Sail shape and mast rake

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Barrie Norman

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Jan 13, 2014, 3:30:53 AM1/13/14
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There has been a lot of discussion regarding sail shape and mast rake.

this is a very difficult subject to put into words, I have just shared a video from Normandy which shows 3 RG's one a Dragon Force all have a conventional Bermuda rig there is some very good footage of the sail shape both close hauled and down wind. studying the video may help people.

Also please continue to add constructive comments here about setting up.


Joanne Sharpe

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Jan 13, 2014, 3:06:53 PM1/13/14
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Hi Barrie,

I'm probably being a bit blonde, but where can I find Le video s'il te plait?

Take care

Joanne

Joanne Sharpe

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Jan 13, 2014, 3:24:12 PM1/13/14
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Hi everyone,

As a noobie to RC sailing, I found a group of articles that have proved quite useful to me. They are written by a Marblehead skipper (and they say we sail half sized Marbleheads).

Sailing Hints ... http://www.stirling.saradioyachting.org.au/sailinghints.htm

I found all of them quite interesting, and particularly the one "Tuning Shroudless Rigs"

I hope you find this useful

Take care

Joanne

Barrie Norman

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Jan 14, 2014, 3:13:01 AM1/14/14
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Hi Joanne

If you follow the Facebook link at the top of the front page and click on the video picture it should take you into youtube.

Everything woks for me, don't know if you need a Facebook account to access but if you have seen the link as you have the name of the clip you should be able to access the video.

Regards

Barrie

Barrie Norman

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Jan 14, 2014, 3:25:02 AM1/14/14
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Just read through the link on setting up a shroudless rig, some very good information, what some beginners mis is the importance of setting up the rig and ensuring that the gap between the main luff and mast is constant, and you adjust the backstay to give a nice curve in body of the sail, this is most important with a single panel sail as used on the Dragon Force. a little time getting this right will make a big difference on the water. Then it is down to trial and error with small adjustments, only adjust one thing at a time so that you can reverse the adjustment if it doesn't work.

You are much better off going out with someone with another boat so that you can compare the performance and learn what effect certain adjustments have on the boat, this all takes time and patience but if you want to compete with the faster boats you need to put this time in and practice like any other sport, it has been said many times you can't buy experience.

Graham Cornford

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Jan 14, 2014, 5:42:51 AM1/14/14
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Barrie

Could you post the link here as not all of use us Face Book regularly. Thanks

Joanne

Looks like there will be a few more DF`s at Southport on Sunday:)

Graham

Joanne Sharpe

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Jan 14, 2014, 6:02:41 AM1/14/14
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That's a very interesting piece of video; thank you Barrie.

One of many lessons that I learn starts at about 3m40s in, when the Dragon Seems to be holding its own quite nicely coming away from the downwind mark and then stalls in a tack starting on the upwind leg - and loses about 10 boat lengths in so doing!!

The lesson I learn is that  as an inexperienced sailor, you'll get much much more from sailing skills (i.e., not stalling in a tack) than you'll ever get from an expensive boat or clever tweaks.

IMHO, not until you have your sailing skills honed can you think about getting a return out of one of the Carbon Dreams - but if someone wants to buy me an Argon** for my Birthday, I'll be soooo pleased with it, promise :)

Looking forward to see you at Southport Graham, and yes, hope we have a good 'gang' out - it'll be fun; it certainly was 2 weeks ago.

Take care

Joanne

** any carbon boat gratefully received LOL

Barrie Norman

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Jan 14, 2014, 11:13:40 AM1/14/14
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Graham Cornford

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Jan 14, 2014, 4:31:02 PM1/14/14
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Cheers Barrie:)

scary mike

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Jan 15, 2014, 12:55:02 PM1/15/14
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There certainly has been a lot said on sail shape etc, but one recent comment sums it all up get your boat handling right first, if you have a reasonable shape in the sails and you handle the boat well you will be hard to beat, think about how you are sailing the boat and make the best of what you have got, it is too easy to look at the sails and say his are setting better than mine, if you are watching someone elses boat then you are not sailing yours very well.
For what its worth my two pennyworth

tony...@elmclose.co.uk

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Jan 17, 2014, 12:46:42 PM1/17/14
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Dav

 Thank you for your reply re-setting up the mast rake. I am answering it in this topic as it will be found more easily by other. Originally posted in bottom of Dragon Mast Cracking 12 Jan.

I have been criticised for not getting my work checked by others. So here goes.

Setting Mast Rake

1. Place your Dragon centrally in the stand.

2. Place an 8mm strip under the bow end of the stand.  (This sets your boat level to the waterline. 0mm backstay hull screw bottom edge. 70mm top of bow deck just behind the rubber bumper)

3. Slacken off fore & back stays, main & jib luff & leech sheet tension, main & jib sail sheet tension.

4. Set the mast foot centrally using the bolt. (original position)

5. Mast should be vertically straight. The mast has 0deg rake. (initial position)

6. Tension backstay to take up slack.

7. Tension forestay until the gap between the mast and the main sail luff is equal.

8. Put a little downwards tension on the luffs of both sails to pull out any wrinkles.

9. Pull the bottom of the sails out until you can get two fingers between the sail and the boom.

10. Tension the leeches to achieve a slight curve.

11. Turn on your transmitter and receiver. With your rudder joystick central, set your rudder central.

12. Place your Dragon in the water.

13. Sail with the wind at 90 degrees and sails pulled fully in.

14. Sail your boat for 10 lengths and notice which direction your boat sails on its own.

15. If the boat turns into the wind (weather helm) move the foot of the mast backwards. If it turns away from the wind (lee helm) move the mast foot forwards. If it sails straight (Neutral helm) move the foot slightly backwards to put on a little weather helm.

 From your comments I have to assume everything referring to rake in the manual supplied with the boat is wrong.

 Tony

Joanne Sharpe

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Jan 17, 2014, 2:37:42 PM1/17/14
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Tony,

The suggestion that was made to you in the interests of your own business and newcomers to radio sailing was:

"You take some time to work out who the authority voices are in the RG65 community.

You ask these authority figures to 'Peer Review' your work before you publish anything."

Please note that Peer Review is not a process to be carried out in open forum so that some readers may grasp the wrong end of the stick.

As you also know, this advice was explicitly given as a constructive suggestion and not criticism.

This was an attempt to help you avoid publishing misleading information about radio sailing in general and the Dragon Force in particular and in so doing, avoid damaging your business and the sport.

I am in the learning curve myself, so I'll not leap to conclusions, but may I suggest to any readers of the above that they check it carefully against other, reliable sources before relying on it and please do NOT assume that "everything referring to mast rake in the manual supplied with the boat is wrong".

I hope this is of help to the radio sailing community at large

Take care

Joanne

David Foster

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Jan 17, 2014, 7:16:54 PM1/17/14
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Tony.

I don't want to sound like I am getting at you, or to start a public dispute, but I really cannot agree with several of the points you made in your message about setting up rigs and feel that they must be mentioned so that later readers can decide for themselves, rather than just take the points as gospel.

1. I have to say that contrary to your final statement, I can find little wrong with the DF manual description of set up. If you set it up as they recommend, then you will have roughly a 40mm rake on the mast rather than the 0mm you recommend in point 5. If I was to be critical of the DF manual, it would be to say that I think it could have gone into a little more detail, but I do not disagree with what it does say.

2. You say to place the DF centrally in the stand. What do you mean? Do you mean 'centre of the overall length', 'centre of the waterline length', 'centre of effort' or 'centre of gravity'? All are different, but not actually relevant to the set up process.

3. In point 2, you claim that putting an 8mm packing under the the bow end of the stand sets the boat level to the waterline then give dimensions to establish the waterline. Where do these dimensions come from? The waterline can vary substantially from boat to boat depending on what battery you use and where it is located. A 48gram LiFe pack positioned alongside the keel box, under the forward access hatch results in a very different waterline when compared to a 5 cell AA pack weighing 138 grams located under the middle of the main hatch in the default location (and yes, I do know someone with that arrangement!). The really relevant thing is not the relationship of mast rake to waterline, but mast rake to centre of effort. Set it up as recommended in the manual as a starting point, then subsequently adjust after sailing, if necessary, by following the procedure I recommended in my previous post.

4. In your point 4, you refer to setting the mast foot centrally with the sliding bolt. What DF mnaual describes as 'Mast sliding mount' does not adjust the foot of the mast. It adjust the mast position at deck height, which is different.

5. In points 6 & 7 you suggest taking up the slack on the backstay and then using the forestay to  bend the mast. In my (and I think most people's) opinion, this is the wrong way round. By pulling the mast forwards with the forestay you are moving the centre of effort forwards. You are actually levering the mast both at deck level and at the top. In models and full-size, the backstay is generally used to adjust the fullness of the mainsail (in conjunction with the luff and foot tensions - DF manual even suggests foot and luff tension changes for stronger winds).

6. I totally disagree with your point 7, where you say to bend the mast until it matches the curve on the luff of the mainsail. The whole point of the curve on the luff is to allow you to provide some shape and fullness to the sail. Because the rules require the sail to be a single panel, it is the only way to provide shape, whereas with multi-panelled sails, the panel seams are varied to provide shape. If you bend the mast to match the round on the luff, you might just as well have cut the luff straight and left the mast straight. What you want is for the sail to set with the round on the luff taken up by the wind filling the sail, with a little help in backstay tension to adjust it to match the mast bend. In general, you need only light backstay tension to achieve this once the wind on the sail has taken up some of it. Note that the backstay, luff and foot tensions will need adjusting to suit different wind strengths.

7. In your point 9 you talk about 2 fingers between the booms and the sail feet. That is fine as a starting point perhaps (though I would have thought too slack for the jib), but this will need varying according to wind strength, as mentioned in DF manual.

8. In 13  you say to pull the sails fully in, then sail a course at 90.degrees to the wind (a reach). Why would you want to trim the sails for a beat, then send it off on a reach?

9. In point 15 you say that if the boat turns into the wind when you do the above, you need to move the foot of the mast backwards. This is incorrect on two counts. I would be seriously worried if the boat did not turn rather rapidly into the wind when sailed on a reach with sails trimmed for a beat. Secondly, even if this was correct, you would need to adjust the rake by moving the deck level support back, not the foot of the mast. What you actually need to do is sheet the sails in and then set the boat on a beat (roughly 40 degrees off the wind, not 90). Most people like a small amount of weather helm (tendency to turn into the wind), so only adjust if the boat is really pulling hard into wind. If it bears away from the wind (lee helm), then you will need to reduce the mast rake substantially until you have slight weather helm, as few people are really comfortable sailing with lee helm as the boat gets itself into more trouble in a gust, whereas with light weather helm, in a gust, it will tend to turn into wind and spill some wind.

David.
 

Barrie Norman

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Jan 18, 2014, 2:39:58 AM1/18/14
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Tony

I have just read through you set up procedure and the only comment that springs to mind, is if you are going to publish things like this then publish it on your own web site not here as you are totally misleading new comers, you obviously have no experience in Radio Yachting and if you are trying to make a name for yourself you have achieved that but not in the right way. the final comment about the mast rake in the manual being incorrect, well this was written by the rig designer who is one of the worlds top skippers in several classes of model yachting so I think I would go with his description.

If you can't add anything constructive to this forum then I think its time to leave, I have received several emails form members of the forum complaining about your attitude and comments, so I thought it was time I publicly commented on the forum, something I don't like doing but if you can't be constructive on this forum then I will remove you from it.  I would like you take on board what I have said and take the advice of others, learn to sail and set your boat up, stop trying to the authority on the Dragon Force, Leave that to the people who are, and enjoy the this forum and others and above all enjoy sailing.

Barrie Norman
Forum Administrator

Barrie Norman

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Jan 18, 2014, 4:09:46 AM1/18/14
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The original post by David Foster, which Tony is referring to: I have copied it and pasted it here as makes sense to keep the continuity of the discussion. in my opinion David has made a good point. and I can concur his description of the set up.

Tony complains once again that no-one says how to set the mast up. The reason for this is probably because there is no 'right way' to set up a mast. It is very much a matter of setting it up to suit you and the best way to do that is to 'plonk the mast where and how it seems right', hang the sails on, then go out and sail against a similar boat. See how you perform compared with the others, then look at the other boats and see what is differently set up, make what you think is the biggest change required, then go out and sail again. Keep doing that and you will soon see improvements, not only to the setup, but also to your sailing - A win - win situation! Don't forget that it is often equally as important to slacken things off as it is to tighten them. 

To set up the rake of the mast :-
1. Slacken forestay and jib halliard. 
2. Slacken backstay. 
3. Slacken sheets. There should now be no tension on the mast and it should be straight. 
4. Slacken the small socket screw at foot of Mast and move the top of the mast back or forward until it has the rake you are looking for, then tighten the socket screw. You should now have a straight mast, leaning forward or backward (ie. Raked) the way you want it. 
5. Tension the forestay just enough to take up the slack. 
6. Tension the backstay similarly. 

You now have a raked mast and can start to set up the sails. You can't finally set up the sails in your workshop, as the set of them changes according to the wind strength. Trying to just keep bending the mast with the backstay until the mast curve matches the curve on the luff isn't doing what is required. What is required is for the shape of the sail to be right when filled by the wind you are going to sail in. The shape will change as the wind changes, partly because the laterally unstayed mast will move laterally with the wind, changing the shape of the sail. It is always about compromises. So, there is no right /wrong way to set up a rig. It various according to the wind and to the way you like things. As an example, if the wind is too strong for the rig you are using, you will probably need to flatten the sails and free the leach to reduce the power of the sails. If you really don't feel happy in a strong wind you will probably set things up to free the leach a lot more than someone who is happier in such a wind. Both are right (for them). 

In my opinion, particularly with a small boat, it should never be necessary to put so much pressure on the rig that there is any danger of breakage in normal use.

Finally, I have a problem with the claim that "there are so many faults in manufacturing and quality". Basically, it is a toy, made by a toy manufacturer and sold at the price of a toy. The vast majority of people will have no problems. Yes, there may be one or two manufacturing failures, but the majority will happen to those who are pushing the boundaries or abusing it and out of the vast number sold, I suspect the number of failures has been very small. If you buy a Mini and then enter it in a Rally Championship, you wouldn't expect the warranty to cover it, would you. 

David 

tony...@elmclose.co.uk

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Jan 19, 2014, 1:23:14 PM1/19/14
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Dav.

Thanks for your comments. I won’t go into the reasoning for adding the 8mm strip to set the mast to the waterline other than it stems from p9 pic 1.

I have now worked out what is happening. The mast has already been set to the correct initial Rake by the designers. The mast is 90 deg to the deck and the deck slopes from the bow to the stern. There is no necessity to use a plumb line.

When you move the mast foot slider you are moving the whole rig not bending the mast to move the sail’s centre of effort. If you move the foot you would need to go back to the beginning of the setup and loosen all strings and start again.

Your point 6. Mast/sail gap. I have just fitted House Martins sails and it has a slightly curved luff. If I read you correctly, I should keep the mast straight and ignore the gap and let the sail overlap the mast.

I am using cord to tie the luff to the mast so will the recommended Matchstick method give sufficient movement to allow the sail to curve?

I assume I should initially put no downwards tension on the luff?

 

Point 8. Re checking balance – It should read Close hauled. I do not know how I got this wrong especially as Joanne sent me a link to Ben Morris’s article.

http://www.stirling.saradioyachting.org.au/Sailing_Hints/TuningShroudlessRigs.htm

 

Talking to others today led to comments that you can’t write instructions on how to set up your boat as everyone has different ideas. Another told me he had read the article in the Acquaint on setting up an IOM, got out his boat, followed the instructions and sailed a lot faster.

Somebody needs to write a similar article. I know from experience that it is very difficult as I have written an educational website for Design and Technology including its own forum and dedicated search engine.

 

So the answer is for me not to attempt and leave it up to others.

I am going to make my own sails and have asked my daughter to come up with a better Dragon that meets the sail number spec.

 

I will write something about the initial set up when I know how the mast/luff gap works.

 

The final comment will be

“Now you have an initial setup for your Dragon, it is time for the water. Go to a local club and they will help you into the black art of tuning. I recommend you choose a club that does not specialise in IOM. My first experience was very unpleasant .“Go away, we are racing”. So I joined Watersmead, Aylesbury

David Foster

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Jan 19, 2014, 5:26:34 PM1/19/14
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Tony,

From your website and comments on here, I can see that you are a very particular person who likes things to be black & white and well documented. I can fully understand and appreciate this, as I like things to be well ordered (Though I am sure my family would be rolling around laughing if they were to read this!), but, as I think you are discovering, in the case of setting up a boat, it is not really possible to be so precise, if only because different people like different feels to their boats. Yes, you can start with an initial setup, but after that, it is down to you. As it happens, I think the DF manual suggestions are a good starting point.

I shall take your comments out of order.

Re. your final comment, I am sorry to hear you met with a hostile reception at the first club you went to. I am very lucky, as I am a member of 2 clubs (several of us are members of both), both of which sail/race IOMs and they could not have been more welcoming and helpful. The club I was sailing at today normally sail IOMs, but with the odd 'stranger' (such as RCLaser, or a DF) tagging along. I do have an old IOM that I bought a while back and am doing up but have never sailed. So far, only the fin and bulb are refurbished - so I sail the DF, except when one or other of them generously, not to mention, bravely, offers me their transmitter to have a race or two with their IOM!

Today, I get there and not an IOM to  be seen, but 4 DFs, 1 Laser and a scalish boat of about 1 metre length. The only thing missing was wind - hardly a breath initially, but it filled in a bit after a while. The other 3 DFs had the standard issue sails, whilst mine is equipped with Housemartin sails. All of us are still getting used to sailing the DF and learning its quirks, foibles, strengths and weakneses. We didn't race, as such, but all of us have a competitve streak and we were soon sailing round a simple course (trying to stay away from the calm, blanketed, part of the pond) and it was interesting to directly compare how we were doing, come in and make a tweak or two, then back out again.

What was also interesting was to compare how they were rigged. Two of us had the mast stepped towards the rear of the slot, the others in the middle. Quite a difference in the tension of the foot of the sails between us. Probably the one common feature was that none of us had much tension on the backstay and even less on the forestay. In the past a couple of us have swapped DFs and it was noticeable how different they felt and handled, though both were essentially the same and performed similarly.

Re. Mast/sail gap. Like you, I use very thin cord for the lacing of the mainsail luff to the mast. I merely made mine slack enough that the sail will just clear the mast when pulled away from the mast and that they were all the same. No, I didn't suggest that the mast should be left straight, with the sail overlapping it. Well, I didn't mean to, not as such. What I tried to convey was that I only tension the backstay enough to take up any remaining overlap AFTER the wind has taken up some of the overlap. I sheet the sail in, hold the boat as if it was beating to windward, at which point a percentage of the overlap will have disappeared as the wind fills it. Only then do I use the backstay to remove any remaining overlap. Note that this is a compromise, as the amount of tension will change according to th wind strength, and you have to set it for what you expect the wind to do at that point in time. With Housemartin sails, I have only enough tension on the luff to take out any 'rippling' (for lack of a better description!), as the sail material is stiff enough for the sail luff to largely remain straight.

Because of the convenient size of the RG65s, I think many people leave them fully rigged. I do, but always release the tension on the rigging when I finish sailing for 2 reasons. Firstly, it removes any strain on the boat, or danger of things changing shape, or taking on a permanent set, but secondly it means that I have to set the boat up again the next time I sail, to suit the prevailing conditions.

You comment on an article on setting up an IOM. I think the problem with many articles is that they say "Set the backstay tension to 1/2 kg, adjust the foot to 2 fingers gap" etc. There is then a tendency for people merely to do what it says, instead of learning why they are actually doing it. Far better to learn the reasons for doing things. You can then apply it to any type of yacht. The strings and wires to do so might be very different, but if you know what you are trying to achieve, you will soon sort out which strings to pull!

David.

tony...@elmclose.co.uk

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Mar 2, 2014, 12:53:53 PM3/2/14
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David

Learning how to set the sails but I have come up against a problem.

To correct weather/lee helm you can move the mast foot forwards/backwards.
To reduce weather helm my instinct is the move the mast backwards to bring the centre of effort of the sails nearer to the boats point of rotation so reducing the turning moment. Reading elsewhere, this is wrong.

I tried moving the mast foot forwards 3mm to its max and rearwards 3mm. This did not seem to help but it was very windy.
I thought moving the mast foot only moved the complete mast 6mm. This is appears not true as the bottom of the mast stub is fixed, whilst the sliding mast foot moves 6mm, the top of the mast moves through 150mm.
Does the mast foot central position give the correct mast rake?

Below are the approx mast top alignment from the vertical and rake for mast foot positions. Boat set to the waterline.
Forwards 3mm     15mm 1.0deg
              2mm     30mm  1.9deg
              1mm     55mm  3.5deg
Centre     0mm    80mm   5.0deg
               1mm  105mm   6.6deg
               2mm  130mm   8.2deg
Rear        3mm  165mm  10.2deg

Sorry for being too analytical.

Tony




Joanne Sharpe

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Mar 2, 2014, 3:33:34 PM3/2/14
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Hi Tony,

Setting up the boat and moving the mast (or anything else for that matter) is, as I understand it, a question of the relationship between the centre of effort (moveable) and the centre of lateral resistance (the boat's fulcrum which is effectively fixed). If the centre of effort is behind the centre of lateral resistance, there will be a degree of weather helm (the stern of the boat is pushed to leeward behind the balance point, rotating the bow up to weather.

But we have more to consider than  just mast position / rake / bend. As we change the shape of the sails, the centre of effort can and often does move. The slot between the jib and main also has a big bearing on where the power is produced in the sails' system.  The lift produced by the fins is also an influence on boat direction and control and as I'm  sure you're aware, this is proportional to the square of speed, so boat speed itself is a big influence (a slow boat goes sideways).

As skippers we can also influence the 'screwing up' with weather helm by, for example, slackening the sheets and bearing off a little during a gust.

A wise member of our club takes the trouble to do a bit of mentoring for yours truly and has made the point quite strongly that to set a boat up, you need to do it initially in moderate conditions and then fine tune to meet changing conditions - who am I to argue? What I am starting to discover is that once you've got your Dragon Force sailing nicely in moderate conditions, you start to acquire a feel and an eye for what's right for your boat - and it works; you can cope with varying conditions much more fluently.

As I've said to you before in a private email, it seems to me that setting up a boat, then managing the tactics of a race are much more akin to chess than snakes and ladders. There isn't a simple tick list or menu; and to me that's a most attractive feature of sailing at any scale.

Now for your revalation about mast rake and mast step position. I think I wrote to you about this (I suggested a simple experiment) a few weeks ago. Just put a suitable dowel in the mast step, free off the sliding plate and move it back and forth to see what happens to the top of the mast. By the way, the same applies to the forward mast position for swing rigs in case anyone was wondering.

My final thought for now is ... are you getting feedback from your clubmates? I find the radio sailing fraternity to be most generous with tips and hints; not overpowering or prescriptive, just plain helpful. I think that we do ourselves and the sport a great service by staying open minded and listening to what's said.

I hope that's of some help. When will we see you 'at the pond'?

Take care

Joanne




David Foster

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Mar 2, 2014, 4:41:28 PM3/2/14
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Hi Tony.

I think Joanne has just about said it all in her reply.

The important thing is to make sure that both sails are set properly and providing a balanced drive before you go changing the mast rake. Start with the mast set with the adjuster in the middle, then adjust the sails so they seem to be giving the best performance. Once you have got the sails set properly, if you find you have too much weather helm (the boat is trying to pull hard into the wind), then slacken off the back stay and rake the mast forward a little (only a small amount), adjust the forestay and jib luff tension, then retension the backstay, optimise the sails once more and see how the balance is. Repeat as  necessary. Do the same, but slackening the forestay & jib, then moving the mast back if you had lee helm.

The reason for moving the rig forwards to reduce weather helm is so that you move the centre of effort forwards in relation to the centre of lateral resistance. This is one of the reasons why it is important to have the sails set up properly first - if your jib isn't providing its fair share of drive, the centre of effort will be too far back and you will have a lot of weather helm.
 From your description, it sounds a little like you haven't got your sails set in a balanced fashion if you can't eliminate weather helm with the mast raked right forwards.

David

tony...@elmclose.co.uk

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Mar 2, 2014, 5:38:18 PM3/2/14
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Thanks for the info.

I only have an A rig. Other Dragons and rg65's were down to B rigs today, perhaps not the best day to judge sail setting/weather helm, but good experience in letting out the sail in gusts to reduce healing.

Tony

Joanne Sharpe

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Mar 2, 2014, 5:57:50 PM3/2/14
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Hi Tony,

I don't know how the weather was for you in the tropics of Aylesbury, but at Southport today we went through the card of rigs ... A to B to C.

It sounds as if you may have been overpowered with the A Rig. Two signs of being overpowered I believe are:

  • Difficulty getting the bow of the boat through the tack (stalled tacks / blows back to the original tack)
  • Nose diving on a downwind run
    (Last week I saw a Lintel IOM get its rudder totally out of the water going downwind !! It was like a dart in the water - that's well overpowered)

This leads on to another factor of weather helm that I didn't mention earlier - heeling. When the boat heels (any boat) the shape of the hull on the waterline changes and can take on an asymmetrical form that steers the boat. When heeling is excessive, so is the steering. Added to that is the fact that the fins are no longer vertical and therefore the lifting effect that they generate is in a different plane.

Get some more rigs, then you too can enjoy the added pleasure of panic changes, only to see the wind change again LOL.

Take care

Joanne

Barrie Norman

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Mar 3, 2014, 11:14:38 AM3/3/14
to rg-6...@googlegroups.com
Tony

Adjusting the mast rake in windy conditions isn't the way to get the boat set up. You need to start with a well balanced boat! set the rake in about a constant 5mph wind, so that the boat sails straight hands off. if you are sailing in condition near the max for the rig or above it, slacken the kicker off to give more twist and adjust the jib up-haul to de-power the rig, this will help with weather helm when beating but you will still get the boat nose diving down wind.

You need to take things one step at a time, altering to many things just gets you in mess, once I have the boat centre of effort worked out to sail hands off as described above, I don't alter it, it may change for different rigs but that can be marked on the hull for when you change rigs, then just alter the sail twist to match the conditions, you will see the top skippers constantly checking the sail shape and adjusting, you need to learn what effect the sail shape has on different conditions. As stated many times before this is a very difficult subject to document and each skipper will have slightly different ideas and methods, you are sailing a RC model not sat on the deck so things are very different.

As Joanne has said you need all three rigs to sail all year round as the weather is very unpredictable.

Happy sailing

Barrie
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