Bootstrapping

[Jesper]

I understand that some people are hesitant to see all this talk of
Rouse and no bare bones shell to go about implementing stuff in. I
made the final decision to start pursuing Rouse just tonight, and I'm
not proud of the scaffolding I've used to test some ideas out
previously. Due to a transiently tight schedule, I will aim to have a
functional shell available within a few days. If anyone wants to cook
that up as well, I'm happy to bless such a thing.

For anything involving commit rights, just state your intentions
on-list or off-list (on-list is more convenient since it's apparent
what's being worked on) and I'll get in touch. You also don't have to
go at something alone; collaboration can work well even within a small
module.

/Jesper


--
Subscription settings: http://groups.google.com/group/rouse-dev/subscribe?hl=en

[Alcides Fonseca]

On 2010/04/18, at 22:04, Jesper wrote:
>
> For anything involving commit rights, just state your intentions
> on-list or off-list (on-list is more convenient since it's apparent
> what's being worked on) and I'll get in touch. You also don't have to
> go at something alone; collaboration can work well even within a small
> module.

May I ask why did you choose to go with Google Code (and SVN) and not Git+github (or even mercurial in Google Code). DVCS make it more easy for other people to contribute to your project (I love github feature of submitting changes) and made me contribute to projects I wouldn't otherwise.

And if I want to contribute, I just fork the project and don't need you to give me permission. And when I'm done, you can accept my pull request.

Of course Xcode doesn't have support for git (nor mercurial). And it's a good reason not do go with it.

Alcides

[Peter Hosey]

On Apr 18, 2010, at 14:15:59, Alcides Fonseca wrote:
> May I ask why did you choose to go with Google Code (and SVN) and not Git+github (or even mercurial in Google Code).

I don't mean to answer for Jesper, but one reason could be the fact that Google Code supports integration with Google Groups. The project can have a link to this list from its front page.

Another, more probable reason is that he's familiar with Subversion and not with Git. This is the “brain damage” Torvalds refers to, although I think “brain health” might be more accurate (Git having the unfortunate tendency to use established terms, like “head”, with subtlely wrong meanings).

> DVCS make it more easy for other people to contribute to your project (I love github feature of submitting changes) and made me contribute to projects I wouldn't otherwise.

I like DVCS, too; specifically, Mercurial. Unlike Git, Mercurial's UI feels *designed*, rather than lashed together ad hoc.

Boy, this got into VCS holy wars fast. Can we argue about drawers next?

[Alcides Fonseca]

On 2010/04/18, at 22:26, Peter Hosey wrote:

> I like DVCS, too; specifically, Mercurial. Unlike Git, Mercurial's UI feels *designed*, rather than lashed together ad hoc.
>
> Boy, this got into VCS holy wars fast. Can we argue about drawers next?

Just to be clear, my main point was about allowing people to easily contribute without the need for requesting permissions before. DVCS were my suggestion and github was just for the hype factor. Jesper will know if it is worth it, or not, which is totally okay with me.

As a side-note, I like mercurial's UI the best but read the first bullet point from "What I learned" at http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2010/4/3/april-1st-post-mortem.

Alcides

[Peter Hosey]

On Apr 18, 2010, at 14:37:59, Alcides Fonseca wrote:
> As a side-note, I like mercurial's UI the best but read the first bullet point from "What I learned" at http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2010/4/3/april-1st-post-mortem.

There is only one way to break a network effect.

[Jesper]

> Boy, this got into VCS holy wars fast. Can we argue about drawers next?

Certainly. Under no circumstances will Rouse have drawers.

/Jesper
Non-joker

[Jesper]

> May I ask why did you choose to go with Google Code (and SVN) and not Git+github (or even mercurial in Google Code). DVCS make it more easy for other people to contribute to your project (I love github feature of submitting changes) and made me contribute to projects I wouldn't otherwise.

This is tricky. I could argue that of all the people with Xcode and
Snow Leopard, 100% have Subversion. And you could argue that of all
the people interested in contributing, maybe a significant number
dislike Subversion or would rather use something else. In the end, you
have to go with something. Please see Subversion for the "just a
cigar" that it really is, but I did pick Google Code because I could
opt to go with a distributed system if that's what people wanted.

> And if I want to contribute, I just fork the project and don't need you to give me permission. And when I'm done, you can accept my pull request.
>
> Of course Xcode doesn't have support for git (nor mercurial). And it's a good reason not do go with it.

It would also be dishonest of me not to mention that I have no actual
experience with using distributed version control systems, or that I
dislike the command line hoops that everyone that uses it seems to
consider a feature. That said, there are tools available, and hginit
tickled my fancy.

In the end, I'm going to cope with whatever people want to use. I
don't want anything holding people back.

/Jesper

[Mark Norman Francis]

> It would also be dishonest of me not to mention that I have no actual
> experience with using distributed version control systems, or that I
> dislike the command line hoops that everyone that uses it seems to
> consider a feature. That said, there are tools available, and hginit
> tickled my fancy.

As an established github user, I obviously would lean towards git over
hg, bzr or anything even more left-field.

But given http://github.com/guides/import-from-subversion I wouldn't
care if the project sticks with svn.

(Of course, the complete lack of any Obj-C skills also means I'm more
in the peanut gallery–really I'm just being nosey than actually being
of use here.)

-- Norm.

[Jesper]

> As an established github user, I obviously would lean towards git over
> hg, bzr or anything even more left-field.
>
> But given http://github.com/guides/import-from-subversion I wouldn't
> care if the project sticks with svn.

I've been thinking about that too. Even if most people seem to agree
that a distributed system is the bee's knees, I could pick one of them
and still hurt people's feelings. And there are bridges to Subversion
back and forth.

> (Of course, the complete lack of any Obj-C skills also means I'm more
> in the peanut gallery–really I'm just being nosey than actually being
> of use here.)

Don't underestimate the value of honest opinions.

/Jesper

[Mark Norman Francis]

> Don't underestimate the value of honest opinions.

"People with opinions just go around bothering each other" -- Buddha. ;)

-- Norm.

[Jesper]

> "People with opinions just go around bothering each other" -- Buddha. ;)

Don't underestimate the value of bothering one another.

/Jesper