Examples of consuming the JSONP feed?

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Martin Duffy

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Dec 30, 2010, 6:33:53 PM12/30/10
to River of news
So far I've got the following examples consuming Dave's JSONP news
feed:

Shawn McCollum http://tubejumper.com/winer_feed.html

Ken Booth demo at http://www.kenbooth.net/newsriver

Nicolas Gallagher has a nice clean river at http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks

Daniel's river at http://wikiriver.danielbachhuber.com/ does auto-
update, but the polling fequency is 5 sec which is way too short so
would not recommend using this as it will hammer dave's server.

Martimedia updated river at http://martimedia.com/river now includes
auto-updates, sort, and search

Martimedia mobile river at http://martimedia.com/river/news.mobile.htm
uses jQuery mobile library

Havagan's river at http://river.havagan.com/

Any others, then please reply to this thread.

Martin

Dave Winer

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Dec 30, 2010, 8:53:48 PM12/30/10
to River of news
First, these are all very nice to my eye, some sweeter than others,
and some more pragmatic.

I've been using rivers for a long time. Did my first one in 1999. And
have been using them continuously since.

So for the new rendering of the wikiriver.org site, I have
"requirements." There's a fair amount of thought behind them.

1. The grouping of items is important. If there are three items from
one feed there should be a visual grouping. The three items having the
same icon is nice, but it's not enough. A horizontal bar with the name
of the feed is pretty much required, so as I scan I can see the name
of the feed at least as prominent as the titles of the stories.
Because where an item comes from is an important consideration. In
WikiLeaks, I pay more attention to the Guardian, for example, than I
do to the Huffington Post -- because the former is leading the
journalism of the Wikileaks story, and Huffpost is mostly summarizing
the work of others.

2. There's no need to repeat the source on each of the items in the
group. That just gives me information that my eye has already picked
up.

3. I need to see the time for each update, again for the group, not
for each item. All items in the group came in at the same time. I
trust this time much more than I trust the time in the feed, the
pubDate. It would be nice if I could set a pref that says what
timezone I'm in and how I prefer to have my dates formatted.
Reprogramming my brain is not nearly so easy as reprogramming the
software.

4. For marketing/political reasons I don't want to have links
toTwitter or Facebook. I'm hoping to create tools that operate
independently of the corporate silos. It's inconsistent with this
philosophy to be encouraging people to use them. I use Twitter a lot,
so I'm not saying people shouldn't use them. I just don't want them to
be part of the user interface for this website.

5. I'm nowhere near as good an HTML designer as you guys are, but I do
know rivers, so look for ways to improve on the http://wikiriver.org/
-- steal the basic structure from it. It's proven to work pretty well.
I just want it to be beautiful and esthetic as well.





On Dec 30, 6:33 pm, Martin Duffy <duffym...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> So far I've got the following examples consuming Dave's JSONP news
> feed:
>
> Shawn McCollum  http://tubejumper.com/winer_feed.html
>
> Ken Booth demo athttp://www.kenbooth.net/newsriver
>
> Nicolas Gallagher has a nice clean river athttp://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks
>
> Daniel's river athttp://wikiriver.danielbachhuber.com/does auto-
> update, but the polling fequency is 5 sec which is way too short so
> would not recommend using this as it will hammer dave's server.
>
> Martimedia updated river athttp://martimedia.com/rivernow includes
> auto-updates, sort, and search
>
> Martimedia mobile river athttp://martimedia.com/river/news.mobile.htm
> uses jQuery mobile library
>
> Havagan's river athttp://river.havagan.com/

kosso

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Dec 30, 2010, 9:40:37 PM12/30/10
to River of news
I suppose the grouping which I did for everything (grouping all items
from one particular feed in to a 'group' for that feed) is what led to
the thought that you saw it as an 'outliner'. I do see that.

But I also agree with what you say about which feeds you want to pay
attentio to most, out of the ones you are aggregating:
I'm not that interested in reading what Fox News has to say about the
situation (unless I need a good laugh at their expense ;p)
(this is also why I display the host domain in my version, since some
of the feed titles (notably Fox News) does not say that in the feed
provided.

In my interfaces, what I'll do is make an option of how the user wants
to see the news. (it makes do difference to me what it's called
'River', 'Delta', 'Canal', 'Ladder', 'Fruitbowl' whatever ;p ) but
sometimes I want different experiences. This is also why I created a
modified version of the data to enable easier 'grouping'.

I also understand 'your' polital/marketing reason what you do not want
Facebook/Twitter/etc to be part of what you would like to see, but
personally, when I read an article about something that I'd like to
easily share with with my social networks, to get the word out as
easily as possible, that's why I'm adding that functionality in there.
I do hear ya when you talk about 'silos' though. (Look at what's
happening right now with delicious)

To me, it's more about choice, awareness, sharing, fun and usefulness
for as many people as possible.

I've always loved the concept of 'Rivers'. (Remember than animation I
did years ago? ;p ) And the notion of 'things' (media, news, audio,
video, whatever) passing by the riverbank for us to pick and choose
what we want to consume. But over the years of building these things
I've found that optional data supplies and optional interfaces are the
way to go. There's always someone who wants one thing rather than
another thing. So I like to give both.

I might even have a bash this week on building my own 'River' scripts
using PHP and MySql and open-source them so we can build on the
concept, rather than have to poll your servers all the time. Let it
evolve. See what happens. Keep digging. etc. :)

peace, and have a great New Year!
Kosso
> know rivers, so look for ways to improve on thehttp://wikiriver.org/

Brian Hendrickson

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Dec 31, 2010, 4:32:25 AM12/31/10
to River of news

Hi river-fans,

My jQuery Mobile river is at:

http://dejafeed.com

It's still a work-in-progress. If you have any ideas for improvements,
I'm all ears! thanks a lot for checking it out.

-- Brian

Nicolas

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Dec 31, 2010, 8:39:42 AM12/31/10
to River of news
I've updated my presentation of the rivers to cater to some of Dave's
feedback:

http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/
http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/ (feed is often 'corrupted'
though)

1. Each update block now has the feed's name included at the top. The
favicon of the site is only displayed once (alongside the feed name)
for each block. Including a favicon is one way of helping to quickly
identify the source of a story (not all feed names make that clear,
e.g., the foxnews feed).

2. No repetition of the source/domain

3. Each group has the time it came in at.

4. I've left the twitter and facebook links in on my site. Should you
want to use this design in some way, it wouldn't affect the general
presentation for those links to be removed or replaced with *Comment
*Download enclosure when those options are available.

I also updated the header of the page so that it doesn't take up so
much space and there is an area for a supporting explanation (e.g.
"All the news about WikiLeaks in one place, updated in real time").
> know rivers, so look for ways to improve on thehttp://wikiriver.org/

Dave Winer

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Dec 31, 2010, 9:15:18 AM12/31/10
to River of news
Nicolas -- THANK YOU for taking up the "requirements" I posted. Now
here are some comments.

1. I will look into why http://daveriver.scripting.com/index.json is
"corrupted." That's not good! :-)

2. I think the favicon should be displayed next to every story
headline. That helps the eye find the headline, and doesn't seem to
create more information for the brain to parse. It's a very nice
visual element, a bit of color, and is worth repeating.

For now, let's assume we're transitioning this to be the primary
display at http://wikiriver.org/, so if you could prepare a version
without the Twitter and Facebook links, and please -- links to the
comments and enclosure, when present, would be great as well.

How to give credit.

First if this is the display that we use, I want to give primary
credit to Nicolas, but also want to mention the work of the other
people who did rivers, in the footer of the page. With links to
whatever you guys want linked to, so start thinking about that. This
was a collaborative process, where people's work built on the work of
others, so it's important that teh credit be shared.

As we get close to topping off this project, I'm starting to think
about how to specify the next ones...

Dave


On Dec 31, 8:39 am, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've updated my presentation of the rivers to cater to some of Dave's
> feedback:
>
> http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/(feed is often 'corrupted'

Martin Duffy

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:16:14 AM12/31/10
to River of news
Dave,

Taking on board your comments ( but ignoring the icon per story as I
though it looked too busy) and supporting both V1 and V3 feed formats
I've updated my demo at http://martimedia.com/river/

I've tried to keep it simple (1 file) to enable others to build their
own versions.

Nicolas - well done on your feed, it's looking v good.

Happy 2011,

Martin

Daniel Bachhuber

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:34:10 AM12/31/10
to river-...@googlegroups.com
This is quite nice. Good work.

--
http://db.ly/info

Dave Winer

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Jan 1, 2011, 6:07:43 PM1/1/11
to River of news
Nic, while watching the Rose Bowl, I was taking a look at the various
rivers.

Here's a screen shot of the one you're doing viewed on my Mac running
Firefox 3.6.13.

http://scripting.com/images/2011/01/01/nicview.gif

This looks very different from the way it looked a couple of days
ago..

Dave



On Dec 31 2010, 8:39 am, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've updated my presentation of the rivers to cater to some of Dave's
> feedback:
>
> http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/(feed is often 'corrupted'

Nicolas

unread,
Jan 2, 2011, 10:44:00 AM1/2/11
to River of news
Dave, thank you for the heads up.

It was an unclosed hgroup tag in the header. I'll be doing a full
round of browser testing and checks when I push the next update, to
ensure that if you would like to use it for your own purposes the HTML
and CSS is as robust as possible.


On Jan 1, 11:07 pm, Dave Winer <dave.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nic, while watching the Rose Bowl, I was taking a look at the various
> rivers.
>
> Here's a screen shot of the one you're doing viewed on my Mac running
> Firefox 3.6.13.
>
> http://scripting.com/images/2011/01/01/nicview.gif
>
> This looks very different from the way it looked a couple of days
> ago..
>
> Dave
>
> On Dec 31 2010, 8:39 am, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've updated my presentation of the rivers to cater to some of Dave's
> > feedback:
>
> >http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/http://nicolasgallagher....is often 'corrupted'

Nicolas

unread,
Jan 3, 2011, 12:42:56 AM1/3/11
to River of news
I've pushed some updates to my rivers (might need to clear the cache):

http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/
http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/

1. Removed the links to twitter/facebook

2. Moved the link to download enclosures so that it sits under the
items (now comments & enclosures are shown there). The enclosure type
and size is also displayed.

3. Changed the link on the title of the source. It now points to the
feed website (if available). A link to the RSS feed is provided next
to the title.

4. Changed the way the update time is displayed to make it a little
easier to read (AM/PM rather than 24hr format). JS date functions have
been updated to use dateFormat().

5. Removed the HTML5 elements from the stream template because IE and
jQuery don't play along with dynamically inserted HTML5 elements.

6. Added a few extra styles to make sure IE6 and IE7 users don't have
any awkward display issues.

7. Changed the styles for narrow viewports to improve the experience
on mobile devices

8. Tested in Firefox 2.0+, Chrome, Opera, IE6, IE7, IE8

Is there anything I've missed?

I tried added the favicons to each item, but like Martin I found that
it became too busy now that the title of the source has been added.
Hope you don't mind that I've left it out.


Martin, thanks for the comments and for sharing your templating work
that several of us have benefited from. Your single-page solution made
it very easy to jump in and start experimenting with the interface.
Much appreciated.


On Jan 2, 3:44 pm, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave, thank you for the heads up.
>
> It was an unclosed hgroup tag in the header. I'll be doing a full
> round of browser testing and checks when I push the next update, to
> ensure that if you would like to use it for your own purposes the HTML
> and CSS is as robust as possible.
>
> On Jan 1, 11:07 pm, Dave  Winer <dave.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Nic, while watching the Rose Bowl, I was taking a look at the various
> > rivers.
>
> > Here's a screen shot of the one you're doing viewed on my Mac running
> > Firefox 3.6.13.
>
> >http://scripting.com/images/2011/01/01/nicview.gif
>
> > This looks very different from the way it looked a couple of days
> > ago..
>
> > Dave
>
> > On Dec 31 2010, 8:39 am, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I've updated my presentation of the rivers to cater to some of Dave's
> > > feedback:
>
> > >http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/http://nicolasgallagher....often 'corrupted'

Dave Winer

unread,
Jan 3, 2011, 9:54:50 AM1/3/11
to River of news
Thank you for picking up the ball here.

I have some notes on your changes, requests for further (very small)
tweaks, a plan with some questions.

1. Instead of saying "RSS," say "Feed" -- because some of the feeds
are Atom, and you never know, there may be more formats in the future.
I usually use the white-on-orange XML icon here, to reinforce that,
and to side-step this issue.

2. I like the way you changed the way the time is displayed. If
possible, I would also delete the space betw the time and AM/PM and
put a semicolon after the time to separate it from the date. It's okay
that you used the European form of the date, I wouldn't have, but
that's a matter of preference, and I kind of like the idea of bowing
to the Europeans just this once. :-)

3. I'll go with you on the favicons for each item. Not a big deal. I
think the site is quite skimmable the way it is, and that's the most
important thing about River of News. It's also very attractive.

About how we're going to do this transition, I assume it's okay with
you if I edit the positioning text. I will preserve your text at the
bottom of the page, and add my own before it. I will also link to the
other people who made contributions by producing River candidates here
on the list. They were all good, I just happened to prefer this one. I
want to give everyone an incentive to continue the process, as we do
more rendering for different JSONified XML data structures.

Timing. Today is booked, I have a podcast at noon, then meetings after
that. I might get to play with this in the evening if all goes well,
but tomorrow morning at the latest. Think about how you want me to do
this work. Also think about any changes that might be needed as we go
forward.

Thanks again Nicolas!

Dave





On Jan 3, 12:42 am, Nicolas <nicolasgallag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've pushed some updates to my rivers (might need to clear the cache):
>
> http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/
> > > >http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/wikileaks/http://nicolasgallagher....'corrupted'

Nicolas

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Jan 3, 2011, 4:37:23 PM1/3/11
to River of news
Thanks Dave

1. I've updated this to say "Feed" -- I had experimented with saying
XML or Feed, using icons, and replacing the source's favicon with an
RSS icon. My concern with XML was that it won't be clear to many what
that means. Happy with Feed.

2. My first thought was also to remove the space before AM/PM (to
mirror how I write times by hand) but it actually makes reading the
time much harder. I've left the space in there (as it is on
wikiriver.org too) and added the semi-colon after AM/PM. The European
date format is just my preference; feel free to change it to best suit
the expectations of those using the river!

Yes of course, edit any text you want (including the text in the
footer) to suit your needs and make sense in a new context.

One things that others have touched on and I think would be useful is
a twitter-style update notification -- a notice appears ("5 new
items"), you click on it and it adds the latest items to the feed
without reloading the whole page. Hopefully others can help with this
if there is interest. It's something I'd like to learn how to do once
I've got a bit more time.

Ideally, I'd like to shift my entire build over to a predominantly
server-side solution so that it works without JavaScript. It would
improve accessibility and allow me to move back to using HTML5
elements in the stream. A JavaScript layer could then add the display
toggles and retrieve new updates without reloading. That should keep
me entertained for a little bit and teach me plenty of new things.
> >http://nicolasgallagher.com/rivers/news/http://nicolasgallagher.com/r...
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