Telegram Bot.. any interest?

[Daniel]

Aloha trusted friends ;-)

I have been using Telegram, for a while now and really like it.. VERY fast, with great group features and wonderful privacy..

They just opened their API for bots.. many many bots are being made everyday, very trendy.. Been thinking a ripple bot and/or timebank bot would be great on this this network.. For invite only group private ledgers and public ledgers... Lots on people already using this app in places like Iran, too.. 

Got me thinking.. if I have a group of people who trust each other, and want to make sure the bot host is secure, multiple people run the bot, right? And invite new bots at any time to verify all the command history in the group.. Seems pretty basic, but very secure and decentralized, right?  Maybe the ledger could be timestamped on blockchain, too, periodically..

Would probably work on other ledgers, too, right? ie. blockchain with a client aggregator..

Anyway.. let me know if this project is motivating for you to work on :-)

Example of how this bot might work..

trust command would only be necessary if not in a private invite only group..

/trust @usera 10 hours + Wow! What an awesome programmer, so fast and efficient!

Bot reply: 
@usera trust level with you is 10 hours

/send @usera 2 hours for programming
Bot reply:
Your new balance is -2 Hours, @usera has 2 Hours

/balance @usera

Bot reply:
-1 Hour to @userb for help moving
+1 Hour from @userc for fixing my computer
+2 hours from @userd for programming
Total = 2 hours

/checkrating @usera 
Bot reply:
3 ratings, 1 -, 1 =, 1 +
@usera - he broke my computer
@userb = good guy, trust worthy 

@userc + Wow! What an awesome programmer, so fast and efficient!

/viewgraph
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[Giovanni P]

Despite the fact that is not decentralized in any way, since the whole scheme will rely on Telegram users' identities and Telegram chat history, it is a nice idea, but then comes other questions: why restrict this to Telegram bots? By making it work only in Telegram you're excluding potential people (a lot of them: me, for example, and all the people I know).

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[Melvin Carvalho]

Yes Yes Yes!!! :)

 

/viewgraph
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[Melvin Carvalho]

On 7 July 2015 at 02:12, Giovanni P <fia...@gmail.com> wrote:

Despite the fact that is not decentralized in any way, since the whole scheme will rely on Telegram users' identities and Telegram chat history, it is a nice idea, but then comes other questions: why restrict this to Telegram bots? By making it work only in Telegram you're excluding potential people (a lot of them: me, for example, and all the people I know).

Telegram is just the starting point.  It is a first class open source client (maybe server soon too -- remind you of anything ;))

[Dan Miller]

On 07/06/2015 08:20 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
> Telegram is just the starting point. It is a first class open source
> client (maybe server soon too -- remind you of anything ;))

All too well. We should have learned our lesson with "Ripple Labs" and
don't need to go through relying on promises from people with poor track
records again.

http://www.alexrad.me/discourse/a-264-attack-on-telegram-and-why-a-super-villain-doesnt-need-it-to-read-your-telegram-chats.html


https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure

https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram/issues/721

there are many more examples!

[Zecrets]

I thought the same thing too a few months ago...
That telegram could make a good base for a new ripple implementation.

Ben

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[Ryan Fugger]

Keeping track of IOUs on Telegram or even something like Twitter is an interesting idea that's been discussed before... But how do you do multihop transactions?

[Melvin Carvalho]

Great links, thanks!

Well sounds like we have a great opportunity to improve telegram with an overlay network.

We'll need an extended web of trust to do multi hop transactions, but I Think we just about have the tools for that.

Can start with a simple trustdavis style network and expand to full ripple.  Not sure on that one.

Id love to experiment further if there's interest ...

[Kurt Padilla]

Reminds me of Punk Money, which was an experiment that used Twitter to trade IOUs.

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[Daniel]

I'm glad to see that this forum is active again and there is interest in this project.. sorry if it is slightly off topic.. Yes, the idea of a twitter bot came up a while ago, which could also work (although twitter api is very strict).. IRC or a blockchain bot, for that matter.. I thought telegram because I have been using it, it is the fastest chat client I have ever used, free, hashtags in groups for ads, helpful community and it is already popular in places with censorship/capital control issues.. 

no reason that it needs to be only telegram, either.. could connect to twillio for sms, blockchain, IRC and twitter, too..

My original inspiration came from the telegram groups, which are invite only and members can invite new ones, in which case, i don't think multi-hop is necessary.. perfect simple ledger for small communities and business associations.

 although it might not be as scalable and this is a ripple email group, not LETS.. if transaction history is all very transparent, i don't know that multi-hop is even totally necessary.. at least in my small community, where we all know pretty much everyone else.. it is very useful.

What would prevent a centrally hosted bot from multi-hop, anyway? def more complex, though..

Any ideas/issues with multiple parties hosting the bot for verification? syncing, timestamping on the blockchain (factom)..

anyway.. I think it could be a very simple app that could be coded in a few days and could get a lot of movement, especially in Greece.. any skilled and motivated programmers? I am a novice but tinker with nodejs and PHP.. preferences in language? 

Go: https://github.com/Machiel/telegrambot

PHP: https://github.com/irazasyed/telegram-bot-sdk

NodeJS: https://github.com/crisbal/Node-Telegram-Bot

Ruby: https://github.com/ssut/telegram-rb

[Zecrets]

Telegram IOU bot?

....and one a year later....     This is all something I wanted to do even before mentioned here and I finally got around to toying with such.

There are many reasons why I think telegram chat bots are the way to go.  But more on that later.

So for now,  I have an experimental IOU bot system working on telegram. 

I want to clean it up and tweak the interface before making it too public.

 It's pretty functional as it is now though.  There is enough to see the potential.

Once the IOU bot is a bit more polished I'll make it more public and put it in the telegram bot store if it makes sense to do so.

After IOUs, I have in my design, plans for merchants to issue their own currencies/vouchers and issue coupons as well.

IOUs, vouchers, coupons and other such notes will be able to be marked as transferable upon creation so they can be bought/sold/traded between others.

I do have a multi-hop solution thought out, though I am not crazy about automatic intermediaries.

So, my planned solution would prompt an intermediary for acceptance to be the intermediary.

This is only practical, I think for 1-3 hops.   More then 3 intermediaries is not so practical if asking for approval. IMO

I'm programming this with my rural agriculture community in mind, so this will all work for my use cases.

But I'm sure it will work for others cases and especially help countries like Venezuela get back on track.

Let me know if there is still any interest here in such and we can start another thread here.

questions?

I could use feedback and suggestions soon as soon as I fix some of the obvious things I have on my bug/feature list.

Ben

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[Dan Miller]

I like the idea, it reminds me of Voucher Safe over XMPP.

While I'm excited to hear about your project, I'm personally not too
interested due to Telegram. I think when open options like XMPP or
Matrix exist (or maybe something p2p like ricochet), a system intended
to be inclusive should use them over the closed option. I know a lot of
this is a philosophical decision, and I am at least as hypocritical as
anyone else (sending this from a gmail account). I know the source for
Telegram's clients are open, but that isn't adequate for a client-server
messaging system. Yes, I'm aware villages.cc wasn't open-sourced for
quite a while either.

I am also concerned with Telegram's security decisions and their
deceptive stance and presentation of them. No cryptographer is even
interested in reviewing them anymore.

I feel like a curmudgeon just offering criticism when you are trying to
take needed action. I apologize for the negativity, I don't think
Telegram is a good option because of closed source and because of security.

However, I also realize it doesn't matter how ideal a system is if
nobody uses it, so telegram may be a good choice in that regard. And
also perhaps your IOUs will work over other transports.

Thanks for sharing your plans and for letting me be a naysayer.

[Zecrets]

Thanks for the feedback Dan,

I agree with most everything you say anyway.

This is not my ideal solution but it is fast, easy and more easy to adopt by the average joe as well as my target local community.

My ideal system would be an encrypted, redundant, distributed P2P  etc design  but if the perfect solution was so easy it would have been done long ago.  :)

Security is not the highest on my list because unlike bitcoin and cash crypto currencies,  why would someone want to steal an IOU between 2 others?

It really only has value between the 2 parties that agreed upon it.

The worst that could probably happen is someone find and hack there server where IOU data is located.  Then they'd see your IOUs credits and debits.

It's more likely your phone is lost or stolen and someone gets a hold of private information that way.

Also, Telegram is really not as bad as you make it out to be.

Once I have a user base and the concept proves itself, development can go in the direction that most of us on this list would believe is proper.  A migration towards

a better architecture solution could happen later if the concept proves itself.  

But for now,  functionally and conceptually what I'm working/betting on and as it stands should be VERY USABLE by all.

In the rural countryside or where agriculture is still practiced on a local scale, near everyone has a phone and knows how to send chat messages and can understand  the concept of "IOU 50 eggs or $50 USD.

But tell them you are selling 50 eggs and you accept bitcoins and products/services will never change hands.

Not having a physical, crypto or fiat currency should never be a barrier to do business.

We need to start somewhere  :)

Ben

[Daniel]

Yay! Please connect with me on telegram @allahhh I would love to beta test the mutual credit system you made.. and have a community of people ready, some of whom would be happy to beta test, as well.. 

Some people on this forum are working to integrate InterLedger Protocol with villages .. would be great if you were to add it as well to make credits interoperable with other ledgers..

Also, with telegram group bots, an invite only group makes a pretty functional trust network... User credit limit could grow based on a participation algorithm.. (a simple mutual credit system option)

PS. Dan, we know you have a telegram account, too.. lol.. sorry to out ya! hehe... I do hear your concern, though .. probably not hard to feed xmpp and twilio into the same bot, anyway

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[Adam Wascholl]

Hello, everyone.  

My name is Adam, and I've been following this group for a few years now, though never responded.  A few friends and I tried to start an alternative currency in New Haven, CT about 6 years back, and we were big fans of Ripple ever since the original video put out by Ryan Fugger.  

I'm not a programmer at all, though I'm interested in the philosophy of money & value, and how it affects the way we interact with one another.  I also pay close attention to the front-end design and UX that most of these systems offer, and strongly believe making things simple for people is the best way to get others to adopt these new technologies.  Even with a simple concept like Time Banking, I've seen people not get involved because of the extra steps required to log their transactions, which is time consuming if you already have a busy life.

So, I'm always happy to lend my input if I can help support the work you guys are doing.

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[Daniel]

Aloha Adam! I lived in Orange, CT, growing up.. I'm now on Big Island, Hawaii.. nice to connect!

https://villages.cc is being actively developed, again. If you aren't already, hop on that platform for ripple style timebanking.. I recently created a video tutorial for getting setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRlt3wp8SZY

and here's a video I made to help understand the idea.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9w9Y9x3cgk

We are networking and 'launching' villages in my community. Let's connect and share experience! I'll send you a PM.

[Melvin Carvalho]

Resurrecting this old thread

Did anyone ever make a telegram group for ripple IOUs?

I have recently implemented a telegram bot that may be extended to this functionality

Would be interested if anyone had actually created this group and/or kept it going ...