Whoop 4.0 Test
Tillie
Unfortunately I cannot add any more test users. Waiting for Whoop to approve Intervals.icu for production use. For those already testing, do not disconnect. I did that and now I cannot get back in due to the user limit
I re-submitted the approval request yesterday and this time I received a confirmation email. So it seems something went wrong during the previous submission process. So hopefully it will be approved soon.
Whoop has a number Whoop Body garments at launch, including ones for both workout and the rest of the day. These include workout shorts, compression leggings, compression tops, sports bras, and armbands. On the 247 side, they include boxer-briefs and bralettes.
And just to cement things further, before this change my Sleep Performance (that simple math equation of how much sleep I got over how much sleep Whoop wanted me to get), has now changed too, seen here before at left, and after at right.
In short, your HRV value is the most heavily weighted factor here. Historically speaking Whoop has only taken a single HRV data point from the last 5 minutes of your last deep sleep. However, earlier this past summer they started to account for all-night HRV values within this score. But that assumes the HRV values are correct, or, even more simplistically, that HRV is even the most accurate way to gauge athletic recovery.
Lastly on the actionable data side, there are performance reports. These are based on a blend of data Whoop collects on you, with data from your journal. These are accessible from the little clipboard icon, and have both a weekly assessment and a monthly one.
Whoop 4.0 tracks a number of things during sleep, including: The time you fell asleep, the time you woke up, exactly how much of that in-between time was asleep, sleep phases, your body temperature shifts, SpO2, breathing rate, and HRV values.
Most of these things are then weighted and pulled into the sleep score. A far higher weighting is given to your HRV values than other aspects of sleep (such as duration). Earlier this summer (2021), Whoop adjusted its recovery scores significantly, most notably now validating the HRV values over the entire night of your sleep, rather than a single 5-minute period of your last deep sleep (which was heavily prone to error).
A) Did it track when I went to sleep correctly?
B) Did it track when I woke up correctly?
C) Did it track any obvious awake periods?
D) How does the recovery score it gives me, match how my body feels (perceived effort)?
Not only did the Whoop 4.0 band basically hold on for dear life and nail all of this on the wrist, but the Whoop 3.0 on the bicep (using a wrist strap), also managed to be nearly identical the entire time. In fact, the only time we saw the Whoop 3.0 falter (in blue here) was the very last interval, wherein it succumbed to falling low and slow, whereas the Whoop 4.0 rose above it (in yellow) and stayed with the reference units:
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well for your own gadget comparisons, more details here.)
Hey DC, The table is of the readiness chart is super interesting to me. I see all of the data besides athlytic via apple watch? I have an SE and am considering subscribing to athlytic. Is that data in a chart somewhere or in a few words did the estimates seem to track decently well? Looks like they pull in HRV, exertion, and sleep data.
I found the most interesting difference to be the fact that Body Battery actually rises during the day if you are at rest. I believe that is reflecting reality as if I had a hard workout the day before and even a rough night sleep, a calm day at work with mostly sitting definitely recharges me somewhat.
I did not know this. I do know that I abandoned Whoop because it would routinely say that I was well recovered on days that I was absolutely wiped out from cumulative efforts (e.g. a cycling vacation week that absolutely pushed me to the limit). I have always assumed that the HRV measurement was wrong and that was the problem.
Daily HRV should be compared with a moving average of HRV. If below or above your typical range, then you should pay attention to other metrics (HRV coefficient of variation and resting HR for example), to understand if you could be overreaching and needing a break or are adapting well to training.
Ray, have you looked at their heart rate variability (HRV) calculation? Their recovery score is not simply based on strain and sleep, but is very significantly a function of the measured HRV. In my experience with Whoop 3.0, as much as they had real problems measuring heart rate, their HRV measurements were a real mess for me. This made the recovery scores essentially useless. Since the recovery score is their #1 big output, failing to look at HRV accuracy somewhat limits the usefulness of this review.
There were many times when it seemed to have an accurate measure of my cumulative strain and my sleep, but the HRV scores were just crazy leading to terrible recovery metrics. There were far too many cases of it telling me I had a 90+ recovery score the morning after a crazy hard cycling vacation week (e.g. 5 days in a row of 100+ miles a day for a 57 year old). In some cases, I would wake up for 20-30 minutes, then go back to sleep for another 2 hours. In this case, whoop would calculate my score then recalculate my score. Both would show up in Training peaks. It was not infrequent that my recovery score from after the second sleep would be materially lower than the first score.
Ray, thanks so much. Very informative and appreciated. I am currently studying the Fit Bit Charge Recovery Score with my Garmin 745 Body Battery and my Oura Ring 2 Readiness score. Oura Gen 3 arrives Friday. Whoop 4.0- God knows when.
Thanks for keeping me up hours after my normal sack time.??
The other thing about the Whoop 3.o is to look at the last hour or two of your sleeping heart rate trace, if it is low and flat that is a very good sign. The algorithm should probably look at that more.
great review (again), the one I was waiting for. I cancelled my whoop order already and your review confirms my expectations. Upgraded my 735xt to a 745 and its great for activities and I guess equally as good as the whoop for sleep/strain (body battery) tracking.
Anyhow, compliments on another well writen review.
Kr;.
i have been using scosche weight training bands for years and now the second wahoo tickr fit (the first wahoo broke one of the bars for the wristband).both are quite inaccurate and often show for minutes around 20-40 bmp too low values. wear them on the upper forearm just below the elbow joint.
I am during strength training the chest straps simply uncomfortable although they are much more accurate (wahoo tick and polar run). what really annoys me is that neither polar nor wahoo offer a comfortable to wear shirt in which (replaceable) electrodes are integrated and to which you can then simply plug the pod of the tickr or polar run. that would be for weight training or crossfit the perfect mix of wearing comfort and accuracy.
However, you should realize one thing: WHOOP calculates your sleep need based on baseline (about 7.5 hours), estimated awake time (i.e. average time to fall asleep, etc.), extra time due to strain (can be in excess of an hour on heavy training days), and finally sleep debt. So, if you are training hard, say, for a marathon, your sleep requirements will be substantial. Ray alluded to that. Naps become the only way to bring them down.
I get a message saying there is a firmware update available for my whoop 4. But when I click the update button I get a message saying there are no new updates. Since I know an update came out yesterday I wonder if my Whoop has been updated.
My firmware says 41.8.0.14 and then 17.0.4.0
I contacted support and was bumped up to a higher tech level but I have not heard back.
Can someone tell me if I have the latest firmware? If not has anyone else had this problem?
Seems to me that an Apple Watch app could provide similar insight. Have you ran across one that gives accurate readiness/body battery/strain type scores? I recently downloaded the Welltory app and it seem promising but not sure if I should upgrade it or if there are better AW apps out there.
I was thinking more along the line of you having to sleep 10 hours for 2 days straight for example, to clear up your sleep debt from the past 7 days. Only after paying that debt would you start seeing more normal sleep hours suggestions (7-8 hours).
Aspects like the journaling are probably going to show up in more ecosystems over time in order to better explain gaps between measurable HRV and perception of readiness. Caffeine, B12, and sugar all substantial impact perceived energy level and whether fatigue signals are registered correctly. They certainly do also impact quality of sleep for many people which makes the feedback loop longer. Difficulty there is tracking those things at a sufficient level of detail without being so irritating to the user that they give up on it. Keeping your level of Crystal Pepsi constant and avoiding a second round during victory celebrations helps keep the science scientific.
It is understandable that so many companies in the fitness space are attempting to make an easy to understand abstraction about readiness. People of all ability levels want it. People that have aggressive training schedules and want to minimize variability in their training outcomes will probably need to look past the abstractions for the other details of what is actually going on in their systems for a while longer.
The middle-ground tends to be the case where I could potentially turn things around, or it drops down. Though, in most cases, my concerns were when I scored high but felt like crap, or scored like crap despite feeling great.
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