Ripple style projects using Cyclos 4?

[Simon Thorpe]

Hi,

I'm new here, despite having spent several years now working on reforming the economy in my spare time - in particular via my blog "Simon Thorpe's Ideas on the Economy" which has reached an embarrasingly large 800 pages!

I've played around with a range of IOU related ideas that are pretty close to Ryan Fugger's original Ripple proposals, and indeed even got as far as implementing a basic system (called Owe'm) using Cyclos 4, back in 2014. See for example "EUREKA - How to create unlimited amounts of "Money" without banks. The Owe'm system" where I basically realized what Ryan realized ten years ealier. And "Owem is now online" - although I've since abandonned the owem.net site.

Of course, Owem didn't go anywhere - because there was no community!
 
There were a couple of features needed for IOU processing that were not available in Cyclos 4, including the ability to cancel out IOUs between parties - something that is standard in RipplePay

• A sends an IOU for €50 to B
• B sends an IOU for €30 to A
• A now owes B €20

Together with some developers at Ubiquat in Barcelona, I'm currently working on adding such features (and some other tricks) to a Cyclos 4 based system.

But before going much further, I thought I should check with the people on the Ripple Community to get the answer to a few basic questions.

1. Has anyone else  used Cyclos 4 (or 3) to implement a pure IOU system?
   
2. If they haven't, is there some reason to not do such a thing?
   

The fact is that Cyclos 4 seems to have a lot of the features that would be needed to produce a large-scale system.  Yes, I really that Cyclos 4 actually costs money for large scale systems, but I would personally be happy to cover those costs if it meant that we could get a system going that could really help people create their own credit systems.

[Ryan Fugger]

Hi Simon. It's cool that you're working on this. I don't know of anyone specifically working with Cyclos in this area, but I don't see any reason not to do it other than the hassle of fighting against software not quite meant for that purpose... There is https://villages.cc which is being developed now by Daniel Levy, but that's custom software. Definitely the problem is finding people who will use it. Feel free to bounce ideas around on this list or to my email directly.

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[Jorge Timón]

Also, remember that unlike cyclos 3, cyclos 4 is not free software.

On 1 Sep 2017 9:03 pm, "Ryan Fugger" <a...@ryanfugger.com> wrote:

Hi Simon. It's cool that you're working on this. I don't know of anyone specifically working with Cyclos in this area, but I don't see any reason not to do it other than the hassle of fighting against software not quite meant for that purpose... There is https://villages.cc which is being developed now by Daniel Levy, but that's custom software. Definitely the problem is finding people who will use it. Feel free to bounce ideas around on this list or to my email directly.

On Aug 24, 2017 11:28 AM, "Simon Thorpe" <simon.jonathan.thorpe@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm new here, despite having spent several years now working on reforming the economy in my spare time - in particular via my blog "Simon Thorpe's Ideas on the Economy" which has reached an embarrasingly large 800 pages!

I've played around with a range of IOU related ideas that are pretty close to Ryan Fugger's original Ripple proposals, and indeed even got as far as implementing a basic system (called Owe'm) using Cyclos 4, back in 2014. See for example "EUREKA - How to create unlimited amounts of "Money" without banks. The Owe'm system" where I basically realized what Ryan realized ten years ealier. And "Owem is now online" - although I've since abandonned the owem.net site.

Of course, Owem didn't go anywhere - because there was no community!
 
There were a couple of features needed for IOU processing that were not available in Cyclos 4, including the ability to cancel out IOUs between parties - something that is standard in RipplePay

• A sends an IOU for €50 to B
• B sends an IOU for €30 to A
• A now owes B €20

Together with some developers at Ubiquat in Barcelona, I'm currently working on adding such features (and some other tricks) to a Cyclos 4 based system.

But before going much further, I thought I should check with the people on the Ripple Community to get the answer to a few basic questions.

1. Has anyone else  used Cyclos 4 (or 3) to implement a pure IOU system?
   
2. If they haven't, is there some reason to not do such a thing?
   

The fact is that Cyclos 4 seems to have a lot of the features that would be needed to produce a large-scale system.  Yes, I really that Cyclos 4 actually costs money for large scale systems, but I would personally be happy to cover those costs if it meant that we could get a system going that could really help people create their own credit systems.

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[James Edwards]

hello Simon,

I was looking at the possibility of creating a hybrid payments system, incorporating elements of both Ryan's original Ripple proposal and the modern Ripple system and integrating and integrating it with Cyclos 4 marketplace. I am not a software developer and have yet been able to recruit a developer to help me though I am trying to persuade a software engineer friend to commit to the project. 

How did you get on with cancelling out IOUs between people? This is one of the features I was hoping to incorporate into the payments system I was hoping to develop. 

[Daniel]

Hi Simon.. take a look at https://villages.cc .. It's actively being developed, now and in my local community, we have over 200 people using it.. Not much volume, yet, but we are having monthly local meetups to teach the software and network.. It's going very well. We has some great design & branding updates happening soon, so stay in sync. I would love to see it be interoperable with things like cyclos and ripple. Right now, focusing on the function of the site to encourage me engagement. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Giovanni P]

I don't know what is Cyclos 4 (a software that helps you issue community currencies?), but I'm trying to create a simple form of IOU/debt tracking system that could be used even by two people (so there's no need for a big community to make it useful) and you can start using it with people that haven't logged in yet -- if you expect them to sign up later.

It is a centralized system that publishes its transactions to the Stellar network (a modern-Ripple clone), so it can be made to integrate with the outer world through it later on, but for now it basically has only the Ripplepay functionalities -- not automatic debt cancellation, though, you must click a button to perform it when possible.

Here's it: https://debtmoney.xyz/ (follow the links there for more information, feedback is very welcomed).

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Daniel <humand...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Simon.. take a look at https://villages.cc .. It's actively being developed, now and in my local community, we have over 200 people using it.. Not much volume, yet, but we are having monthly local meetups to teach the software and network.. It's going very well. We has some great design & branding updates happening soon, so stay in sync. I would love to see it be interoperable with things like cyclos and ripple. Right now, focusing on the function of the site to encourage me engagement. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Gustav]

Hi @Giovanni

We have build a similar tool derived from the orginial ripple idea interacting with the ethereum test-net, would be happy to hear your thoughts.

Extend a test-trustline with me:

https://eur.test.trustlines.network/profile

https://github.com/trustlines-network

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[Giovanni P]

Is that going to be a smart contract everyone will be able to use for free?

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[Gustav]

Yes, the smart-contracts are already open-source.

[James Edwards]

Very cool. Going to dig into the whitepaper that you guys have published. I have been a big fan of Ripple since I first read Ryan's proposal back in 2006.

[Gustav]

@James, looking forward for you feedback.

Be aware the whitepaper is not set in stone, in fact certain aspects we describe is no longer up to date.

The repo is the best source to inspect the current status

https://github.com/trustlines-network