Should Rodgers decide...

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Noel Jones

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Dec 5, 2015, 11:55:06 AM12/5/15
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Should Rodgers decide to reduce quality to build less-expensive organs?

That's the real, driving issue and more important than repeating rumors.

Has Cadillac or Mercedes or Lexus ever succeeded in developing a market share in less-expensive organs?

Has Volkswagen ever succeeded in grabbing market share away from Cadillac, Mercedes or Lexus?

What car company is equally successful in building and marketing budget cars, mid-priced cars and luxury cars and ultra-luxury/performance cars.

Can a company spread itself thin and make money trying to be everything to everybody.


But the real question really is, should Rodgers cheapen their products or remain on the high end of quality and the resultant price?
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Noel jones

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Dec 6, 2015, 5:32:03 PM12/6/15
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And I need to reiterate…I have NO inside information about what is going on at Rodgers/Roland.


noel

Noel Jones

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Dec 6, 2015, 6:03:33 PM12/6/15
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If you were to run Rodgers, would you continue to compete across the spectrum of organ, offering less-expensive organs like the Roland-built for Rodgers organs that have been available for 20+ years under the Rodgers name, or concentrate on the standard Rodgers line built in Hillsboro?

Would this increase the perception of quality in the minds of organists?

(error ridden email prior to his has been deleted)

noel

George Andersson

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Dec 6, 2015, 8:45:29 PM12/6/15
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Speaking as a consumer, I was happy that I was able to get an affordable home practice organ from the same dealer, with the same support, that provided the organ for our church. I was pleased to get sound modules that I could use with both organs. I still benefit from a users group that crosses both.

I'm sure there are many professional organists who don't benefit from this as much as I do, but I find it very helpful.  And, yes, it does build brand loyalty. Why would I go elsewhere or steer my church elsewhere when my personal needs, and those of my church congregation, are being met. 

George

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Rodgers de

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Dec 6, 2015, 9:20:56 PM12/6/15
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A very well considered statement, George!

 

Imagine that one of the two BIG organ manufacturers might partner up and co-op with one of the two BIG European digital organ builders. What would that mean to you and most of the historical, current and future customers?

 

One thing will be for sure: In such a scenario I could imagine a new, extremely strong joint-venture coming up that would certainly have the potential to define a new level of global market share, market penetration, diversity of products and price ranges within one such specific joint-venture.

 

Let’s face the reality: As of today, only four globally active manufacturers are sharing significant parts of the global Digital Church Organ market – which is Rodgers and Allen from the US market perspective, and Johannus and Viscount from the European part. Just imagine what a close, meaningful joint-venture between one of the US- and one of the big European guys could mean and achieve in terms of market penetration, technology-sharing, efficiency of production and distribution to the ‘good old Classical Organ Industry’…?

 

US markets are not yet used to a retail structure where organ dealers may represent and promote more than just one single organ brand – however, this is something that is quite normal in Europe and other global markets. Actually, why not…? What would be wrong if an organ dealer would offer his customers a product- and pricing range, starting from a very affordable entry-level range of home and practice organs, up to a state-of-the-art range of instruments for institutional and professional use, including individual  pipe-digital hybrid solutions? Would brand names really matter in such a scenario…?

 

Dieter

Ralph Cullen

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Dec 6, 2015, 9:32:55 PM12/6/15
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Amen.

Sent from my iPhone

Efore Shan

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Dec 6, 2015, 9:39:19 PM12/6/15
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 Looking at this from a professional business perspective....there is competition...supply / demand / and cost.
 
Lets look at the big 3...
 
1 is a corporate entity tucked into Roland the other 2 are family owned....
 
A corporate entity is always a the mercy of its shareholders, a family owned operation may have more flexibility in terms of pricing & its ability to eb and flow with the market demand....
 
All are responsible for cutting costs in terms of building and selling market price.
 
If you are a builder who can pass savings and quality onto the customer ultimately, they will rise to the top, if cost to purchase is not out of order with cost to build you will be in a stronger financial position....
 
For example if company 1 sells 4 organs in a year for $1,000,000 company 2 sells 8 organs a year for $1,000,000 company 3 sells 12 organs for $1,000,000 a year.
 
But cost for company A is $250,000 Cost for Company B is $500,000 and Cost for Company C is $175,000
 
There is no question who will be on top.....
 
This is reality......regardless of taste, the numbers never lie....he who sells more and makes more will be the frontrunner...
 
As for what will happen, who knows, I just hope Rodgers is still around in one form or another true to its roots....
Subject: Re: Frog Music's ROUG Forum Re: Should Rodgers decide...
From: geande...@charter.net
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 19:44:32 -0600
To: rodgersu...@googlegroups.com

Rodgers de

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Dec 6, 2015, 9:47:40 PM12/6/15
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Don’t worry – Rodgers will always own its dedicated, specific share on the US and global digital and digital-hybrid organ market ;)

John Mitchell

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Dec 6, 2015, 10:04:54 PM12/6/15
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Some people want a Cadillac, some are satisfied with a Chevrolet. But both are made by General Motors. I've heard that in Europe, Mercedes does sell some less expensive models but people there are aware of that. Rodgers has been selling more economical models and if they weren't profitable, they would have abandoned that end of the market. If you're specific about the quality differences between models, that may work. Depending on the economy, at times, the econo models might sell better and at other times, the higher priced models might sell well. I suspect we've been in a market where more expensive digital organs are difficult to sell. If you check the Rodgers website, down at the very bottom you can click on Legacy Products. It appears that the Masterpiece Signature Series with custom stoplists is still available but that's not a series they feature on the website.
 
I suspect that in today's organs, the quality differences are more about hardware than software. Once an organ company possesses quality samples, it doesn't make much sense to sell some organs with inferior quality samples and others with the better samples. But you can sell organs with lesser or better quality keyboards, etc. Does it make more business sense to sell the more economical products under a different brand name? I don't know but we may find out in the future.
 
John Mitchell
 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 15:03:32 -0800
From: no...@frogmusic.com
To: rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Frog Music's ROUG Forum Re: Should Rodgers decide...
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Noel jones

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Dec 6, 2015, 11:15:41 PM12/6/15
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You cannot forget that we have progressed to a software based economy most (electronic organ) companies operate on ssl hardware which is pre-loaded and taken from expanded samples. They are hard wired. Hard wired samples are about 1000 or so megabytes software market available are in the realm of 20gigs which is 20 times that or over 20,000megabytes the more you have the clearer the sound. 

Now it is possible for someone to have a higher level of sample sets in their own home with software available on the Internet of a higher quality of that than any other builder on the market for less than $1000. 

A midi based or SSL based system is not relative in today's world. 

Just listen to a sample set of the cavaille-coll set of Metz cathedral anyone else out there with "French" sample pales in comparison. 

It's the same as when computers where millions of dollars and took up an entire floor.That technology now fits on your wrist for $299...just ask Apple in 1983 and last week.

Point is you can buy the sound of a caddillac for the price of a ford this is what technology has afforded us. 



No. I apologize for saying this, but this is all rather incorrect.  

There is a major difference between playing a Hauptwerk organ, which is a recording of that organ in that room - and that’s all that it will ever be, and a Rodgers which has a high quailtyi sytems in its entirety of matching equipment and controls to create the sound of a pipe organ in a room digitally.

The speed of sampling - look up the Nyquist Theorum.

And Hauptwerk is non-voiceable, unless you get the dry samples and HW has a letter in their site advising that you NOT buy them…and will discount the full version if you have bought them.

Hauptwerk is fun if you like playing what is nothing but a CD hooked up to a MIDI keyboard.

HW organs are the rare birds, excellent organs in excellent rooms…they are today’s Heathkit organs.  This is not an insult but the best way to say that they are not ready for prime time as church organs.

There’s a Cleveland State professor of Economics who tells students each year (he’s probably retired) that the digital church organ business is full of crooks because with the cost of memory dropping each year pricing should go down rather than up.

To him I’d like to quote Rubenstein, after a lady said she want edto see those lovely hands he played the piano with.  “What makes you think I play piano with my hands?”

noel jones, aago
frog music press


Rodgers & Roland Church Organs 
Steinway Pianos in the Chattanooga, TN area


Frog Music Press
201 County Road 432
Englewood, TN 37329





gerry

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Dec 7, 2015, 12:21:06 AM12/7/15
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OK,  With your permission Noel, I’d like to take a swing at this.
 
My name is Gerry Oehring, and I am the RODGERS dealer in Nebraska. (at least till someone at Rodgers reads this post!!! lol) I am also someone who is quite familiar with Hauptwerk, and run a large system in my home.
As a matter of fact, if anyone is interested, just tonight I posted a short description of my system over at the Hauptwerk forum.
 
Noel, you are correct about much of what you say, but it should be noted that the advanced version of the Hauptwerk program allows instruments to be voiced in much the same way as a RODGERS when we used to do it on a laptop. It is much slower than Rodgers, but you can do many of the same functions.
 
I would respectfully point out that there is a HUGE difference from an engineering perspective between designing software for a Mac or PC, and designing a board that will stand up to 35-50 years of service. I defy you to find a PC that will last anywhere that long. this accounts for a large portion of the cost difference. Also, as a manufacturer, Rodgers is morally required to provide for service needs many years from now. This costs money. A software vendor does not need to worry about hardware working long term.
 
I would also respectfully point out that the dollar figures given have no basis in reality. The advanced version of the program costs around $600.00. The Metz he speaks of costs $789.00. That alone is more than $1,000.00 Then you need to add the cost of the MIDI console or conversion, Audio interface, speakers, and other associated software. (Reaper, Verberate, etc.)
 
The computer needs to be a rather high end device in order to process the number of functions necessary to successfully play the samplesets. (My computer really needs to have more memory, but I am sorta getting by using a fast I7,with a two terabyte HD, and a SSD drive with 1 TB.  I also have 32 gigs of ram.  This will play a moderate sized organ, but there are several instruments that require more than double that.
 
I really don’t see how you do a Hauptwerk system well, which will play a generous sized organ for less than $10-15,000.  There are many who spend MUCH more than that, depending on the quality of components used.
 
Hauptwerk is a lot of fun at home, but I personally would be frightened to put it in an average church with an organist that was not computer literate. It is one thing for a tinkerer to try it, but when a church comes to me as a dealer, I believe that I owe it to them to provide a more “bullet proof” solution.
 
One last point. Rodgers is providing an American Classic style of sound. It is eclectic and very refined.  There is to date not one single high end sample set of an Aeolian Skinner organ for Hauptwerk. The American Classic sets that are available are at best average. This is at best not an apples to apples comparison. They don’t have a sample-set that is really even similar to what we are doing.
 
Best,
 
Gerry
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Noel Jones

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Dec 7, 2015, 12:24:31 AM12/7/15
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This just in and sender blocker.

Sorry Noel, Your living in your blog....
 
Whatever your Nyquest Therum is not reality....
 
Voice ability is 900 parameters....not sure you have looked elsewhere......
 
Sorry but we live in an age where this cannot be disputed.....
 
Quote whoever you wish......whatever 
 

 

boz...@frontier.com

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Dec 7, 2015, 9:01:08 AM12/7/15
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Gerry - Thanks for the info. Rodgers is fortunate to have people like you on staff.
 
John J. Bozzola

Allegiant 789 + MX-200 + Profiler
Carbondale, IL

“When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money.”  — Native American Saying



RCL...@email.com

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Dec 7, 2015, 9:44:21 AM12/7/15
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Gerry,

 

Having a Rodgers and Hauptwerk myself, I think you’ve hit it out of the park.  Very nicely stated.

 

Best regards,

Bob Leety

Nazareth, PA

Walter Greenwood

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Dec 7, 2015, 2:14:19 PM12/7/15
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Somebody overdid it with his meds. ;-)

WG
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James Hockin

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Dec 8, 2015, 8:43:16 AM12/8/15
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THere are always ways to make this work. It all depends on attitudes and how strong the egos are that need to be left outside the meeting room door!! It is kind of how they select a new pope. Just keep at it and then blow the white smoke!!!! If different denominations can agree to meet and discuss their differences, than what is to prevent the same for the organ business? Only one thing - EGO! Let us of forward in a changing world. WE have no terrorists to deal with on this. It is just another step to provide a balanced approach to providing the proper organ for what a church 's or individual's budget can afford. If we have a church that does need need an Infinity, then look lower in the line. LOWER IS NOT WORSE - IT JUST LIMITS CAPABILITIES THAT WOULD NEVER BE USED IN THE FIRST PLACE. I think we need to move forward with a smile and realize we all come to the table with different backgrounds and different wants and needs.

One of my sons has a college degree in Peace Studies. And he works and bringing sides together. what works for individuals works the same for groups. Unlike our ridiculous political system, we can do a whole lot better. ONWARD WE GO - WE WILL SURVIVE THE CHANGE - WE HAVE A GREAT LINE OF INSTRUMENTS JUST WAITING TO BE PLAYED. GO FORWARD - NOT BACK!

Jim Hockin, Rodgers Organ Studio of Minneapolis

Robert Mcmenis

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Dec 8, 2015, 11:59:42 PM12/8/15
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CONCERNING THE FUTURE OF RODGERS

It appears to me that Rodgers is doing what one has suggested - pair an organ from Europe with Rodgers.made in the US.  The fact that Roland and Rodgers are both are  owned by the same stockholders makes it even easier to do for Roland and Rodgers.

The solution to me is develop the Roland brand for the lower priced organs as is already being done.

The new R models may answer one question.  The new R models have a different specification than the Roland models from which the Rodgers Artist Series was born.

The Roland organs are made in Europe. I believe in Italy.  Roland sends the "huge chip" to Rodgers to assemble in an American console.  As I understand it, all the real guts of the Roland and Rodgers Classic Series are made in Europe.   Rodgers puts an AGO pedal board on the Rodgers Classic Series.

American law is such that as long as everything is assembled in an American factory, it can be sold as being manufactured in the US.  I read some time ago that Allen was securing parts from other countries. I suspect that Allen has its own factories in other nations manufacturing parts, just like Roland does for Rodgers.   Most products today using technology use a variety of parts from various sources internationally. 

I like the idea of the Rodgers models having much of the organ production done in Europe by Roland but providing Rodgers organ samples instead of Roland samples for one set of specifications in the Artist Series.

It isn't that the Rodgers samples are so superior to the Roland samples as it is that the Rodgers samples have heavy influence of stops from the Aeolean  -Skinner organs., the beloved organs we all hear from the Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas TV Special and national services from the National Cathedral in Washington, DC from time to time.

The principal chorus on our 808 Masterpiece organ is Aeolean Skinner.
 

The two manual Artist should have a R organ added like the thee and four manuals.  All draw knob consoles should have the option of doubling the number of possible channels. Other "digital possibilities" in the Infinity series could be added to the draw knob consoles but not in the Classic series models and perhaps added to the stop tablet models with the R  as well.

That would make it possible to put in a state-of -the art Rodgers Artist draw knob organ in a church that is much less expensive than a custom made Infinity. There would be four separate set specifications available that can be mismatched as wanted.

The Artist Series could be voiced stop for stop note for note to be "tuned" to the room.  Some of the possibilities on the Artist such as chiff, treble or bass, etc would further customize an Artist organ.  All with added costs, but costs less than the Infinity.

My point is that churches or individuals that are money challenged can dress any one of the three Artist draw knob consoles to come very close to the stock Infinity.  The cost of designing an organ from the beginning does provide a unique organ designed for a specific location; home, church, music hall, but the cost is considerably more than a well designed and voiced Artist drawknob console.

There is no reason that the stock models can't also be state of the art in sound with added costs of course, of course.

What would  denying churches a great sounding organ  that don't cost huge, huge  bucks to pay for an organ when an organ that they can afford can be made available that is close enough to the Invinifty that the organist can enjoy playing the organ and those that love hearing a pipe organ are pleased.

The beloved Aeoloean Skinner foundation stops principals and diapasons are sampled from Aeolean Skinner.  With fiery reeds and lush strings, the Aeloean set the standard for Masterpiece.

Keeping the Rodgers sound that is heavily Aeolian Skinner as one of the four choices is very important to have repeat sales to organists and churches.

For churches who are smaller and can't afford a $200,000 or more organ, Rodgers can produce an two manual organ with only 29 stops, but those stops can be made equal to similar stops on a custom organ.   Rosewood consoles with elaborate design are gorgeous, but will moving up to an expensive console that adds $10,000 to the cost of the console really make the organ sound better?   The mechanical stops are great if the church or individual can afford them. But do they add to the beautiful sound of the organ as heard by the people?

Let Roland be the name plate for the organs that have the stripped down consoles that are made well, but perhaps not as well made as the Rodgers cousins that are made in the US.  

A 23 to 25 stop specification for a two manual may be needed to make the Roland less expensive.

I would add a Roland three manual console with about 32 or 34 stops be made available with a Rodgers Classic model with the same stops added as well.   I've played many three manual pipe organs with less than 35 stops.   Since Allen organs are part of this discussion, Allen has an  organ series that looks similar to the Roland Classic 330.  It is the entry organ for Allen. I wondered if it is made in the US.

Putting Roland on the models that don't meet the exacting qualifications that the Artist and or Infinity or the Artist have does exactly what has been suggested here by this poster.

There you have it.  Roland Classic, then the Rodgers Classic and the flagship Artist series that can compare well, stop for stop, to the Infinity for less money than purchasing a custom Infinity.

The number of stops on the Artist two manual, three manual and the four manual is much less than is on the Infinity.: Twenty-nine Artist, 43 Infinity,  three manual Artist, 34,  61 Infinity, Four manual Artist 51, Infinity 84. The more stops the more expensive the organ will be.

I hope Rodgers doesn't leave the small churches high and dry.  With Roland Europe, Rodgers can do what has been suggested and have total control over choice of stops, quality of parts etc.  It is possible for a Rodgers Classic organ to be installed the same day as a customized Infinity in a church across town.   Decades later both organs could be replaced within a year of each other with no significant difference in the costs of maintenance per dollar spent on initial installation.  Both organs would faced similar major maintenance costs to keep being used for worship in churches.

Of the four digital builders that do the vast number of digital organ installations in the US, only Rodgers already does what has been suggested by this poster.

If I were product manager at Rodgers, I would explore all possibilites for the Artist series what ever they may be.

I would have a distinction similar to the Platinum that would allow for doubling the possible channels of sound.  Perhaps other features built in the Infinity, but not in the Roland and Classic series, especially console considerations.

I would not make a mechanical draw knob console for the Artist Series.

Rodgers built their reputation on the market that Rodgers has sounds as good as some highly customized models from other makers, yet the other organs cost much, much more.   If Roland and Rodgers together can create custom organs that beat the competition and cost less as well, Rodgers will become the standard for custom organs. 

Putting the Roland name on the lower end is doing what Rodgers has done for years.   The older Allegiant had the very same stops as the Insignia.  The Insignia was made in Europe and the Allegiant was made in the US. Yet, the Rodgers name was on both.

That fixes the possible issue of who will Rodgers cater to. Lower end or upper end stock models. 


The issue of custom organs and hybrid organs is being decided by the people who want a top of the line organ and have the money to do so.  With organ factories in Europe and the organ factory in Hillsboro, Roland/Rodgers has the ability to serve both markets and successfully compete in both.

Also, I have read that Rodgers has a record of having spare pats when needed for any organ Rodgers has made since 1958.

Of the big four, only Roland/Rodgers has the extensive resources and overall market in the sale of digital pianos, keyboards and all, to best be able to do the research and implement new technology and still maintain a healthy profit for the stockholders.   What Rodgers learns in research may be first used in Roland keyboards especially the orchestral samples.

As I understand it, the private owners of Allen have developed other financial interests within the Allen Corporation over time  that are money makers to cover losses by the organ division and still have Allen Corporation make a profit.

The founder of Roland has the same philosophy as Allen and will do the same as long as he has the majority of stock holders support.  The question is what will happen when the founder has passed on or can no longer run the company.

Steinway still produces the 5'1' and also has the Boston line for those who can't afford a piano with Steinway on the name plate.   This hasn't affected Steinway's reputation as the piano that sets the standard for concert grands.

Yamaha chooses to put Yamaha on its finest pianos and the same name plate on their lower end of pianos as well.  Hasn't hurt Yamaha.

There are not enough samples of Rodgers organs available for listening available on the web site.  A Rodgers store should offer for sale  some of the various CDs that have been cut using great organists playing the various in production models. If they haven't been made, get some organists to cut some CDs or videos.   If there are CDs of the Masterpiece still available sell them as long as they last.

The web page introducing the R models was not well introduced.  I was looking for bell and whistles. After a while, I decided to look at the specifications. Then it is when I discovered that the R models have alternate specification available that many organists would prefer.

I haven't figured out why R is the letter used.  I would have thought B would be used as a been the custom of Rodgers for several years.

Rodgers biggest need appears to be the need of a better web page.  This one is better than some in the past, but some in the past had more information that sells organs to those who look on line first to pick out their favorite models from various organ makers.

This is how I feel today.  Next week with new information, I may change my mind!








On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:43 AM, James Hockin <jrho...@gmail.com> wrote:


THere are always ways to make this work. It all depends on attitudes and how strong the egos are that need to be left outside the meeting room door!! It is kind of how they select a new pope. Just keep at it and then blow the white smoke!!!! If different denominations can agree to meet and discuss their differences, than what is to prevent the same for the organ business? Only one thing - EGO! Let us of forward in a changing world. WE have no terrorists to deal with on this. It is just another step to provide a balanced approach to providing the proper organ for what a church 's or individual's budget can afford. If we have a church that does need need an Infinity, then look lower in the line. LOWER IS NOT WORSE - IT JUST LIMITS CAPABILITIES THAT WOULD NEVER BE USED IN THE FIRST PLACE. I think we need to move forward with a smile and realize we all come to the table with different backgrounds and different wants and needs.

One of my sons has a college degree in Peace Studies. And he works and bringing sides together. what works for individuals works the same for groups. Unlike our ridiculous political system, we can do a whole lot better. ONWARD WE GO - WE WILL SURVIVE THE CHANGE - WE HAVE A GREAT LINE OF INSTRUMENTS JUST WAITING TO BE PLAYED. GO FORWARD - NOT BACK!

Jim Hockin, Rodgers Organ Studio of Minneapolis

On Sunday, December 6, 2015 at 8:20:56 PM UTC-6, schuster wrote:
A very well considered statement, George!
 
Imagine that one of the two BIG organ manufacturers might partner up and co-op with one of the two BIG European digital organ builders. What would that mean to you and most of the historical, current and future customers?
 
One thing will be for sure: In such a scenario I could imagine a new, extremely strong joint-venture coming up that would certainly have the potential to define a new level of global market share, market penetration, diversity of products and price ranges within one such specific joint-venture.
 
Let’s face the reality: As of today, only four globally active manufacturers are sharing significant parts of the global Digital Church Organ market – which is Rodgers and Allen from the US market perspective, and Johannus and Viscount from the European part. Just imagine what a close, meaningful joint-venture between one of the US- and one of the big European guys could mean and achieve in terms of market penetration, technology-sharing, efficiency of production and distribution to the ‘good old Classical Organ Industry’…?
 
US markets are not yet used to a retail structure where organ dealers may represent and promote more than just one single organ brand – however, this is something that is quite normal in Europe and other global markets. Actually, why not…? What would be wrong if an organ dealer would offer his customers a product- and pricing range, starting from a very affordable entry-level range of home and practice organs, up to a state-of-the-art range of instruments for institutional and professional use, including individual  pipe-digital hybrid solutions? Would brand names really matter in such a scenario…?
 
Dieter
 

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Noel jones

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Dec 9, 2015, 10:11:43 AM12/9/15
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Bob,

Thank you for your email, yet another product of your fertile mind!

Almost everything that you have suggested here has already been tried at Rodgers!

And this points a huge problem in the church organ industry.

There is no trade newspaper.

While Rodgers has failed to keep the public aware of what is going on with changes, successes and even failures, so have all other organ builders.  Because there is no one interested enough to create a fair and balanced “fox News” for oprgan builders of all kinds.

The articles about new organs that appear in TAO and The Diapason are written by the builders of the organs.  While these articles are welcome, there should be reviews, yes, reviews of organs by people we could grow to trust and ignore, as we like.

As a great example, Roland put out a news release last year announcing that Roland is buying their stock back and going private, becoming employee-owned.  

And some years ago Mr. Kakehashi stepped down and no longer runs the company.

And the engineer who headed up the Roland organ division, now runs the entire Roland Group.

What you have written, as a result of this, no longer applies.

"The founder of Roland has the same philosophy as Allen and will do the same as long as he has the majority of stock holders support.  The question is what will happen when the founder has passed on or can no longer run the company.”

If there were an industry newspaper or something, this information could get out there, and everyone would have a clearer understanding of the organ business.


noel

Walter Greenwood

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Dec 9, 2015, 10:11:50 AM12/9/15
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Yes, of course, Allen has been using parts from overseas for a very long time. I don't think they have factories in other countries, but they've been buying foreign components for decades.

Nelson Dodge

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Dec 11, 2015, 9:30:28 PM12/11/15
to Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum, rmcm...@sbcglobal.net
Some clarifications....

The Roland manufacturing plant in Italy was closed a couple years ago and the production consolidated back to Japan.  The only organ models that were being built in Italy were the Roland Classic models...most of which are now discontinued.

For the past year or more, all the Rodgers, Roland and Atelier organ console models have been built in the Rodgers factory in Hillsboro.

Robert Mcmenis

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Dec 14, 2015, 1:56:40 PM12/14/15
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IN RESPONSE TO THE STATEMENT THAT MOST ROLAND CLASSIC ORGANS HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED

First question:  Why were they discontinued?

Second question:  It appears that Roland still has all its Classic series still on their web page.  Which ones have been discontinued or stated another way.  Which Roland Classic organs are still being manufactured and it "appears" that these models or their next generation models will stay around for at least the immediate future?

Robert McMenis
Minister of Worship & Organist
FUMC Smackover, AR




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Noel jones

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Dec 14, 2015, 2:13:27 PM12/14/15
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The Roland Classic series is not longer available - there was 1 (one), I repeat….1 only 380 left as of today.

There are some still out a dealers and for that reason the webpage stays up.

All Roland Classic instruments are on hiatus.

Rodgers Classic, Artist and Infinity organs are all still in production.

There is no indication that production of them will cease. None at all.

This entire process is, as it appears, in place to make it possible for Rodgers to continue building organs.

noel




Ricardo Aguiar

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Dec 14, 2015, 2:18:50 PM12/14/15
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So C-200, C-330 and C-380 are no longer being manufactured ??

> Subject: Re: Frog Music's ROUG Forum Re: Should Rodgers decide...
> From: no...@frogmusic.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 14:13:19 -0500
> To: rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
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Noel jones

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Dec 14, 2015, 3:54:57 PM12/14/15
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As I said, the Roland Classic Series is on Hiatus.

Which means that none of the Roland Classic Instruments are in production.

noel

Rodgers de

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Dec 14, 2015, 4:04:26 PM12/14/15
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Almost correct: The Roland Classic C-30 Digital Harpsichord is still in production and distributed through the global Roland sales network.

Dieter


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Von: rodgersu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rodgersu...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Noel jones
Gesendet: Montag, 14. Dezember 2015 21:55
An: rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: Re: Frog Music's ROUG Forum Re: Should Rodgers decide...

As I said, the Roland Classic Series is on Hiatus.

Which means that none of the Roland Classic Instruments are in production.

noel

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Nelson Dodge

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Dec 18, 2015, 12:11:14 AM12/18/15
to Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum
Roland Classic organs/keyboards update as of 12-17-15

The Rodgers factory has no C330/380 organs left.  I have one C330 still available.

As Dieter noted, the C-30 is still being manufactured, and is also available through some Rodgers dealers.

There is some inventory of C-230 organs still available--and in my opinion, of the Classic keyboards, this one is the most useful and versatile and is priced quite a bit less than the harpsichord.  It has the 8'-I, 8'-II, 4' harpsichord voices, but it is also an 11-stop organ with four voices on each stop plus 16 more organ voices.  It really is an amazing little portativ organ that, when hooked up some larger speakers, is capable of accompanying a chorale performance.  It is also a popular rental instrument for me--I have two out on rental this weekend for chorale performances.  Get one while you still can!  I have several in stock.

Richard Wildhirt

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Dec 18, 2015, 12:18:40 PM12/18/15
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Noel, I really appreciate the inside scoop you provide for us regarding Rodgers and the future. I can't think of how else we would find out things like the Roland Classic instruments being out of production.

Do you know if Rodgers has an e-newsletter to which we can subscribe? I mean, like one that goes to its employees or stakeholders.

Nelson, I wish I could take that  C330 off your hands, but sadly it's not in my budget. The spirit is willing, but the wallet is weak.

Rich

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