Re: Alex's Fall training log

[Alex M]

8/27/13

Early:

Incline Press - 

210x5,5,5

Deadlift - 

405x2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2 - alternating between sumo/conventional. Focus on bar speed.

495x1,1,1,1,1 - all sumo

Pendlay Row - 

315x5,5,5

BOR - 

225x5,5,5

Late:

DB shoulder press - 

75x5 - was going to do a 5x5, but wrists were killin me so I shut this down.

Shrugs - 

135x20

225x20

315x10

405x10

495x10

135x50

BTN lat pulldown - 

70x15, 15

My back is tired, and when I back is tired everything is affected. Not sure how tomorrow will go.

[Bob Stevens]

What kind of gear? "Prescription" or pro hormones? How long of a cycle?

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[Bob Stevens]

Cool, you going to be at RIT this weekend? I'd like to hear more...

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Prescription", been blasting for 4 weeks, doing that for 10 more, then cruising.

[Alex M]

Yeah I'll be there on Saturday before and after the meeting. I don't move until Friday so I'll be there tomorrow and Thursday as well.

[Louie P]

"I'm on a small amount of gear,"

What's the fun in a small amount?

[Bob Stevens]

Maybe its relative, like he weighs 230lbs, and is on 1g of test, ya know, small amount. Haha

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Louie P <louiep...@gmail.com> wrote:

"I'm on a small amount of gear,"

What's the fun in a small amount?

--

[Bob Stevens]

Did you get bloodwork done pre cycle? What's your plan for PCT? Clomid/Nolva?

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lol well since its my first blast I'm trying to get the most I can out of the least amount of gear. It'll help me gauge side effects too. I'm on 2 compounds totaling 550mg per week. Definitely enhanced but im not juicing my brains out.

Putting on good muscle with that of course, but the fat loss has been way more dramatic, even with the increased appetite. I'll eat 8000 calories of pizza and cookies and wake up a half pound lighter. I must have really shitty genetic nutrient partitioning or something.

[Bob Stevens]

Interesting, when is you're next blood test? I'm assuming your test levels are going to start declining unless you increase dosage. Is that the case? What compounds are you on? 

Also, friend of mine's son had that surgery done recently, its like a 4 week recovery right? when are you planning on having it done? 

Its funny how you and I are very similar body wise, except you are much more meso, and I'm more endo. I did the same very rapid weight loss years ago, and I still think my body hasn't recovered. Did your doctor have any concerns with you starting a cycle so soon after your weight loss? 

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

As far as none-blood test issues, my blood pressure, body temp and resting heart rate are elevated. BP sits around 145/70, body temp has been from 99 to 99.6. Don't remember heart rate last time I checked but it was high.

[Louie P]

Is the gyno surgery covered under insurance or is it considered a cosmetic surgery? and why would you drive to NH to get blood work done and not just get it done here?

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:37:41 PM UTC-4, Alex M wrote:

Test should stay the same as long as I keep the same dosage.

I haven't set a date for the surgery yet, I want it ASAP but might not be until January. I can pick up 200 iu of hygetropin pretty cheap right now. I think i will and ill see if that helps the healing. At the very least it'll keep me from gaining fat during recovery. Doc said to take 6 weeks off, but fuck that. I'll take 2 and see how I feel.

Didn't tell my doctor about my gear usage. I got the blood test from a private lab. Had to travel to NH and use a fake address but they didn't even ask for ID.

[Louie P]

How much is the surgery? I bet it's a bit pricey having to pay out of pocket but will be worth it once you're done. Didn't know that about blood work either, I always got it through my doctor. I just read online that NY, NJ, MA, MD or RI all need a script. I wonder why that is

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:07:09 PM UTC-4, Alex M wrote:

It's cosmetic, I'm paying out of pocket. You need a prescription to get blood work in NY, MA and most other states in the northeast. NH being an exception. It was a quick drive when I was living in Boston.

[Alex M]

It's going to be about 5k. Definitely worth every penny

8/28/13

Only time for one session today :(

Bench Press(paused) - 

235x5,5,5,5,5

135x20,20,20

Tbar row - 

4platesx10,10,10,10

DB lateral raise >> DB front raise - 

25x10, 10 >> 25x10, 10

Pushup >> DB flye - 

BWx15, 15 >> 25x25, 25

Rope Pushdown - 

50x20,20,20

Rope Curl - 

30x20,20,20

My back was tired as expected, but today was a nice rest for it. It's already feeling antsy, it wants to lift stuff.

[Alex M]

8/29/13

OHP - 

160x4 - Im gonna pretend this didnt happen. Last time I OHPed 160 I did 3 sets of 5 easily, and that was after heavy Incline. This was disappointing.

Deadlift - 

135x10

225x10

315x10

405x10

405x1,1,1,1,1 

455x1,1,1,1,1 - max explosiveness, swapping conv/sumo

405x5,5

One-legged leg curls - 

25x15,15,15

One-legged leg press - 

1ppsx8,8,8

Leg ext.

75x15,15,20

Stairmaster - 

10 min HIIT

Treadmill - 

20 min LISS

Allergies bugging me today, but overall a fun session, just listening to metal and picking stuff up.

[Alex M]

8/31/13

Early:

Bench press -
185x10,10
225x5,5,5
185x10,10,10,10,10

OHP -
115x10,10,10,10,10

Upright row -
60x15,15,15,15,15

Db lateral -
15x15,15,15,15,15

Db front raise -
15x15,15,15,15,15

Late:

Block pulls -
495x3
585x1
495x3,3,3

BTN lat pulldown -
70x15,15,15,15,15

Cable row -
115x15,15,15,15,15

Rope pushdown -
50x25,25,25,25,25

Rope curl -
30x25,25,25,25,26

[Alex M]

9/3/13

Finally have a gym in Auburn.

Bench press(paused) -
240x5x5

Deadlift -
Up to 495x3 Sumo

SLDL -
315x10,10

HS low row -
1ppsx15,15,15

Shrug -
225x20,20,20

Haven't filmed my bench in forever so I filmed my first set today. Might be hard to tell with the angle and fat man hoody but it looks pretty solid to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=U8WsSaoJYfI&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU8WsSaoJYfI%26feature%3Dyoutube_gdata_player

[Bob Stevens]

What's all this push/pull shenanigans? Where are the squats? You don't want to be one of those guys who deadlifts 200lbs more than he squats.... :p

[Alex M]

Hey I can only deadlift like 150 lbs more than I can squat. I didn't squat for like 6 weeks over the summer. I've mentioned my calf problem before, where they cramp up or spasm. I don't know what it is exactly but the muscle will start flexing uncontrollably and it feels like its trying to rip itself off the bone. Its debilitating. That happened 3 squat sessions in a row so I just stopped. I squat a little right before I started this log, just up to 315 but it was fine. Squats and OHP planned for tonight. Starting really really light.

[Bob Stevens]

Any updates worth noting? How's training and how are you feeling in regards to supplements ;)

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey I can only deadlift like 150 lbs more than I can squat. I didn't squat for like 6 weeks over the summer. I've mentioned my calf problem before, where they cramp up or spasm. I don't know what it is exactly but the muscle will start flexing uncontrollably and it feels like its trying to rip itself off the bone. Its debilitating. That happened 3 squat sessions in a row so I just stopped. I squat a little right before I started this log, just up to 315 but it was fine. Squats and OHP planned for tonight. Starting really really light.

[Bob Stevens]

Not that I know any better, but being your first time on gear I would think atleast being at maintenance cals would be a good idea, and help maximize results. You don't have to eat 10kcal a day, but a deficit, along with increased work loads is asking for trouble. 

How many calories are you taking in per day? 

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll get back to regular posting once I get Internet at my new place on Friday. Training has been fine. I'm learning now more than ever how important food is to strength. Even with the gear, a calorie deficit destroys my strength. Squats have been frustrating but I'm going to work on it and hopefully match my 455 at the fall minimeet. The gear should at least allow me that even in a deficit.

My job has me testing medical software so I'm able to track my vitals all day every day. BP has gone down a bit but seems to spike once in a while. Usually I'm between 130-140. Everything else is in healthy range always.

Libido is out of control. Would be cool if I had a girlfriend but I don't so it's just getting me into trouble lol. Many girls blocking me on Facebook these days.

[Alex M]

3600 cals/day losing .3-.5 lbs per week. Haven't started any real cardio yet.

[Tiny]

I've been told by quite a few people that you'll know if your ghrp-6 is good if you get really hungry after taking it. Never done it myself, just things I hear through the grapevine. 

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 12:37:39 PM UTC-5, Alex M wrote:

I should also add here that I started taking peptides after reading a lot that they were about as effective as shitty generic Chinese gh, but way cheaper and easier to get. I'm pretty skeptical of them but I get all the sides of a gh pulse when I take them. I'm doing ghrp-6 and mod grf-1 200mcg each per day, split between 2 doses. Not yet sure if they are worth the hassle.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

Maybe hand numbness would go away if you had a girlfriend :D

Are you coming to train on campus any time soon?

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:24:17 PM UTC-4, Alex M wrote:

Yeah, appetite and hand numbness are the most apparent side effects for me in the hour or so after a pin.

[Alex M]

Maybe.....is your sister available? Lol jk. I'll be at RIT pretty much every Saturday and whenever those seminars end up being, ill be there.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

Remind me to kill you after we get done lifting

[Alex M]

What? You don't want her to be happy? :)

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

I'll show you happy!!

Go find some biochem major chick so she can make your shit in a bathtub :D Didn't you learn anything from Breaking Bad?

[Alex M]

9/16/13

One leg curl -
35x12,12,12

Bad girl -
100x20,20,20

Good girl -
100x20,20,20

BOR -
165x15,15,15

Chins -
8,5,5

CS row -
45x15,15,15,15,15,15 - swapping neutral/prone grip

Rope pushdown >> rope curl -
60x20,20,20 >> 30x20,20,20

Stepmill -
10 min HIIT

[Alex M]

9/17/13

Bench Press - 

225x8,8,7

Incline press - 

185x8,6,6

HS lateral - 

25x15,15,15,15,15

Upright row - 

70x15,15,15

DB ohp - 

35x20,20, failure

Tricep ext. - 

40x20,20,failure

DB curl - 

20x15,15,failure

I don't think I'm using enough weight on most of these. Perhaps a little too concerned with contractions and form...will step it up next time.

[Alex M]

9/18/13

Deadlift - 

405x5,5,5,5,5 - alt. sumo/conv

Smith machine shrugs - 

315x12,12,12,12,12

Lat pulldowns - 

110x12,12,12,12,12

Front raise - 

25x15,15,15,15

[Bob Stevens]

I don't think I'm using enough weight on most of these. Perhaps a little too concerned with contractions and form...will step it up next time.

Depends on your goal. Want to get bigger? Keep concentration on the muscle contraction and form. Wanna get stronger? Start waving the weights and follow a progression of some sort to push the weight higher. I'd love to see you follow some sort of progression or plan with the bigger lifts. Even though I am also a big fan of doing whatever you feel like, sometimes some structure, beyond just training hard, can be beneficial. 

[Alex M]

9/20/13

One leg curl - 

35x12,12

Bad girl - 

85x20,20

Good girl - 

85x20,20

Squats - 

225x5,5,5

Deficit deadlift - 

Up to 405x3

Stiff leg deadlift - 

405x10,10

BTN press - 

115x10,10,10,10,7

HS lateral raise - 

25x15,15,15

DB overhead - 

35x20,20,20,20,20

DB curl - 

35x10,10,10,10,10

EZ curl - 

40x20,20,20

Feeling some improvement in my squat. Wish I had kept it lighter so I could get more reps in before it got painful. I actually stepped outside zone today, poured myself into a wifebeater and trained in that so I could take a good look at my delts. Seeing some improvements there too, but they're still quite flat compared to other things.

[Alex M]

9/22/13

Incline Press - 

195x8,8,8

OHP - 

135x8,8,8

Pec Dec - 

90x15,15,15,15,15

Reverse Pec Dec - 

70x15,15,15,15,15

Machine lateral - 

50x15,15,15,15,15

EZ bar curl - 

70x12,12,12

9/23/13

One leg curl - 

35x12,12,12

Bad girl - 

115x15,15,15

Good girl - 

115x15,15,15

Squat - 

155x20,20

CS row - 

70x15,15,15,15,15 - neutral grip

Went to a wedding on Saturday, somehow Sundays training was great, then totally crashed today. At least I got some squats in. They are feeling better every session.

[Alex M]

9/25/2013

Bench Press(paused) - 

255x3x3

185x13

Sumo Deadlift - 

475x1

515x1

545x1

405x8 - Was told I need to stop deadlifting...when the homicidal rage subsided I understood how it could be annoying at peak hours in a small echoey gym. Wanted to do 3-4 more sets though...

DB row - 

110x10,10,10,10,10

Pushup >> DB fly

BWx15,15 >> 20x20,20

Machine lateral - 

70x20,20,20

Reverse pec dec - 

70x15,15,15

EZ bar curl - 

50x25,25

One arm cable curl - 

30x15,15

This would be somewhere around the 10th time I've pulled 545. It's getting to be very un-intimidating and moving pretty fast. I'll probably triple it in the coming months.

[Alex M]

9/25/2013

Limited time and energy for training. The cybex preacher curl and tricep press machine are right next to each other, I just jumped back and forth between them for about 30 minutes. It was pretty fun.

9/26/2013

One leg ext. - 

35x12,12

Leg curl - 

70x12,12

90x12,12

Good girl - 

100x15,15,15

Bad girl - 

100x15,15,15

Squats - 

185x5,10,10,10

HS shoulder press - 

45x15,15,20

Pec Dec - 

90x15,15,15

Tricep press - 

70x20,20,20

DB curl - 

35xfailure,failure

I grabbed my hips this morning...jesus christ there's muscles there I've never felt before popping out all over the place. No wonder my squat feels so much better. Why can't my delts grow like that god dammit.

Speaking of delts, I'm attaching a hilarious picture of me that will hopefully serve as the before picture to my epic delt transformation that's about to happen. I'm not sure what I'm so worried about in this pic, but it must be pretty serious. Can't look at it without laughing lol.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

Did you do anything special for hips? I have to start doing something because I noticed my knees caving in at the bottom of the squat. But I am thinking of doing just the Bad girl and actually stretch my inner thighs instead of making them stronger, because I am so tight I can't do shit.

[Alex M]

9/28/13

Deadlift - 

545x3 - PR

600x0 - Someone super-glued it to the floor. Sincerely thought I had it in me after how 545 felt.

495x5

405x10,10 - touch n go

Tbar row - 

2platesx15,15,15

Cable curl - 

30x15,15,15

Abs - 

70x10,10,10 

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

I'll give it a shot, will probably start doing it once I transition back to low bar.

Have you pulled 600 yet? 545 to 600 was a ballsy jump, I don't even try to  hit big increments.

[Alex M]

I pulled 585 this summer, have not hit 600 yet. I don't really think too much about the weight I'm adding, I just went for it. Usually it works, lol, not this time.:(

[Bob Stevens]

Based on the 545 set I know you've got the ability to pull 600, but you need to peak for it a little better. I'm not going to say you make too big of jumps, cause I know good deadlifters tend to do that, but if you're shooting for a single, then you should try a progression more like this: 

warm ups

315x3

405x1,1

495x1,1

545x1

600x1

or do like 365x1, 455x1,1, 515x1, 565x1, 600x1

Also, I want to watch you pull again, something was off with your technique, but I'm not entirely certain what it was. you don't do the typical sumo bad form things, which is good, but I think we can tweak it a little to maximize potential. 

--

[Tiny]

Pulling 90%+ for a triple before going for a PR single is never a good idea. When I'm working up to a single, I start doing singles from 405 up and then go from there. No need to do more.

[Alex M]

Yeah If I had walked into the gym that day dead-set on hitting a single PR I wouldn't have pulled 545 for more than 1. The triple and the 600 attempt were spur of the moment.

My sumo form is always a little different every time I pull, which I know is bad I just can't keep a consistent feel. I feel much tighter and like my form is way better with my feet as wide as possible but I feel kind of off balance and a bit weaker. I bring them in to a more hybrid stance and I feel way more explosive, but I have injured myself several times like that. That's how I pulled 545x3 though, as well as 585. Conventional is hit or miss, but I have a strong feeling that once I'm able to bring my squat up and train it consistently that conventional pulling will be my strongest form. It's just a matter of weak hammies, once I get the bar off the ground in a conv stance, it's pretty much a guaranteed locked out.

I took vid of me a couple weeks ago when I was using a slightly wider stance. If you can see whatever looks a bit off from this vid I'd love to hear it. It's light weight and a bad angle though. Took it more to get a look at my shoulders honestly lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E17EHtspi2I&feature=youtu.be

[Dan]

I'm not a deadlift aficionado but those looked fairly decent, at least from that angle.

But Octo-plates? A gym with a monolift should have normal plates... lol

[Alex M]

It's a YMCA so I think most of the stuff is donated or bought cheaply from gyms that were closing or getting new equipment. There's a mix of brands of plates and dumbbells. I put normal plates on the inside and octo's on the outside because they're a little smaller and I can slide them on/off without lifting the bar.

[Alex M]

Dragging ass this week. A coworker spread her flu to me.

10/2/13

One leg curl -
45x8,8,8

Bad girl -
130x10,10

Good girl -
130x10,10

Bench press -
225x8,8,8,7

Deadlift -
465x 5 singles - all conv.
315x3,3,3 - for speed

Chins -
8,8,5

An hour of dicking around doing laterals and machine work that I wasn't counting.

Louie's lateral advice - focus on keeping pinkies higher than your thumbs - is spot on. I thought my shoulders were going to explode today, in a good way. I will try the heavy partials tonight.

Seeing delt improvements almost every day. I took a pic cuz I'm seeing more arm/shoulder separation than ever before, and what looks like the beginning of delt head separation. Gyno doesn't look too horrific here either, the skin around it has tightened considerably in the last few months. Probably a combo of the increased muscle mass and gh pulses.

[Tiny]

Alex, I had a chance to look at your deadlift videos. Overall, your form looks pretty good. I don't have much to say concerning your sumo, that's not bad. But for your conventional stance, I think you could get your hips down a little more and get your shoulders a little more behind the bar. If you can do this, you'll effectively be squatting the weight up. You should always be trying to break the bar off the ground with your legs, instead of just low back and hamstrings. I think if you can get more leg drive during the start of the pull, you'll be able to break the bar a lot easier.

I'd also like to weigh in on this weight gain business. Fran, what did you cut from to get to your current weight? And at what weight did you start at when you first started lifting? I don't have anything against the use of gear, but it is entirely possible to gain some solid mass naturally. I started lifting seriously back in 2005 during my senior year of high school. I weighed about 135 at 6' tall. I've been at my current weight of ~245 lb for about 3 years now. So it took roughly 6 years for me gain that much weight. I'm not ultra lean, but I still have visible abs and am as strong as I look.

[Nicholas Battista]

I agree. Honestly, at least when I was a part of the club, we promoted
the club as being drug free. I agree with Sereni and quite frankly if
you want to talk about gear (which is fine) don't do it under the
umbrella of the RIT Weightlifting club.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Sereni <glic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seconding Tim's motion. I started at a soft 170 and ended at a soft 230.
> And within that time I went from 170->200->180->220. I was never lean, but
> never super fat. I'm currently my leanest ever and I plan on slowly
> building back up. I don't have anything against gear, but I really don't
> feel we should be talking about it so much on here or singing its praises.
> The fact of the matter is, if you work for it you should be able to control
> your body weight however you want.

[Bob Stevens]

Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78MmSskpx1Y

To be fair Tim/Nick's, going from a skinny nothing to jacked, is a very different life than going from fat fuck to jacked. 

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shoot I didn't want to come off as condoning gear use on here. Of course you can gain plenty of muscle mass without it, I did it myself. That whole post was about how I gained mass and strength DRUG-FREE, and how it goes against the convention of slow bulking. Obviously the slow bulk works for a lot of people, like Tim, but this is an alternative that Fran could try if he doesn't like what the half pound per week type of bulk is bringing him. Again, the whole post is about what I did WITHOUT gear. I did huge dreamer bulks followed by hard fast cuts. That system is not for everyone.

No more mention of gear from me except in private.

[Nicholas Battista]

Sorry, Alex I didn't mean that directly at your post. I just was
talking in general. Btw, awesome work in the timeline! Pretty awesome
gains in strength.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Shoot I didn't want to come off as condoning gear use on here. Of course you
> can gain plenty of muscle mass without it, I did it myself. That whole post
> was about how I gained mass and strength DRUG-FREE, and how it goes against
> the convention of slow bulking. Obviously the slow bulk works for a lot of
> people, like Tim, but this is an alternative that Fran could try if he
> doesn't like what the half pound per week type of bulk is bringing him.
> Again, the whole post is about what I did WITHOUT gear. I did huge dreamer
> bulks followed by hard fast cuts. That system is not for everyone.
>
> No more mention of gear from me except in private.
>
>

[Alex Marchini]

So now this is all running through my head. I'm going to go back through this log and make edits/deletions when I get home from work. If you have a post in here that makes a reference I'd appreciate it if you would too.

The last thing I want to do is upset the older or founding members of the club, and I'm thinking if an RIT admin person came across this log the club could potentially be shut down. I would feel TREMENDOUSLY guilty if that happened. I don't want us to end up like the Rugby club :p

Also I will stay out of events that award trophies. I would feel guilty if I took something from someone who worked just as hard as me, but had a distinct disadvantage. The events aren't drug-tested but it's kind of implied. I would love to attend and help setup/scorekeeping though.

Sorry if I offended or upset anyone.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Alex M <a.mar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Nick.

You are right I got a little caught up and I'm talking a little to openly about it on this board. I want to be clear that I don't condone anyone's use and RIT weightlifting certainly does not condone the use of any drugs.

And yeah, Bob is very right. Fran started as a fat fuck too, so a path like mine may work for him.

[Alex M]

Fran - here's what I did in case you didn't see it before I gutted this log - 

Have not had surgery yet. Not even scheduled. Paperwork takes forever >.<.

I don't know exactly of course as I never tracked before, but here's a rundown of my training. I guess it's worked pretty well so it might be worth following a little.

May 2011 - Almost 300 lbs, about to turn 20, figured I should lose some weight. Started tracking calories and learning nutrition. Some curls, presses and lunges with my 20, 25, and 40 lb dumbbells at home followed by a 20 min jog on the canal every day.

Feb 2012 - Down to 185 lbs. Started going to the actual gym. I was still eating like nothing, I think it was 1400 calories, and I was running Max OT for my training.

March 2012 - still about 185 lbs. Learned about powerlifting, decided to give the lifts a shot. Hit 225x3 on my first deadlifts. This is when I decided to bulk for the first time. Ate probably 6000 calories/day on average. Training was every day that I could, usually 5-6 days a week, sometimes twice a day. General outline was - 

Occasional squats - I hated them then too.

Deadlift - max out almost every day, and lots of 5x5s

Bench press - Mostly sets of 5, attempting 5x5s. If I failed the 5x5 I just used the same weight every day until I hit it.

Rows - way way way too heavy. I was ripping callouses doing rows. Zero fucks given about form, I'd load 5 plates on the tbar and just pull the damn thing as hard as I could.

Leg press - Many sets of 8

Then whatever other bullshit I felt like that day.

^This was great, I gained a lot of mass, but it was not pleasant. This is what I mean when I talk about people not training hard enough. Fuck your sore lower back, deadlift anyway. I could hardly walk some days, was hunched over because of lower back pain, still went and did deadlifts. This payed off big time as my lower back is freaking indestructible. I can't even remember the last time it was sore.

April 2012 - By the end of the month I was 210 lbs. I had managed to get my deadlift to 365x1. I started cutting but kept the same training. Sometime in May I was 190 lbs and pulled 380x1, my first 2x bodyweight deadlift.

June 2012 - 185 lbs again. Way bigger and stronger than before. Began another bulk, same training.

July 2012 - 210 lbs again. I had a fairly bad incident while squatting that put me in a lot of pain. I started cutting again, but my training was limited. Still 5-6 days a week, sometimes 2-a-days, but it was this every time - 

Romanian deadlift - way way way too heavy 5x5s. Pretty much maxing my deadlift then doing RDLS with it.

Incline press - couldn't get tight enough for flat bench with my injury.

Rows - Still way too heavy.

Chin ups

Walking on the treadmill

August 2012 - 185 lbs once again, the leanest I've ever been. Full definition of my upper 4 abs, Lower covered my loose skin. It was way worse back then. My training became less structured after this. 

November 2012 - 210 lbs. Bulked slower this time.

January 2013 - 190 lbs

May 2013 - 230 lbs. Mostly trying to get stronger for the strongman. Stupid wrist fucked that up.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

That's what I wondered. We started at pretty much same time, but you surely passed my gains. I was considering doing dirty bulk but ended up not doing it. I think the slow and controlled would get me better results. I see it this way: in one year I can clean bulk 9 months and cut for 3. Or I can dirty bulk for 6 and cut for 6.  First option would get me less gains, but also less losses during and after I cut, since cutting isn't so long and severe.  Bottom line, I would probably end up with same strength/mass, just that clean bulk would be mentally easier.

I gained most of muscle when I started Legs, push, pull, off. I am big fan of high frequency training, too many people miss a lot of gains by doing their "one body part a week" splits. I'm pretty sure that's what played a key role in your mass gain. I consider  legs, push, pull to be on the medium side of frequency, ideally I would do 3 times a week per body part, but I would go nuts if I spent that much time at the gym.

Tiny, I started out at 195. I did all the stupid cardio things, and then started competing for RIT's Crew team, which made me drop to 155. This was first time in my life I actually didn't look like a fatass. Since lifting was mandatory for rowers, I had to do it, and thats pretty much what got me into this. I couldn't starve myself anymore, so I went all out to 180 two  summers ago. After that, my last year of training was spent hopelessly dieting down with its ups and downs. I ended up doing Strongman at 162. Again, couldn't keep up with it so I said to hell with it, now I am at 185.

My biggest problem was that I actually never developed my metabolism , it was always on starvation mode, and I had constant fear of getting too fat. This time I'm doing 8 months training and bulking, will cut and clean up sometime in Spring.

[Alex M]

Whats your diet like when you're cutting? Do you feel you lost a lot of muscle mass? Perhaps that could be your problem.

I never felt I lost any lean mass during my cuts. If anything I felt I gained some muscle during.. They were fast and hard but I never AVERAGED super low calories. My diet for cutting was -

Protein shake upon waking

2 Chicken breast and a couple pounds of various veggies around 2pm

Protein shake before bed

That was 5 days a week, the other 2 were 5000 calorie days, whatever I wanted but at least minimum protein and a ton of fat. So my average daily intake was in the low 2000s. I feel this is better for retaining muscle mass and strength than a constant deficit. You can pretty much ride your big calorie days for 2 days afterwards and have the energy to train hard enough to keep your gains, but overall maintain a caloric deficit. Plus you have lots of room to fit in your cravings on those 2 days. To me it's almost a way to cheat discipline a little bit because you only really need to be disciplined 5 days per week instead of all 7. Again this is just what I did. I bet a lot of people would say not to do this, but it worked for me.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

2000 calories/day, 1 gr protein, 0.3 - 0.5 gr fat.

I think I need to build solid foundation first and then worry about cutting.

[Tiny]

I still don't understand this cutting and bulking business. Just keep it simple. Eat lots of clean food (seriously, only recently have I started eating ice cream regularly), have a cheat meal once in a while, lift heavy shit, do a little cardio, and that's it. If you notice yourself getting "fluffy", just drop the calories a bit (to maintenance) and stay at your current weight for a while and continue with your lifting, but don't "cut". I don't think it's all that difficult. 

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

My strength drops like nothing if I don't eat enough two days in a row. I need to be in a slight caloric surplus to keep progressing. That means that after some period of time, I will have some extra weight that needs to be lost, and since my strength will go down immediately, I want this to be scheduled. Interrupting my progress just to lose some weight every couple of months wouldn't get me far.

It would also give me a lot of space to screw up and get fat without gaining much muscle.

[Tiny]

I think a lot of you guys need to be a lot less scared of gaining fat if your goal is athletic performance. Always trying to maintain your six pack while trying to increase strength and size will just hinder your progress. Of course, this does not apply if you're a competitive body builder. And I'm not saying you should be a fat fuck either. But if your abs start to get a little fuzzy, who cares. Look at any top athlete in the strength world. Most are not ultra lean. Dan Green and Stan Efferding don't count.

[Sereni]

I also have a hard time believing that your strength drops after two days of not eating a surplus, I'm not sure if you were exaggerating but that seems unreasonable.  You should be able to go a few weeks before noticing anything.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

Not exactly two days, but it happens after two to three weeks, and my performance begins to be inconsistent.

Important thing to note is that my goal is not to be strongest ever, I never liked putting all my eggs in one basket and excelling in only one thing. I want to be strong and look like I was strong (to a layman, meaning 10-12% bf). I would be happiest if I wanted to just pursue strength and balloon up to  250lbs.
 I'm not afraid to get fat because of my sixpack (if I had one), but because of the diminishing returns. As I explained before, I (and probably most of other people) am better off gaining 2lbs per month and then slowly cut back for only 3 months.

Surplus of 500cal per day gets you 25lbs of fat during 6 months, it is simple math. Another six months and that is 50. At some point you will have to lose that, and instead of getting stronger, you will spend another 6 months getting weaker (unless of course you just want to be as heavy as possible).

Also please note that there are a lot of people boasting with their dreamers bulk, but what they do instead is gain 20 pounds in short period of time, get fat and stay fat, but their gaining stabilizes to few pounds a month. They end up doing slow and controlled bulk without even knowing it, which puts them in the same position like me (except I don't have to lose those initial 20 pounds).

Long story short, I believe not getting fat quickly would get me same results as dirty bulking, I just wouldn't have to go through prolonged cut.

[Tiny]

"Surplus of 500cal per day gets you 25lbs of fat during 6 months, it is simple math. Another six months and that is 50."

I can't believe I just read this. Some of the posts you've made have been half-way intelligent, but I don't think I take anything you post seriously anymore. We are trying to give you some advice and help you out, but it's up to you whether or not you want to take/believe it.

[Alex M]

On Monday, October 7, 2013 11:23:33 PM UTC-4, Tiny wrote:

"Surplus of 500cal per day gets you 25lbs of fat during 6 months, it is simple math. Another six months and that is 50."

This scientific stuff is great to follow when you first start lifting, while you figure out some more basic things like training and form and stuff. You are at a level now where you need to STOP listening to the Ian McCarthy types and start listening to the Paul Carter types. This 'science' just goes right out the fucking window when you start to figure out your own body, but your never going to figure it out if you just blindly follow 3500 cal surplus = exactly 1lb or whatever. If you've tried the dirty bulk before and didn't like it, and you don't like how your progress is now, Tiny's dieting advice is what you should try next. It doesn't matter what some small, weak prick on youtube/facebook thinks about it. Seriously, I used to like Ian and watch all his videos. Now I want smash my head against the wall every time I hear is fucking pompous ass toned voice as he creates more mediocre-at-best bodybuilders.

On another note, I haven't posted my training in a bit because it's been poopoo. I've decided to stop doing low bar squats until I can actually do them semi-properly. I squatted 380 on Saturday and afterwards it felt like all the tendons in my arm were going to rip/explode. It still feels this way, hence my last couple training sessions being crap. I'll stick to high bar and front squats for a while. 

Hit 2 PRs on Saturday:

Conv. deadlift - 

545x1 - pretty damn easy, could have doubled it I think. Also, a P90x'er tried to correct my form immediately after he saw me do this. I saw him doing some sweet reps with 225 later so I should probably listen. -.- Now I'm getting pissed off just thinking about this guy.

Bench Press - 

225x12

 

[Sereni]

"You are at a level now where you need to STOP listening to the Ian McCarthy types and start listening to the Paul Carter types."

-Marry me?

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

500*30*6=90,000
90000/3500=~25

Either that, or you are not in 500 cal surplus. I don't see if I can break it down to be any simpler, maybe I'm not intelligent enough.

Alex, I'll disagree with you on "listening to your body". True, we all should do that, but it accounts in a smaller percentage of entire training philosophy than everybody thinks. Seems like these days everybody wants to be special and have a unique training. They just appear to be too good for rules that are for everybody.

Bottom line, effective training does not mean optimal training. Science is devoted to finding truth, aka things that work.

On Monday, October 7, 2013 11:23:33 PM UTC-4, Tiny wrote:

[Bob Stevens]

Guys, start a new thread for this discussion so it doesn't clutter Alex's training thread. It's all valid and useful, so please continue on, but not here. 

Alex, you finally ready to put together a real training template of sorts? 

--

[Bob Stevens]

Oh and your new friend was watching his friend round back deadlift 400-something last night, without much criticism. 

[Alex M]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 11:54:43 AM UTC-4, FRAN PERKOVIC wrote:

Alex, I'll disagree with you on "listening to your body". True, we all should do that, but it accounts in a smaller percentage of entire training philosophy than everybody thinks. Seems like these days everybody wants to be special and have a unique training. They just appear to be too good for rules that are for everybody.

No it's the complete opposite. That 3500 number is such a huge generalization. There's a billion genetic factors that will determine what that number is for you. The amount of muscle that you will grow from those surplus calories depends on way to many things for anyone to rationalize. This science is hardly understood. There are no rules for everybody. Same goes for training. Why can I deadlift every damn day and not hurt myself, and other people can squat everyday just fine, but if I do that I can barely walk after day 2? There is an INCREDIBLE amount of variation. These rules are just a jumping off point. If this shit was as easy as following a couple simple rules and numbers then every other person walking into the gym would look sweet and be strong as fuck, but they aren't. They are average, mediocre. The only way to push past the mediocrity is to put in the time and effort of figuring out what truly optimizes your results.

I mean, if you're fine with an 1100 total or 175 lbs 12% bodyfat to be the height of your lifetime training career then this is fine.

[Alex M]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:20:55 PM UTC-4, Bob wrote

Alex, you finally ready to put together a real training template of sorts? 

Hell no. I like my system of chaos, PRs and injuries. lol

That guy was giving me shit about jerking the bar before I started the pull. Said it was terrible for my back. Ok Ill just timidly lift it like a 12 year old girl would. Why the fuck would anyone want to be explosive when they deadlift right? He bothered me again when I was back at the gym that night about wearing my cargo shorts, which I had on because I sweat through my other shorts earlier. I made him let me wear them as long as I stayed off benches and stuff. He left like 5 minutes later and I was all over that shit, other desk guy didn't care. You might see me on the news for murdering this guy some time. Big ass smile on my mug shot.

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

I don't think we have a same definition of a surplus. Surplus is exactly what it is- an excessive energy in the body. If it is used in muscle protein synthesis, it is not excess.

The reason you can deadlift so often is becaused you started deadlifting so often. Your body will adapt, either that or overtrain. And by overtraining I don't mean being sore, I mean being sick and feeling like crap as if somebody beaten the hell out of you. If you were to increase the frequency of your squats, you would probably feel like shit first 2 weeks, or month or whatever, but would eventually adapt. Just like it sucked for me when I switched from once a week to twice a week.

Lastly, I don't think 1100 will be my peak total. There is a reason why weightlifting is sport with weight classes. If looking lean would cost me 100 pounds on my total, I would trade it any day. It is my preference, just like most powerlifters decide to be fat and unable to run 100 yards without dying.

Speaking of Paul Carter, I think his last post can benefit all of us.

"Here is what I have gathered from trying to have intelligent discussion.

People don't want to have their beliefs challenged. Someone would rather call you a misogynist or racist or bigot or any other negatively applied label than to examine what it is they hold dear from an ideological perspective.

You can put facts or studies or any multitude of fact laden works, and it will be dismissed in the blink of an eye by people who hold firmly onto the belief that THEY. ARE. RIGHT.

The things I held dear to me, and that were at the forefront of my thinking five years ago are not the same now as then. The only reason that paradigm shift happened is because I became open minded enough to NOT see every challenge as a bad thing. To try and view things through different eyes....i.e. through the ones of people who had lived different experiences and had different shaped views than I do, and understand why they believed that way.

This does not mean I no longer have hard and fast rules that I adhere to that make up what I believe to be fundamental rights and wrongs. It just means I'm open now to be challenged in those things, and if they can't pass that litmus test then another paradigm shift need be made.

The majority of people do not want their foundations shaken. Because a weakness in it means they have held on to something that at their core, may be unsound or fallible. And who wants to admit they bought into a leaky foundation system and stayed trued to it all this time?

This is really something to be thankful for, rather than irrational or angry about. If a basement company came to you and told you that they could make the foundation of your home stronger, would you get angry or appreciate the offer and the work they could provide? I hope it would be the latter. "

[Sereni]

You can't make this shit up.

[Alex M]

Dude Paul's post is like, exactly what I'm telling you to do lol. Try something other than that precious science, put everyone's advice through your litmus test. Maybe you'll like what you find. I do it all the time. I do a lot of stupid shit in my training, I know that, because I just want to try it and see what happens. Sometimes it works out. I'm really still a novice. I don't know what in the fuck I'm doing, I just train. I'm slowly starting to figure a few things out through all my trial and error. I'm just trying to encourage you to loosen up on the science and the anti-bro attitude and do the same.

And what are you saying about a surplus? Would your body use that amount of energy for muscle protein synthesis if you didn't have the extra calories? No, those are excess calories, and your body is only using them for muscle protein synthesis because well, it can, because they are excess, and you've given your body incentive to grow the tissue that has been put under stress from training. Why would you even need a surplus then if the calories used in muscle aren't surplus??? You just want extra fat? lol

[FRAN PERKOVIC]

Yea, I hear what you're saying. But the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people just seem to accept advice without any critical and analytical thinking. That's why you have guys eating 6 meals a day, training each muscle once a week, doing fasted cardio, etc... It all works, but it is far from optimal.  If everybody was to put the advices to a litmus test as you said, we would soon realize there is not much new to invent when it comes to training, and window for variations is way smaller. Take any Crossfiter and get him a good strength and conditioning coach, and see how much they get better compared to their usual "lets do this till we puke" process. But nearly all of them just accept the dogma and roll with it.
That is the argument against the idea of bulking for 6 months and cutting for 6 months after that. It just seems illogical for me to keep all my strength gains during such a long deficit.

About calories, I am talking about excess which is left over after deducting TDEE, after muscle protein synthesis, after refilling glycogen stores, after your body has done everything it needs. If there is 500 cals left (meaning, they are excess calories), they will go to fat. If anyone has any evidence to disprove this, I'd really like to listen to it.

[Sereni]

Love it

[Alex M]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree about the amount of variation there is. You can look at all the strongest guys through history and they all trained differently. There is no one best way. I reckon some crossfitters(real ones, not fail compilation ones) get the most benefit out of that type of training. Chad, in this group, seems to be getting some great gains from it. Some bodybuilders use that 'do it till you puke' mentality as well.

Also you won't really lose a ton of strength being in that deficit. You will lose it temporarily as your body slows down ATP production and you generally have less energy, but it will come back fast when you start eating again. Watch what happens with Nick, his strength will come back fast.

So by your logic, what is that point of those 500 extra calories??? Why would anyone eat a surplus if 100% of it went into fat storage?

[Bob Stevens]

Surplus calories are the most delicious calories. 

--

[Alex M]

10/9/2013

Deadlift - 

Up to 495x1 conventional

Smith machine shrugs - 

6 pps x5, 5

DB laterals - 

50x8, 8

15x 20, 20

Pull-ups between sets, sets of 5-8. Did 60-70 total.

Lots of upper body machine work.

I took yesterday completely off. First time I've done that in a long time, been about 4 weeks I think. Arms still feel a little bad. If they don't recover soon I might need to consider a few whole days off.

[Bob Stevens]

What's wrong with your arms? 

I saw you doing side laterals the other day with the 50s. IMO, that's too heavy. 300lb pro bodybuilders barely use that much weight. Humor me and do a set with 50s, then do a set with 15-20's with your arms totally straight, and don't let the weight settle, keep tension the entire time. Then tell me which hit the muscle harder. 

--