[Fwd: Re: The 7 million gilder school ($13,000 in real money)]
heat
>
> > >
> >
> > They are probably into the Eastern European School of Design that features
> > the latest concrete block and single window per room styling for huge
> > rectangular government buildings. "Individual touches" are things like
> > room air conditioners and roll out casement windows. This probably
> > accounts for the architectural design percentage being so small as was
> > pointed out.
> >
> > Happydog:)
>
> Consider supporting your moronic attempt at irony with actual figures, HD.
> Maybe then someone will believe you. You are just guessing, and you guess
> bad.
>
> OK, now since we are talking about schools, go write on the blackboard, a
> billion times
>
> "Happydog is an idiot and a moron. He never knows what he is talking about. He is amazingly unfunny. He does not have the foggiest idea how to
discuss a subject. He only knows how to insult, and lamely at that. His
Oozenet account will be suspended; he will turn in his password voluntarily.
Bad dog, bad bad smelly dog."
>
> And don't you dare use cut and paste, or you will have to rewrite it 2
> billion more times
heat
Foreward:
There is a real fact about architecture in this post. Feel free to
scroll through the insults to get the one and only architecture fact at the
bottom. You will know it is an important architecture fact by the built
in asterisks. Use your edit function to find the *****
HD's stand up comedy routine is really not worth reading, but if you really
feel like it go ahead. I recommend scrolling down to the asterisks below
happydog formed an incomplete thought:
>
>>
> I would guess that the Eastern Europeans still use "blackboards" maybe
to which Heat answered:
yeah sure, I'll enlighten you. Tho I am sure most of the people reading this
already know this. Sure they use blackboards. A class of Eastern European
students cannot see the ringbinders and notebooks on the teachers desk when
she tries to diagram the advanced integral calculus problem. Thus, the
Eastern Europeans use a blackboard in front of the class, so everyone can see
what the teacher is writing. Those tiny notebooks cause eye strain, even if
you are sitting in the front row
then HD spewed another thought fragment:
> even slate and chalk instead of ringbinders and notebooks.
to which Heat countered:
Actually, after the tacher is done the lesson at the blackboard, the
individual Eastern European students solve the calculus problems. Instead of
ringbinders and notebooks, they use Powerbooks (Macs), laptops, Palm Pilots
and Cassiopeias. They haven't seen ringbinders and notebooks in those
classrooms in decades.
Then HD further blessed us with his further misperceptions, continuing to
insult all Americans everywhere, still insinuating that they are
technologically behind the rest of the world:
:
> I haven't seen "blackboards" in schools for years, maybe decades.
To which Heat snidely replied:
Yeah I guess not, in kindergarten they only use fingerpaint
and here are some of the fingerpaint hieroglyphics they taught you there:
Happydog is an ass (_!_)
Happydog is a big dumb ass (_?_)
Happydog is a big dumb tired ass (_zzz_)
And then for some big time news, HD added:
> Eastern Europeans probably catch the schoolcamel instead of the schoolbus.
And Heat answered:
Yeah those durn wacky Germans, what will they think of Next.
I don't know why you keep picking on those poor Germans. Isn't there anyone
of German persuasion here that could convince HD there are no camels in
Germany, or anywhere in Eastern Europe. Other than cigarettes I mean
And then HD added something of little importance:
> Maybe heat will enlighten us on other quaint Eastern European customs.
>
> Happydog:)
and Heat complied:
Sure here is one custom that I will enlighten you on
When someone is as stupid as you, they get to (_x_) kiss my ass
********
!!!!!!!
AND HERE"S THE ARCHITECTURAL FACT!!!!!!!
************
Incidentally, have you checked with any of your architect friends to
determine what huge percentage of a project their fee is? Oh no, I forgot,
you don't have friends...
No facts, so of course your discussion goes to insults instead
For those of you who are still wondering, the maximum an architect charges in
any given situation is 10 percent of the projected cost of the project, but
more frequently, it is much less
happydog
>> OK, now since we are talking about schools, go write on the blackboard,
a
>> billion times
>>
>> "Happydog is an idiot and a moron. He never knows what he is talking
about. He is amazingly unfunny. He does not have the foggiest idea how
to
>discuss a subject. He only knows how to insult, and lamely at that. His
>Oozenet account will be suspended; he will turn in his password
voluntarily.
> Bad dog, bad bad smelly dog."
>>
I would guess that the Eastern Europeans still use "blackboards" maybe
even slate and chalk instead of ringbinders and notebooks.
I haven't seen "blackboards" in schools for years, maybe decades.
Eastern Europeans probably catch the schoolcamel instead of the schoolbus.
TierraInc
The 1997 edition of Means Building Construction Cost Data gives the
following median figures for school construction, exclusive of
sitework.
Type per square foot per pupil
=====================================
elementary $73.00 $9,800
middle $75.00 $8,700
high school $75.65 $10,000
vocational $75.30 $19,800
What I want to know is how come the kid behind the counter
at McDonalds, posessing a gen-u-ine high school diploma,
has no clue how to make change.
Bob Felton
happydog
In article <01bd2296$c77f7620$1d1656d1@newmicronpc>,
tier...@mindspring.com says...
math and her complaint was they didn't want to learn.
I suggested instead of kicking off the year teaching math give them
problems for about the first two weeks that they had to use math to solve.
something they didn't know that she would be teaching them.
She thought this an excellent idea but said she would have to shorten the
time from two weeks.
There is no challenge for children to tell time by anything other than a
digital watch. Tie their shoes because we have velcro. Learn to make
change because the register does that for you.
Most of us are happier struggling to get things than we are to have
things. It's the same with knowledge.
Happydog:)
Lewis Jorgenson
tier...@mindspring.com wrote:
Bob Felton:
The 1997 edition of Means Building Construction Cost Data gives the
following median figures for school construction, exclusive of
sitework.
Type per square foot per pupil
=====================================
elementary $73.00 $9,800
middle $75.00 $8,700
high school $75.65 $10,000
vocational $75.30 $19,800
Lewis:
What do elementary schools have that lowers their price
2 dollars per square foot? Smaller toilets?
So for 70 dollars a square foot and a 7 million dollar
budget, the school should have 700,000 square feet. I guess
the 7 million includes sitework where we move from construction
to landscape preparation.
I think my double wide is 1,500 square feet and 100 of them
would have 150,000 square feet.
For the 600 students we have $5,880,000 which is way under the
7 million.
Bob Felton:
What I want to know is how come the kid behind the counter
at McDonalds, posessing a gen-u-ine high school diploma,
has no clue how to make change.
Lewis:
Either he was taught to be a Democrat and the government
will figure out the correct change for him or he was taught
to be a Republican and a business computer will figure out
the correct change. Leave it to the government or leave it
to the market. I don't really trust either and we need both
to keep an eye on each other with folks keeping an eye on
both of them.
That is why I was trying to figure out why one could buy
100 brand new 3 bedroom mobile homes for the price of
one school.
Lewis Vance Jorgenson
Robert M. Felton
> So for 70 dollars a square foot and a 7 million dollar
> budget, the school should have 700,000 square feet. I guess
> the 7 million includes sitework where we move from construction
> to landscape preparation.
1) I come up with 100,000 square feet.
2) It may include landscaping, but "sitework" ordinarily means cutting,
filling, compaction, and all that - and all that varies from one site to
another.
> For the 600 students we have $5,880,000 which is way under the
> 7 million.
That per-square-foot cost is a national median figure, remember, and
represents what the owner has spent on the day the contractor gives the
keys to the mayor. It doesn't include the other stuff the owner has to
purchase in order to place the building into service - books, desks for
teachers, and so forth.
By the way: I'm spending 3500/10-months to keep my son in a private school
that totally tromps Raleigh, NC-area schools academically. The state is
spending about twice that to produce the next-to-lowest SAT scores in the
nation. Personally, I think we need hard-nosed emphasis on academics and
less sensitivity more than we need grand campuses.
We used to know how to educate kids. We knew it so well that we put men on
the moon and, even more astoundingly, recovered Apollo 13 safely. We
created every labor-saving appliance, doodad and luxury our minds could
conceive. Now, it's the literal truth that we're graduating kids from high
school that can't read their own diplomas. (I had some of them in a class
I taught at VWCC.) The real problem is that we haven't got the community
will to demand the best - not from our hired help, nor even from our own
children.
Bob Felton
Lewis Jorgenson
rmfe...@mindspring.com wrote:
Jorgenson:
> So for 70 dollars a square foot and a 7 million dollar
> budget, the school should have 700,000 square feet. I guess
> the 7 million includes sitework where we move from construction
> to landscape preparation.
Felton:
1) I come up with 100,000 square feet.
Jorgenson:
You are correct. I guess my last math brain cell is about shot.
Felton:
2) It may include landscaping, but "sitework" ordinarily means cutting,
filling, compaction, and all that - and all that varies from one site to
another.
Jorgenson:
Ok. I assume actual landscaping is yet another expense.
> For the 600 students we have $5,880,000 which is way under the
> 7 million.
Felton:
That per-square-foot cost is a national median figure, remember, and
represents what the owner has spent on the day the contractor gives the
keys to the mayor. It doesn't include the other stuff the owner has to
purchase in order to place the building into service - books, desks for
teachers, and so forth.
Jorgenson:
Ok.
Felton:
By the way: I'm spending 3500/10-months to keep my son in a private
school
that totally tromps Raleigh, NC-area schools academically. The state is
spending about twice that to produce the next-to-lowest SAT scores in
the
nation. Personally, I think we need hard-nosed emphasis on academics
and
less sensitivity more than we need grand campuses.
Jorgenson:
I keep recommending smaller classes with teachers that ensure the
students learn the material. I assumed Raleigh/Durham would
have phd professors keeping an eye on how their kids are educated.
Felton:
We used to know how to educate kids. We knew it so well that we put men
on
the moon and, even more astoundingly, recovered Apollo 13 safely. We
created every labor-saving appliance, doodad and luxury our minds could
conceive. Now, it's the literal truth that we're graduating kids from
high
school that can't read their own diplomas. (I had some of them in a
class
I taught at VWCC.) The real problem is that we haven't got the
community
will to demand the best - not from our hired help, nor even from our own
children.
Jorgenson:
I think you are overstating the problem and that is ok because it is
a serious problem that demands parents and city and county and state
and federal action. They had counties in Florida with consistent
dropout rates above 50 percent. And those dropouts apparently go into
a life of crime and so Florida is also leading the country in prison
space construction. The parents and legislators do not seem to see
the association between those facts. Then again my mom was waiting
for me after school and I had to come straight home. The economy
nowadays requires both parents to work and so Jill and Johnny are
free to get into whatever mischief I would have gotten into if I
did not have parental supervision. If I had discovered the cheap
thrills I may have chosen the wrong path also. I put another post
about education here also.
Lewis Vance Jorgenson
happydog
You all fall into that same old trap about class size. Only the very
slowest should get any personal attention from the teacher. That is the
"excuse" that's given for everything that's wrong with the education
system, class size. This way everything can be blamed on class size and no
one is accountable. Studies have shown that class size means nothing, The
larger classes have just as many students to ratio doing well as smaller
class sizes. Many students want the anonymity of larger classes.
Happydog:)
Lewis Jorgenson
alla...@roanoke.infi.net (happydog) wrote:
Happydog:
Jorgenson:
Right. 5 students in a class of 50 will earn As and 5 students in
a class of 5 will earn As. We can throw the bell curve nonsense
out the window when the sample is too small for it to be applicable.
Reducing class size does increase academic achievement if that is
what the schools are trying to do. Once you get students interested
in learning then it does not matter what size the class is and some
will indeed prefer anonymity.
Lewis Vance Jorgenson