@googlegroups.com

[Amitabh Thakur]

So correctly said sir Amitabh Thakur, IIM Lucknow --- On Tue, 10/5/10, wajahat <whabi...@nic.in> wrote:

[Sidharth Misra]

How come Sri wajahat still using the official email ID assigned to
him by NIC.

Sidharth

[Abhimanyu]

 

at least he is replying. what we can do if he decides not to reply ??

[C J Karira]

My experience is that he always replies – at least to my emails.

Sometimes, when the issue was controversial…it needed a reminder.

But he always replied.

 

RTiwanted

 

---

From: rti_...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rti_...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Abhimanyu
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 6:23 PM
To: rti_...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RTI INDIA]{gmail} Prof M.M.Ansari to be appointed next CIC for another 3 years

 

 

at least he is replying. what we can do if he decides not to reply ??

[sroy1947]

Sir,

"13(2) Every Information Commissioner shall hold office for a term of
five years from the date on which he enters upon his office or till he
attains the age of sixty-five years, whichever is earlier, and shall
not be eligible for reappointment as such Information Commissioner:

Provided that every Information Commissioner shall, on vacating his
office under this sub-section be eligible for appointment as the Chief
Information Commissioner in the manner specified in sub-section (3) of
section 12:

Provided further that where the Information Commissioner is appointed
as the Chief Information Commissioner, his term of office shall not be
more than five years in aggregate as the Information Commissioner and
the Chief Information Commissioner.
:
:
13(4) The Chief Information Commissioner or an Information
Commissioner may, at any time, by writing under his hand addressed to
the President, resign from his office:

Provided that the Chief Information Commissioner or an Information
Commissioner may be removed in the manner specified under section 14."

Comment:
So If Prof Ansari were to resign tomorrow with immediate effect (ie.
like Ms Omita Paul and unlike yourself), then the restriction of 13(2)
would not be applicable to him (as his vacation is not u/s 13.2) and
he could be appointed afresh as C'IC till he attains 65 years as his
eminence for the position is undeniable.

Sarbajit

On Oct 5, 10:17 am, wajahat <whabibul...@nic.in> wrote:
> I'd suggest that you might rely on what the law has to say, notably Sec 13 (2), rather than NDTV.
> Wajahat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: C J Karira <cjkar...@gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, October 4, 2010 11:16 pm
> Subject: Re: [RTI INDIA]{gmail} Prof M.M.Ansari to be appointed next CIC for another 3 years
> To: rti_...@googlegroups.com
>
> So, that is how the fued between ANT and MAA was settled.
>
> RTIwanted
>

[C J Karira]

Mr Sarbajit,

You should have been a Babu !

RTIwanted

-----Original Message-----
From: rti_...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rti_...@googlegroups.com] On

[C J Karira]

Because the World Bank still hasn't allotted him another official one !
(LOL)

-----Original Message-----
From: rti_...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rti_...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Sidharth Misra
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:35 PM
To: rti_...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RTI INDIA]{gmail} Prof M.M.Ansari to be appointed next CIC for
another 3 years

[Abhimanyu]

sidhrath sie u r right

[Manoj Kamra]

Dear sh.Sarbajit Roy ji and Sh Karira ji,

 

    Is there any provision of second innings for IC as per act, aggregate period (i/c as cic) can not exceed 5 years. Under what circumstances , it can be increased and to what extent. Seven years are needed for him to attain 65 years. So india will have to bear him seven more years.

[sroy1947]

Dear Manoj

Please read section 13 carefully

1) 13.1 distinguishes a CIC from an IC. A CIC is NOT an IC.

2) "Every Information Commissioner .. and shall not be eligible for

reappointment as such Information Commissioner:"

NB: "such". It is clear that an IC cannot be reappointed as an IC

3) Section 13 does not place any bar on an IC being appointed and/or
elevated to CIC. In fact 13.2 makes it abundantly clear that an IC can
become a CIC if he were to:"vacate office" either by achieving the age
of 65 or serving 5 years. The clause as it stands can never be given
effect to, because both the trigger events for vacation absolutely bar
an IC from subsequently becoming a CIC as the law stands..

4) The key words in the second provision are "provided further". The
"further" is obviously further to the first proviso which can never
come into effect. So the second further proviso is equally
meaningless.

5) So having established A) that an IC CAN become a CIC AND B) that an
IC to become CIC must VACATE his office by some means OTHER THAN that
under subsection 13(2), the prudent option for Mr Ansari (assuming
that he does not have some Governorship like J&K lined up) would be to
resign under sub-section 13(4) a few days in advance with immediate
effect - preferably directly to Madame President and not via the PMO
route.

Sarbajit

On Oct 5, 9:14 pm, Manoj Kamra <manojka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear sh.Sarbajit Roy ji and Sh Karira ji,
>
> Is there any provision of second innings for IC as per act, aggregate
> period (i/c as cic) can not exceed 5 years. Under what circumstances , it
> can be increased and to what extent. Seven years are needed for him to
> attain 65 years. So india will have to bear him seven more years.
>

[wajahat]

To answer the question this is my personal ID which I brought with me to CIC. It was paid for while I was in CIC, but I have now deposited the security to continue at my residence

Wajahat

----- Original Message -----

From: C J Karira <cjka...@gmail.com>

[wajahat]

I'd suggest application of logic, not surmise

[sroy1947]

Sir,

The catena of your decisions as CIC amply demonstrate that you rarely
practiced what you now preach.

Sarbajit

[Abhimanyu]

fair enough sir .

[wajahat]

A good one!

[Abhimanyu]

dear members .

 

dont forget honorable wajahat sir is a common citizen like you and me now.

now he has full right to go by logic .

[Vijay]

There is a doubt:
Section 13(2) reads as follows:

"(2) Every Information Commissioner shall hold office for a term of
five years from the date on which he enters upon his office or till he
attains the age of sixty-five years, whichever is earlier, and shall
not be eligible for reappointment as such Information Commissioner:"

Is any IC eligible for reappointment if he resigns on his own? Please
clarify.

> > the age of 65 years.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[sroy1947]

Dear Vijay

Do you want me to reply to you in your capacity as
an RTI activist (who is presumed to be an ignorant duffer) or
as an advocate of the Bombay High Court (who is presumed
to know the law) ?

In any case, your query has already been addressed by me
& comprehensively in previous replies of this thread.

Sarbajit

[VijayBahadur Singh]

Sarbajit

 

An interpretation from an eminent legal brain like you is wanted irrespective of whatever term you use in your post, as that is beyond my control and may be your style of addressing. 

[sroy1947]

Thanks for the undeserved compliment. You have cited only a portion of
13(2) and not the provisos.

To summarize from my previous posts: BTW the entire thread can be
viewed here
http://groups.google.com/group/rti_india/browse_thread/thread/9458036ec4f63be7

"13(2) Every Information Commissioner shall hold office for a term of
five years from the date on which he enters upon his office or till he
attains the age of sixty-five years, whichever is earlier, and shall
not be eligible for reappointment as such Information Commissioner:

Provided that every Information Commissioner shall, on vacating his
office under this sub-section be eligible for appointment as the Chief
Information Commissioner in the manner specified in sub-section (3) of
section 12:

Provided further that where the Information Commissioner is appointed
as the Chief Information Commissioner, his term of office shall not be
more than five years in aggregate as the Information Commissioner and
the Chief Information Commissioner.
:
:
13(4) The Chief Information Commissioner or an Information
Commissioner may, at any time, by writing under his hand addressed to
the President, resign from his office:

Provided that the Chief Information Commissioner or an Information
Commissioner may be removed in the manner specified under section 14."

Comment:
So If Prof Ansari were to resign tomorrow with immediate effect (ie.
like Ms Omita Paul and unlike yourself), then the restriction of 13(2)
would not be applicable to him (as his vacation is not u/s 13.2) and
he could be appointed afresh as C'IC till he attains 65 years as his
eminence for the position is undeniable."

and

"Please read section 13 carefully

1) 13.1 distinguishes a CIC from an IC. A CIC is NOT an IC.

2) "Every Information Commissioner .. and shall not be eligible for

reappointment as such Information Commissioner:"

NB: "such". It is clear that an IC cannot be reappointed as an IC

3) Section 13 does not place any bar on an IC being appointed and/or
elevated to CIC. In fact 13.2 makes it abundantly clear that an IC can
become a CIC if he were to:"vacate office" either by achieving the age
of 65 or serving 5 years. The clause as it stands can never be given
effect to, because both the trigger events for vacation absolutely bar
an IC from subsequently becoming a CIC as the law stands..

4) The key words in the second provision are "provided further". The
"further" is obviously further to the first proviso which can never
come into effect. So the second further proviso is equally
meaningless.

5) So having established A) that an IC CAN become a CIC AND B) that an
IC to become CIC must VACATE his office by some means OTHER THAN that
under subsection 13(2), the prudent option for Mr Ansari (assuming
that he does not have some Governorship like J&K lined up) would be to
resign under sub-section 13(4) a few days in advance with immediate
effect - preferably directly to Madame President and not via the PMO
route. "

SO IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC DOUBTS, THIS GROUP EXISTS TO
DISCUSS THEM. BTW, I WUD BE HAPPY TO BE PROVED WRONG HERE.

Sarbajit

On Oct 9, 3:29 pm, VijayBahadur Singh <vijaybaha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarbajit
>
> An interpretation from an eminent legal brain like you is wanted
> irrespective of whatever term you use in your post, as that is beyond my
> control and may be your style of addressing.
>

[VijayBahadur Singh]

I believe in acquring knowledge and the person who imparts knowlege is "Guru" who is equal to God

 

"Gurur Brahma gurur Vishnu gurur devo Maheswarah

Gurur sakshat parambrahmah tasmi sri gurave namah"

Thanks a lot Sarbajit.

[sroy1947]

I can only acknowledge your offering with this
http://old.nabble.com/My-moderation-philosophy-td26724425.html#a26724425

Sarbajit