The Spirit

[Betty]

For some time the Spirit has been showing me things in Scripture regarding His disappointment in us. Tonight, as I read before turning in, He urged me to share these.

Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save, nor is His ear too dull to hear.

But your iniquities have separated you from your God;

your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.

For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt.

Your lips have spoken lies, and your tongue mutters wicked things.

No one calls for justice; no one pleads his case with integrity.

They rely on empty arguments and speak lies; 

they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.

They hatch the eggs of vipers and spin a spider's web.

Whoever eats their eggs will die, and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.

Their cobwebs are useless for clothing; 

they cannot cover themselves with what they make.

Their deeds are evil deeds, and acts of violence are in their hands.

Their feet rush to sin; they are swift to shed innocent blood.

Their thoughts are evil thoughts; ruin and destruction mark their ways.

The way of peace they do not know; there is no justice in their paths.

They have turned from them into crooked roads;

no one who walks in them will know peace.

So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us.

We look for light, but all is darkness;

for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.

Like the blind we grope along the wall, feeling our way like men without eyes.

At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;

among the strong we are like the dead.

We all growl like bears; we moan mournfully like doves.

We look for justice, but find none; for deliverance, but it is far away.

For our offenses are many in Your sight, and our sins testify against us.

Our offenses are ever with us, and we acknowledge our iniquities;

rebellion and treachery against the Lord, turning our backs on our God,

fomenting oppression and revolt, uttering lies our hearts have conceived.

So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance;

truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter.

Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.

Isaiah 59:1-15

[Dawn Eden]

Hi Betty
 
I do not believe this part of the scripture is for believers.  The context is to those before Christ came. If you look at verses 20 and 21 it puts it into the right context.   We have been set free from sin.. we cannot save ourselves ever.  For me I am sure the Lord is showing me that those who he will not know.. at the end are those who make him to be a hard taskmaster and also try to earn their salvation. Sin was so bad Jesus died so how can we add to that unless we make it a lighter matter.  A good preacher is a messianic Jew amazing testimony he was studying to be a rabbi.. very intellectual and he read the word and found Jesus was the Messiah.. he then went onto give a speech that was usual with the rabbis and he told them who are we kidding.. I think Jesus is the Messiah.. He truly loves God...   He speaks of Forgiveness and Overcoming sin.. and lots more... all free online... www.livinggodministries.net .   God Bless

The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20.27
 

---

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700
From: bbaker...@gmail.com
To: revival...@googlegroups.com
Subject: The Spirit

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[Betty]

Hi Awaken,

Yes, Yeshuah is the Messiah. No, we cannot save ourselves. We completely agree on those areas. I agree, as well, that called Messianic Jews make excellent preachers. 

However, what you appear to be suggesting is that because He freed us, our sins do not matter or that we are not still sinning? If so, what would you say is the purpose of such Scriptures as John 15:1-6 or Romans 6:12-13? The Lord was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He allowed for the possibility that they might sin to the point of abandoning their relationship with Him. In Romans, Paul admonishes us not to allow sin to rule over us. What would be the point if our sins were not an issue?

The Scriptures apply because we are still sinning and are seriously guilty in His eyes. In fact, many of the nation-ending sins of the ancient Israelites are sins tolerated by current day Christians. They sacrificed their children to Molech. We sacrifice ours to convenience, wealth, appearance, and lifestyle -- to name a few. They strictly adhered to the letter of the law, but ignored its intent. We do exactly the same thing. We have become modern day Pharisees with our love for ritual and tradition over the Spirit. They worshiped other gods. We worship the gods of convenience and the "American Dream" or prosperity among others. Even worse we disrespect the cross by acting like our sins are of little or no consequence because we have access to forgiveness through the shedding of Christ's blood. Yet, Romans 11:19-21 tells us that we should be careful not to think more of our freedom than we should. 

We are not above reproach nor has God changed. He is still Holy. The freedom we have is from being bound by sin if we are attempting to refrain from sin through the help of the Spirit and from the punishment of sin if, again, we are by the Spirit attempting live sinless. It is not freedom to sin then seek forgiveness intending to sin again. Nor is it freedom to continue in sin, but consider those sins irrelevant because of His shed blood. We are to be holy because He is Holy. Christ, Himself, said, "IF you love Me, you will obey Me." (John 14:15) Again, what would be the point if sin were not an issue?

Certainly we can live more sinless lives in the Spirit, but we haven't ceased to sin. Neither is His word firm in the mouths of every believer so that it never departs from them. So, 20 and 21 apply to a time that is as yet unfulfilled. But we are as guilty and as blind to our guilt as ancient Israel, because we do not recognize our sin or identify with the need to turn from it. Which is why, I believe, the Spirit keeps leading me to such Scriptures as this from Isaiah. (No, it is not the first time, though, it may be the first I've posted.)

These and other pertinent issues are the ones the Spirit has had me writing extensively about for some time in the book I hope to publish in the next few months. It started out to be a collection of poetry, songs, prayers, and praise; but God had other ideas. Now it is also full of things like "Disrespecting the Cross". If you haven't read that piece, you should. Not because I wrote it, but because it was written in the Spirit. I posted it on this site. So, you should be able to access it.

Please understand that I do not write this way to be offensive, but because I know it is the Spirit who leads me. I didn't pick that piece of Scripture. He did. You are right to believe we cannot work our way to salvation, but we do prove ourselves subject to Him by obedience. In other words, salvation by faith proven out by obedience. This idea that we are free to sin because of His sacrifice is not Scriptural. Indeed many who kill the children believe themselves saved by similar logic.

If I have misunderstood your argument, please clarify. Otherwise, I'll stand on what I've said. I think it absolutely correct.

In Him,

Betty

[Fifi Alexander]

I agree with you sister. If we are living in sin, then our prayers for revival are pointless and will not be regarded by God. I do believe that we repent of what we know to be sin, but there things in the our hearts that we do not know about, but by continuing to pray and seek the Lord's face He will reveal them to us.

I know the church in general is living in grievious sins but I hope those  who are praying for revival are not.

 

This is a link to the "Shantung Revival" which will explain what takes place when people of God pray.

 

Hope you find it a blessing.

 

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=652

 

God bless

 

 

[Joan Mooring]

Thank you Fifi and Betty. Oh how these two go together.

Made for His pleasure
Joan

---

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:46:54 -0700
From: fifia...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: The Spirit
To: revival...@googlegroups.com

[Dawn Eden]

 

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Betty
Sent: ‎15‎ ‎March‎ ‎2013 ‎18‎:‎24
To: revival...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Spirit

 

Hi Awaken,

Yes, Yeshuah is the Messiah. No, we cannot save ourselves. We completely agree on those areas. I agree, as well, that called Messianic Jews make excellent preachers. 

However, what you appear to be suggesting is that because He freed us, our sins do not matter or that we are not still sinning? If so, what would you say is the purpose of such Scriptures as John 15:1-6 or Romans 6:12-13? The Lord was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He allowed for the possibility that they might sin to the point of abandoning their relationship with Him. In Romans, Paul admonishes us not to allow sin to rule over us. What would be the point if our sins were not an issue?

The Scriptures apply because we are still sinning and are seriously guilty in His eyes. In fact, many of the nation-ending sins of the ancient Israelites are sins tolerated by current day Christians. They sacrificed their children to Molech. We sacrifice ours to convenience, wealth, appearance, and lifestyle -- to name a few. They strictly adhered to the letter of the law, but ignored its intent. We do exactly the same thing. We have become modern day Pharisees with our love for ritual and tradition over the Spirit. They worshiped other gods. We worship the gods of convenience and the "American Dream" or prosperity among others. Even worse we disrespect the cross by acting like our sins are of little or no consequence because we have access to forgiveness through the shedding of Christ's blood. Yet, Romans 11:19-21 tells us that we should be careful not to think more of our freedom than we should. 

We are not above reproach nor has God changed. He is still Holy. The freedom we have is from being bound by sin if we are attempting to refrain from sin through the help of the Spirit and from the punishment of sin if, again, we are by the Spirit attempting live sinless. It is not freedom to sin then seek forgiveness intending to sin again. Nor is it freedom to continue in sin, but consider those sins irrelevant because of His shed blood. We are to be holy because He is Holy. Christ, Himself, said, "IF you love Me, you will obey Me." (John 14:15) Again, what would be the point if sin were not an issue?

Certainly we can live more sinless lives in the Spirit, but we haven't ceased to sin. Neither is His word firm in the mouths of every believer so that it never departs from them. So, 20 and 21 apply to a time that is as yet unfulfilled. But we are as guilty and as blind to our guilt as ancient Israel, because we do not recognize our sin or identify with the need to turn from it. Which is why, I believe, the Spirit keeps leading me to such Scriptures as this from Isaiah. (No, it is not the first time, though, it may be the first I've posted.)

These and other pertinent issues are the ones the Spirit has had me writing extensively about for some time in the book I hope to publish in the next few months. It started out to be a collection of poetry, songs, prayers, and praise; but God had other ideas. Now it is also full of things like "Disrespecting the Cross". If you haven't read that piece, you should. Not because I wrote it, but because it was written in the Spirit. I posted it on this site. So, you should be able to access it.

Please understand that I do not write this way to be offensive, but because I know it is the Spirit who leads me. I didn't pick that piece of Scripture. He did. You are right to believe we cannot work our way to salvation, but we do prove ourselves subject to Him by obedience. In other words, salvation by faith proven out by obedience. This idea that we are free to sin because of His sacrifice is not Scriptural. Indeed many who kill the children believe themselves saved by similar logic.

If I have misunderstood your argument, please clarify. Otherwise, I'll stand on what I've said. I think it absolutely correct.

In Him,

Betty

On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:06:24 PM UTC-5, Awaken wrote:

Hi Betty
 
I do not believe this part of the scripture is for believers.  The context is to those before Christ came. If you look at verses 20 and 21 it puts it into the right context.   We have been set free from sin.. we cannot save ourselves ever.  For me I am sure the Lord is showing me that those who he will not know.. at the end are those who make him to be a hard taskmaster and also try to earn their salvation. Sin was so bad Jesus died so how can we add to that unless we make it a lighter matter.  A good preacher is a messianic Jew amazing testimony he was studying to be a rabbi.. very intellectual and he read the word and found Jesus was the Messiah.. he then went onto give a speech that was usual with the rabbis and he told them who are we kidding.. I think Jesus is the Messiah.. He truly loves God...   He speaks of Forgiveness and Overcoming sin.. and lots more... all free online... www.livinggodministries.net .   God Bless

The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20.27
 

 

---

Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:17:06 -0700
From: bbaker...@gmail.com
To: revival...@googlegroups.com

[Dawn Eden]

 

Hi

 

I do not believe sin should be winked at, of course sin matters but also Jesus finishes the work he began us we cannot change ourselves or that would be a work of the flesh.  He died and took our sins and was raised so that we have his life now. The old man is dead to sin and self and alive in Christ which would show in how we live our lives.  Sin was so bad that he died to take our sins.   The shed blood of Jesus is so very powerful and for me to keep thinking about sin makes light of it to some extent rather than looking to the other side of the cross, the resurrection too.  Death and life.  I am sure the Lord wants us to trust in him completely in all we do.  I am seeing that the continually looking at sin keeps the church in sin.  The truth is we have been set free and should be looking upward.  I can do no good thing apart from Christ, so I do not want to wallow in my old self and keep looking at me.. I am dead to self.. and alive in Christ.   If I keep looking at my old nature then I will stay in it and not walk into the liberty and freedom that Christ purchased for me by his precious blood.    Jesus warns us not to sin that's true but also he shows us we must trust in him and be changed and led by the spirit.   Our own works and self righteousness have no standing with God.   So, I guess we need to know where does the law end and grace begin and how far does it go..  we cant be in both camps.  Jesus fulfilled the law and God writes his law in our hearts, we want to do right in his eyes.  www.livinggodministries.net has a great message on law and grace .. where does one end and the other begin.   Very anointed teaching and spot on truths. No license to sin that goes without saying.    We are to turn away from sin at all costs so I am not sure why I would want to keep digging and wondering what sins are in my life I am not aware of.  God is well able to bring it to light. I wish to walk in the light as he is in the light and in him there is not darkness at all.   Only a walk in the spirit brings life I know you agree.  

 

God Bless

Sent from Windows Mail

 

[tpw...@gmail.com]

Dawn,

For sure sister I am in agreement with you.  I think the question for those in 'hyper grace' is can they willfully sin while calling themselves born again.  I think the answer from the scriptures is a resounding no.  For if they are born again then a new nature controlled by the Holy Spirit is at work in them.

But I do agree that our focus should be on Christ and his work on the cross and not our sins.  Or looking for sin in us.  The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict of our sins.  When he does that.  We confess and be cleansed by Jesus and move on in the race.

My thoughts, dear sister.  Be blessed in Jesus.

Blaine

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G LTE exclusively from Sprint

[Dawn Eden]

Amen so true.  Be blessed too.   Dawn

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

[Betty]

Greetings Dear Sister,

Again, my reason for posting is that the Spirit keeps me in Scriptures just like this one from Isaiah. I would much rather be looking at other things. I actually prefer to focus on writing songs of praise and worship. He keeps me here, because this is where we are. What we really need to do is ask Him if we have something we need to repent from, rather than just dismissing even the idea. I'll use myself as an example.

I thought I was in good standing with Him, because I have worked for Him for years in the effort to save the children. But as I began to consider the destruction of this nation, I thought it pure folly not to at least ask. So, I began to seek Him on my own behalf. What He showed me was that I was not showing enough preference to the things He is concerned with. I wasn't writing or speaking like I had in the past, or sharing what He showed me with others as much. I thought I was fine. He revealed His great disappointment. Understand here, I wasn't inactive. I had just slacked off somewhat because of the effort and time it takes. I was already overwhelmed with other things -- important things, mind you -- just not where He was leading. Fact is, I grew weary trying to explain so difficult a message. The church is hard ground, because we are so convinced we cannot be guilty. Please understand, I am saying this of myself as well.

Like you, and many others, I thought the Spirit would convict me. He wasn't. So, I didn't think I was guilty. It was the same way before He called me to witness in 2001. I was against abortion, but not making many waves. I sought Him regarding what kind of work He would have me do and He revealed my guilt regarding abortion. I had not felt guilty before, but what He showed me regarding them broke me. He made it clear that I had not tried hard enough to stop their murders. Then He revealed that the entire church was also guilty and in grave danger for their lack of effort, as well.

Let me ask you this: If we do not seriously consider what is shared with us in the Spirit, how can we be convicted? When we sit in a service if we do not listen and consider where it might apply to us, how are we to be convicted? God uses ordinary people, but what comes out of them is anything but ordinary. However, if our ears are closed, because we do not even consider that what's being revealed might be for us; how can He reach us? Certainly, He can speak to us directly, but often it is from the mouths of those He has called. I am a called Witness. Now, you can argue that call, if you will, but I ask you, wouldn't it be better to ask? What if I'm right? Wouldn't you rather know? I urge you to consider that God often uses the lesser to shame the greater. Didn't Deborah say that she was called, because the men were not doing their job? Certainly I am the least of any who speak -- it's one of the reasons I often do not -- but He has chosen me. And I have offered what He has shown me to you and this group as He willed.

Indeed, God has been speaking to us, the body, for some time. We've just not been listening. We don't want to look at our sin, but not looking at it has allowed it to flourish among us. The church is the reason abortion has taken so many lives. We refused to fight against it. Had we stood together -- like we're willing to in order to save this nation -- it would not be the issue it is, taking 10's of thousands of lives. We have also stood by while God has been removed from our government and public lives. Again, we should have fought this together. We didn't and now we have a decidedly anti-Christian government. If we look around, we can easily see His wrath gathering around us. Yet, we often reject the message as not for us.

If we really want revival, we have to be willing to look at our sins -- take responsibility for them -- and renounce them. I challenge you to seek the Lord regarding anything He might have against you. What have you got to lose? If I'm right, it could bring revival into your life. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to apologize. 

We won't see wide-scale revival until we are willing to seriously look at the things that have brought His wrath against us. It isn't Islam that we should fear. It is Him. We preferred our wealth over Him and He is more than a little angry about it. (One of the primary factors driving abortion is wealth.) Worse, it is us He is angry with. It is our job to be His light in this present darkness. As a group, we didn't even realize our lights weren't shining. Think about it this way. Overall, the church ignored abortion. If you were completely lost, how would that affect your view first of God, then abortion? Wouldn't it seem like God did not care and like abortion was acceptable? In reality this is exactly how many perceive it.

I pray you consider these things prayerfully, sister. As I've said, I don't like this situation any more than you do, but I'm certain of where we stand. The devil does not send people out to save the children. The devil does not motivate us to speak of things God is concerned with. I'm not motivated by pride. I'm far too aware of my own faults and shortcomings. I'd really rather be writing songs. Nor am I looking to build a name for myself and the One I'm listening to is the same One who called and equipped me regarding the children. So, this isn't about me. It is about Him and what He is saying.

I pray He open your eyes and those of all others who read this to His glory.

In Him,

Betty

[Fifi Alexander]

 

God bless you sister Betty. May we have ears to hear and eyes to see.

 

 

From: Betty <bbaker...@gmail.com>
To: revival...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: The Spirit

Greetings Dear Sister,

Again, my reason for posting is that the Spirit keeps me in Scriptures just like this one from Isaiah. I would much rather be looking at other things. I actually prefer to focus on writing songs of praise and worship. He keeps me here, because this is where we are. What we really need to do is ask Him if we have something we need to repent from, rather than just dismissing even the idea. I'll use myself as an example.

I thought I was in good standing with Him, because I have worked for Him for years in the effort to save the children. But as I began to consider the destruction of this nation, I thought it pure folly not to at least ask. So, I began to seek Him on my own behalf. What He showed me was that I was not showing enough preference to the things He is concerned with. I wasn't writing or speaking like I had in the past, or sharing what He showed me with others as much. I thought I was fine. He revealed His great disappointment. Understand here, I wasn't inactive. I had just slacked off somewhat because of the effort and time it takes. I was already overwhelmed with other things -- important things, mind you -- just not where He was leading. Fact is, I grew weary trying to explain so difficult a message. The church is hard ground, because we are so convinced we cannot be guilty. Please understand, I am saying this of myself as well.

Like you, and many others, I thought the Spirit would convict me. He wasn't. So, I didn't think I was guilty. It was the same way before He called me to witness in 2001. I was against abortion, but not making many waves. I sought Him regarding what kind of work He would have me do and He revealed my guilt regarding abortion. I had not felt guilty before, but what He showed me regarding them broke me. He made it clear that I had not tried hard enough to stop their murders. Then He revealed that the entire church was also guilty and in grave danger for their lack of effort, as well.

Let me ask you this: If we do not seriously consider what is shared with us in the Spirit, how can we be convicted? When we sit in a service if we do not listen and consider where it might apply to us, how are we to be convicted? God uses ordinary people, but what comes out of them is anything but ordinary. However, if our ears are closed, because we do not even consider that what's being revealed might be for us; how can He reach us? Certainly, He can speak to us directly, but often it is from the mouths of those He has called. I am a called Witness. Now, you can argue that call, if you will, but I ask you, wouldn't it be better to ask? What if I'm right? Wouldn't you rather know? I urge you to consider that God often uses the lesser to shame the greater. Didn't Deborah say that she was called, because the men were not doing their job? Certainly I am the least of any who speak -- it's one of the reasons I often do not -- but He has chosen me. And I have offered what He has shown me to you and this group as He willed.

Indeed, God has been speaking to us, the body, for some time. We've just not been listening. We don't want to look at our sin, but not looking at it has allowed it to flourish among us. The church is the reason abortion has taken so many lives. We refused to fight against it. Had we stood together -- like we're willing to in order to save this nation -- it would not be the issue it is, taking 10's of thousands of lives. We have also stood by while God has been removed from our government and public lives. Again, we should have fought this together. We didn't and now we have a decidedly anti-Christian government. If we look around, we can easily see His wrath gathering around us. Yet, we often reject the message as not for us.

If we really want revival, we have to be willing to look at our sins -- take responsibility for them -- and renounce them. I challenge you to seek the Lord regarding anything He might have against you. What have you got to lose? If I'm right, it could bring revival into your life. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to apologize. 

We won't see wide-scale revival until we are willing to seriously look at the things that have brought His wrath against us. It isn't Islam that we should fear. It is Him. We preferred our wealth over Him and He is more than a little angry about it. (One of the primary factors driving abortion is wealth.) Worse, it is us He is angry with. It is our job to be His light in this present darkness. As a group, we didn't even realize our lights weren't shining. Think about it this way. Overall, the church ignored abortion. If you were completely lost, how would that affect your view first of God, then abortion? Wouldn't it seem like God did not care and like abortion was acceptable? In reality this is exactly how many perceive it.

I pray you consider these things prayerfully, sister. As I've said, I don't like this situation any more than you do, but I'm certain of where we stand. The devil does not send people out to save the children. The devil does not motivate us to speak of things God is concerned with. I'm not motivated by pride. I'm far too aware of my own faults and shortcomings. I'd really rather be writing songs. Nor am I looking to build a name for myself and the One I'm listening to is the same One who called and equipped me regarding the children. So, this isn't about me. It is about Him and what He is saying.

I pray He open your eyes and those of all others who read this to His glory.

In Him,

Betty

On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:38:03 PM UTC-5, Awaken wrote:

 

Hi

 

I do not believe sin should be winked at, of course sin matters but also Jesus finishes the work he began us we cannot change ourselves or that would be a work of the flesh.  He died and took our sins and was raised so that we have his life now. The old man is dead to sin and self and alive in Christ which would show in how we live our lives.  Sin was so bad that he died to take our sins.   The shed blood of Jesus is so very powerful and for me to keep thinking about sin makes light of it to some extent rather than looking to the other side of the cross, the resurrection too.  Death and life.  I am sure the Lord wants us to trust in him completely in all we do.  I am seeing that the continually looking at sin keeps the church in sin.  The truth is we have been set free and should be looking upward.  I can do no good thing apart from Christ, so I do not want to wallow in my old self and keep looking at me.. I am dead to self.. and alive in Christ.   If I keep looking at my old nature then I will stay in it and not walk into the liberty and freedom that Christ purchased for me by his precious blood.    Jesus warns us not to sin that's true but also he shows us we must trust in him and be changed and led by the spirit.   Our own works and self righteousness have no standing with God.   So, I guess we need to know where does the law end and grace begin and how far does it go..  we cant be in both camps.  Jesus fulfilled the law and God writes his law in our hearts, we want to do right in his eyes.  http://www.livinggodministries.net/ has a great message on law and grace .. where does one end and the other begin.   Very anointed teaching and spot on truths. No license to sin that goes without saying.    We are to turn away from sin at all costs so I am not sure why I would want to keep digging and wondering what sins are in my life I am not aware of.  God is well able to bring it to light. I wish to walk in the light as he is in the light and in him there is not darkness at all.   Only a walk in the spirit brings life I know you agree.  

 

God Bless

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Dawn Eden
Sent: 15 March 2013 20:46
To: revival...@ googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: The Spirit

 

 

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Betty
Sent: 15 March 2013 18:24
To: revival...@ googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Spirit

 

Hi Awaken,

Yes, Yeshuah is the Messiah. No, we cannot save ourselves. We completely agree on those areas. I agree, as well, that called Messianic Jews make excellent preachers. 

However, what you appear to be suggesting is that because He freed us, our sins do not matter or that we are not still sinning? If so, what would you say is the purpose of such Scriptures as John 15:1-6 or Romans 6:12-13? The Lord was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He allowed for the possibility that they might sin to the point of abandoning their relationship with Him. In Romans, Paul admonishes us not to allow sin to rule over us. What would be the point if our sins were not an issue?

The Scriptures apply because we are still sinning and are seriously guilty in His eyes. In fact, many of the nation-ending sins of the ancient Israelites are sins tolerated by current day Christians. They sacrificed their children to Molech. We sacrifice ours to convenience, wealth, appearance, and lifestyle -- to name a few. They strictly adhered to the letter of the law, but ignored its intent. We do exactly the same thing. We have become modern day Pharisees with our love for ritual and tradition over the Spirit. They worshiped other gods. We worship the gods of convenience and the "American Dream" or prosperity among others. Even worse we disrespect the cross by acting like our sins are of little or no consequence because we have access to forgiveness through the shedding of Christ's blood. Yet, Romans 11:19-21 tells us that we should be careful not to think more of our freedom than we should. 

We are not above reproach nor has God changed. He is still Holy. The freedom we have is from being bound by sin if we are attempting to refrain from sin through the help of the Spirit and from the punishment of sin if, again, we are by the Spirit attempting live sinless. It is not freedom to sin then seek forgiveness intending to sin again. Nor is it freedom to continue in sin, but consider those sins irrelevant because of His shed blood. We are to be holy because He is Holy. Christ, Himself, said, "IF you love Me, you will obey Me." (John 14:15) Again, what would be the point if sin were not an issue?

Certainly we can live more sinless lives in the Spirit, but we haven't ceased to sin. Neither is His word firm in the mouths of every believer so that it never departs from them. So, 20 and 21 apply to a time that is as yet unfulfilled. But we are as guilty and as blind to our guilt as ancient Israel, because we do not recognize our sin or identify with the need to turn from it. Which is why, I believe, the Spirit keeps leading me to such Scriptures as this from Isaiah. (No, it is not the first time, though, it may be the first I've posted.)

These and other pertinent issues are the ones the Spirit has had me writing extensively about for some time in the book I hope to publish in the next few months. It started out to be a collection of poetry, songs, prayers, and praise; but God had other ideas. Now it is also full of things like "Disrespecting the Cross". If you haven't read that piece, you should. Not because I wrote it, but because it was written in the Spirit. I posted it on this site. So, you should be able to access it.

Please understand that I do not write this way to be offensive, but because I know it is the Spirit who leads me. I didn't pick that piece of Scripture. He did. You are right to believe we cannot work our way to salvation, but we do prove ourselves subject to Him by obedience. In other words, salvation by faith proven out by obedience. This idea that we are free to sin because of His sacrifice is not Scriptural. Indeed many who kill the children believe themselves saved by similar logic.

If I have misunderstood your argument, please clarify. Otherwise, I'll stand on what I've said. I think it absolutely correct.

In Him,

Betty

On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:06:24 PM UTC-5, Awaken wrote:

Hi Betty
 
I do not believe this part of the scripture is for believers.  The context is to those before Christ came. If you look at verses 20 and 21 it puts it into the right context.   We have been set free from sin.. we cannot save ourselves ever.  For me I am sure the Lord is showing me that those who he will not know.. at the end are those who make him to be a hard taskmaster and also try to earn their salvation. Sin was so bad Jesus died so how can we add to that unless we make it a lighter matter.  A good preacher is a messianic Jew amazing testimony he was studying to be a rabbi.. very intellectual and he read the word and found Jesus was the Messiah.. he then went onto give a speech that was usual with the rabbis and he told them who are we kidding.. I think Jesus is the Messiah.. He truly loves God...   He speaks of Forgiveness and Overcoming sin.. and lots more... all free online... http://www.livinggodministries.net/ .   God Bless

The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20.27
 

[Dawn Eden]

Hi Betty

 

I am 57 this year and was saved at age 16 during my 20s I backslid and experienced some pretty bad things ie.  My first sons father was murdered and I went onto marry a serial adulterer who I divorced in 2002.  I have four children and have been a single parent most of their lives.  It has been hard apart from the Lord being so close. I have seen many wonderful things of God in my life.. healing and have prayed for some who were also healed because I know its not me but God that heals (not the Todd Bentley type of thing)    It has happened a few times as the Lord lead, in the right place at the right time.   I have also been blessed by the Lord in miraculous provision even with my electric being on when there was not funds on the meter.   I have had sweet times with the Lord and he has been there in my hour of need many times.   I was raised as a Jehovahs Witness although I came out of that when I was 16.   The Lord has allowed me to go through many trials to refine me and I am still going through some now.   I forgive freely as I do not like bitterness at all and because I have been forgiven so much.   The Lord bought me to a place some years ago when I thought I had conquered sin and would never do certain things that I was judging others about.  Then to my amazement I fell not ongoing not even more than one day but I felt wretched. I didn't like what I saw about myself and realised that in certain situations I could act in the wrong way displeasing God.. I cannot change myself.   I am very aware of sin, I now never think I am good and feel bad even if someone makes me get annoyed because of taking advantage of me.  The Lord bought me to the end of self and self effort of trying to be good, it will never work.   It is because of his mercy and his work in me that I can have his righteousness not my own.   Currently for the last two years I have had no fixed abode and about to be homeless again  The work situation here is bad especially if you are over 50.  I am at Uni and have been for two years with one of my daugthers with one more year to go.  My funding will not cover my rent.  One of the reasons I am doing the course is because I can then earn a better wage.  My kids never had a holiday with me, we never had the latest craze and I own no furniture at present.   But I do understand re the materialism give me give me attitude in the church...  The churches here are dead or follow the false gospel nothing balanced for some reason.     For me I always test many times if I am hearing from the Lord.  You probably do to.. have those times when you say is that you Lord or is it me... and he then goes on to confirm his word so many times.   I love those times of hearing his voice.      Not everyone is at the same stage in their walk some are being used of God more because they do not dwell in sin and are not materialistic and have a servants heart.. Gods love in their heart.   Some are doing their own works and think they are doing Gods.  Some do not want recognition some do.   God uses some quietly secretly in prayer.    So yes if I slip spiritually I am very sensitive and any bad thought would make me sick inside.   Not that I am perfect but to me it about pressing forward and upward as the word says.. leaving what is behind.  The Lord has shown me that I must stop trying to be perfect as it is impossible and to trust him to perfect his work in me.    The devil loves to accuse the breathren and keep them in fear or wondering if they are saved he had done that with me too... but the Lord bought me some verses from various places emails.. from my brother he hadn't a clue of what I was going through... then times square church daily reading... a sermon... so many things... to show me that his arm is not too short to save us and also that he has taken me out of the pit...   I have nothing in this world at all.. I don't own a thing and I do not have an earthly husband.. I dont have a job.. yet.  My father died in November..  which was a great loss to me... I do have four wonderful grown children and 5 grandchildren.   I do not care about what I don't have as I do have the Lord and his life in me what else do I need apart from being used of him.. that's all that matters.. to hear his voice.. and go forth in obedience to his call on my life.. all the trials can be used for good.. in that if others are going through the same I have been there and will know how they feel and what to do...   

 

I agree re the church many are like a social club devoid of the Spirit or into hype or dead nothing balanced.  A few here and there are preaching the truth in the UK and some are in dead churches longing for a true move of God.      The sin is not realising who we are in Christ and also lack of praying but saying that things are going to get worse. Here in the Uk there are Christian organisations who do go to government who are praying and who send out emails to get support against Ungodly things in this nation... Christian Concern is one..  and  others.   We should be vigilant in prayer crying literally in the Spirit for the Nation we are in... but this cannot be drummed up it has to be from time spent with the Lord.. and of the Spirit.. as you know.  Maybe your call is to do what you do where you are...  Many years ago when I was 20 a prophecy was given at church which said that dark clouds are gathering over this land and it would be handed over to foreigners.. that has come true.. in that false religion has also been bought in.. and that.. anything seems to go apart from Christianity... On a good note.. Christian concern has had some favourable results in answer to appeals and prayer..   Whatever we do it should bring the light to dispel the darkness it should breathe life and not death.    God bless you and thank you so much for replying.  

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Betty
Sent: ‎16‎ ‎March‎ ‎2013 ‎17‎:‎51
To: revival...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Spirit

 

Greetings Dear Sister,

Again, my reason for posting is that the Spirit keeps me in Scriptures just like this one from Isaiah. I would much rather be looking at other things. I actually prefer to focus on writing songs of praise and worship. He keeps me here, because this is where we are. What we really need to do is ask Him if we have something we need to repent from, rather than just dismissing even the idea. I'll use myself as an example.

I thought I was in good standing with Him, because I have worked for Him for years in the effort to save the children. But as I began to consider the destruction of this nation, I thought it pure folly not to at least ask. So, I began to seek Him on my own behalf. What He showed me was that I was not showing enough preference to the things He is concerned with. I wasn't writing or speaking like I had in the past, or sharing what He showed me with others as much. I thought I was fine. He revealed His great disappointment. Understand here, I wasn't inactive. I had just slacked off somewhat because of the effort and time it takes. I was already overwhelmed with other things -- important things, mind you -- just not where He was leading. Fact is, I grew weary trying to explain so difficult a message. The church is hard ground, because we are so convinced we cannot be guilty. Please understand, I am saying this of myself as well.

Like you, and many others, I thought the Spirit would convict me. He wasn't. So, I didn't think I was guilty. It was the same way before He called me to witness in 2001. I was against abortion, but not making many waves. I sought Him regarding what kind of work He would have me do and He revealed my guilt regarding abortion. I had not felt guilty before, but what He showed me regarding them broke me. He made it clear that I had not tried hard enough to stop their murders. Then He revealed that the entire church was also guilty and in grave danger for their lack of effort, as well.

Let me ask you this: If we do not seriously consider what is shared with us in the Spirit, how can we be convicted? When we sit in a service if we do not listen and consider where it might apply to us, how are we to be convicted? God uses ordinary people, but what comes out of them is anything but ordinary. However, if our ears are closed, because we do not even consider that what's being revealed might be for us; how can He reach us? Certainly, He can speak to us directly, but often it is from the mouths of those He has called. I am a called Witness. Now, you can argue that call, if you will, but I ask you, wouldn't it be better to ask? What if I'm right? Wouldn't you rather know? I urge you to consider that God often uses the lesser to shame the greater. Didn't Deborah say that she was called, because the men were not doing their job? Certainly I am the least of any who speak -- it's one of the reasons I often do not -- but He has chosen me. And I have offered what He has shown me to you and this group as He willed.

Indeed, God has been speaking to us, the body, for some time. We've just not been listening. We don't want to look at our sin, but not looking at it has allowed it to flourish among us. The church is the reason abortion has taken so many lives. We refused to fight against it. Had we stood together -- like we're willing to in order to save this nation -- it would not be the issue it is, taking 10's of thousands of lives. We have also stood by while God has been removed from our government and public lives. Again, we should have fought this together. We didn't and now we have a decidedly anti-Christian government. If we look around, we can easily see His wrath gathering around us. Yet, we often reject the message as not for us.

If we really want revival, we have to be willing to look at our sins -- take responsibility for them -- and renounce them. I challenge you to seek the Lord regarding anything He might have against you. What have you got to lose? If I'm right, it could bring revival into your life. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to apologize. 

We won't see wide-scale revival until we are willing to seriously look at the things that have brought His wrath against us. It isn't Islam that we should fear. It is Him. We preferred our wealth over Him and He is more than a little angry about it. (One of the primary factors driving abortion is wealth.) Worse, it is us He is angry with. It is our job to be His light in this present darkness. As a group, we didn't even realize our lights weren't shining. Think about it this way. Overall, the church ignored abortion. If you were completely lost, how would that affect your view first of God, then abortion? Wouldn't it seem like God did not care and like abortion was acceptable? In reality this is exactly how many perceive it.

I pray you consider these things prayerfully, sister. As I've said, I don't like this situation any more than you do, but I'm certain of where we stand. The devil does not send people out to save the children. The devil does not motivate us to speak of things God is concerned with. I'm not motivated by pride. I'm far too aware of my own faults and shortcomings. I'd really rather be writing songs. Nor am I looking to build a name for myself and the One I'm listening to is the same One who called and equipped me regarding the children. So, this isn't about me. It is about Him and what He is saying.

I pray He open your eyes and those of all others who read this to His glory.

In Him,

Betty

On Friday, March 15, 2013 7:38:03 PM UTC-5, Awaken wrote:

 

Hi

 

I do not believe sin should be winked at, of course sin matters but also Jesus finishes the work he began us we cannot change ourselves or that would be a work of the flesh.  He died and took our sins and was raised so that we have his life now. The old man is dead to sin and self and alive in Christ which would show in how we live our lives.  Sin was so bad that he died to take our sins.   The shed blood of Jesus is so very powerful and for me to keep thinking about sin makes light of it to some extent rather than looking to the other side of the cross, the resurrection too.  Death and life.  I am sure the Lord wants us to trust in him completely in all we do.  I am seeing that the continually looking at sin keeps the church in sin.  The truth is we have been set free and should be looking upward.  I can do no good thing apart from Christ, so I do not want to wallow in my old self and keep looking at me.. I am dead to self.. and alive in Christ.   If I keep looking at my old nature then I will stay in it and not walk into the liberty and freedom that Christ purchased for me by his precious blood.    Jesus warns us not to sin that's true but also he shows us we must trust in him and be changed and led by the spirit.   Our own works and self righteousness have no standing with God.   So, I guess we need to know where does the law end and grace begin and how far does it go..  we cant be in both camps.  Jesus fulfilled the law and God writes his law in our hearts, we want to do right in his eyes.  www.livinggodministries.net has a great message on law and grace .. where does one end and the other begin.   Very anointed teaching and spot on truths. No license to sin that goes without saying.    We are to turn away from sin at all costs so I am not sure why I would want to keep digging and wondering what sins are in my life I am not aware of.  God is well able to bring it to light. I wish to walk in the light as he is in the light and in him there is not darkness at all.   Only a walk in the spirit brings life I know you agree.  

 

God Bless

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Dawn Eden
Sent: 15 March 2013 20:46
To: revival...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: The Spirit

 

 

 

Sent from Windows Mail

 

From: Betty
Sent: 15 March 2013 18:24
To: revival...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Spirit

 

Hi Awaken,

Yes, Yeshuah is the Messiah. No, we cannot save ourselves. We completely agree on those areas. I agree, as well, that called Messianic Jews make excellent preachers. 

However, what you appear to be suggesting is that because He freed us, our sins do not matter or that we are not still sinning? If so, what would you say is the purpose of such Scriptures as John 15:1-6 or Romans 6:12-13? The Lord was speaking to His disciples. Yet, He allowed for the possibility that they might sin to the point of abandoning their relationship with Him. In Romans, Paul admonishes us not to allow sin to rule over us. What would be the point if our sins were not an issue?

The Scriptures apply because we are still sinning and are seriously guilty in His eyes. In fact, many of the nation-ending sins of the ancient Israelites are sins tolerated by current day Christians. They sacrificed their children to Molech. We sacrifice ours to convenience, wealth, appearance, and lifestyle -- to name a few. They strictly adhered to the letter of the law, but ignored its intent. We do exactly the same thing. We have become modern day Pharisees with our love for ritual and tradition over the Spirit. They worshiped other gods. We worship the gods of convenience and the "American Dream" or prosperity among others. Even worse we disrespect the cross by acting like our sins are of little or no consequence because we have access to forgiveness through the shedding of Christ's blood. Yet, Romans 11:19-21 tells us that we should be careful not to think more of our freedom than we should. 

We are not above reproach nor has God changed. He is still Holy. The freedom we have is from being bound by sin if we are attempting to refrain from sin through the help of the Spirit and from the punishment of sin if, again, we are by the Spirit attempting live sinless. It is not freedom to sin then seek forgiveness intending to sin again. Nor is it freedom to continue in sin, but consider those sins irrelevant because of His shed blood. We are to be holy because He is Holy. Christ, Himself, said, "IF you love Me, you will obey Me." (John 14:15) Again, what would be the point if sin were not an issue?

Certainly we can live more sinless lives in the Spirit, but we haven't ceased to sin. Neither is His word firm in the mouths of every believer so that it never departs from them. So, 20 and 21 apply to a time that is as yet unfulfilled. But we are as guilty and as blind to our guilt as ancient Israel, because we do not recognize our sin or identify with the need to turn from it. Which is why, I believe, the Spirit keeps leading me to such Scriptures as this from Isaiah. (No, it is not the first time, though, it may be the first I've posted.)

These and other pertinent issues are the ones the Spirit has had me writing extensively about for some time in the book I hope to publish in the next few months. It started out to be a collection of poetry, songs, prayers, and praise; but God had other ideas. Now it is also full of things like "Disrespecting the Cross". If you haven't read that piece, you should. Not because I wrote it, but because it was written in the Spirit. I posted it on this site. So, you should be able to access it.

Please understand that I do not write this way to be offensive, but because I know it is the Spirit who leads me. I didn't pick that piece of Scripture. He did. You are right to believe we cannot work our way to salvation, but we do prove ourselves subject to Him by obedience. In other words, salvation by faith proven out by obedience. This idea that we are free to sin because of His sacrifice is not Scriptural. Indeed many who kill the children believe themselves saved by similar logic.

If I have misunderstood your argument, please clarify. Otherwise, I'll stand on what I've said. I think it absolutely correct.

In Him,

Betty

On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:06:24 PM UTC-5, Awaken wrote:

Hi Betty
 
I do not believe this part of the scripture is for believers.  The context is to those before Christ came. If you look at verses 20 and 21 it puts it into the right context.   We have been set free from sin.. we cannot save ourselves ever.  For me I am sure the Lord is showing me that those who he will not know.. at the end are those who make him to be a hard taskmaster and also try to earn their salvation. Sin was so bad Jesus died so how can we add to that unless we make it a lighter matter.  A good preacher is a messianic Jew amazing testimony he was studying to be a rabbi.. very intellectual and he read the word and found Jesus was the Messiah.. he then went onto give a speech that was usual with the rabbis and he told them who are we kidding.. I think Jesus is the Messiah.. He truly loves God...   He speaks of Forgiveness and Overcoming sin.. and lots more... all free online... www.livinggodministries.net .   God Bless

The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20.27
 

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[app...@aol.com]

Praise the Lord Dawn..................bro Frank

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Eden <dawn...@live.com>

[Betty]

I am asking God for you, Dear Sister. You are right believing we share many similar experiences. I have had a difficult and, in many ways, tragic life myself, but God has blessed me mightily with His presence, provision, and deeply comforting love. 

I believe you need to come against this lack. The provision of God is for His children. Prosperity is not a myth. It's just been perverted by those seeking wealth. Our needs are meant to be met. This is for the obedient and not about opulence. In other words, you should not be homeless, because God is willing and able. Were I in your shoes, I would rebuke it and entreat God's provision. Indeed, I have been in your shoes. My family sought to put me and my teenage daughter out because I refused to give up my faith. I sought the Lord's provision and He made a place for us. Even my current husband has considered putting me out, because of my age -- although he knew full well from the time we met and professed a strong preference for an older wife. Again, I've prayed for him and the Lord rebuked him and continues to chasten him. Like your husband, I've had ample cause for divorce. I've stayed because God made it clear He wanted me to. He makes a way for me. It isn't wonderful, but it does allow me to continue to speak. So, God is able. I've seen many miraculous things, things most just cannot believe. Provision, like your electric, where there was absolutely no resource other than Him, as well as, healing, direction, the embrace of the Spirit, etc.

So, yes, we have much in common and, yes, I see where you are coming from. Our righteousness is not of ourselves. This is completely correct. However, the word I've had from Him is firm. He has confirmed it repeatedly, in multiple ways. We are guilty. It is us He is angry at. If I had anything from Him that made me think otherwise, I would have shut up long ago. It grieves me deeply to grieve the body so. I wanted to be gifted in healing. Instead, I am the bearer of exceedingly bad news. It breaks my heart. The only comfort I have is that I would rather make my brothers and sisters angry at me than know I was responsible for their punishment.

I've seen God's punishment in my life. It's a horrible thing. My first husband died from it. No one can defend oneself from it. My husband needed one pill. I had him at the hospital the night before he died and they wouldn't even give him that one pill. The pharmacy was closed. They had samples, but they wouldn't let him have one of those, either. We cannot stay God's hand, not by our own power. Our only hope is to repent and we will not repent until we recognize our guilt.

I'm not coming against you personally, sister. I am trying to reach as many as He will allow before it is too late. That hour draws near. After the 2008 election, I had a horrible prophetic dream. The first part of it has already come true. The last is in the wings. Thousands died. I sought the Lord for the interpretation and my fears were confirmed. I live with those images and ones of the children taken by abortion. I cannot bear the thought of being responsible for them.

I am going to pray the Lord provide for your needs. It grieves me to hear you are in such dire straights. Please let me know when you are provided for. Please be open to that provision.

With much love, your sister,

Betty

[Dawn Eden]

Thanks for your prayers Betty. God Bless you x