Shutting down Ripplepay

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Ryan Fugger

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Mar 22, 2018, 12:51:30 AM3/22/18
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Hi.  I'm considering shutting down https://classic.ripplepay.com/.  I can't detect a lot of people using it anymore -- just a lot of hacking attempts, not that there's anything interesting on the server.  Does anyone have any thoughts?  Thanks.

David Watson

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Mar 22, 2018, 1:13:57 AM3/22/18
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Hey Ryan,

Weird that you posted today.  Today I incorporated the company I plan to make a push for my "metric reserve" banking thing I coded a year ago.  It's more than that though, as I'm trying to market it while I also implement Catherine Austin Fitts' "Solari" model.  I had plans for many years on how I eventually wanted to market and attempt to implement a lot of these ideas I've had into a focused business plan, but after coding it last year and kind of "finishing my research" basically decided to take a year away from it and see if I really wanted to do it.  

So it's a year later and I really want to do it I guess.  Probably another couple months before I'm really up and running with marketing and communication.

My thoughts about Ripplepay?  Gosh, man, the ripplepay model I spent a lot of time running over in my head.  I truly believe what little innovation I put into metric really evolved from in depth thinking about ways to make RipplePay work.

Might say more later.  Off to bed, but saw your post and felt like answering first.

David

Giovanni P

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Mar 22, 2018, 8:44:41 AM3/22/18
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I got a little sentimental (despite never having used Ripplepay), but I understand it may be time to close the site.
Thank you, Ryan.

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Moe Adham

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Mar 23, 2018, 1:38:28 PM3/23/18
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I dont mind taking over & running the server if you are going to shut it down Ryan.

Miles Thompson

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Mar 25, 2018, 4:59:51 PM3/25/18
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Yes feeling very sentimental about ripplepay.. you were so far ahead of things Ryan!!

If someone is willing to keep a server going that sounds good to me. That said if a thing isn't being used maybe it's time to let it go? Or perhaps an online museum is along the lines of what people want to do here ? Id support that. Financially (a little) even.

David it sounds interesting. I would be keen to hear how you intend to implement the Solari model on (classic) ripple? I worked a bit with Catherine a million years ago and think her work is great.

Miles

On Sat, 24 Mar 2018, 6:38 AM Moe Adham, <moea...@gmail.com> wrote:
I dont mind taking over & running  the server if you are going to shut it down Ryan.

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David Watson

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Mar 25, 2018, 5:22:53 PM3/25/18
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Miles,

Solari model is the main push for what I'm rolling out.  Metric Reserve, which is similar in certain aspects to the ideas behind classic ripple, is something I believe could come in behind a legitimate implementation of the local solari model.  So they are separate but related initiatives.  As many of you I'm sure are aware, a lot of red tape to legimitize a payment system WRT regulations/FINCEN/licensing etc.

So the Metric/payment system is backburner/marketing initiative and only presented as prototype.  The gimmick I would like to use initially promote it is by approaching pawn shops.  I have studied Kansas statutes for pawn shops and what they essentially are is rigidly defined banks.  Loan terms and limits are defined in law and there's little wiggle room for how a pawn shop can operate.

Metric Reserve is basically a rudimentary 100% reserve banking system that is currency agnostic.  Pawn shops provide a convenient mechanism for turning any item into a currency (bullion, gold, vehicles, jewelry, perhaps even bitcoin) as they give you a standard pawn ticket and that pawn ticket can serve as the uniquely identified reserve asset in the metric reserve system (with minor tweaking).  Deals can be negotiated to get the pawn shops "monthly loan fee" (which many people simply renew every month) to a very low amount, to where, in essence, the depositor is paying a maintenance fee to hold your currency.  For instance, the pawn shop may agree to hold onto silver bullion at 90% value for a fraction of a percent per month fee.  

So Metric Reserve could be used then to base it's "reserves" on the pawn tickets themselves, which not only establish KYC "know your customer" identity, but this gimmick innately creates a multi-currency situation, and is an existing business model that has (I would say) more stringent rules for transparency, and typically more security than your average bank due to weapons often being sold.  

Anyway, this is a completely separate initiative which is simply related to solari initiative, and as I said, it wouldn't be "going live" out of the gate, but rather implemented to the point of testing it and going as far as possible for marketing purposes before real attempts to go live.  If the community gets behind the solari concept, then perhaps it could turn into a viable testing ground for Metric.  Even without Metric, getting the solari model working would be a success in and of itself.  

Metric Reserve is a legitimate alternative to banking/payment system, so going live out of the box is simply asking for trouble, and to do legitimately even for legal tender (much less other currencies/assets) requires significant capital and thousands in application/license and monthly fees.

David


Miles


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Dan Miller

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Mar 25, 2018, 11:32:37 PM3/25/18
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I think users/supporters might be willing to fund a bitcoin address to
help defray server operating costs to keep ripplepay going a little
longer. I'm very nostalgic about it too. I no longer use it, there is
very much the network effect involved.

Ryan Fugger

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Mar 28, 2018, 3:06:50 PM3/28/18
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Thanks for your replies.  It's nice to see who is still reading this list :)

I can keep Ripplepay operating for now.  It's not a matter of expenses, but rather a minor security worry on the server.  Also people keep signing up and then asking how they get their XRP :)

It would be a real pain for someone else to set it up on their server due to using legacy libraries, etc., and my server has a bunch of other sites on it, so unfortunately I can't allow anyone else access.  Thanks for offering to help though.

David, Metric Reserve sounds cool.  Please let me/us know when it's live.

Jeffrey Cliff

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Nov 13, 2019, 3:48:54 AM11/13/19
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i'll second that, except i still do use it (very occasionally)

Ryan Fugger

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Aug 27, 2020, 2:12:35 AM8/27/20
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As a followup to this old thread, Ripple Inc. has asked if I'd be willing to change the name of Ripplepay to avoid any possible confusion as they continue growing their new version of Ripple.  I guess it doesn't look good when banks search them up and find my old site :)  So I've changed the name to Rumplepay.  I hope that feels familiar enough, and also communicates the benign neglect that the site has seen since, oh, about 2008...


(Old ripplepay.com links should redirect.)

Cheers!

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Melvin Carvalho

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Aug 27, 2020, 3:14:54 AM8/27/20
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On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 08:12, Ryan Fugger <a...@ryanfugger.com> wrote:
As a followup to this old thread, Ripple Inc. has asked if I'd be willing to change the name of Ripplepay to avoid any possible confusion as they continue growing their new version of Ripple.  I guess it doesn't look good when banks search them up and find my old site :)  So I've changed the name to Rumplepay.  I hope that feels familiar enough, and also communicates the benign neglect that the site has seen since, oh, about 2008...


(Old ripplepay.com links should redirect.)

But wasnt ripplepay first?
 

Cheers!

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 12:48 AM Jeffrey Cliff <jeffre...@gmail.com> wrote:
i'll second that, except i still do use it (very occasionally)

On Sunday, 25 March 2018 23:32:37 UTC-4, Dan wrote:
I think users/supporters might be willing to fund a bitcoin address to
help defray server operating costs to keep ripplepay going a little
longer. I'm very nostalgic about it too. I no longer use it, there is
very much the network effect involved.

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Ryan Fugger

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Aug 27, 2020, 3:46:11 AM8/27/20
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:14 AM Melvin Carvalho <melvinc...@gmail.com> wrote:


But wasnt ripplepay first?


Yes, but Ripple Inc. (then OpenCoin) took over the project in 2012 with my blessing.  Ripple was very stagnant at that point due to my ill health and the fact that no one else had stepped up to do anything with it.  I'm pretty impressed what they've done, especially in terms of open decentralized protocol development, very much in line with what I had originally envisioned.  Actually, probably way better:


It's totally possible to run a decentralized Ripplepay (sorry, *Rumplepay*) type system on this protocol, and one day if I ever get healthy I'd love to work on that.  I'm happy to help anyone who wants to work on it now.  As always, it's less of a technical challenge and more a question of how to get enough people using it for it to be useful...

Johan Nygren

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Aug 27, 2020, 10:03:38 AM8/27/20
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I think your invention Ripple is one the of the most groundbreaking inventions of this century. I think your priorities to first prove the concept by focusing on proving (and popularizing) decentralization of credit (ripplepay a central ledger on one server, ripple.com a central ledger on many servers, trustlines.network a central ledger on many servers) first, and then proving decentralization of transaction processing, seems like the ideal approach at the time.

To me, decentralization of credit is primary; decentralization of transaction processing is secondary (albeit important). twitter.com/rfugger/status/609922839454466050

Decentralization of transaction processing seems like it makes Ripple much easier to implement. Each person can keep their own ledger, no need for it to be public, no need for public proof (therefore no need for asymmetric digital signatures or hash linking proofs. ) The signature just has to be a MAC (message authentication code), so, relying on a hash function but no public evidence in any way. Bidirectional query flooding seems like it would scale, since nodes queried is sqrt(unidirectionalQueryFlooding). In the human body, the immune system has 10^18 antibodies per milliliter of blood, mediating connections between antigen and lymphocytes. It scales. Using network addressing that somehow "knows" how to do greedy routing might be better (I made a post about that on this forum a year ago) but for a first generation bidirectional query flooding seems like it would work.

To prevent spam, I think paying for payment queries seems like it would work.

Establishing peer-to-peer data transmission connections is the part I'm worst at. The internet solved that in the 1960s? I'm not very good at that part so it is what I have to learn to build a person-to-person Ripple.

Melvin Carvalho

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Aug 27, 2020, 10:13:00 AM8/27/20
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On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 16:03, Johan Nygren <joha...@gmail.com> wrote:
I think your invention Ripple is one the of the most groundbreaking inventions of this century. I think your priorities to first prove the concept by focusing on proving (and popularizing) decentralization of credit (ripplepay a central ledger on one server, ripple.com a central ledger on many servers, trustlines.network a central ledger on many servers) first, and then proving decentralization of transaction processing, seems like the ideal approach at the time.

To me, decentralization of credit is primary; decentralization of transaction processing is secondary (albeit important). twitter.com/rfugger/status/609922839454466050

Decentralization of transaction processing seems like it makes Ripple much easier to implement. Each person can keep their own ledger, no need for it to be public, no need for public proof (therefore no need for asymmetric digital signatures or hash linking proofs. ) The signature just has to be a MAC (message authentication code), so, relying on a hash function but no public evidence in any way. Bidirectional query flooding seems like it would scale, since nodes queried is sqrt(unidirectionalQueryFlooding). In the human body, the immune system has 10^18 antibodies per milliliter of blood, mediating connections between antigen and lymphocytes. It scales. Using network addressing that somehow "knows" how to do greedy routing might be better (I made a post about that on this forum a year ago) but for a first generation bidirectional query flooding seems like it would work.

To prevent spam, I think paying for payment queries seems like it would work.

Establishing peer-to-peer data transmission connections is the part I'm worst at. The internet solved that in the 1960s? I'm not very good at that part so it is what I have to learn to build a person-to-person Ripple.

You had me at: "each person must keep his own ledger".  This is the golden insight

And by implication those ledgers must be highly interoperable in a decentralized and scalable way

The natural tendency to solve this problem would be to write a spec (something like interledger) and say "if only everyone used this spec, we can scale".  But that hasnt worked, and it will never work.

What is actually needed is a mechanism by which everyone can have their own ledger and to drill down what a ledger is to its very basics, ie a mapping of an entity to a balance

Then you need a scalable interoperable way to uniquely address the entities in that ledger (best way here is with a URI), and then pull in entries or a whole ledger.  You also need a merge or join technology which will mash up ledgers in a systematic, repeatable and scalable way -- for this you can take the principles of linked data which is good at joining data and merging

On that core you build new solutions.  eg a patch to a ledger is a transaction or payment.  A chain of tx is a block chain.  You can have transitive balances between ledgers like ripple and trustdavis.

Then integration with many other layers, whether it be bitcoin, lightning network, your own issued credits, or legacy fiat

Specs are a form of centralization.  A decentralized system allows everyone to have their own ledger, and work with each other, but not be bound to a spec.  Difficult balance!
 

torsdag 27 augusti 2020 kl. 09:46:11 UTC+2 skrev Ryan Fugger:
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:14 AM Melvin Carvalho <melvinc...@gmail.com> wrote:


But wasnt ripplepay first?


Yes, but Ripple Inc. (then OpenCoin) took over the project in 2012 with my blessing.  Ripple was very stagnant at that point due to my ill health and the fact that no one else had stepped up to do anything with it.  I'm pretty impressed what they've done, especially in terms of open decentralized protocol development, very much in line with what I had originally envisioned.  Actually, probably way better:


It's totally possible to run a decentralized Ripplepay (sorry, *Rumplepay*) type system on this protocol, and one day if I ever get healthy I'd love to work on that.  I'm happy to help anyone who wants to work on it now.  As always, it's less of a technical challenge and more a question of how to get enough people using it for it to be useful...

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Johan Nygren

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Aug 27, 2020, 10:34:39 AM8/27/20
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@melvin "ledger" is an overkill word. people just have to remember balances and pass on routing requests.

Johan Nygren

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Aug 27, 2020, 11:00:41 AM8/27/20
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@melvin Ripple is the ideal system cryptographically since it is completely private ("crypto", hidden). What is called "crypto tech" is actually about the opposite, public proof. I prefer the word "phanerography" for that field of mathematics, it is not about hiding information but about making it public. Both approaches to scaling trust will likely co-exist.

Adam Wascholl

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Aug 30, 2020, 4:02:01 PM8/30/20
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Hello, everyone.

I've been in this group for about 10 years now.  I don't understand much of the development/technology side of things, but I'm an accountant who would like to see systems like this thrive and someday be a viable option to help people out.

I'm now starting to help intentional communities and eco villages establish structure & processes, and having some sort of internal currency is one of the major components of that.  For groups of 500 or less, do you think Ripple is the way to go?  I know there are other systems like CES that seemed to work when I was last looking into them years ago.  What else has popped up since then that shows promise?

I'd love to hear some thoughts from a standpoint of ease-of-access and practicality. 



Ryan Fugger

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Aug 30, 2020, 4:08:47 PM8/30/20
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On Sun., Aug. 30, 2020, 1:02 p.m. Adam Wascholl, <adam.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been in this group for about 10 years now.  I don't understand much of the development/technology side of things, but I'm an accountant who would like to see systems like this thrive and someday be a viable option to help people out.

I'm now starting to help intentional communities and eco villages establish structure & processes, and having some sort of internal currency is one of the major components of that.  For groups of 500 or less, do you think Ripple is the way to go?  I know there are other systems like CES that seemed to work when I was last looking into them years ago.  What else has popped up since then that shows promise?

I'd love to hear some thoughts from a standpoint of ease-of-access and practicality. 

You may want to check out https://villages.io/.

Adam Wascholl

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Aug 31, 2020, 1:48:26 PM8/31/20
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Here's a great site to start you off:  https://www.ic.org/



On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:44 AM fiatjaf <fia...@alhur.es> wrote:
Where can I learn more about international ecovillage communities?


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