Recently I used RAM's module to look for maximum deflection of a beam (w8x35), supported with two pins at 3 ft and 17 ft (total length 20 ft), two point loads between the supports and two point loads the both ends. The answer I have is 0.464 in in the center with max shear 20.594 k at supports and max moment 46.897 kft at center as expected. It looked good all the way until I out of curiosity decided to make the same model in STAAD Pro, since I'm a new grad and I wished to familiarize myself with all those software used at my company.
Interestingly, with my STAAD model, I had max shear 20.595 k at supports and max moment 46.936 kft at center, almost same as RAM, BUT a deflection of 0.429 in in the center, which is considerably different from RAM. Again I made the same model in SAP2000 and result aligns with STAAD, with a deflection of 0.429 in in the center.
Further I went back to the RAM, instead of using module, I made a RAM model and tried to see what's the problem. To my surprise, it became worse since now the maximum values are even off the expected center or support (9.89 ft instead of 10 ft away from left end for max moment or deflection, 16.89 ft instead of 17 ft away from left end for max shear), and values differ from the module value to a tiny bit. I realized that I made everything with one member and refined it to be three members, which made max values going back to center or support and same as the module value now. Yet my deflection is still bad as it is, 0.464 in in the center.
A colleague of mine cross checked this with SAP 2000 and it also produces the same results, with amplified deflection when shear deformation is considered and total deflection of 0.46". I'm sticking with my initial answer that the shear deformation in these programs is just larger than expected because only a fraction of the total area is considered.
1, What method did you use to enable the shear deformation in SAP 2000? I'm referring to this one ( -tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=221601) and it suggests that shear deformation is enabled in default in SAP2000, just like in STAAD Pro. By following this reply to disable the shear deformation, and by inserting "SET SHEAR" command in STAAD Pro (suggested in the help manual), my result in the center is not changed and my result in both ends increases as I mentioned above, which suggests that disabling shear deformation has no effect on the center (but amplifies deflection in the end). Can you also cross checked with STAAD Pro to see the difference and to see what's "default" for SAP2000? (One thing clear is that RAM has shear deformation enabled in default).
I would suggest you first insert a node at mid-length of the beam so that this allows you to read deflections directly. Then, run the STAAD.Pro model with and without "SET SHEAR" command. Similarly for SAP2000 model, insert a node at the mid-length of the beam and run analysis twice , once with shear deformations (default) and once without shear deformations (by letting shear area multipliers be a large number). Then compare these results.
By inserting a node in the center, my STAAD Pro is now behaving the same like RAM (three members), with 0.464 (shear deformation included) and 0.433 (shear deformation not included and I'd say this is improved value compared to 0.429 in the original model). Though by adding a node I have to break the member in the center to be able to relate that node to the modelling. Is there a way that I can avoid breaking member while inserting nodes at wherever I want and seeing the reactions at those nodes?
In SAP2000, with a node in the center (member intact or segmented by this node), the result also aligns with RAM now. And here we could have the answer: Yes STAAD and SAP2000 are doing back-calculations based on end displacements and ignoring the shear deformation along the way like you suggested. And RAM is considering shear deformation all the way so result is good.
Thanks a lot, bulentNA and Seth. This seems clear now, yet it's somewhat inconvenient now that we know STAAD (and SAP2000) has issues like this and the intermediate value without setting a node there are not good enough (in my case, almost 10% less which is problematic). Regardless of SAP2000, why would STAAD Pro use a different algorithm (maybe a worse one in my case) from RAM? Anyway I'm back to work and need to find some cookies to feed my brain for now. Enjoy the week my good friends.
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I am currently a civil engineering student but I want to start learning a few programs. I know CAD well enough to not seem clueless but I want to begin to familiarize myself with SAP2000. However, SAP2000 (I think) doesn't have any educational versions to try. Does anybody know where I can find an educational version or something similar that is still commonly used?
This works pretty well but I would like to divide the code so that I can create one function for opening the program, several functions to work with it and another one to close. This would provide me flexibility to make different calculations as desired and close it afterwards.
Select the New option with project type Steel, AISC design code, and sub-code LRFD (AISC 360-16). Then select Create project.
For several FEA/BIM solutions, you can also import multiple connections into Checkbot in the same manner as above. Instead of selecting one node and the connected members, you can select several nodes and members using the selection methods within the application.
In the list of project items under Connections and with a connection highlighted in Checkbot you can either right-mouse click and select Open or click the ribbon command Open to start designing, code-checking, and reporting.
The settings of members are taken from the original FEA/BIM application. You can, however, change the section size of any member on the main Checkbot screen, but this will break the link with FEA/BIM application in this session unless it's synchronized again.
The detailed results for plates, bolts, welds, anchors can be displayed using the ribbon menu. In the image below the Deformed shape with Equivalent stress is being displayed.
Simply code-check the highlighted connections again by selecting Calculate from the Current item panel. Please remember that bigger changes in the model might require additional validation steps with the affected connections (as above).
While "Static Analysis" for SAP2000 API offers many benefits, it also has some limitations. It may not be suitable for all types of structures, such as those with complex nonlinear behavior. Additionally, the accuracy of the analysis is dependent on the quality of the input data and assumptions made during the modeling process.
I am not too sure about the latest revit structure release but as far as I know revit structure still need to export to external structural analysis program for overall structural analysis...such program such as etabs, ram..etc. not too sure about interoperatable with sap2000 but it would be a better comparison between etabs, ram with sap2000 rather than revit structure for the moment or just for now.... check out the old revitcity articles link and assess for yourself what autodesk is planning on revit structure in the near coming future (or the future is already here!!).
thought you may be able to use Revit structure as a standalone product. i think that if your are not using it to be interoperable with other parts of the building cycle, such as RAC2008 and Revit MEP 2008 use lose part of the value of using Revit Structure. if that is the case, those other programs may be a liite more mature than Revit and better suit your needs.
Everyone one on this site is more than willing to try and answer any questions when given enough information.When i see threads that start with phrases like "Thanks Pal" it sends me a red flag and may cause others to take offense with the phrase as i did. this site wants to concern itself only with increasing our knowledge of Revit. so let me just remind all of us to be respectfull of others in our posting.
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