the trust dilemma

[Melvin Carvalho]

having started to use ripple I have the following dilemma

I trust a person, but maybe i dont trust their computer

e.g. I would not expect someone to defraud me, but they may get a virus etc. which uses my limit ... is there any way to solve this?

[Jeffrey Cliff]

> is there any way to solve this?

ideas:

1) Free software.  If we all work together, we can make sure that everyone is secure or no one is secure

2) Lack of monolithic software, or shared use of resources such that if one is compromised both are compromised anyway.

3) agreement with other people that if your friends computer is compromised you don't want to be held accountable.  This will be difficult with gateways...but not as difficult with people.

4) The fact that there's going to be a line of trusted people between you and the irresponsible party that the rest of us will be able to see and verify who has what money at the end of the day.

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[Jeffrey Cliff]

5) It ought to be possible, in principle to trust an account only if multiple people agree to spend from it.  I think bitcoin has multiple-key wallets, it should in principle be possible to do the same with a ripple account, though that hasn't been written yet to my knowledge.

[Jorge Timón]

I think there's not really any way around it.
Point 4 can help to investigate the incident though, for payments between people (as opposed to gateways which can be used to pay more people).
To protect yourself, the best thing you can do is give little trust to many people so if someone gets his keys compromised you don't lose that much.

You can help your ripple neighbors to use more secure software too. For example, using a gnu/linux operating system will probably more secure than using say windows. 

You can help them store their secret offline. If the keys are compromised, they can be changed using the secret.
Not sure if it's already on the client, but ripple has this recovery mechanism bitcoin lacks.

I'm not sure how updated this is, but here's the technical specification on how this feature is implemented:

https://ripple.com/wiki/Wallet_Encryption

Jorge Timón

http://freico.in/

[Jeffrey Cliff]

I wonder if it would make sense to have a higher level protocol on top of ripple/bitcoin that basically verifies that certain transactions took place.  Other transactions may be part of the broader consensus, but certain transactions would be the only ones seen as 'valid'. 

The goal here is that these transactions would be signed by your key.

Seems like a lot of work but the idea here is that you *could* put a step of trusting you in every activity in the network, which would solve this problem [ie if your friend asks you for permission to spend his money...not so that he can spend it but so that when it comes time to route through you that you accept the risk]. 

On 4 April 2013 20:07, David Schwartz <davidjoe...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you extend a limit to someone, you are trusting either that they'll comply with a redemption agreement you have with them or that any amounts they owe you will retain value. If you don't think either of these things are the case, you shouldn't allow them to owe you money. We're trying to find better language than "trust" because it isn't really whether you trust the person or not, it's whether you are willing to accept particular consequences of particular actions outside your control in exchange for specific benefits.

DS

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[Sepp Hasslberger]

For a better language than "trust" I would propose "fund". When you are funding someone, you know your money is on the line. 

Even though on Ripple, no money need normally change hands, the word "funding" would imply that you're ready to pay up of your friend fails to do so. 

So to make a transfer to somewhere, you wouldn't look for a chain of trust, but for a chain of funded accounts...

Sepp

[Thomas Sherlock]

But what does 'funding" imply?  Does it imply a temporary loan?  Or does it imply a permanent transfer of money?

For me it is the latter.

For me Ripple trust is more like an extension of credit or a loan, or a willingness to extend that credit, with the anticipation of the credit recipient eventually paying back that credit.

Should time be included in a Trust action?  So, Sara will trust Bob with 100 USD for the next three months.

I noticed that you can not remove a trust once it has been added.

Tom

[Tim Akinbo]

You can remove trust by setting it to zero. Also I find "line of credit" a more convenient term to use as trust can sometimes be very ambiguous.

Tim Akinbo

[Melvin Carvalho]

On 16 April 2013 12:59, Andrew Vorobyov <vora...@gmail.com> wrote:

credit make it short - credit line

Credit line sounds intuitive, but credit and trust are subtly different.  High correlations are implied.  It's a little bit like the term "overdraft" in the UK.

How about "extend credit"?