Interface feature suggestions

[Daragh Casey]

* Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen
last closed tab" shortcut is a given.

* I think it's also safe to assume that all tabs from the previous
session are present upon relaunch. I think it'd be a good idea to
follow NetNewsWire's browser's method of only reloading the resumed
tabs when they are given focus so that a browser launch doesn't
trigger a deluge of http requests. If memory use is a concern, it
might also be helpful to discard the contents of tabs that haven't
been viewed after a period of time and preserve them as they would be
after a relaunch.

* Location bar quicksearch ability, even if it isn't adaptable by the
user it's preferable over a dedicated search bar.

* As I mentioned on Waffle, I'd really like to see an iTunes-style
interface purely for organising and viewing open tabs. Preferably with
sortable columns for attributes like:

* loading status
* title
* URL
* size
* referrer
* http/https
* times viewed
* first viewed
* last reloaded
* last viewed

This view would ideally also have an iTunes-style loose filter search
bar thing.



Daragh.


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[Peter Hosey]

On Apr 18, 2010, at 19:03:42, Daragh Casey wrote:
> * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen last closed tab" shortcut is a given.

Perhaps ⌘Z?

> * I think it's also safe to assume that all tabs from the previous session are present upon relaunch.

OmniWeb has this feature, and I rely on it.

> * Location bar quicksearch ability, even if it isn't adaptable by the user it's preferable over a dedicated search bar.

OmniWeb has this feature (oh yes, this is the one that Chrome touted that I alluded to in my comment on Jesper's weblog).

> * As I mentioned on Waffle, I'd really like to see an iTunes-style interface

☹

> purely for organising and viewing open tabs.

What about OmniWeb's Workspaces panel?

[Daragh Casey]

On Apr 19, 3:20 am, Peter Hosey <bore...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 18, 2010, at 19:03:42, Daragh Casey wrote:
>
> > * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen last closed tab" shortcut is a given.
>
> Perhaps ⌘Z?
>

Yeah. Firefox uses ⌘⇧T. I don't mind what it is.

> > * Location bar quicksearch ability, even if it isn't adaptable by the user it's preferable over a dedicated search bar.
>
> OmniWeb has this feature (oh yes, this is the one that Chrome touted that I alluded to in my comment on Jesper's weblog).
>

Firefox had this from 1.0, and yet both it and OmniWeb also have
search bars.

> > * As I mentioned on Waffle, I'd really like to see an iTunes-style interface
>
> ☹
>
> > purely for organising and viewing open tabs.
>
> What about OmniWeb's Workspaces panel?
>

While iTunes is far from perfect, I think the iTunes interface
metaphor for organising and viewing metadata of a selection of
external resources is a useful one and would be instantly
understandable to anyone using a Mac.

OmniWeb's Workspaces incorporates a very basic version of this in that
they show a rough overview of open windows/tabs but I think I (and
others like me) want to work in a way that allows for effective
management of a very large number of open tabs that would require more
control over the listing. I'd also prefer if this interface lived in
its own tab and, again, had a keyboard shortcut to open/switch to it.

[Peter Hosey]

On Apr 18, 2010, at 19:41:50, Daragh Casey wrote:
>>> * Location bar quicksearch ability, even if it isn't adaptable by the user it's preferable over a dedicated search bar.
>>
>> OmniWeb has this feature (oh yes, this is the one that Chrome touted that I alluded to in my comment on Jesper's weblog).
>>
> Firefox had this from 1.0, and yet both it and OmniWeb also have search bars.

The search bar searches the web, whereas partial matching in the location field searches history and bookmarks. (At least in OmniWeb. I don't use Firefox.)

[Daragh Casey]

On Apr 19, 3:43 am, Peter Hosey <bore...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The search bar searches the web, whereas partial matching in the location field searches history and bookmarks. (At least in OmniWeb. I don't use Firefox.)

I meant quicksearches in the sense that you can define a keyword to
cue a particular search field and then follow it with search terms.
For example: you may define a keyword "g" for Google search so that
typing "g iceland volcano" would return a Google search for "iceland
volcano", Wikipedia's keyword might be "wp" so that typing "wp
Eyjafjallajökull" would return the Wikipedia entry for
Eyjafjallajökull.

[Peter Hosey]

On Apr 18, 2010, at 19:56:54, Daragh Casey wrote:
> I meant quicksearches in the sense that you can define a keyword to cue a particular search field and then follow it with search terms.
> For example: you may define a keyword "g" for Google search so that typing "g iceland volcano" would return a Google search for "iceland volcano", Wikipedia's keyword might be "wp" so that typing "wp Eyjafjallajökull" would return the Wikipedia entry for Eyjafjallajökull.

Ah yes. I use exactly that Wikipedia abbreviation, actually. The advantage of the search field is that you can choose which shortcut it uses, and ⌘⌥F copies the selected text (e.g., from the active web page) to it.

So, Monocle integration? ;)

[Jesper]

> * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen
> last closed tab" shortcut is a given.

Hold those horses. It will be designed to work very well when
keyboard-driven, but not solely so. At first, some click targets that
can be sacrificed in the name of expediency and redundancy to get the
thing up and running at all will be sacrificed, if that was what you
were after. But I've got nothing against the mouse. (Half the nifty
things you can do with tabs explicitly involve the mouse.)

Yes, reopen last closed tab is planned.

> * I think it's also safe to assume that all tabs from the previous
> session are present upon relaunch. I think it'd be a good idea to
> follow NetNewsWire's browser's method of only reloading the resumed
> tabs when they are given focus so that a browser launch doesn't
> trigger a deluge of http requests. If memory use is a concern, it
> might also be helpful to discard the contents of tabs that haven't
> been viewed after a period of time and preserve them as they would be
> after a relaunch.

Yes, I've been considering lazy reload because of the combination tons
of tabs and retention of state on startup. I used to constantly get
myself in sticky situations where I'd open 180 tabs and OmniWeb would
crash -- as it did when I was writing the Rouse announcement, no
kidding -- and then, thanks to an SSD, fall all over itself loading
everything back.

> * Location bar quicksearch ability, even if it isn't adaptable by the
> user it's preferable over a dedicated search bar.

As Peter mentioned, I have some prior experience with this and I have
some greater eventual plans. At the very least, it will do the
every-modern-browser filtering thing where it searches history for
URL, title and text of visited pages, but I'm hoping to sneak
launching searches in there too.

> * As I mentioned on Waffle, I'd really like to see an iTunes-style
> interface purely for organising and viewing open tabs. Preferably with
> sortable columns for attributes like:
>
>  * loading status
>  * title
>  * URL
>  * size
>  * referrer
>  * http/https
>  * times viewed
>  * first viewed
>  * last reloaded
>  * last viewed
>
>  This view would ideally also have an iTunes-style loose filter search
> bar thing.

I want tons of metadata around tabs. It will facilitate good tab
organization. We can talk about how to expose it, but I fundamentally
agree.

/Jesper

[Rafael Bugajewski]

On 19.04.2010, at 05:12, Peter Hosey <bor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 18, 2010, at 19:56:54, Daragh Casey wrote:
>> I meant quicksearches in the sense that you can define a keyword to
>> cue a particular search field and then follow it with search terms.
>> For example: you may define a keyword "g" for Google search so that
>> typing "g iceland volcano" would return a Google search for
>> "iceland volcano", Wikipedia's keyword might be "wp" so that typing
>> "wp Eyjafjallajökull" would return the Wikipedia entry for Eyjafja
>> llajökull.
>
> Ah yes. I use exactly that Wikipedia abbreviation, actually. The
> advantage of the search field is that you can choose which shortcut
> it uses, and ⌘⌥F copies the selected text (e.g., from the active
> web page) to it.
>
> So, Monocle integration? ;)

For me as a heavy browser junkie it really doesn't matter if this
functionality is present in a browser. I use Shortwave that works
great across different browsers and even different installations. And
all of you may have different priorities.

While I think it's interesting to discuss such features I also think
that it is more important to focus on basic functionality and get at
least a first working version with the feature set described at Waffle.

Like someone really clever already said: discussing is easy,
implementing is hard. I think everyone with enough skills and interest
should invest the time in development instead. Or we can discuss about
the magical unicorn.


--
Rafael Bugajewski (via iPhone)

[Mark Norman Francis]

>> * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen last closed tab" shortcut is a given.
> Perhaps ⌘Z?

Shouldn't clash with global undo, as that still gets used in textareas. I would suggest Cmd+Shift+Z or Cmd+Opt+Z, to match whichever combo is also being used for Previous/Next Tab.

-- Norm.

[Mark Norman Francis]

> The search bar searches the web, whereas partial matching in the location field searches history and bookmarks. (At least in OmniWeb. I don't use Firefox.)

Personally, I don't think that's a useful distinction.

If I'm searching for something, I would like the search to be _informed_ by my history and bookmarks (and frankly, I'd like to be informed by the history of all of my browsers, not just the current one).

I like the Awesome Bar/Chrome way of searching. I want to go _somewhere_ ... let me type until I find something that looks about right and go to it, or to a page of further choices.

The shortcuts method of searching that's been around for years is a good first step, but it's not a destination, to my mind. Mostly because I need to think in advance what kind of search I want. (For example, I want to look up details on a famous person, who is also an actor. Do I want Wikipedia, IMDB, or Google? Actually, I might want all three, so I'll mostly just go to Google and trust it to bring up the Wikipedia and IMDB options anyway).

-- Norm.

[Daragh Casey]

On Apr 19, 6:31 am, Jesper <woot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen
> > last closed tab" shortcut is a given.
>
> Hold those horses. It will be designed to work very well when
> keyboard-driven, but not solely so. At first, some click targets that
> can be sacrificed in the name of expediency and redundancy to get the
> thing up and running at all will be sacrificed, if that was what you
> were after. But I've got nothing against the mouse. (Half the nifty
> things you can do with tabs explicitly involve the mouse.)

I didn't mean that I thought it should be a purely keyboard driven
browser, I just meant that I think it should be a first-class keyboard
shortcut along with stop, reload, forward, back, new tab, etc.

[Daragh Casey]

On Apr 19, 1:02 pm, Mark Norman Francis <n...@cackhanded.net> wrote:
> >> * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen last closed tab" shortcut is a given.
> > Perhaps ⌘Z?
>
> Shouldn't clash with global undo, as that still gets used in textareas. I would suggest Cmd+Shift+Z or Cmd+Opt+Z, to match whichever combo is also being used for Previous/Next Tab

As I said above, Firefox uses Cmd+Shift+T which I think is a pretty
obvious and intuitive counterpoint to Cmd+T to open a new tab.

[Jesper]

> The shortcuts method of searching that's been around for years is a good first step, but it's not a destination, to my mind. Mostly because I need to think in advance what kind of search I want. (For example, I want to look up details on a famous person, who is also an actor. Do I want Wikipedia, IMDB, or Google? Actually, I might want all three, so I'll mostly just go to Google and trust it to bring up the Wikipedia and IMDB options anyway).

I agree.

And for now, that's all I'm going to say about that. Useful and
worthwhile implementation of this is still a bit away anyway.

/Jesper

[Jesper]

> On Apr 19, 1:02 pm, Mark Norman Francis <n...@cackhanded.net> wrote:
>> >> * Since Rouse is designed to be keyboard-driven, I'll assume a "reopen last closed tab" shortcut is a given.
>> > Perhaps ⌘Z?
>>
>> Shouldn't clash with global undo, as that still gets used in textareas. I would suggest Cmd+Shift+Z or Cmd+Opt+Z, to match whichever combo is also being used for Previous/Next Tab
>
> As I said above, Firefox uses Cmd+Shift+T which I think is a pretty
> obvious and intuitive counterpoint to Cmd+T to open a new tab.

Yes. This is what will be used.