cycling Lilac

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Charles F

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Aug 9, 2010, 5:19:30 PM8/9/10
to River Heights-Corydon-Osborne
I ride the section of Lilac between Corydon and Grosvenor many times a
week.
I am afraid parked cars are a fact of life on those blocks, because
there are apartments with no parking garages, stores and
restaurants. It would be very disruptive to eliminate any of the
parking.

Most people drive through there quite slowly, so it generally feels
fairly safe, although one does have to take some risks of a door
prize.
Maybe a 30 kph speed limit or other traffic calming would be helpful.

Regards
Charles

Anders Swanson

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Aug 11, 2010, 10:49:11 AM8/11/10
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I was thinking strictly south of Corydon. . .(Come to think of it, now I see what Gord meant by the 2 travel lanes!)

North of Lilac, by Zeid's/Green Scene/Bread and Circuses, etc.., there are two parking lanes and two travel lanes. 

I agree that removing parking may not bethe way to go and I think traffic calming is a good idea in the stretch.  I've personally witnessed numerous near-misses at the four way stop-sign at McMillan/Lilac. This is in part due to the wide travel lanes (people tend to go faster and be more likely to miss signs). 

This whole area would likely benefit from traffic calming. Ironically, cycling conditions could be improved by having less space on the road overall . . . If there is room for it, it would be nice to narrow both the travel and the parking lane, bump out the curbs to make for a shorter crossing for pedestrians and add extra width to the sidewalk (leaving more room for patios / walking side by side, etc... Then, put bicycle chevrons (sharrows) right down the middle of the lane. . A textured surface itself (like pavers instead of concrete) would help too. 

this is the same solution I proposed fopr the section of Grosvenor just east of Stafford, which was supposed to have some sort of imporvement but which, when I last checked, is getting nothing due to the same parking/travel lane constraints that exist in this section. 

I still think you could get in bike lanes (or a bike lane north bound and a sharrow southbound) on Lilac north and south of the commercial area if you remove some parking (and/or widen into the medians). The alternative is traffic calming here too. 

Cheers,
Anders




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Gord McGonigal

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Aug 20, 2010, 6:32:39 PM8/20/10
to River Heights-Corydon-Osborne
Thanks Anders. What sort of "near-misses at the four way stop-sign at
McMillan/Lilac" do you mean? (I think you meant Dorchester.) Are these
just because of cyclists not stopping?

I measured that part of Lilac again and came up with 46' for the total
width. I agree with Charles, the speeds are not high in that short
stretch, and I think that the travel lane could be reduced to 10'. I'm
not sure any further traffic calming is required.

I'm not sure what the standard allowance is for parking, but I see
that the new Harrow bulbouts are 9', so I'll assume they have been
properly sized.

So on Lilac, if the travel lanes were 10', then we would have room for
either a wide curb lane at 13' (my personal preference), or a 4' bike
lane plus 9' for parking.

I find it interesting that even Charles feels the pressure to ride too
close to the parked cars on Lilac.

I do agree that Lilac should at least appear on the cyclists map as a
preferred route. If you are going to/from south Pembina from/to the
Maryland bridge, Lilac/Ruskin is significantly more direct than
Harrow, plus it avoids the death-defying left turn from Pembina onto
Harrow (which is impossible during rush hour).

Gord
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Charles F <c_fea...@mts.net> wrote:
> > I ride the section of Lilac between Corydon and Grosvenor many times a
> > week.
> > I am afraid parked cars are a fact of life on those blocks, because
> > there are apartments with no parking garages,  stores and
> > restaurants.  It would be very disruptive to eliminate any of the
> > parking.
>
> > Most people drive through there quite slowly, so it generally feels
> > fairly safe, although one does have to take some risks of a door
> > prize.
> > Maybe a 30 kph speed limit or other traffic calming would be helpful.
>
> > Regards
> > Charles
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "River Heights-Corydon-Osborne" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rh...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Anders Swanson

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Aug 20, 2010, 7:45:54 PM8/20/10
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the near misses I was referring to all involve cars blowing the stop sign in one direction or another.  it may be due to the width of the travel lanes on Lilac (suggedsting to drivers that its safe to speed up, the haste with which people are using McMillan as an alternative to Corydon in the morning, or just circumstance, (wait a second, what's the constant here? maybe it's me!) . . . 

anyway, the fact remains that 4 way stops are another form of traffic calming, albeit a dangerous one that is impractical for all users, that should/could possibly replaced . . . 

ALSO
i'll check on the minimum width for a bike lane, but, unfortunatelty, I think it's 5 feet 

Anders


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Mark Cohoe

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Sep 10, 2010, 1:19:06 PM9/10/10
to River Heights-Corydon-Osborne
Hi,

My general experience on the section of Lilac between Corydon and
Grosvenor is that traffic is generally pretty slow (there may be
exceptions with people racing to catch the light). You could likely
argue for curb extensions at McMillan to improve pedestrian visiblity
at Lilac and McMillan, but beyond that there's not much to offer. If
money was to be spent here I'd rather see it go towards improvements
to the intersection at Kingsway and Wellington or Lilac and Grosvenor
(there's probably no space to do anything here other than curb
extensions).

Minimum width for a bike lane next to parking would be 5ft (although
they went slightly less on Grosvenor). As Gord suggested, wide curb
lanes might be the best solution here if anything was changed.

Mark

On Aug 20, 6:45 pm, Anders Swanson <andersswan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the near misses I was referring to all involve cars blowing the stop sign in
> one direction or another.  it may be due to the width of the travel lanes on
> Lilac (suggedsting to drivers that its safe to speed up, the haste with
> which people are using McMillan as an alternative to Corydon in the morning,
> or just circumstance, (wait a second, what's the constant here? maybe it's
> me!) . . .
>
> anyway, the fact remains that 4 way stops are another form of traffic
> calming, albeit a dangerous one that is impractical for all users, that
> should/could possibly replaced . . .
>
> ALSO
> i'll check on the minimum width for a bike lane, but, unfortunatelty, I
> think it's 5 feet
>
> Anders
>
> > rhcoc%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<rhcoc%252Buns...@googlegroups.com­>
> > >.
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rhcoc?hl=en.
>
> > --
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